I disagree totally :-) In fact I find it a bit elitist to assume that simply because one has a small property and a modest budget, a professional landscape designer is not going to want to be bothered. Perhaps that may be the norm in laag's upscale neck of the woods but in my area, modestly sized properties owned by middle income clients are just as often dealt with by professionals as are large expansive, high end properties with massive budgets. In fact, the former is the bulk of my client base. You just need to find the right fit with a qualified designer and that is by no means impossible.

It's a pretty high learning curve to develop a successful design all by yourself - you can always go the design consultation route where a professional designer comes out to meet with you, examine the property and make suggestions for improvements with varying degrees of detail that you can pursue on your own. Alternately, you can find a designer to help you develop a detailed landscape plan that you can follow and implement on your own - that can be a huge money saver if you are willing and able to do the work yourself (or contract out only the most complex portions), as labor expense is the biggest cost in achieving a new landscape.

My point is that there are various routes to travel if you want or feel you need professional assistance and varying costs associated with them. This is an extremely diverse industry and various landscape professionals will offer very divergent services that can be extremely helpful. Check with local nurseries - many have referral services for landscape professionals - your local chapter of the APLD or perhaps marcinde can give you some names. It's all good :-))

Here is a link that might be useful: APLD - Virginia chapter

Regardless of what landscaping you do, I think there would be a whole lot less of a 'welcome to my garage' look if that big, white garage door was repainted a darker color - e.g. a brown or dark red that blends well with the brick. That big white expanse of garge door just forces you to look at it first.

Front yard:
If I were you, I would take a garden hose and lay it ont he ground to form the shape of a pleasing planting bed that extends the garden bed created by your neighbor to the right. Since both properties are close together, the front gardens could complement each other.

As soon as I would have achieved the desired effect, I would take out the grass in that front bed, add good garden soil, plant bushes and flowers appropriate to my area and to my willingness to tend to them and put down mulch. A good nursery should be helpful.

I would also leave room for a nice wide walkway from the driveway to the front door.

In the wet area on the left side of your house, I would probably grow grass immediately to prevent more run-off.

As to the color of the garage door, Sherwin Williams' website has a web feature where one can apply paint colors to houses. It's a great way to see various effects.

Laag, I've actually been really surprised lately- a lot more folks in my area see the value of hiring a designer than I've come to expect. I have a relatively young practice and I'm booked into December.

Sam, there are a number of options up your way. I've met some of the designers at Merrifield Garden Center, and they seem like a decent bunch. Also, Stadler Nursery is in Manassas, but they may go that far. Both nurseries have phenomenal plant material. The VA Society of Landscape Designers (VSLD.org) has some talented designers as well.

All that I am saying is that it generally takes several hours between talking to the prospect, meeting on site, discussing the project, and writing a proposal. That is a considerable investment in time - maybe 4 hours before having a contract. A lot of people will pre-qualify prospects before investing that time and will not do it if it seems unlikely that it will result in a job. The busier the designer, the more pre-qualifying they tend to do.

I'm not saying it is right or it is wrong. I'm just saying that it is.

Then if they get the job it is another drive out to the site and at least an hour or two to measure existing conditions and snap a few shots with a camera. Then it is back to the office to draw the existing conditions base plan. Unless it is a quick sketch plan whipped off, it takes several hours. Let's be conservative and say 10 hours minimum. What does a non-elitist designer charge er hour? If it is $25 per hour you are up to $250 and you have not met with the client to go over it and make revisions yet. If it is $50 per hour you are up to $500. A lot look for $75 - $100 per hour, so it might be as high as a grand and the job is still not done.

When someone is looking for website interactive designs and is looking to buy his own plants it tells me that we are watching our pennies closely. I have no problem with that as I do the same and have lots of projects around my home that I can not afford to have done. But, it also means that 9 times out of 10, a person like Sam or myself, is not going to buy his own plants and dig his own holes because he wants to dedicate that money saved to a designer. It is more likely that there is not a lot more money for the designer or anyone else, but that the budget is maxed.

I don't care what the rent district is, these things take the same amount of time whether the homeowner is rich or poor. That is a fact. When the budget is slim, the % of it going to design goes from 1-2% for an "elite" job of $50-$100k of built work to 10-20% or more on a $5k-$10k built job. The smaller the overall budget is, the higher the percentage of it goes to pay for that design time. The higher that percentage gets, the less affordable it is to the prospect whether he is rich or poor and the less likely a designer will be hired.

Anyone making a living designing learns this very quickly and you stop investing time where you won't get work. That is why there have been lots of posts from people complaining that designers don't call them back.

The most affordable designers are those that can make money by selling you their plants (a nursery designer) or by building your landscape (contractor/designer). If you are not going to hire a contractor and want to search out the best deals on plants, you either have to dupe either one of those type designers (who are just as likely to be good or not so good as any independent designer) because they won't get the sale, or you have to find an independent who probably won't pass you through the pre-qualifying. If he shows up, the proposal will likely be a bigger percentage of the budget than it is worth to you.

That is why I am saying that Sam is not easily going to hire a designer. I'm not saying that Sam is cheap. I'm not saying anyone is too good for his job. All I'm saying is that it is an unlikely match.

Well you don't have the traditional front yard, which depending on your lifestyle may be a good thing. Less expanse of lawn to mow, and a nice hard surface for kids to roller skate, draw with chalk nad bike on.

A driveway, like a lawn, is a trafficable space that also doesn't impede you physically or with the eye. As such, this empty space helps to counter and reflect the house behind it. But like a lawn the shape of this paved space can direct the eye to an destination.

If the walkway to the front door was more substantial, as Laag has mentioned, and visible, then it would carry the eye around the corner to the front door. Also the boxy shape of the driveway can be mitigated with additional hardscape. Another trick would be to let the asphalt natuarlly age to a more pleasing grey color by not sealing it every year.

laag- to expand on what I said, a lot of people who I don't think would have spent that significant portion of the budget on a design a few years ago, now are willing to. Even homeowners with "normal" budgets and lifestyles. It's got me happily baffled. I'm actually getting paid what I feel I'm worth, even on sub-$10K projects.

I guess I didn't read the original post as necessarily looking for an online designer as a way to save money, more just as a convenience thing. A lot of my Northern VA clients are involved with government, military, or companies servicing the government, and their schedules suck. It's not unusual for me to make the initial phone contact and have to set an appointment 45 days out, then once the design's done I have to set the next appointment over a month in advance as well. I've had people contact me and try to do the whole thing over email, but I'm not comfortable working that way. I guess some companies are, but I find it hard to learn my client that way.

Gotta love the internet- in the absence of information, we fill in the blanks ourselves, based on our own experiences.

Laag,
Amen brother. .
It's good to hear some straight shooting ,no bullshet talk that addresses the basic economics of practicing landscape design.

I'm curious to know , especially from Marcinde who says s/he is booked several months in advance what percentage of income is derived from a 10 thousand dollar project ?

Depends :)

I generally charge between $900 and $2,500 for Schematic Landscape Plans. That is a complete landscape shown on 24"x36" black line sheet(s) of paper, usually at 1"=10'. It shows trees, shrubs (names, quantities, & sizes), walls, walks, pools, spas, sheds, fences, driveways, pergolas and about anything else you can get into a plan view. Annuals and perennials are not usually shown in detail.

Construction details, specifications, contract administration, unlimited meetings, unlimited revistions, and just about anything else is not included in a Schematic Landscape Plan.

I have not always had the final cost of construction given to me or kept data on those that were, but I think it is safe to say that it usually winds up being about 2% to 3% for a Schematic Landscape Plan. Seldom does it go over 5%, but there may have been a rare occaission or two that it got to 10%. These are not quoted rates, just a comparison of design price divided by total landscape cost when all is complete.

Don't let the term "Schematic" fool you. It is a detailed plan view of the landscape will lots of notations. It is not a diagram. But, it is not a complete set of construction documents.

The designers that you hear about getting 10-20% are doing complete construction documents and contract administration. Those who do that earn every bit of it.

