Oh Ink, hold on just a while, there are still practical things need doing down south. But winter is coming, and we will speak of things esoteric. But in my case, you must remember to speak slowly.

I had a question I was saving for winter, inspired by your name (Ink) no less. But seeing your restless mood ....

I think I have heard some of those artsy folks say that there is no true black. Is there black? Should there be black? And what significance does it have in the garden?

Ink, you're talking about what, exactly?

KarinL

There was a scene in the movie "The Good, the Bad, & the Ugly" where Tuco Ramirez (the ugly) is sitting in a bath tub. A person seeking revenge sneaks up on him and catches him in this vulnerable position. The man starts telling him that he is going to shoot him as he points the gun at him. After a long speech about what scum Tuco is, a shot rings out and the revenge seeking man falls dead as Tuco had a revolver tied around his neck under the suds. As Tuco proceeds to wash his ears, he says to the corpse "if you are going to shoot, shoot, don't talk about it".

Participation in this forum (and any other forum/message boards) is always voluntary. And since there is no moderation to speak of, those who come here to visit run the gamut from seasoned professionals to those that don't have a clue. Therefore, it's not unreasonable to assume the topics and subject matter will run a similar gamut - a few that will stimulate the intellect, some that will engender an informative exchange but most that are mundane.......maybe even repetitive, trite or outright boring. Personalities of the participants seem to mirror this as well :-)

From a personal perspective, I tend to lurk more than participate as the bulk of the topics hold little interest for me and frankly, this is not the place I look to for meaningful exchanges with fellow professionals or to discuss the philosophical implications of this profession. When I feel I have something meaningful to offer I do but I'm not surprised if it's value is not appreciated by the recipiant......again, if I were a homeowner wanting to obtain landscaping advice or direction, I'd look for someone in person locally, not on a forum with an unrestricted and potentially global readership. But the frustrations this forum often generates for me as a professional are far outweighed by its diversity and the entertainment value it provides.

Ink, perhaps you are attempting to assign more value to this medium and find more meaning in it than it deserves?

I used to visit here to try to learn something new. Now I visit for the entertainment and occasional interesting design discussion. I have to say, it's not even as entertaining as it used to be.

I'm not sure I understand the reason for this, because although some past forum participants have stopped coming by, a good many of the old regulars are still here. Can it be that folks have run out of things to talk about, and all that's left are the "help me with my yard" posts?

Personally, I enjoy the posts that offer concrete problem solving design advice, especially if it's offered by one of the more talented and experienced folks on this forum. Unfortunately, some of them are either too busy or bored by the questions to respond sometimes. Maybe it's to avoid being accused of being elitist when they try to "raise the bar", as has often happened. We used to ignore those accusations and carry on. Our loss.

Yes: I constantly expect to be told my suggestions are invalid or to be ignored.

That's not unique to this forum, however. But the long-established general atmosphere here would tend to make people not want to join in on topics that don't have a particular interest or excitement for them. Why stick your neck out?

Originally I came here to enjoy reading what were really informative and challenging discussions. Those are largely gone. But I hung around for the occasional flash of brilliance and humor, the occasional documented garden project, and what I perceived as a human connection among gardeners from all over. Now even those are rare, and the human connection I suppose was largely imaginary on my part, just wishful thinking. Now this place echoes. If you push over a tree in this forest, no one will acknowledge they heard it.

>But I hung around for the occasional flash of brilliance and humor, the occasional documented garden project, and what I perceived as a human connection among gardeners from all over. Now even those are rare, and the human connection I suppose was largely imaginary on my part, just wishful thinking. Now this place echoes. If you push over a tree in this forest, no one will acknowledge they heard itInterestingly and well put.

I don't knowÂI thought this summer's crop of posts had some satisfying interludes.

There was Scraplolly's series of queries. I don't know if she's gone or its already too cold to do much in the garden or the back-to-school frenzy caught her unawares with kids? Hope we'll hear from her again.

Then there appear to be some new professional voices? I'd have to read through some posts to get the names right, but there's a TX person and maybe someone from Florida? Maybe a couple of others?

And then along came landscapedesignchina et al.

I wandered over to GardenRant to check out the blogs, but there isn't the same kind of exchangeÂGood writing, at times, and I suppose some have great pictures, but not really the same. Also, I haven't figured out how to comment on a blog.

For a are looser, more free form. That's their weakness and their strength. No one really monitors the quality or topic of original posts. It could be anything, and often is. I have found out that sometimes the posts that teach me, or make me laugh, are the ones I didn't think would interest me at all.

I do find it tiresome and slow to load GW pages. I have broadband, so the issue is my dinosaur computer. I have to do weird techno dances in order to successfully post. Certain pagesÂthat long one from landscapedesignchina, for instance--crash my system.

So I have some reasons for getting sick of things. Still, Tony, I'd recommend taking sick-leave rather than killing yourself off. Maybe just go over Victoria Falls like Sherlock. Somehow he managed a comebackÂwhich is what I'll be hoping for in your case.

