MY GOD!!They are sooo cute...

God I love bulldogs..My friend has 3....Yours is beautiful and yet tough looking...

Jodik, now that is what I call well-rounded out. Knowing how to take care of a family, a dog, and those plants..And knowing what you are talking about here too...Bravo..:-)

Thanks for everything and this thread!

Mike:-)

Mike, it's my pleasure to share what I've learned along the way... gardening is for sharing... otherwise, what's the point? Why grow beautiful plants and not share that with anyone? It makes no sense!

I've got a few years under my belt... I've lived a very diverse life, and I've done a lot of interesting things over the years... from milking cows on a dairy farm to driving a semi from coast to coast. Would you believe that I even kept a small plant in the truck? Yep... I had a little cacti on the dashboard! And my little Staffordshire Bull Terrier traveled with us! And, I've spent the last 14 years raising three stepchildren, and breeding American Bulldogs and Olde Bulldogges.

If you ever get a chance, take a look at a book called "Gladiator Dogs" by Dr. Carl Semencic... our kennel, our dogs, and pictures of my children are all featured in the Bull Breeds section!

I've been a plant lover and gardener for as long as I can remember... my Grandma grew beautiful gardens filled with peonies, bleeding hearts, and iris... and though the "green thumb" skipped a generation, even my Mom tried her best to grow plants.

The one thing I've learned along the way is that the "green thumb" is actually knowledge. And as our kennel tagline reads... Knowledge Breeds Success!

Wow....And I bet you are not a day over 25!!

I will take a look at that book..

A plant and dog on board..That is what I call finding a purpose on the job..:-)

I am surrounded by them here at work, at my gym,my home, and yes at my local market, all at my own doing..lol..
Yes, most in "Clay" pots too...

Talk about skipping generations. My mothers mom has always been awsome at growing plant, indoors..

My mother tries her best too, but always seems to fail..I gave her a "hummel jade" in a "clay" pot, and so far so good...I am hoping she get through a whole year without over watering just this one, easy to kill.
If she succeeds with this one, a true challange, then she can grow just about anything, in clay that is..
She has never kept anything alive in plastic for too long..

She likes you ALOT and tells me she has learned so much from this thread..We'll see..

If she succeeds, she will be taking this up as a hooby once again. Growing them in clay this time around..lol

Glad to have you as a garden web friend!

Mike

What an ADORABLE litter of Pups...they are super cute. I wish I could get my Pug a little brother or sister,lol...

Thanks for sharing!

Thank you... you flatter me! Actually, Mike, I now have 3 grandchildren, so I'm a little older than 25! I've been around for a half century! (Gosh, that makes me sound old!)

My Mom watered everything once a week whether it needed water or not... and she left her poor plants sitting in full saucers of water. She kind of tried, but was just too busy to make plants a priority.

I first learned about watering plants when someone told me to think about the soil ball like a kitchen sponge... it should feel damp and wrung out, not sopping wet. And once it dried out again, depending on plant type, then it was time to add water. I think your Mom will do fine... especially since she has you to help!

I think a lot of people kill their plants with kindness... and I've found that hovering leads to over watering. I spend a lot of time just looking at my plants, but not touching!

I think it's great that you surround yourself with plants! It's not only healthy, as plants help clean the air, but I always feel like they boost my mood! They give any place a "homey" feel... as opposed to that sterile, office feel of a place with no plants. I must have plants and dogs... it's an absolute in my life! I get depressed without one or both!

Thanks, puglvr1! They get cuter as time goes by! I wish I could keep them all, but I don't think that will be possible! It's a lot of work having puppies in the house, but it's also a lot of fun!

Your not kidding about killing plants with to much kindness...That is all I use to do before I got the hand slapped a few times here..lol

Thank God someone took the time to teach me right!

I in particular am starting to like succulents! Those things you can almost ignore, and then, go away for a few days, then water no matter how dry, and they do well anyways...They are not my worrisom plants. You hardly ever have to worry about them wilting if you should forget to water..lol

You are right about a homey feel...What a difference it makes when you put something green in a bare room..

Do you realize that I am going away next week, and I have 5 babysitters set up to water my plants..lol.
Written instructions for all...And then I have to take them out to eat for payment....Do we love our babies or what? The things we do. I have one friend willing to crawl out on my roof to water all my greenhouse ones..lol

Jodik, if I lived near you, I would probably buy one of those puppies!! They are so adorable...