Marcinde,
That's not an answer, that is evasion.

Are you also into politics ?

Thanks Laag for once again providing a straight answer.

Politics? Hardly. I just couldn't get a grasp on your tone or intent, based on how you asked it. Not being comfortable with it, I chose to sidestep. I'll continue sidling around it, except to say that what I charge is fair to me, fair to the client, and- based on what laag said and what I provide- reasonable for the market. That's really all the financial info I'm interested in sharing, as I feel that's getting us farther from the OP's needs than we already are.

It's true we have digressed from the OP's originial query, however the discussion has brought up issues that are valid to address and may be very helpful to others in Sam's position.

As has been mentioned on this forum numerous times and by laag himself, this is a pretty diverse industry with a full range of practictioners who conduct their professional activities over an equally wide client base and offer a range of services. To assume an "average" client with a small suburban property and a low to modest budget cannot access the services of a professional landscape designer because it's not "worth their time" is misleading and IME, inaccurate. In the very narrow context of this thread, there are at least two professionals who service this specific type of client and in the broader context, I'm going to have to say the percentage is even higher. Locally, there are at least as many small independent designers who's client base is comprised of these smaller, modest budget projects as there are larger, design/build firms who focus on commercial and high-end residential clients. And, even with this season's lousy weather and dismal economy, there seems to be enough work for all.

While on smaller projects the design fees may very well be proportionally higher to the total cost of the project than they would be on larger ones, that is not the drawback to the client that laag and d-d would have us believe. Or it has not been in my experience. The fact the client contracts with a professional designer at all indicates a need for help they are unable to provide themselves and they are willing to pay for it, within reason. I would say laag's quoted rates are right in the ballpark for most projects I undertake and seem to be equally comparable for my fellow local designers that conduct similar practices. Sure, some smaller projects are weeded out with this type of rate structure, but those tend to be prospective clients with little understanding of the process overall and no real concept of the cost of a landscape installation in the first place. While this is a very active and moderately sophisticated area horticulturally, I can't believe my situation is so isolated or the phenomenon so regional in nature that the same acitivity cannot be located elsewhere, especially close to any large urban area. It may be much different in more rural areas or remoter locations, but with due research, it is my opinion that a skilled designer can be located that will be suited to any scope of project.

The bottom line is that simply because a homeowner has a small property and a modest budget it does not mean that they should be discouraged from seeking professional design assistance if that is what they want and need - there are skilled designers out there that can and will help them and at rates they can afford. This is no longer just the pursuit of the wealthy nor should it be.

The very simple basic question , " what percentage of income is derived from a 10 thousand dollar project", seems to cause a Palin answer : huba duh huba duh.

The reason it is asked is for plain practical education.

As a Homeowner who has a 10 thousand dollar installation budget , they will want to know what percentage of that is going to design services.
Simple question, Simple answer .
As a professional you are bound by law to write up a contract for your services and state the amount.
If you have done dozens or hundreds of jobs you would know the approximate cost of providing your services and provide a simple and direct answer.

You either figure out your standard percentage rate if you bill on a flat rate or you figure out how many hours it will take you to perform the required tasks and multiply it by your hourly rate.

There is a reason why most professional landscape designers do not do 10K jobs for the basic reason that Laag went into great detail to explain.
It is an unbalanced economical choice for the client unless they put a high value on design.
It takes the same amount of time to perform the prerequisite work tasks whether it is a 10 K or a 100 K job.
Therein lies the percentage values and the question that is on everybody's mind : Do you want to spend 15 to 20% of your installation budget on design services ? Many people in the 10K realm do not. " It is not a good match."

If you are a part time designer or depend on someone else's income to cover the mortgage, taxes and the basic expenses of family life, then doing a 10K job can certainly work economically.
But the simple mathematics of it says that you would have a hard time making a living , supporting yourself ( never mind a family ) and meeting your expenses if your professional design only business was based on installation projects at the 10 K level.

GardenGal, No one is discouraging small budget clients from seeking professional help. The discussion is being made so that they understand the economics of their decision.

That is why a straight answer , instead of rhetoric is appreciated.

