Yes, my local post office still charges parcel rates for packages sent through the post office as opposed to the mail box.

emailing you yote.

Sue

Quite a while ago, I made up my own template, and I printed out the letter from the USPS person you (chemo) had posted, and the description of what makes something a parcel, etc. I take that stuff with me each time I go.

I only had to use it once, when I got "the grumpy lady" at the post office. I showed my stuff, she called someone else over, they deliberated, and I got the right price. That lady is gone, and I always get the very nice lady who knows me by name, and she charges me correctly.

I also often do my postage using my printer and my Paypal account, that is, when I have a working computer at home! (I don't right now :( ) so that avoids PO trips and having to hunt down the template.

The post master in charge of my local post office refuses to look at any information that I have copied. He insists that all bubble envelopes are packages because they are not uniform throughout. Even an empty bubble envelope is not uniform because of the crimping along the edges. All clerks are instructed to charge package rates and refer anyone questioning the rate to the post master.

How can I change his opinion if he refuses to even look at the copied regulations?

I no longer mail bubble envelopes there going instead to a neighboring suburb (where they charge correctly) or mailing in outside boxes.

Stagerat, that's great to hear that the grumpy old lady is gone and has been replaced with a very nice lady who charges you correctly.

He insists that all bubble envelopes are packages because they are not uniform throughout. Even an empty bubble envelope is not uniform because of the crimping along the edges.
He clearly is not aware of the Physical Dimension Standards, and sounds like a moron.

Per DMM 101 2.4 at the link below:

2.4 Uniform Thickness
Flat-size mailpieces must be uniformly thick so that any bumps, protrusions, or other irregularities do not cause more than 1/4-inch variance in thickness. When determining variance in thickness, exclude the outside edges of a mailpiece (1 inch from each edge) when the contents do not extend into those edges. Also, exclude the selvage of any polywrap covering (see 301.1.5) from this determination. Mailers must secure nonpaper contents to prevent shifting of more than 2 inches within the mailpiece if shifting would cause the piece to be nonuniform in thickness or would result in the contents bursting out of the mailpiece (see 601.2.3).

mws, if you will post the address and zip of the PO overcharging I would be happy to drop a copy of the Physical Standards for Flats DMM 101 2.0 in the mail to them, highlighting the part about the dimensions and thickness, and include a brief note.

If you happen to know or can get the name of the post master, that would maybe help 'get his attention' too.

If you aren't comfortable with posting the info here, feel free to drop me an email.

Sue

I don't have any problem being overcharged by the PO and never have. I mail directly from my house or office mailbox. I've only had one instance where someone received seeds with postage due. I responded to their email letting them know they should complain to their local PO. They did and have not had an issue since.

I think if more people would mail from home, they would avoid this problem. Granted, you won't get a "we were wrong to overcharge you" from the PO, but you won't be getting overcharged. That is the whole point isn't it? Two stamps will cover a large number of seeds and I very rarely have to use more than that. I do support Sue's suggestion of a home scale - that ensures you are putting the right amount of postage on for larger seeds trades. It's a minimal invest that prevents a lot of stress and wasted postage in the long run.

Diana

Sue, I talked to one of the tellers at the PO. She understands the rules and is working to get everyone on board here. I bought some cheap bubble envelopes here at the Dollar Store. They are 1/4" too large in the smallest dimension so she says she needs to charge me the extra. To solve that problem, I cut them in half now and tape the end shut. They're less than 4" x 6" once I do that. Must be why they were at the Dollar Tree, miscuts, seconds, etc. Sent three bubbies out last week for $0.88 each. A fourth one cost me $1.22, but it did have a lot of seeds in it.

Diana, That's great to hear that your PO has gotten it 'right' from the beginning.

I do support Sue's suggestion of a home scale - that ensures you are putting the right amount of postage on for larger seeds trades. It's a minimal invest that prevents a lot of stress and wasted postage in the long run.
Thanks...I have included a link below to a good ebayer for either a scale or bubblies. You have to watch though to see what the total cost would be with the purchase price and shipping costs. I really good price on the scale is $20 or less all total.

They are 1/4" too large in the smallest dimension so she says she needs to charge me the extra.
Token, I'm curious about what size they were before you cut them, thus why she needed to charge you 'extra'. For a large envelope, (1 OZ or less=88 cents) the max length is 15" and the max height is 12", and of course contents evenly distributed and taped in place so they will be under 3/4".

Sue, the packages say they are 6" x 9". I went back and looked at the website and she was still wrong. She was claiming that 6" is the limit. And mine were just over that in the shortest direction. It's so frustrating. BUT...by cutting them in half, I was able to mail three today with only $0.62 in postage. One had two packs of seed, the other had 6. One went to a city here in NC, another to somewhere in Michigan, and another to Missouri. The third package cost $0.88 cents and was the one going to Michigan.

I don't know where she came up with the sixty-two cents cost. But that's what I paid. I wasn't about to argue since it was less than I expected.

I went back and looked at the website and she was still wrong. She was claiming that 6" is the limit. And mine were just over that in the shortest direction.

and....