Keep smiling....:-)

Hi Jodik, as I mentioned before, I got my very first amaryllis bulb from WM and it came as a kit(box), had 6"plastic pot, Peat that was hard as a rock, and the bulb. Needless to say, I am not using the soil and decided to use a clay pot instead and Al's gritty mix. Its in a 6" pot right now, and I've been watering it around every 3 days...do you think this is about right? We are still in the upper 70's to lower 80's during the day and upper 50's(lately low 60's) at night. I have it under some date palms where it receives a couple hours of early morning sun...and mostly shade in the afternoon. I also fertilize with a mild solution of FP every 6-7 days.

Does this all sound okay? Is there anything else I need to do? I really want to see this one flower...sorry for all the ??'s and THANKS so much for your help!
{{gwi:53799}}

Well, if I forget to say it next week, have a great time on vacation! :-)

Just be sure that all 5 plant-sitters are not watering the same plants on the same day! What a waterlogged disaster that would be!

That's the beauty of having mainly bulbs... I can water them before we leave to go see the kids and grandkids, and they'll all be fine for at least a couple of weeks. The bulb, itself, is a reservoir for moisture and nutrition, so the worst that will happen is I'll lose a leaf here and there.

The pups are still in the infant stage... but in a few weeks, they'll be incredibly adorable! My favorite age is when their eyes first open, and they begin walking and play fighting! All puppies play fight, but there's something really special about watching baby bulldogs!

Believe it or not, I've never had much luck with succulents. I think I probably killed them with kindness. I do currently have a little compot of cacti that I grew from seed, and they're doing alright. I've learned to put down the watering can!

I can't tell you how glad I am to have found GW... and in particular, this forum and Al and friends... they've all been so instrumental in my current growing success! It just goes to prove that you can, indeed, teach and old dog new tricks! ;-)

Jodik,

Here is the kicker...lol

I have a plant sitter for the plants I have at work, the gym, the golf club, the local market, my home, and the gym..lolol

I din't realize how much I would have to worry about them being watered if I left..Great..So much for more than a weeks vacation at any time...Now there is a job field that just might make someone alot of money..

Plant nannies..lol..Let alone pet nannies...

She's not ignoring you Nance - your posts just sort of overlapped. ;o) She'll be back soon and will find your questions.

YPA

It looks great, puglvr1! The bulb looks happy and healthy, and I can't wait to see pictures of your open flowers! The medium looks good, and I'm sure the roots are happy, too! My preference would have been to bury the bulb a little less deep, but it should be fine. I usually leave at least half of the bulb above soil level, but it's not a critical rule, or anything. You're fine.

As far as watering goes... that's something I can't really help you with... beyond giving you tips on how to check for moisture... and letting you know that a set schedule isn't always conducive to good root health.

Each potted plant will have its own requirement for watering, and this will depend on several variables... your climate, the weather (sun and wind), how much the bulb intakes, etc...

What I would suggest, is either checking the medium periodically by inserting your finger as far as you can into the medium... or by inserting the pointed end of a bamboo skewer into the medium at an angle, so the tip is somewhere near the root ball. Leave the skewer in place... and pull it out occasionally to check for moisture by pressing it to your cheek. If it feels damp and cool, there's still moisture in the medium, so hold off... and if it comes out dry to the touch, it's time to water.

Since your bulb is outside enjoying the sun and all that nature has to offer, your watering times will be a lot different than mine... my bulbs are grown exclusively indoors. Sometimes, the first inch or two of medium will feel very dry... but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's dry all the way through... there could very well be a good amount of moisture around the root area. And this is why careful checking of the medium is so important.

When the flowers fade, you'll want to begin a feeding regimen... the leaves will grow in earnest, and the bulb will need nutrition to "recharge" for its next bloom cycle. I usually feed a liquid houseplant fertilizer at half strength every time I water. This ensures a constant supply of food to the roots. I'm currently using MiracleGro liquid fertilizer.

As the scape grows and the flowers begin to open, you can take the pot indoors to enjoy... keeping the flowers out of direct sun will help them to last a little longer. Once they fade, however, you'll want to give the plant good sunshine, along with your watering and feeding regimen. This will help the bulb regain its energy and size.

I hope this helps somewhat... there's a boatload of information over at the Amaryllis/Hippeastrum Forum... and the folks there are very helpful!

Mike, I'm sure there are both plant and pet sitting agencies or services... but since I could never afford to pay someone to care for my plants and dogs, we take the dogs with us, and I just water everything before I leave.