Please take this arguing to another post or between yourselves. This person wants help and not debates between the two of you.

If you don't see the intrinsic value of the 'discussion' and how it relates to the to cost, value and time that it takes to draft up a plan then you are showing your lack of understanding of the subject of Landscape Design, of which this is a free flowing discussion forum thereof.

Sam the Homeowner has requested help in designing his landscape.
He can receive help via a landscape designer if he decides to hire one but it would behoove him if he knew how the design process works and how its costs reveal themselves.
This discussion explores this.

Or would you rather us say, " Plant 5 photinias, two petunias and partridge in a pear tree ?

Sam08, if you are still with us. Please try the Virginia Gardening forum on Garden Web. They will be more familiar with nurseries and services in your area. The discussion on this thread does show how important a budget is to LD services so you can be better prepared when you contact your LD candidates.

I actually find the discussion/argument interesting and it illustrates the difference between LD as a job and as the only job for a family. The smaller budget projects really may only be suited to LDs who do not depend on it as their only source of family income. Fortunately, there are many in that situation and with talent.

No one has brought up that some nurseries will provide limited design services for a bed or a small area, as a way to get you to buy their plants. I have not gone that route, but it maybe an option to consider.

dd- fine, here's a non-Palin answer for you: I am under no obligation to answer whatever question you choose to ask about financial and contractual agreements between myself and my clients, and if you feel I must... well, ain't gonna happen. You know what the best way is for someone to find out what a service will cost them in their area? Call a service provider in their area and ASK. I see no point in posting my rate structure, since so many factors- desired income, experience level, and direction I want to take the business- went into setting my rate for billable hours. I never said my practice is based on sub-10K jobs, I said I have been well-compensated on the sub-10K jobs I've chosen to take on. My point in stating that was to indicate that in my area, at least, the design market is still pretty decent. Had I known that it would cause you such consternation, I would've just clicked over to failblog or something.

phone number please,
So we can ask.

Whoa! What is the point, d-d, in harassing marcinde for information s/he is unwilling/uncomfortable in giving? I thought this forum had moved past this sort of acrimony lately.... If some of you are comfortable in talking about your billing structure (and, by implication, the type of client base you have) that's nice but, if others aren't, I see no reason why they should feel obligated - or pressured - to provide it on a forum like this. And asking for information that appears to be an implicit request for information on income seems intrusive and I think marcinde is reacting to that as most people would.

Once upon a time I stumbled across an extremely well-written thread on this forum about the different design approaches available to clients. It was mostly a thorough three way discussion between Mich-in-zonal-denial, gardengal 48, and a long ago OP whose name escapes me.

The writing was excellent and I came away feeling as though I knew something more about the options available to homeowners. The different scope of services were clearly laid out with the various advantages and disadvantages.

FranklyDeviant, , it doesn't suit your usual wide open approach to ideas to hound Dave for his percentage on smaller projects. Since at present I've paid for a plan and not moved forward to accomplish anything, I guess you could say that the percentage paid to the designer is 100%. In other words, what's the surprise. I expect to pay a bit more for design work given that I hope to accomplish much through sweat equity and can only proceed slowly. Yet, having the plan in hand has greatly clarified what I hope to do.

Phone number? Asking someone to prove they fit a narrow definition? Sounds like litmus testing to meRather Palinesque.

Pot calling kettle black?

Why should the cost of services be shrouded in mystery ?
Is the profession of landscape design and the cost of its services be so high above any other that it should be kept secret from the public.

Dogging - yes. You don't get results, information and education being a couch potato , especially from those who claim to have professional status but are unwilling to explain in simple layman's terms how they bill out for their services.

The cost of Landscape Design Services should not be put so high on some esoteric plane that you cannot articulate in simple layman terms the estimated costs of services.

If one goes to a car mechanic his fee structure is noted on the board above his desk and he will write you an estimate prior to fixing your car problem.
If you go to or call an attorney for services he explains his fee structure and lays out the course of action and its estimated costs.
If you call or go to an architect, a landscape architect, an interior designer or whomever the professional might be, she states her fee structure, gives you an estimate for services rendered.

