I've planted a lot of vinca in my yard. When I first started planting it, I thought it would choke out the weeds since I planted it about four inches apart. I was wrong. It doesn't choke out the weeds. Those sections have become a nightmare. In fact, I'm going to spray Round Up on a large section because it has horsetails growing up through it, and they're indestructible. I'm planting Junipers that are taller than horsetails there instead.

On the other hand, I have some places that I planted later that are almost trouble free. I used the vinca sort of like a mulch around my shrubs on the other side of the house. Since I knew by this time that they wouldn't choke out grass and weeds, I spent a lot of time weeding the first summer as the vinca grew in. When it's first planted, it's really easy to pull the weeds. After the weeds and vinca are both established, the roots all grow together and it's almost impossible to weed. Each time I weeded that summer, it took less time than the summer before. Now, I still pull a few weeds each summer, but the job literally only takes 5-10 minutes once a summer. Most of the time, it's just noticing a weed or blade of grass here or there as I'm walking by and picking it. I'm very happy with the vinca in those places.

As for being invasive, it will slowly spread to adjacent areas, but it's very easy to control.

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I've found that either vinca or pachysandra, when planted adjacent to a lawn, is easy to contain with the mower. No ground cover will NEVER need weeding, but if you mulch well after planting, and stay on top of it until it fills in, most weeds will not get enough light to germinate.

My new vinca plantings last year seemed to sprout twenty weeds for every one I pulled until I realized I was bringing weed seeds to the surface by pulling. I started spot-killing carefully with Round-up and the job became much easier. You can also use a pre-emergent like Preen to keep weed seeds from germinating until your ground cover is established, though I try not to use chemicals unless I'm desperate.

The plant helichrysum, is such a fast grower that it easily competes and often times wins against the native weed population here in northern california

some of the ground cover salvias also are fast spreaders and the groundcover Acacia redolons is a successful fast growing groundcover that will outpace our native weeds .

An important factor to take into consideration is our Meditteranean climate. We receive No rain during the summer months.
So if a fast growing ground cover is planted in the spring and augmented with drip irrigation thru out the summer , we can get a good jump on smothering out weeds.

Here is a link that might be useful:

Liriope spicata. I can't remember the last time I had a weed in that- either mine or my maintenance clients'.

Nandina, a naughty question. A plant that covers the ground smothering only weeds that is not invasive? You should be wearing a hat out there in the sun on the golf course you know.

Preen specifically lists vinca as something that you shouldn't use Preen on. That was a poorly written sentence, but I hope you understood it. It lists a couple other plants too, but I was just interested in vinca, so that's the only one I remember.

We have been invaded!!! Go up to the first two posts and note the sudden appearance of green, underlined words.

Gah!! Advertising has infiltrated our very own posts! I suppose we should create a code now. Instead of weeds, we must say \/\/33:)$. Or start treated them the same way we do obscenities. "Please help me with my w**d situation down here. I can't seem to get rid of them. What type of pl*nts will help me?"

Anyways, to the point. I like lamium, it grows well in cooler, shadier, moister (more moist?) spots, but grows pretty much everywhere. Some varieties (i.e. White Nancy) are more sun-tolerant than others (i.e. Beacon Silver), but the important thing (to me) is that they grow well underneath shallow-rooted trees well (read, maple, or should I say m*ple?). Their leaves are often variegated, with silver and green, but also come in yellow. Never had a problem with w**ds in lamium unless they were present before the lamium was put in. A simple weeding before planting and the occasional weeding is all it takes.

-Audric

Wow, as if the scrolling banners and giant ad at the top weren't enough! I thought those posters intentionally created links, until I scrolled over the words. Oh brother, what's next?

I planted vinca under some big trees and it filled in beautifully, but I still get dandelions, shoots of grass and other weeds. I appreciate the suggestion for spot spraying because these beds have turned way more high maintenance than I imagined. Other groundcovers I have include sedum acre and stonecrop (in a rock garden), yellow archangel (lamiastrum galeobdolon), pachysandra, and the dreaded english ivy. Of all of those, the yellow archangel does the best against weeds, and while it spreads fast, it's fairly easy to pull out.

ummmm----I'm not seeing any green underlined words...I must be living right. (That or the nursery gods are taking pity on me.)