Having Olde Bulldogges and/or American Bulldogs makes it difficult to find someone that can be trusted to handle the dogs... they can be aggressive to other dogs, and are extremely powerful... so, one mistake could cost a life, or at the very least, make an emergency vet visit necessary... and it's not easy to explain those types of accidents.

When it comes to plants, I'd feel a lot more comfortable if the plant sitter knew what different types of plants required... and not just dump water on everything whether it needs it or not.

I suppose there's money to be made in this arena, but it's probably more lucrative in the upper income neighborhoods!

Hi Al!!

Thanks so much Jodik!! I appreciate all the help and suggestions...I will post an update "if" it blooms for me
:o)

My pleasure, puglvr1... and don't worry; it WILL bloom! It'll be gorgeous! You'll see!

I back that up!!!

You should see Pugs plants! She tends to underestimate her ability to do so good with hers!

Saying your plants don't look that great, in particular your citrus, Pug, you are wrong, no matter what the CLM are doing to them....You have them beat with such beauty and heavnly full flowered and fruited trees as yours!

Oh, if only mine could look like yours..

Your bulbs will do just as great. You know why, you don't have to ever worry about a darn CLM touching them, I think, and you have Jodiks backing!!....;-)

Hope you are well Nancy..;-)

Thanks Mike...you are so Nice to say those things, I appreciate the vote of confidence. Will update on my
amaryllis. Hope you are doing well also! If your going on vacation...have fun!!

Thanks Jodik for your vote of confidence also!

I'm just being honest... you'll do fine. These bulbs are easy to grow as long as you remember a few key things... they hate wet feet, they can't take a freeze, and they need good care and sunlight to recharge after blooming.

Here are the newest pictures... Maia and family!

{{gwi:53801}}

{{gwi:53803}}

And a closeup of one tired little babe... what a yawn! It's a rough life, I know! The eyes are just beginning to open...

{{gwi:53805}}

OMG!! They are the sweetest little puppies EVER!! I want one so bad!! Thanks for the update photos!!

My pleasure! They get cuter every day!

God did I miss out on these cute pictures till today..

I want one Jodik!! Thanks so much for showing these..I love these pups!

Oh ya, I like clay and so do my plants....;-)

Mike..:-)

Happy Thanksgiving to all! When I count my Blessings, I count my gardening friends among them! :-)

Here are a few of my little blessings...

{{gwi:53806}}

{{gwi:53807}}

Have a wonderful day! :-)

You know this arugement falls apart as soon as you stop using plastic as a pot. Because that's all a clay pot can be....is a pot. plastic on the other hand can be hydroponics, aquaponics and aeroponics. A clay pot will still just be a clay pot. Of course roots follow where water goes or else my method wouldn't work. That's why those little root hairs get stuck in clay, their following the water. Remember this picture?

{{gwi:9133}}

Water doesn't evaporate thru the sides. It's captured and recycled. Plastic vs clay.

That salt build up with clay doesn't happen with plastic because the water isn't sitting around it's in motion passing over the roots over and over.

{{gwi:53808}}

As for the plants liking where their at? They like it just fine.

{{gwi:53809}}

We're not talking about hydroponics or aquaponics or aeroponics. We're talking about pots. Just plain pots. Hydroponics, or any method that keeps water in motion, is a completely different ballgame! You're not even in the same ball park!

Common sense dictates that unglazed clay would be a poor choice for use in a hydroponic growing situation. Therefore, the entire point is moot at the outset.

When a plant must be confined to a pot for longer than one growing season, unglazed clay is a better choice because of its hydroscopic properties. Roots need to breathe!

I actually prefer that water evaporates through the porous walls of my clay pots... it ensures that my bulbs won't sit in moisture longer than they need to.

The porosity of clay allows the excess salts an escape... through the pores of the clay pot. Where do you think the excess salts go when they're confined in plastic? Clay doesn't CAUSE salts to build up... it allows for their escape! And as they escape through the pores, you can actually see it.

The hydroscopic nature of plastic does not allow any excess salt build up to escape... it remains within the pot, but you don't see it because it doesn't adhere to plastic... it's trapped in the soil at the edges of the pot. And unless you flush that out occasionally, that's where it will sit.

Hydroponics, aquaponics, and aeroponics do not figure into this discussion, at all... you're using a totally different growing method to begin with! A clay pot is just a pot... and so is a plastic pot. But I'd rather use the clay because of its hydroscopic properties.

Hi Jodik,

Well its been two weeks since I posted the above pic of my Amaryllis and wanted to post an update...the flower is starting to open!! I will post again once its fully open. Thanks for all the tips...BTW, those puppies are super adorable!!
{{gwi:53810}}

The plastic containers that I get come from the manufacturer frequently without any drainage holes drilled.
Instead of drilling one or two large holes in the bottom I use a very small bit and drill dozens of tiny holes which provides adequate drainage, keeps the mix in and the creepy-crawlies out.

Given that plastic does not breathe like clay, would doing something similar around the sides of the container improve matters - or are there other factors at play?

Jodik, you couldn't have said or explained it any better!

Very good and thankyou..

"it remains within the pot, but you don't see it because it doesn't adhere to plastic... it's trapped in the soil at the edges of the pot."

Jodik, I use to see it actually..My soil always crusted over on top and at the edges of the plastic pots...I hated it...My water was more of the culprit than fertilizer...

You should see the salt build up on all the plants in plastic pots here at work....Hard crusted soil...

Kevin,

Why would anyone go though all that work with drilling holes all over plastic when you can just simply use clay?

Nothing beats clay, well, maybe there is something comprable, unless you are growing your plants like orchards...

I am starting to think that many use plastic because, simply, it's cheaper, and not just for convienance..No?

I am starting to think that many use plastic because, simply, it's cheaper, and not just for convienance..No?

You show me a self watering container design made of unglazed clay and I will take a look ;)

Wood containers are nice as well. Given that the exterior gets wet when I water I know they are breathing. They have the added advantage of not cracking every winter.

Clay is nice, but it isn't the only game in town ;)

Hi Mike

While have about 50/50 clay and plastic containers, there is no doubt that plastic is cheap and cheerful - if you suddenly find you need a few extra containers. As far as the drilling work is concerned, I find that with a high-speed drill and a tiny bit I can pepper a pot with holes in a little over a minute.

Kevin

Perfect one justaguy...:-)

Hope you are doing well. It is soooooo good to see you actively back again..You were very much missed!

Mike..:-)

Hi Kevin,
good point, that is if your drill still works...lol. Mine has been broken for months now and I'll admit, I have to lazy to go buy another..

Don't do this at home...
The other day I was trying to poke holes into tiny plastic containers to root some jades, and I poked so hard, that the knife went through the plastic container right into my hand..2 stitches I needed..;-( Obviously a bad idea..lol

I suppose having many drilled holes is better than the "one" put at the bottom of most containers, or like you said, none at all..

You are right by the way,I always seem to have extra plastic ones laying around, but never clay..lol

Take care,

Mike...;-)

Great growing, puglvr! Your bulb looks wonderful, and I really like the Adenium behind it! That is some trunk! It won't be too much longer, and that Hippeastrum bud will pop open... can't wait to see it fully open!

As far as drainage holes go, I believe one is sufficient... although, I guess it might depend on what you're growing. An orchid, for instance, would prefer a lot more aeration in the form of slits and holes in a pot... but orchids are more epiphytic, so...

I really don't know what a dozen drainage holes would accomplish that one won't... depending on the type of plant and the medium you're using. Al could explain it a lot better, I'm sure.

I think people use plastic for a variety of reasons, really... it's cheaper, lighter in weight, more available, and a lot of people don't know about the advantages of using unglazed clay. I'm sure many folks think a pot is just a pot, and if you're not a consummate container gardener, it might not matter.

In essence, the retail plastic industry has successfully melded into the gardening industry... and the consumer is faithfully spending money exactly where the industry wants.

I feel like we are all having a great conversation at a the round table.... The meeting of the minds..Good work everyone! I love this post!

Really, I too am curious about the drilling holes that Kevin asked about and a good explanation... Al?

:-)

>>> I am starting to think that many use plastic because, simply, it's cheaper, and not just for convienance..No?

For me, it's mostly b/c of price but there are definitely other factors.

I'm using cheap 15" plastic in younger trees and it's temporary -- I expect the trees to outgrow them and the local heat will destroy the plastic within 2-3 years anyway. By then, I'd consider my trees approaching my ideal size and what I'd choose for more permanent housing is probably not plastic, certainly not the cheap version.

However,
1) Clay is 3x the cost here: $8 vs. $25 for a 16" pot. I'm always at sales/clearances hoping to find good deals but TC is rarely marked down -- maybe for good reason ;-)

2) Clay is MANY more times the weight. I move the 30+ containers about 3x/year for ideal sunlight conditions. I also use a giant rolling shelf-rack and keep citrus on the top rack (about 7' high) which I wouldn't trust having top-heavy.