Why should landscape design be any different ? Is it that precious ?

Why does the public have to be kept in the dark. Why such inscrutable mystery ?

Kettle black ? - Youv'e got your nose too far down it to see the soup inside.

If anyone was to ask me what my fees for a 10K job was I would gladly supply them this information. - In the past I have even posted a contract for services and my billing structure.

But instead, people would rather call kettles black instead of seeing the wide open pointed approach in educating the public as to the process , its values and the compensation that goes with it.

It's so much easier to keep it all a oblique mystery thus creating the allusion that landscape design is something its not. It is merely a service oriented profession that the public has the right to know its associated costs.

d-d that sounds very reasonable on the surface. I think what came across as objectionable is the tone of some of your comment that seem to imply that a designer who does small jobs cannot make a reasonable income from it and must be part-time or supported by other sources of income. I have no doubt that is true for some people/sometimes. But clearly there are a couple of regular responders here who seem to specialize in smaller jobs and seem to find that adequate. So repeated questioning how they do it comes across as having an implicit value judgement/impolite curiosity about income levels/lifestyle. And that comes across as inappropriate/intrusive. I suspect that the costing details of small jobs are perhaps more variable than larger jobs and 'posted rates' are more likely to be specific to the job. That is certainly my experience with hiring smaller contractors of various sorts.

It is reasonable question on the surface or whether else you might want to view it from.
I'm not asking for any one's 1099 forms, their yearly income or their profit and loss statement.

I'm asking as a Homeowner :
I have a 10 thousand dollar landscape budget.
What are the estimated Design Fees that I should expect to pay for your services ?

Transparency of a business transaction.

and if that's the information you've provided? Let's revisit one of your own examples from above, the mechanic. What you just asked is the same as calling a mechanic and saying "what do you charge to work on a 2005 Ford Escape?" That would be idiotic, and anyone here- pro or layperson- can see that.

This is getting silly. Why should you care what I charge? More to the point, how does one make the leap from "I'm not comfortable telling you my fee structure" to "unprofessional lowballing hack (which is basically what you've called me thus far, can't wait to see what's next) who's trying to 'keep the public in the dark.'" I'm not saying no one should have any idea what landscape design costs. I'm saying I'm not willing to open my business practices up to random, unknown folks who are not clients, especially given that that information, once posted here, is searchable and out of my control. Additionally, because every job is priced differently, just how useful would that be? More to the point, I'm also saying that I'm unwilling to share that information with YOU, because right from the start you've made a chip on your shoulder apparent, and what I do is not yours to pick apart.

I think its wonderful that you posted all that information about your business. Thats your right. It is not my obligation to follow in your footsteps and do the same, if I do not wish to. I've apparently stumbled into the middle of your great crusade to elevate the profession, though, because my simple unwillingness to give you what you so petulantly demand has clearly gotten under your skin. You don't know me, you don't know the type of business I run, and I'd appreciate it if you stopped implying that I clearly can't be a professional designer because I won't jump through your stupid little hoops and play your games.

Deviant, you are very astute.

Couch potato? Guilty. Currently, can only leave bed for short forays to the kitchen and computer. Broken leg that will be giving me hell for weeks due to other health issues.

Unable to see soup?Guilty, again. Totally blind. Has nothing to do with length of nose or how far into something I stick it.

Anyway, I am glad you are in the discussion. I just feel that if Dave wants to answer your query here, that's his call. I'd say it has little to do with how he may or may not communicate with his clients. I didn't catch your contract on this forum, but your willingness to provide such information is commendable. That, however, is your call.

Different strokes. Still, Marcinde may think it's kind of cool that he has single-handedly invented the Romulan cloaking device for landscape costs.

As for me, when I want landscape design services in my area I'll ask locally. I'll check references and go with my husband to review work (we've done that). I'll get myself familiar with local costs. I've lived pretty much east, west, north and south, so know that there can be a wide range in prices for services. VA won't help me much, nor Marin Co.

Poor Sam. He must be wondering what all of this means.