I get weeds (and small trees--mostly mimosas) popping up through my vinca--but I lop them off and they don't seem to return. I used to use a pair of hedge shears--then DH got me a Stihl weed whacker for mother's day. SUCH a thoughtful husband!

I wouldn't call vinca "non-invasive"--but it IS fairly easy to keep in control--IF you stay on top of it. As I explained to a customer today (WHY are people out in 95* heat buying plants?)--if it grows and spreads fast enough to be considered a ground cover, then it is, BY DEFINITION, somewhat invasive!

melanie

Nandina  Are you seeking a groundcover that will out-compete existing weeds, or one that will keep new weed seeds from germinating in a prepared bed? If your answer is the latter, large-leaved Hostas are the best living mulch that we have found. We used ÂBlue Umbrellas and ÂSum and Substance to shade out weeds beneath and behind tall Viburnums. When the Hosta leaves shrivel in the fall, the very few weeds that managed to survive could be removed quickly.

Of course, we stripped the sod and semi-prepared the soil first. In your climate, you may need to use heat-tolerant H. plantaginea and its cultivars.

Bruce

I really like Pachysandra procumbens (Allegheny spurge) for its understated good looks (mid to dark green foliage, less plastic-looking than the Japanese pachysandra, as well as white flowers in spring), but at its current growth rate it'll be 2030 before it fills the bed. It is also under the handicap of dueling with variegated vinca, which as the original groundcover planted before my arrival here, resents the competition.
Rubus calycinoides (creeping raspberry) is a neat plant for groundcover in sun.

I was a little surprised to see Nandina touting the wonders of the Weed Killer Super Store, but apparently others have been turned into unwitting pitchmen as well.

Any links appearing in this post have not been placed by me.

Phyllostachus pygmaeus forms a thick mat which comes about as close as anything I've seen to being weedproof. Unlike most running bamboos its fairy easy to contain because it's fairly shallow rooted. Does best in part shade but handles full sun if provided adequate moisture. Tops out at 18-24" tall

My backyard is too shady for grass to thrive, but I wanted to have a small, soft green space where my toddler nieces could play when they came to visit. The yard is dominated by a large black walnut tree, the roots of which are toxic to many other plants, so it was not altogether clear what would survive back there. My landscape designer and I decided to hedge our bets and set up a "survival of the fittest" scenario between several different ground covers, which were planted in the fall of 2002: dwarf mondo grass, creeping jenny, and mazus reptans.

The dwarf mondo grass stays evergreen in my climate, does not need trimming, and where it is packed closely together, I'd give it about a 4 out of 5 for being weed-free. However, it barely spreads at all, making it cost-prohibitive to fill more than a few 1' x 1' patches of the yard with these plants. If cost were not a factor, I might fill the whole space with this. It's not yet clear to me whether these tiny grass plants eventually die out in the center and require dividing or replacement like other grasses; so far so good though.

The creeping jenny got off to the fastest start, quickly filling in large gaps in just one season. However, I was very disappointed to discover that it has no, nada, effect in supressing weeds. Its stems lay on top of the ground rather loosely, which I guess allows both seeds and sunlight to penetrate. It grows so quickly that it would undoubtedly be pretty invasive in a bed with other plants. In my yard, it's growing between brick retaining walls, so I don't worry about that too much. Where it has gone astray (e.g., over stepping stones) it's pretty easy to yank out.

The mazus reptans got off to a disappointingly slow start for me for the first year, staying in tiny clumps. In its second year, it spread much farther, but didn't do so much with respect to suppressing weeds. But this third year, it has finally come into its own in terms of both coverage and weed supression. Its stems are now knit together tightly in low-growing mat; like the mondo grass, I'd give it about 4 out of 5 in terms of weed supression. My only disappointment with the mazus is that it browns out in the winter, though the bright green (plus small purple and white flowers) return with a vengeance in the spring. I never trim this; where it creeps too much over the flagstones I occasionally push it back with my foot, and it stays in place for quite a while.

I agree that the books make lawn alternatives out to be much easier than they are. I'm happy to report, however, that my nieces love the soft play space in an area where grass was not an option.

Kate

Nothing in life is ever perfect. Groundcovers included. My experience is perhaps more limited than that of many of you, but Lamium "White Nancy", Vinca, Pachysandra (the plastic kind, ;) ), Galium odoratum, Asarum europeum, and Epimedium have performed reliably for me with minimal weeding required.

My own experience suggests that neighboring plants that reseed prolifically are more of an issue than "weeds". I perpetually dig out Iris sibirica volunteers from the Vinca, but they're easy to identify and are always a hit at plant sales.

I second the use of Hostas. Man, nothin' can really get a toehold under those babies... god bless their cotton socks. Ditto a really nicely established fern bed... . Following the volunteer appearance of Asarum in the adjacent fern bed I've decided to foster it... I've also had nice results combining Asarum, Epimedium, with Hostas. About as "basic" as it comes, but what's wrong with vanilla cake and chocolate frosting?

A weed free ground cover is just as much of a problem in Hawaii as it is for the rest of you. But believe it or not I have found one that fits Nandina's wishes of no maintenance and no weeding. It is not going to be a big seller though and needs the dry tropics. I have 2 beds of Aloe vera, one on a slope along my drive that is 8' deep by 30' long and another of similar size on the front face of the same slope. They are not on the irrigation system and survive/thrive on our annual rainfall here on the leeward side of about 12 to 14 inches annually.

I did have to weed them a bit even with a woodchip mulch applied first as they filled in, about two years of our winter rains, but after that they are so thick nothing can grow between them and since they get no additional water there is little that will germinate in them the rest of the year when there is no rain. The no extra water/irrigation is one of the main keys to the no weeds.

Once a year I may trim them back from the driveway and I remove the finished dried flower stalks after their winter blooming period. No water worries, no trimming of the plants for height, no fertilizer, no bug spray and no weeds. They tend to form tight clumps as opposed to spreading far so I do not consider them invasive. When I needed to remove a third bed for the nursery the rhizomes just sit on top of the ground and they come right up.

While I find them attractive, I am in a minority and it isn't something that many people are willing to consider using here. I get teased about them on a regular basis at the local nursery.

ilima

The ones that I have had the best luck with are:

-Geranium sanguineium
-Euphorbia amygdaloides robbiae 'Mrs. RobbÂs Spurge'
-Epimedium
-Juniperus conferta 'Blue Pacific'

I think one of the reasons these work so well is because they are a little taller than the creeping groundcovers (typically 1 ft) and thus shade out smaller weeds.

I've also had reasonable success on a small scale with Mazus reptans and Veronica 'Georgia Blue'.

Have been very disappointed in Vinca, Ajuga, and Lysimachia as groundcovers.

Just thought of another ground cover that has worked REALLY well for me--sarcocca. It came with the house--so don't know what variety I HAVE--but given the height--I'm pretty certain it's Sarcocca hookeriana.

ANYHOO--awesome, weed-free groundcover, and the deer leave it alone. The scent is intense when it blooms--and while I like the scent, not everyone does.

My patch is encroaching on the hellebores planted next to it. Don't know if hte hellebores can't hold their own because the sarcocca is too much competition, or because they are unhappy since we took down the silver maple that was shading that bed, but there you have it. The sarcocca is winning.

melanie

I just stumbled upon this & thought I'd add it: a new cultivar of ardisia japonica.