3) I'm not fond of the "buildup" look. I have several terracotta and the first time I watered their aesthetic appeal immediately diminished.

Local "wisdom" is clay will cook the roots the same, or more so, than plastic. That Adobe container article describing how clay was better b/c of the humidity impact was truly interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if people think it's true b/c the clay is so much hotter to the touch (which the article even mentions).

I couldn't water my annuals correctly in my larger TC pots but that was mostly training issue on my part since I was so used to plastic. In our heat, the packaged soils (peat based) I used in my TC pots became hydrophobic so quickly -- which you can't easily detect with skewers/meters unless you start digging around the soil. Not easy to do with a container full of low lying, leafy delicate annuals.

I know others mention freezing making them brittle, but not in my area and the sun just as much destroys plastic here.

Cebury,
those are exactly the kind of reasons I enjoy hearing why some use clay verses plastic!
To the point and complete honesty! No debate. Just straight to the chase..

After all is was this question that started the whole thread..

"I'm very curious to know what everyone prefers, and why they prefer it"

Thankyou for sharing! Good reasons for some to use plastic, I must say, although using "clay" is still in the best interest for our beloved plants, no matter how expensive or heavy..

Mike..:-)

Now that I have time to for one more thing..

Cebury, I think you may have opened a can of worms on this one....

"Local "wisdom" is clay will cook the roots the same, or more so, than plastic. That Adobe container article describing how clay was better b/c of the humidity impact was truly interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if people think it's true b/c the clay is so much hotter to the touch (which the article even mentions)".

Ouch....

:-)

The whole snit over the OP erupted because some couldn't differentiate between 'good for my plants' and 'good for me', and allow there was indeed an often mutually exclusive difference, thinking that conceding that there was a distinction somehow put them in an unfavorable light.

Nothing on Cebury's list indicates anything that might be better for the plant - so it's simply a list of his preferences or dislikes with no consideration of which material is likely to produce the more robust plants.

I disagree with the thought that clay pots produce warmer soils. Besides, since the statement doesn't mention container color, it's much too broad to be applied. Given containers of the same color though, there is no question that the soil in terra cotta pots will be considerably cooler on warm, sunny days than plants in plastic pots.

Al

And then there's the whole indoor/outdoor issue... I grow exclusively indoors, with the exception of a few ornamentals and patio pots full of annuals. I'm much less fussy about the annuals... and some are in plastic or that fake terra cotta, and others are in real clay. All of them are in regular potting soil. (I found two huge clay pots on sale for $9 each!)

Moving the clay patio pots in and out for the seasons is a back breaker! I struggle with the two largest pots, and I end up using the wheelbarrow or a dolly to position them every spring!

Indoors, however, I grow 99% of my plants in terra cotta. The majority of my collection are bulbs, with a few orchids and other "friendship" plants. All will eventually grow in Al's Mix... with the exception of some orchids, which will remain in bark.

If I were to grow my collection of bulbs outdoors, I'd choose larger pots, but they'd still be terra cotta. I'd still use Al's Mix, and I'd probably use those wheeled plant holders for the larger pots.

For me, indoors, a large pot is a 12" standard clay pot. A small pot is 2". So, there's also a size consideration. I don't grow trees or shrubs or citrus of any kind... well, actually... I take that back! The largest plant I have is a young banana tree. It's currently in a small plastic pot... mainly because I have to move it in and out in spring and fall. But everything else is fairly small by comparison.

Yes... once we got past the "convenience" issue early on, this became a very nice round table type of discussion! Please pass the carafe of coffee... and forgive me for eating all the chocolate cookies! ;-)

But seriously...

Oh, and I wanted to mention one other thing... I actually like the look of shabby chic, aged terra cotta! I don't really like the "new" clean look when I first purchase them... I think they look very interesting when they grow a little moss or get a bit stained over time. But then, I'm one of those shabby chic, eclectic type of people... I'd rather live in a mismatched, relaxed, lived-in type of atmosphere than a sterile, chrome and leather, glassy, OCD perfect type of place! I couldn't handle it! :-)

When the "build up" on the outside of a pot gets to be really noticeable, I wipe it or scrub the pot. I have noticed, though, that there's less build up since I'm using a faster draining medium.

Well if you want to "limit" your conversation to "pots" okay. Here's a pot for you.