So, Sam, if you're out there:

There are a number of ways you can get the help you need for your landscape. The first thing is to come to terms with the fact that your project is too large for your personal skill set. That's why you posted in the first place. You could increase your own knowledge and ability base, but that will cost you time and energy. I've been trying to improve my skills for years and only feel a very shaky competence and only in reference to one location, that is, my own home. The best of the amateurs here recognize their limits and most have used some sort of landscape professional to solve issues in the landscape: driveways, sidewalks, lighting, patios, decks, porches, grade and drainage issues, framing views, screening, placement of beds, borders, specimen trees, etc. Often even more important is the organic relationship of each aspect of the landscape to the whole. It takes equal parts engineer, artist, and creative problem solver to pull design work off well, and each lot will have its own set of peculiarities and pitfalls to avoid. Lesson no. 1 is that trying it via internet suggestions may not accomplish the best results.

A bad result might mean that you invest money and time and plant plants here and there that end up looking lame. Even worse is that you follow poor advice that leads to costly damage to your home.

So what about getting help? Again, buyer beware. Certification of landscape designers is, I think, different in different places. In some states you can throw a sign on the side of a truck that reads "Landscape Service" and put a few tools in back and you're in business.

So, on the one hand it's very worth it to get qualified help in designing the exterior of your home. On the other, make sure the person is qualified, check her or him out, and then make sure it's someone you enjoy or "click with" in your interactions.

marcinde has an extremely good point and his/her comment was exactly the intent of my own reply. My estimated design fees for the client with a $10K budget will depend entirely on what that client expects to achieve with their $10K. And until meeting with that client, exploring their needs, assessing their property and existing landscape, determining the scope of the project, understanding what contribution in terms of their own labor they intend to make to the project and if the $10K is the maximum they intend to devote to the project or just the initial phase of a more complex design, the question is moot.

I'm not in the LD business, but all businesses share commonalities to my field (construction and environmental remediation). In my field companies have lots of different business models, markets, and marketing techniques which affect their rate structure. We have often beat out other companies, because of our low overhead rates. As mentioned before, chasing too many bids can put you into a losing increasing overhead rate spiral. Further profit is not only from a declared percentage rate on a contract... there are other mark ups invovled. Also,for a fixed rate contract, you have to execute the scope of work, and if it can be done with a value engineering approach that saves money that also increase the profit.

Marcinde, if you can get fixed price work and get a 20% gross margin off it, then you're doing great, and more power to you!

Wow, remind me not to post before I go away for a couple of days.

I never said you can't get a designer.I just pointed out that it is much more difficult.

Someone said that lots of nurseries have designers in order to make sales. If my posts were not so long and convoluted, it would have been clear that I mentioned them as well as contractors. I also mentioned why I believe that Sam's particular situation was not suited for either of those two unless he was willing to mislead them.

I don't think anyone is under any obligation to post how (s)he carges for jobs. I'm a lot more open about these things than most folks and don't expect others to follow suit.

It is a diverse field and there are lots of levels of services and skill sets to deliver those services - not to mention style and taste that may or may not match the client and designer. The less generic the problem, the more valuable the solution is. Also, that makes it harder it is to find someone with the skill set to remedy the problem - again increasing the value.

Can Sam get someone to draw him a plan for $50. Probably. Will it be anything other than an arrangement of plants? Probably not.

So far he has been told to paint his door, make a curvy bed and plant pleasing plants appropriate to his area. A designer might give him a list of specific plants and a rough layout for a small fee. Another might layout a walk along with the planting plan for a little more. Still another might be able to use the walk shape, the bed shape, plant selection, topography, and other built work to radically transform dull to dynamite - that is not a common skill set and will not likely be widely available and at a low rate.

Three bucks can buy Sam lunch at Wendy's off of the dollar menu. There are other places where $200 won't buy him lunch at all. If he came to you and said that he wanted to know a website that had recipes and also where he could get a good deal on ingredients one might expect that he probably is not that interested in a chef whether from Paris or the frialator. That is exact equivalent of what he said. That is why I did not understand the designer twist that this thread took on early.