Here is a link that might be useful: Midgee Dwarf Japanese Marlberry

I've seen that plant up close and personal--it's cool. And the berries are lovely. AM planning on working it into my landscape SOMEWHERE. (Plant collector that I am.)

melanie

I confess I've become a Hostaholic for the above reasons. While I am trying some areas with evergreen groundcovers like vinca, I'm beginning to realize that the hostas, though they die back in winter, provide really effective groundcover and survive with little extra watering in our dry summers. The advantage over an evergreen groundcover for me is that when the hostas do die back, it makes cleaning up huge amounts of fall leaves (which I shred and return as a more effective mulch) much easier and also easy to top off the beds with more compost or leaves. So I am now working toward a design which uses hostas to fill in around evergreen shrubs instead of using as much true groundcover.

Looking for a ground cover that:
1 chokes out weeeds
2 grows fast but can be controlled with minimum effort
3 produces edible berries or decorative flowers/berries
4 requires little or no water once established
Have limited knowledge on Ice Plant(small red flowers), Cotoneaster, Myoporum Parvifolium. Any suggestion? Is this approipraite post? Sunset zone 15/16

Just an FYI that Vinca, among other plants mentioned as groundcovers in these forums, is a non-native invasive species that is presently posing major problems in some areas of the US, so I encourage all of you who either are recommending it to others, or are contemplating planting it (or any other plant that spreads wildly), to check on line for info about the plants that are currently posing an environmental problem in your local region. There are many, and education within the gardening community is the best way to prevent them from spreading further. A link to some info on Vinca is below:

http://www.nps.gov/plants/alien/pubs/midatlantic/vimi.htm

I won't use vinca near woods. I've got both vinca major and ivy in the woods behind my house (not by me!). I'm doing my best to smother/ pull out both of them. A client near the river has vinca edging wooded areas, and it's really taking over. I hate to see how much farther it goes each year. (I'll confess- I've hit it with weed killer as best I can, but some of it is on a cliff I can't get to). It does beat out most of the small natives. Tree seedlings seem to grow through it ok though.

Oooh I have a question! I have a really big touble spot in my yard since it's on a slope and we get the rain runoff from the whole street right past my house and into the back, down the sloping yard, into the creek beyond.

The nextdoor neighbors driveway takes it in the front, but as it curves around in the back, we have really bad erosion problems where it dumps it into the back yard.

Issue 1:
A rock bed beneath the deck (I didn't put it there), on a 20 degree slope, takes the force from the gutter outlets of my own home, then adds it to the street water. The rocks just wash right out of it. It's obvious I need deeprooting noninvasive ground cover for shade that can withstand the force of the running water. There are a few other areas of my yard where the grass won't grow because of this, right up next to the house so it's a very big issue. Grass seed, like the rock, just washes out even with small rains. The last homeowner said he tried sod but it kept washing out too before it could take.

Issue 2: The street water runs off from the neighbors driveway, past and around an oak tree. I can't get anything to grow here since the run off washes out any seed that gets planted, and the tanins from the oak tree acidify the soil. Not to mention the fact that it's under a tree, I'd say at least partly shady.

Any suggestions? Building a fence or planting some sort of barrier is out of the question because of the tree and because the problem begins on the neighbors property which he has completely neglected and passed off to us (for maintanance at least).

Tomorrow I can take some pictures in case this is just too confusing to understand what I mean.

I don't know the botanical on this, but it has been a good ground cover for me in certian situations.

Weidelia is evergreen here, has cute little yellow flowers. It doesn't care if it gets watered after it is established, but it can take a lot of water if that is what it has to deal with. I have used it in flood and drought.

It will get nipped by freezing temps, but bounces right back. I have used my lawnmower to keep it in bounds. I do not have weeds in the places where we have put weidelia!

This is an excellent plant for erosion control.

Janie

destany, You should probably start a new thread about this, because I don't think this is a groundcover question.

For problem #2, you might consult with your town about the road runoff. SInce there's a steam involved, they might be able to help.

Otherwise, the idea is to divert the water away from your house, if you possibly can, by digging a trench that will lead it into a less-distructive path. You can't stop it, as you have noted, but you can certainly provide an alternate route.

Photos would help, but a plan view (map) might be even better.