I don't know where she came up with the sixty-two cents cost. But that's what I paid.

Well it is certainly clear that she doesn't have a clue. Please post back here though if anyone tells you that all bubblies must go as parcels.

I too am clueless as to how she ever came up with sixty-two cents postage. I sincerely doubt if those bubblies were under 1/4" even when empty. I'll bet she never used the template to check them.

Errr...64 cents. My fault. Late night, I was excited to start my vacation. LOL!

No, she used no template. I've seen others use it though never on my packages.

Ok, I must add that one female employee I had not seen before, was clueless today when I went in to mail a rather large bubble envelope at the local PO in Austin IN. I 'knew' that it was a 3 OZ Large Envelope, because I had weighed it here at home, and checked the thickness with my Shape Based pricing Template as well, but wanted to have the postage on it in the form of the printed metered postal tape.

She put it on the scale, and told me the cost. I looked at the little screen showing the charges and saw Parcel, so I said, "Shouldn't that be a Large Envelope?" Her reply was that it was too thick. I told her she needed to check it with the Shape Based Pricing Template. She got the template and then proceeded to show me that it would not go through the 1/4" LETTER SLOT.

Give me a break!. DUH... I told her she needed to use the 3/4" slot, for Large Envelopes. You would have thought that it was her first day and she had never seen a bubble envelope or ever tried checking one with the template, using the correct slot. The template was folded in half, so it didn't slide easily through the slot, and she said, "See?" I grabbed the template from her, unfolded it, and dropped the envelope down through the slot. I picked the envelope up and dropped it down through the slot the second time, and asked if she didn't think it slipped through just fine. She agreed, removed the postage tape from the envelope, credited the wrong amount, and then charged the right amount. She was not happy with me, and she did not tell me to have a good day as I left.

Sheesh...After all the bragging I have done on all of the local postal workers who have gotten it right so far, she comes along and ruins their record of 'always' getting it right. I wonder if she will remember how to do it the next time I go in. I'll try going in within the next few days or so, and wear my shades, so she won't recognize me, and see if she remembers the training I gave her today. If she messes up again, I hope I don't 'go off' on her.

I've got the receipt showing the incorrect charge, and the credit and then the correct charge...I think I'll just send that off to the Postmaster General and let him know I had to train an employee today who evidently has been overcharging now for 2 years and 7 months.
End of rant

Sue

Also noting here I received in an envelopefrom (Kathy645) mailed from Nashville TN last week. It contained a paper list, a return address label and a few postage stamps. It was charged Parcel rate of $1.22....a 34 cent overcharge.

Good for you Sue!! That's what I deal with at our post office until I got a new clerk and she seemed to do it right. But she's not a regular employee at our PO. :( You are really helping me understand the postage facts--and how to make sure everything stays evenly distributed in the envelope. In several of the SASBEs I responded to people asked for 4-5 stamps and I'm sure that was too much postage on the envelopes, but it points out the widespread overcharging problem. Just a point of fact, tho, I'm in Lead, SD so it wasn't me from TN. But, I have been charged $1.22 a couple of times at the PO so I find it easier to drop it in my mailbox w/.88 and not argue/confront. Thanks for your persistence on this.
Kathy

Oh, you are right...it was connietn from TN that was overcharged and that I mailed to today. I've shuffled too many envelopes lately as well as making copies of them to get the overcharges verified.

hmmm...4 stamps is $1.76
5 stamps is $2.20

As you can see, that would cover a lot of ounces of seeds. Unless a member has a really really big 'Seeds for Postage Offer' and was sending a lot of different varieties, I don't see why it would ever cost 5 stamps, and seldom ever 4. You saw that I was able to send quite a few for a pretty minimal amount...maybe 88cents, but then most were small seeds and smaller quantities. I know it was a Large Envelope rate as opposed to Parcel anyway.

Large Envelopes (Bubblies under 3/4" thick, contents evenly distributed and taped in place)
Up to 1 OZ=$ .88
Up to 2 OZ=$1.05
Up to 3 OZ=$1.22
Up to 4 OZ=$1.39
Up to 5 OZ=$1.56
Up to 6 OZ=$1.73
Up to 7 OZ=$1.90
Up to 8 OZ=$2.07
Up to 9 OZ=$2.24

PARCEL RATES
Up to 1 OZ=$1.22
Up to 2 OZ=$1.39
Up to 3 OZ=$1.56
Up to 4 OZ=$1.73
Up to 5 OZ=$1.90
Up to 6 OZ=$2.07
Up to 7 OZ=$2.24

There were a couple members who were asking for excess postage, and then were just pocketing it, which is not allowed because that's like selling, which isn't allowed. If ever you suspect the postage is excessive, or you don't care to pay what is asked, just decline, (need not give a reason) or contact me via email and I'll give you my 2 cents.

Sue

I have only taken bubble mailers to the PO a couple of times as it's not the most convenient thing. I was charged $1.22 for a piece of paper and 3-4 seed packets. I usually mail from home and put 3 stamps on the bubble envelope because I am afraid it won't get to its destination on 2 stamps.