A person with a 2005 Ford Escape walks to the phone and calls his local mechanic.
Mechanic answers the phone
The 2005 For Escape Owner asks how much does it cost to work on this car.
Mechanic answers : I work by the hour, our hourly rate is $ 85 dollars . Bring your car in and we'll give you an estimate after we have a chance to do our client/site analysis ... er um, I mean our vehicle inspection.

No need to Rube Goldburg the scenario. It's really quite a simple answer.

No one , including myself has implied or mentioned that you're a "unprofessional lowballing hack", except for yourself.

Someone with problem solving abilities ( a common skill in landscape architecture ) would see the " 10 thousand dollar question" above and work it to their professional advantage.
Unfortunately the opportunity was lost, and we are all the more less informed because of it.

Alas, for I was the linchpin for the entire discussion. Sad.

Duhziner,obviously not everybody likes to be in the spotlight and you can't force them to be in it.

Why don't you continue the discussion that you seem keen on directing, because the rest of us that want to learn what is the point of it all.

You can lead a student to the classroom, but you can't make them learn if they aren't willing to participate.

The point of the discussion was educating the public to the various costs and fee structures of landscape design and how they are devised by different professionals in the field.

No one answer would be correct or incorrect, but the ability to articulate how a professional would receive compensation for a project that was in the 10 thousand dollar range would have elevated the educational level and understanding of the process.

Alas, the class is dismissed and some students should go back and repeat a grade.

Hi Sam. Two things. As I'm sure you've read several times, you can't really get a good design done online. It is much better from a designers point of view to see the garden. Second, If you search around a little you may find a newly qualified designer who would be willing to give you a good deal on a design in return for the experience, I know I did.

dd- my god you're insufferable. Maybe you decided costs and fee structures was where you wanted to go with the discussion, but I never said I was going there. The horse is dead, sweetheart. You can stop beating it any time now. And if you think I have any interest in being your student, your lack of self-awareness is staggering.

I haven't read the entire thread, but a GREAT alternative for a design for the kind of scale that you're talking about here is to go to a nursery that gives a free design service as long as you promise to buy a certain $$ of plants--this can be as low as $250 in some places but is much more likely to be $500 or $1000.

Off the bat, I'd suggest that you paint your garage door a nice, unassuming taupe and puts a pergola with something really substantial to fill up the space between the top of the garage door and the windows. I know, I know--so very HGTV-ish. I'm not usually a "Put a pergola on it!" person, but in this case, because of the size and visual weight of the garage and the expanse of brick, I say "go for it."

A more substantial walk and a lighter colored front door would help quite a bit, too. I'd get some height in there--between walk/house and toward the property line-edge of the bed but NOT obscuring the walk or front door from the front--to give the design enough substance to work with the narrow form of the house. If everything's low, the eye won't even notice it's there.

I kinda wish this thread had come along six or seven years ago - may have a made a difference to my business.

I adore d-d and when she says: "No one answer would be correct or incorrect, but the ability to articulate how a professional would receive compensation for a project that was in the 10 thousand dollar range would have elevated the educational level and understanding of the process." i totally agree.

I used to do many jobs in the 8,000 to 15,000 price range and my design fee, just out of design school, started at $400 flat. It didn't take me long to realize I was losing a ton of money (or, to put it another way, was making about $5.00 per hour after all the expenses were added in)for a multi-page design. That's when I started a design build company and those little jobs actually did make money, with the build part subsidizing the design part.

For clients who wanted a design only, the charge grew to 1,000 - 1,500, depending on the complexity and distance from my home office; I found that the demand for this kind of service at this price was very low. I did, however offer a consulting service at $125 per hour, which included sketches drawn on the spot and plant suggestions.

Sam received some great suggestions and I found the discussion of fees enlightening. In the interest of complying with the fairness doctrine, thought I'd throw in that as tempted as I was to follow the example of our new vice president-elect and invent a false background for myself to join the fray, I will limit myself to to appreciating the opportunity to listen.

It's all about that three letter word j-o-b-s! Biden spells better than Dan Quail but his computational skills are lacking!

rian what does that have to do with the LD fee structure in China??