Did you know that in the computer game Grand Theft Auto all you have to do after getting mortally wounded a dozen times or more is to make it to a hotdog stand and partake? Consider a hotdog--dressed or naked, a pint, and a cigar for afters sent to restore you.

Wellspring

I don't think they'd like it if you showed up at a hot dog stand naked.

OoooopsÂumÂway back in the day when I worked at a Coney Island we referred to hotdogs without chili, or cheese, or onions, or relish, or mustard as "naked".

But then again, Boy, how do you know that I wouldn't be appreciated without clothing? Most of the guys I know would beg to differ. If you prefer a dress, picture a backless black number and a talent for singing torch songs. Eat your heart out.

Wellspring

I guess I'll date myself by saying I knew what a naked hot dog is.

and a talent for singing torch songs

Really!?? And have you some online songs? I've been thinking a duet would be so much fun to do.

I was addressing Inkognito, as you were.

A naked dog?! I moved cross country to North Carolina once. When ordering a hot dog at a stand, I was asked "all the way?". Wow, did that make me wonder what the heck was the East coast all about.

I lurk lots. I learn once in a great, great while. Thanks to all you professionals. I don't design, but I deal with plants, so the design aspect is of interest to me. And there's a lot more going on here than in the professionals forum.

Maybe we all dicovered this forum and found it to be new and exciting and the novelty is what has waned more than the substance.

There has always been what I would consider as lame threads, nuisance posts, as well as lots of good stuff. I also went through a few periods where I thought it ran its course. But, it was probably more to do with the novelty wearing out with me.

Think about it. Every once in a while a new person shows up and posts in any and every thread. Then a little less and less and less. The novelty either wears out with them, or they are not happy that we who have been here for a while are not equally excited about their posts.

Sure we have lost some really good participants, but many probably left because the novelty wore off on them as well. Their posts would likely express that as well. I know mine are sometimes inspired while other times they are anything but inspired and probably should not have been written (maybe in this thread?).

I think how we perceive the forum changes much more than the forum changes. This must be about the fifth time Ink (and I forgot his previous handle before he changed it after he left one of those times) has started this same type thread about leaving. It is as much of a constant as "what color should I paint my front door".

As Talking Heads, the group from the late seventies /early eighties said "same as it ever was, same as it ever was, ....."

This forum does bring together all of the different aspects and levels of the landscaping business... from Design (LDs), landscaping installation/maintenance folks, and customers.

How the various inputs to this business percieve each other has been intriguing to me. Also this business is seasonal, and idle hands are the devils workshop.

I hadn't realised this half baked post of mine went out as it was something I was working on and not meant the way it has been interpreted. As soon as I realised I asked the moderator to delete it so please ignore me in the meanwhile.

The swans here trumpet, making them pretty hardy to ignore also.

Sure glad I keep typing these wrong spellings.

Comment from a defensive newbie - and I hope I'm not intruding on an insiders' discussion: OK, help me understand. I'm not a professional. Well, I am but I'm not in one of the trades. I am, however, learning a little DIY so I am using this and other forums to learn what I can.

My understanding of gardenweb forums is that they are open forums for exchange of information and usually populated by homeowners or those with a hobby. I didn't think these forums are primarily "ask the pro" and I never thought that they were intended to be professional forums. So, do I need to have substantial background or experience before I respond to a post, or can I just offer a non-pro's opinion?

I tend to agree with gardengal48. Internet forums are almost never static. They often go through sort of life stages. People come and people go. Some get bored, and some get their feeling hurt or become otherwise disgruntled and go away. Some just get discouraged if their posts are not answered. What I really want to know is: Should I expect to be intimidated if I post a newbie question or comment? No, wait. I just did. Or can I ask away and exoect patience and tolerance?

Post your questions and see what happens.

This is not a forum for professionals, but the forum has been fortunate to have the the participation a number of talented pros on the board for a long time. This has raised the level of discussion about design above what would be possible with only homeowners asking questions and responding to each other. It's been a wonderful learning opportunity for a lot of people, myself included.

Anyone is welcome to post, but be prepared for some lively discussion, disagreement, and lots of good information. If you're easily intimidated, try reading some old posts first, to get some background information before sticking your neck out. Also, do a search on your topic before asking repetitive questions that don't require individualized responses, like how to post a photo, where to start, how to work with a designer, etc.

Sorry Ink, we'll ignore your post now. Or start another.

Blanche, I think most of us are saying we're keen to hear your question. That whole intimidation reputation is an old myth, more than anything else. If you're looking to solve a problem, as opposed to looking for cheerleaders, most of us are game.

KarinL

Posts like this one are like rock and roll songs about being a rock and roll musician.

Why would anyone think there was a relationship between this post and rock and roll?

Here is a link that might be useful: Swan Song Records - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia