How about adding something about the importance of sending the size bubble envelope requested, not smaller and if possible not larger. The bubble envelope size that is requested is for a reason. The seeds fit in that envelope size and for the postage requested and usually will go for first class large envelope rate. I know that when I send the info for a BEAP I have used my digital postal scale, weighed the bubble envelope, the weight of the seeds, added to pieces of 8 1/2 by 11 inch paper to the scale and have everything all totaled to go for the first class weight. The reason I've added to pieces of paper to the weighing is one sheet covers the weight of the paper requested with the list of seeds on it, and the other one covers the weight of packing tape and label. When someone sends a smaller envelope than requested, the seeds can't fit for the amount of postage sent and the same thing can happen if a larger envelope is sent. Just in the huge BEAP post I made a few weeks ago, I've gotten quite a few bubblies that where either too small or too large and there wasn't enough postage to send all the seeds. Most times, a larger envelope will be OK, but not always. Another thing is the simple fact that it isn't necessary to send the bubble envelope inside another one to get the BEAP seeds. I've lost count with how many bubblies have come to inside a second envelope, even when I have given the following instruction.s "just address the bubble envelope to me, put everything inside that I requested, tape it closed and mail it to me. There is no need to but the bubble envelope inside another one to send it to me." OH, Just thought of another one. Figure out how to explain don't use the the tape seal on the bubble envelope to seal up the bubblie. Most times, they stick so well, that you can't get the envelope open and have to cut the bubblie to open it. If you just take it closed with package tape, it's much easier to open the bubble without cutting it to do so. I think it's scotch that is making bubble envelopes now with a shiny material now and if you seal that closed with their seal on it, there is no way on earth that you can get it open without cutting the bubble. Fran

JUST MY OPINION... I am not really in favor of leaving someone a favorable comment simply because they followed through in sending an SASBE in order to get seeds. To me, it's like praising someone for coming to the dinner table and eating my food. And if we leave positive feedback for those who send out their SASBE requests, then shouldn't it follow that we leave negative feedback for someone who doesn't follow through? If that was the case, I'd be leaving negative feedback for dozens of people, as I'm sure anyone who has offered seeds for SASBE would as well. Though it's frustrating to hold seeds for someone who doesn't follow through, I don't really think it's an important enough of a matter to leave negative comments over. The whole concept of posting comments regarding SASBEs has other drawbacks. Last spring I offered a lot of seeds for SASBE, and one in particular stuck out. When I had looked at the person's want list, I saw she was looking for hardy geraniums. I found a few odds and ends, small amounts of several varieties, so I packaged them separately and included them as well thinking she'd be happy with the additional surpise. I was quite taken aback when she emailed me after receiving the SASBE and told me that I needed to read the FAQs, that "10 or 12 seeds was not considered a sufficient amount of seeds" and she would be leaving me negative feedback. I was stunned. Fortunately for her, she didn't leave the comments, or I would have responded with words including "ignorant", "selfish", and "ungrateful"... (Can you tell I'm still a tad steamed, LOL...) I think the sample comments for negative reviews are very good ones--Jack Webb of Dragnet would be happy with the "Just the facts, Maam" attitude. However, there are a few gray areas I am wondering about. What do you suggest regarding feedback if the trader sends mismarked seeds (ie, agastache instead of lavender); unviable seeds (such as sunflower seeds that were flat, white, and bendy, obviously underdeveloped); or a trader who waits until he/she has received the other person's seeds to tell them that he/she is out of several of the seeds they wanted and that they need to pick substitutes. I've always handled these matters privately. I know honest mistakes happen as in the first two cases--but the third example has happened to me a few times now (twice with the same trader--not going to trade with her again) and is starting to bother me as I feel it may be a bait and switch tactic. Still I'm not sure I'm comfortable about leaving negative feedback even in that situation. I'm sure it sounds as though I am focusing on the bad side of trading/SASBEs, which I am, but it's only because good trades and positive feedback are pretty self-evident. Kate