Re-read this thread carefully. I personally think you should
not give up so quickly and move to China, rhodium. Give Barack a chance!

Well, his name is spelled Quayle...

Other than that, I'm not following your thread re-diret at all.

The spelling was a joke, rhodium. I assumed your "LD ... fee in China" was a pun--so the moving to China comment was a joke too.

The references to Biden were in response to the catty comments about Sarah Palin that were scattered about in this thread. I'm a Democrat but I admire her for her willingness to take on corruption in her own party. As Democrats we have a tendency to cover up, ignore and excuse corruption in our party leaders, so I see her as a role model.

Biden is a nice guy but he has said many seriously weird things. I was just trying to work them into the conversation to provide a little balance. After all isn't the landscape design forum all about that three letter word j-o-b-s.

I think Sam went somewhere else. Maybe because he wasn't a good prospect.

You can learn to design your home yourself online! Try enrolling in a landscaping class, it could really change your outlook on gardening and design. I recommend this course: http://www.inst.org/gd/become.htm , but you can always google for more. Good luck on your home, I'm sure it would be beautiful! :)

bogart,

Thanks for you post, it makes sense to have a per hour charge.

I also think the analogy between a mechanic fixing a car and landscape work does not hold. Simply because to most people car mechanics is somewhat of a black art, what may appear to be a simple problem might be end up costing more than the car to fix. While even an individual that may not think much of the value of landscape design, can tell the difference between a small garden and big garden. Actually it's great if a person has a budget; if it's not inline with his expectations then a good designer could try to educate the prospect. I imagine that is part of the process.

I live in the land of the cheap AKA: do-it-yourselfers.

To be fair, I am also one of those 'do it yourself' types so I'm not dissing that per se.

In recoginition of that, I do onsite consults/schematic plans for an hourly charge for small projects and do it yourselfers. I charge around $100 per hour (since that seems to matter so much) and will spend 2-3 hours on site. When I leave the client has the sketch and the very basic knowledge they need to proceed (what parts they can do, what parts to hire out and where to get materials etc.).

Works for me since I don't have to spend anytime beyond the time on site working on the plan. I'm in and I'm out. Is it as good a plan as one I've spent much more time on? Of course not. Is it better than what the vast majority of homeowners could come up with themselves? Absolutely.

The OP could likely find someone to give them a consult. Not all consults are the same though. It seems a great number of so-called professionals lack the ability to draw to scale quickly or recall plant material names etc. under time pressure. You have to find someone who can do both of those things.

And while I'm sure there are those on this thread who will look down on me for being willing to do the small jobs or consults, I actually end up making more per hour on those jobs than on my more elaborate plans. And in tight markets, many people will spring for a consult even if they won't spring for a full design.

I do have the luxury though of working because I enjoy it. My husband supports the family and I earn the fun money. Perhaps I'd do things differently if I were more career focused but my kids are more important and I won't put them in someone else's care so I have to accept that my career will be less than it might have been if I'd chosen differently. I like being able to help even average Joe's have access to good design.

This is a really nice posting, is putting the landscape design needs of a home owner in perspective. I also appreciate that there is an option of hiring a designer on an hourly basis, because not all of an homeowner's projects and questions are worth a whole project.

I learned enough about plants over my lifetime because it is my #1 hobby besides my family. I sometimes got lost in some small projects with one type of plant. But the architectural part of landscape design is not easy to grasp, and not all landscape designers are trained properly in architecture. I mean it is important how landscape is to interface properly to house and environment. There I could use some help sometimes, and could use the help of a professional, on an hourly basis.

Bernd

For limited consulting type jobs, some landscape designers will come out and do quick review of your property and provide comments. Not unlike what is provided to posters that ask questions here about there property, but in more detail and with explanation. These usually are per the visit and not the hour, with the assumption that the visit will be only for a fixed time and depth of consultation (ie. no plans or renderings). That has been my experience.

Alsternatively, some nursery's will offer design services and charge a fee for each "designed" area, which would be a planting bed or some small area.

hereyougo www.yourdesignerlandscapes Inc.