Noting here, just for the record...
I recieved in a .7 OZ flat flexible bubblie from
Williamsport OH zip 43164 and it was charged $1.05 which would be for a 2 OZ envelope....overcharged by 17 cents. It looks like the clerk either didn't bother with weighing it, or else their scale needs calibrated.

Noting also for the record here that a bubblie was received in from CA and the stamps were not cancelled in any way. The member's addy is Fresno, so it was likely mailed from a PO in that area.

I was over charged for a regular old envelope that was flexible that contained two small packets of seeds and a little paper around them, however, I have received several bubble envelopes that the seeds were not canceled on...so I would say the Universe some how seems to balance these things out. ;) Besides, I was only out a whopping 61 cents. Lol* I don't think I'll be heading to the poor house just yet.

Ya know I wasn't so bothered by this when I first read the post - but you bring up a good point. It sounds like this is a pretty regular occurrence, and if hundreds of people are being over charged by 50 cents here or there, that adds up to hundreds of dollars in unfair charges. :( Most people are probably like me and don't really care at first because it's only a little bit of change...they probably don't even know it until they start sending mail like this regularly. Well that just stinks. :(

It is really hard to say how many hundreds of thousands or more customers have been overcharged over the years since they started the shape based pricing structure. Consider all the members who write or get reviews at The Rate and Review forum and a lot of folks don't even post there. There are a lot of folks who trade but who never post on this side of the Seed Exchange or maybe anywhere else on GW. Think of all the thousands of ebayers and small time seed sellers or traders elsewhere on line and anyone who sells smaller things on line that have been overcharged.

A few years ago, I asked How many trades/sasbe do you do in a year? I was amazed and the volume of trades and seeds for postage offers folks did.

Sue

Noting here, just for the record...
I recieved in a .7 OZ flat flexible bubblie from
Williamsport OH zip 43164 and it was charged $1.05 which would be for a 2 OZ envelope....overcharged by 17 cents. It looks like the clerk either didn't bother with weighing it, or else their scale needs calibrated.

Ok, I called the USPS 800 reporting # 1-22-2010 and reported the above matter, asking that the overage be refunded to me....just so it would hopefully come to someone's attention. I was told someone would get back to me within 2 business days. Well, no one has called, and I sincerely doubt that anyone ever will. In the meantime, there is a clerk who is guestimating weights, or there is a clerk who has bad eye sight, or there is a scale that needs calibrated so customers won't be overcharged. Once again, the USPS does not care and can do as they darn well please.

The confirmation # on this report CA101094991...
end of rant, and just for the record here

Well, I avoid the USPS. I put two first class stamps on my small bubble envelopes and to my knowledge, I have never had a problem. I would check with people I send things to to sure they did not have to pay additional postage. If I use a #10 envelope and it is rather thick, I put two first class stamps on it. If it isn't thick, one stamp does it.

Well, I tooted my horn too soon. Got a bubble envie back from the USPS today for more postage!!!!!! It didn't work this time. Usually they are only an ounce and this was over an ounce and I believe that is what generated the return. They asked for 51 cents more!!!
I had two freedom stamps on it!
Que Sera!
Barbara/Perkybarb

They asked for 51 cents more!!!
I had two freedom stamps on it!
Ok...for a total of $1.39...They determined it was a Parcel too as opposed to a Large Envelope.

It is imperative to have the seeds and seed packets distributed evenly and taped to a piece of paper to avoid shifting and throwing it over the 3/4" allowance to go as a Large Envelope.

Good Luck in the future Barbara.

They are trying to pay off the fed deficit!LOL Makes you wonder how many thousands of dollare this adds up to for a year in the U.S.
Gwen

Knock on wood, I've not had trouble with any of our local post offices.

But ... I received a bubble envelope today from Sand Hill Preservation and a bubble envelope Saturday from Baker Creek. Both were the same size (0), and both contained a single packet of squash seeds (so neither was more than 3/4" thick). The metered postage for Sand Hill $1.05, while the metered postage for Baker Creek was $1.22 (and said "First-Class Parcel Rate right on it).

ok...adding more here, for the record...
from an email from queenofthemountain. CA

I saw the discussion about postage rates and wanted to let you know my Post Office charges the parcel rate for bubble mailers. When I have gone there to mail (usually 2-4 seed packets, taped in place) they charge me $1.22 or $1.39. Here is their info:
8587 Fenwick Street
Sunland, CA 91040-1953
(818) 951-0376
I think next time I will print out the Mail Prices page from the USPS Web site to take with me.

I suggested she also print out the Physical Standards for Flats (2.0 thru 2.4) and that she ask them to show her their First Class Mail Shape Based Pricing Template...PSN 7530-10-000-0765.
If they follow the instructions on the template and check for flexibility (print out that flex test) and see that it is uniformly think...show them the printout on that...then they should be on board.

I asked that she report back here with whatever she is told. Hopefully she can get them straightened out, as it is just 2 months shy of being 3 years that the public has been overcharged.

Sue