Soilent Green, I agree with about want lists having an updated date on it. It is very helpful to know when looking at a list. I have one on my trade page and change the date as I update my trade page for trading, which I usually don't start doing until then end of October every year. At the same time, I continue to add seeds to my list as I have them available for the upcoming year, but leave the old updated date until I am ready to trade. That doesn't stop people from emailing me for trades with a date that is 6 months or more old that states when the trade list was updated. As for wasting time pursing trades with people that are no longer trading or interested in trading, there are some members that do not like to be "cold emailed" from other members to do trades, especially with members that are new or fairly new to the seed exchange, or "cold emails" for trades from members that they have never traded with. They may still have trade lists posted that are old because they will have the same seeds available every year and they just leave the list posted and when they are ready to trade again, they post on the seed exchange about trading. I've been a GW member and trading seeds for more than 7 years now, and I, personally, don't "cold email" members for trades unless they are members that I have traded with in the past, trade with frequently every year, or a member that I trade specific seeds with every year and I let them know in advance of posting for trades and BEAP seeds on the forum, what seeds I have specific for them and what I'm looking for. As for GW deleting members have not be active in the last 2 years, that is not a good idea. GW has various forums on the site, and just because someone is not actively posting on the seed exchange forum, doesn't mean they don't post and participate in many of the other forums on GW. Some members just to private trades between certain members only and they leave a trade and want list posted for those specific members to see. Some people have their trade and want list posted and only do round robin trades, but leave that list posted for those on the round robin exchanges to see and use. And yes, there are some members that have trade and want lists still posted that have been banned by GW, have passed away and just are not on GW anymore. Expecting GW to try and figure out what members are and are not active on the seed exchange forum but are posting on other forums on the site, vs don't post at all, is really just a waste of time on their part. There are far to many members on GW and the time it would take is nothing more than a waste of time on their part. I suggest that if you have been wasting time trying to trade with people by sending "cold emails" to them, that you just work with the members that post on the seed exchange with trade offers, BEAP/SASBE offers and if you have seeds for trade on your own trade page, then post on the seed exchange yourself with the seeds you have to trade and what you are looking for. Experience has shown me that the easiest way to trade seeds is to use the seed exchange forum and the posts on the seed exchange form itself and to post myself with offers and what I'm looking for. There is always room for improvement on any site. And Welcome to the wacky world of seed trading. Fran

Seed trading is a wonderful hobby. It's an excellent way to acquire new garden seeds at a very economical cost, and friendhips between traders are always rewarding. Seed trading can help you fill your seed box quickly with many different seeds, and your garden will be more beautiful than you can imagine because of all the new and exciting varieties you germinate and grow from those seeds. ========================================== How do I start trading? You need to post that you have seeds available to trade. In your post you list your seeds or you ask people to look at your trade list on your GardenWeb member page. You may also add your "wish list" to your post, or add any special information that you would like your traders to know when they trade with you. ====================================== How do I do it? By trading your own seeds! You collect ripe seeds from your own garden, dry them, and remove the chaff if possible...some chaff defies removal. (For general information on how to save your own garden seeds please read the Seed Saving Forum FAQs, there's a lot of good info there and it's simply explained. Seed Saving is very easy to do. =========================================== Package the seeds into seperate labeled packets, and then offer them to trade. The suggested GardenWeb minimum seed count per packet is 24 seeds (two dozen). Some seeds are very rare, or are difficult to collect, or are weighty and costly to mail and because of these reasons you may wish to put less than 24 seeds into a packet. ALWAYS put this information in your very first post when you offer an "under-count" package of seeds. This way there's no "hard feelings" later on, if a trader knows exactly what they're trading for they will be content with their trade. Offer your seeds for trading only after they're made into packets. If you know how many packets of seeds you have to offer you can't "over-trade" them (arranging to trade more packs of seeds than you actually have made). Over-trading is one of the most frequent mistakes that new traders make! It is a major hassle to email someone and cancel a trade. Keep track of your seed packet count to eliminate this pitfall. Someone will ask to trade for your seeds, they'll suggest choices of their seeds to you (or maybe they'll ask you to look at their seed exchange list located on their GardenWeb member page). You tell them what you want to trade for and what you will send them in return. In you emails be very exact about what the trade is....haziness makes for confusion. Here's an example: I will send you these seeds: Crackerjack Marigolds Black-eyed Susans Blue Cornflowers Soldier Beans (12 seeds) In exchange you will send me: Pink Hardy Hibiscus Pony Tails Grass Morning Glory mix Balsam Impatiens mix (Notice that this is an even trade....four for four. Be a polite trader please. Don't ask to trade three packs of your seeds for seven packs of