{{gwi:39282}}

Here's one of my rules of water motion due to material a pot is made from. It only needs light to make it work. Two plastic containers that's all it is but it's about hot and cold. You can do it with plastic but not clay. It's a non electrical engine with no moving parts but the plant. There's even a name for this I heard somewhere. If you don't find that important now you will later. In fact it works so well I don't even bother to fill the bottoms anymore because by the end of the growing season the bottom part is filled with water.

{{gwi:53811}}

I've been growing this plant for years without taking it out of this Nanny Pod. What I call these types of containers. Since the thread stated Plastic vs unglazed clay I thought we were talking about what was possible not what we were "limited" to.

Well... given that the majority of us use an actual medium in our pots, and we grow in a more traditional way, I'm not sure how 2 liter soda bottles fit in.

With regards to hydroponics, plastic is the common sense approach. As I said earlier, clay probably wouldn't work, so the point is moot.

Now, if the question were what type of gizmo do you use for growing hydroponically, then we'd have a discussion. But I'm afraid I can't offer much to a discussion on hydroponics... I've never grown anything using that method.

Fact is, not everyone on this planet believes their plants are not growing optimally in plastic pots, so stop with the obsession to inform people that their plants are not doing the best they can. Give it a rest.

puglvr - if you've got a full pic of that desert rose, I'd love to see it. Thanks.

Also, georgeiii, you're using only diluted urine to provide nutes to your plants, nothing else, is that correct? Is so, pretty impressive results for something is freer.

Who exactly are you talking to, patann? And what exactly are you talking about?

When our paths cross, she has long had the propensity to stand on the periphery of threads I participate in and throw stones, offerings sagacities like "Just shut up", "Give it a rest", or other vitriol like you'll find upthread, never really contributing anything meaningful to the conversation. Undoubtedly, she's still miffed about the way her previous grousing was received on the Al's gritty mix mantra thread.

Fact is, not everyone on this planet believes their plants ARE growing optimally (I'm absolutely certain mine aren't); and those that do, just might be better in the end for the reality check.

Al

Haaa aah jodik I was going to ask that question myself. But here's an answer I wanted to give you. I've done hydroponics from the big to the small and it's another way to intelligence our way to the same pollution of the water ways. Something like clean coal. If you want to think of it as close to aeroponics because the roots are in an enviroment where there's moisture is in the air under pressure (slight but enough) where roots hang covered in running oxgen enriched water. That pressure aids in oxygen transfer into the plant. It's a growth chamber in a bottle. Scienits are doing this in the lab right now. i've done it with just two recycled plastic bottles one on top of the other. That's not a brag, I'm just lucky when it comes to this, I just noticed something. I'm lucky like that. But here and on Photobucket I have what someone once slightingly a "history" here. This idea is free. You don't need to send me anything. there's even pictures of every step, over what a five year period. And those are only the "B" pictures. the only thing i'm looking for is a chance to trade for seeds I don't have. Buzzsaw you have no idea what a daily vitamin and a bottle of piss can do for a plant.

I see, Al... I'm reminded of the old Chatty Cathy doll... you pulled a string on her back, and the same few epithets kept repeating, over and over.

Thanks, georgeiii, but I'll stick with medium, regular H2O, and a chemical fertilizer... in my clay pots.

Out in the gardens, I'll use the waste my animals leave behind... and as for myself, we have indoor plumbing now, so I'll use the commode! ;-)

Patann,

I also ask the same? Who are you talking to and what are you saying? If you are talking to my plants, then they very much disagree with you..:-)

No punt intended, but usually when someone has had enough of a conversation, they just get up and leave the table..
I for my part havn't had enough, so I will not give it a rest or walk away until I am tired of this discussion and being with my friends......;-)

Sorry you chose to stay for such a short visit...

Mike..:-)

I can't leave the table, mikey. The arrogance and egotism displayed on this particular Forum is too entertaining (and educational) to miss and I keep forgetting to not respond to the "experts."

but you don't actually respond. you just hurl nonsense without actually participating in the *discussion*.

You call others arrogant and egotistical for providing facts. Instead of stating a fact is wrong and explaining why it is so, you just make short, insulting posts and leave. Kind of arrogant and egotistical if you ask me ;)

The only imperiousness I see displayed is being directed at those involved in the current discussion. I'd like to know why you find it necessary to malign us, patann? What have we ever done to you?

If you only come here for the entertainment value, and to keep repeating your pattern of disparaging, one line remarks, perhaps you should think about choosing a forum where that sort of thing is acceptable and wanted.

Myself, I can tell the difference between scientific fact and egotism...