the other trader's seeds...that's greedy and rude. Seed traders are friendly, encouraging, and often quite generous.) Then you exchange addresses. If you can give a zip+four that's great....those extra four numbers help your trade go through the mail very fast. You print a copy of the trade for your records, or save it into a notebook. It's YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to keep track of who you are trading with. An easy way to do this is to printout the address correspondence and write on it the day you mailed out your envelope. Save your correspondence in a brightly colored pocket folder. Keep it by your computer and never walk it out of the room!!! If you don't have a printer you can keep track of your trades by writing down the info in a spiral notbook. Use one sheet per trade/sase. Write down the email of the person you're mailing to, what was sent and what is expected in return, and write down the day it was sent. An excellent suggestion is to put a piece of long ribbon through a ring-hole in the spiral binder and TIE IT TO THE COMPUTER TABLE so it can't disappear. When the seeds come in you can look up right away who they're from and send a THANK YOU via email. Then draw a line through the page to indicate that it has been completed....now you're done! I save my "address" emails to a folder in my inbox that I've created called "seed trades". When the seeds come in, I pull up the corresponding letter, and I hit the "respond button" and I say, "thanks, I got the seeds!". Once you say THANK YOU your responsibility is done....all GOOD TRADERS acknowledge the reciept of the other trader's seeds and say thank you. You can then delete the email or move it to another folder called "completed trades". After exchanging addresses you can mail your seeds. The seed packs are carefully wrapped with bubblewrap and placed in an envelope or you can use a padded mailer to send them. You need to cushion them in fat packaging so they don't go through the PO's automatic mail sorting machines. Always make sure that your email address is included with the seeds. If the trade needs to contact you later on the email address is right there for them to use. The post offive will charge a bit more for mailing a fat letter, it is because the letter gets out-sorted into "hand-mail". It's too fat to go through their high-speed mail sorters. The width should always be over a 1/4" thick to keep a letter out of the mail-sorters because these high speed machines will crush the seeds to powder. Bummer. It's courteous to let your trader know when their seeds will be on the way. If you've promised to mail on Monday, but something happened to delay that then email the trader to let them know when the seeds will be mailed...and keep that date! When the other trader's seed arrive look at your saved correspondence about the trade. Open the envelope and check to see that everything is just as promised. If there's a minor glitch (perhaps the wrong seeds were sent or something wasn't included) then when you email your trader to say "thanks for trading" let them know of anything that was amiss. PLEASE do this in a friendly and cordial manner, sometimes we all can get distracted by real life when we're packing our seeds to mail. Keep the the tone friendly, encouraging, and light, and suggest to the trader that on your next trade they can include the forgotten pack of marigolds. Keep everything in perspective...we're just trading seeds....not maseratis or stocks and bonds. Once you've said a "Thank You for Trading" you're done with the trade. Store your seeds where they'll be safe and dry until you sow them, and dream and plan for your new garden and future trades. ===================================== Can you show us an example of a good trade post? Okay.....Let's pretend that "Gardener_Jane" has made a post that she has seeds to offer for trade. The following is her post: Here's my list! All these seeds came from plants that were winter sown or reseeded in my garden. They are all hardy, beautiful, and easy to grow. Perennials Aquilegia (columbine, grape colored flowers) Aquilegia mix (columbines, nice selection from my garden) Asclepias Incarnata (swamp milkweed, pink flowers, will grow in dry dirt) Campanula Latifolia (mountain bells, purple flowers) Campanula Medium (cnaterbury bells...nice mix) Coreopsis Mix (1'-2' mix of strong golden flowers) Hibiscus Militaris (halberd leaved marshmallow) Inula Helenium (inula) Pennisetum alopecuroides 'Moudry' (fountain grass "black moudry") Tanacetum Parthenium (feverfew) Tanacetum Vulgare (common tansy) Vernonia Gigantea (giant ironweed) Annuals Cerise Celosia (celosia...candle type, cherry pink flowers) Cosmos Sulphureus (bright lights cosmos) Daneborg Lace poppy (papaver somniferum, red and white flowers) Morning Glories (lavender) Nicandra Physaloides (aka shoo fly, apple of peru, black pod) Nicotiana Rustica (aztec tobacco, greeny-yellow flowers) Nigella (blue flowers, nice for drying...weird pods!) Veggies and Herbs Italian Parsley Bok Choy Ruby Beets Bright Lights Swiss Chard Soldier Beans (12 seeds per pack) I'm looking to trade for other flower varieties I can Winter Sow in my zone seven garden. I am also interested in growing oriental veggies, ornamental grasses, and roses from seeds. I usually mail seeds out within 48 to 72 hours after making a trade, and I send my seeds protected with bubblewrap. I'd like you to do the same for me please. If you need to make other arrangements all it takes is an email...I'm very flexible. Thanks for looking at my list! Gardener_Jane ============================= Great post Jane ;-) Let's break it down: "Here's my list! All these seeds came from plants that were winter sown or reseeded in my garden. They are all hardy, beautiful, and easy to grow." Jane gives some vital introductory information. Her seeds are hardy for winter sowing, and she says they're lovely and easy to grow. ----------- The list: Perennials Aquilegia (columbine, grape colored flowers) Aquilegia mix (columbines, nice selection from my garden) Asclepias Incarnata (swamp milkweed, pink flowers, will grow in dry dirt) Campanula Latifolia (mountain bells, purple flowers) Campanula Medium (cnaterbury bells...nice mix) Coreopsis Mix (1'-2' mix of strong golden flowers) Hibiscus Militaris (halberd leaved marshmallow) Inula Helenium (inula) Pennisetum alopecuroides 'Moudry' (fountain grass "black moudry") Tanacetum Parthenium (feverfew) Tanacetum Vulgare (common tansy) Vernonia Gigantea (giant ironweed) Annuals Cerise Celosia (celosia...candle type, cherry pink flowers) Cosmos Sulphureus (bright lights cosmos) Daneborg Lace poppy (papaver somniferum, red and white flowers) Morning Glories (lavender) Nicandra Physaloides (aka shoo fly, apple of peru, black pod) Nicotiana Rustica (aztec tobacco, greeny-yellow flowers) Nigella (blue flowers, nice for drying...weird pods!) Veggies and Herbs Italian Parsley Bok Choy Ruby Beets Bright Lights Swiss Chard Soldier Beans (12 seeds per pack) Janes list is organized well, it's in ABC order, and she's included both the common and botanical names of the plants. -------------------------------- "Soldier Beans (12 seeds per pack)" Jane lets us know that this seed pack contains just a dozen seeds because the count is under the GardenWeb suggested miniumum seedpack amount of 24 (two dozen) seeds. ----------------------------- "I'm looking to trade for other flower varieties I can Winter Sow in my zone seven garden. I am also interested in growing oriental veggies, ornamental grasses, and roses from seeds." Jane has suggested what she would like to trade for. She does NOT state that she is ONLY LOOKING FOR THOSE SEEDS so she may be open to other suggestions....you can still initiate a trade even if you don't have what she's looking for and she'll either say yes or no. Never take a trade decline personally. Jane may have a small garden so she only has room for her favorites. ----------------------------- "I usually mail seeds out within 48 to 72 hours after making a trade, and I send my seeds protected with bubblewrap. I'd like you to do the same for me please. If you need to make other arrangements all it takes is an email...I'm very flexible." Jane is letting us know what she does and what she expects. -------------- "Thanks for looking at my list!" Okay....Jane is friendly and she seems to know how to trade. Initiating a trade with Jane will be a good trade experience. =========================================== I don't know the botanical names of my seeds, what should I do? Just make a well described list, that's all. Blue Bachelor Buttons Pink Cosmos Black-eyed Susans 3'annual plant with pink trumpet flowers, likes sun, pretty! Yummy Canteloupes from my Dad's garden Bush Tomato, meaty, sweet, not too acid That's a nice list! ===================== ===================== I see some traders offering seeds for SASE. What's a SASE? A SASE, for those who might not know, is a S - Self A - Addressed S - Stamped E - Envelope You put your own address in the "to" position and the seed sharer's address in the "from" position. The sharer will tell you how much postage is needed. Don't worry if you don't have the exact amount because the stamps you have on hand value a few pennies more. The post office is always delighted to have another nickel ;-) And for 5 cents or so you don't have the hassle of delaying sending out the SASE. Always try to mail SASEs quickly. The sharer is waiting for it to arrive. Whenever someone offers seeds for SASE you email them for the details....no SASE offer is ever the same....and I don't just mean that the seeds are different. What I mean is that everyone who shares their seeds has their own style, and whatever the seed provider suggests is what you should do. There are some standard things that you should always do with a SASE offer. Always write the name of the seeds you are requesting and your email address on the inside of the SASE flap...DON'T seal it! (I've done that a few times, lol.) When the person who shares their seeds gets your SASE s/he will see the list written on the inside flap and know what to put in. The folks who share their seeds do enough work, they shouldn't have to also look up the correspondence to figure out what to put in the envelope. Some seed sharers will ask that you include a piece of bubblewrap, or they'll ask you to use a padded mailer, or they may have the bubblewrap on hand and you don't have to provide it.... or whatever else. There's a lot of differences between traders so their will be lots of differences in the way they share their seeds. Always follow their instructions and provide your email address with the list of seeds you're requesting and you'll get your envelope returned quickly to you. ------------------------ Seed Trading is fun and very easy to do. Please check this FAQ again in the future, I will be editing it and adding more info as I can. The emphasis for the FAQ will always to be making seed trading more fun, more encouraging, and as ALWAYS, with everything associated with Winter Sowing, it should always be EASY TO DO!!!! Good luck with your trades! Trudi Davidoff