Did you and I have a conversation earlier this year about Play Ball, E? If you can't find Turface, Play Ball should be more readily available at a lesser price because, I believe, it's mined and processed in OR. When I looked at the specifics of it, it was superior to Turface in almost every significant category.

Al

I am using Play Ball and like it very much. It is available in both the larger towns nearest me and the supplier to them is in Oregon. Al

Turface is available in Portland at Hobbs & Hopkins, 1712 SE Ankeny, south of Burnside.

Looks like you found something better anyway!

.... and the OP found her Turface via a bit of serendipity, through a friend of her husband.

Al

al-

the makers of turface should definitly give you a nice fat check- lord knows how many bags of turface readers of this forum have bought on your recommendation (myself included).!

Oh - it's not just this forum ..... Turface is a superb soil ingredient/amendment, so I recommend it highly whenever I think it's appropriate. I grow quite a few plants in 100% Turface, and I've come to expect better results in Turface alone than I could achieve in most bagged soils. In spite of my efforts and recommendations on Profile's behalf, I'm very certain they don't have a clue that I even exist. ;o)

Al

if you dont have any objection, I will email them and tell them. maybe i can convince them to send you a few bags by way of a token thank you

Hey Wormgirl, did the guy at Profile tell you Turface Allsport was the same as Turface MVP. If he did, either he doesn't know what he is talking about or they have very poor quality control. I bought 4 bags of Allsport and it is about half the size of Tuface MVP. It is the same stuff but is smaller particle size. Which Al said was to small for container use. :(
I think Allsport is one of the other Turface products like, "Pro-League" or "Field and Fairway".

Just curious if anyone else has compared the two. I wished the Allsport was the larger particle size since it was $7.50 a bag and I paid $20.00 for the Turface MVP. One other note, the John Deere store I went to usually only sells by the pallet load. Luckily, I stopped by when they had broken up a pallet for a high school purchase.

Yeah rad7 - that's what he told me. Weird. Mine measures from 1/16th to 3/16ths of an inch - it starts about the same size as the #8 silica I got. It *seems* right, but I've never seen MVP. I will have to seek it out and compare the two.

I just picked up 2 more bags today, and they told me that a bonsai grower had been in yesterday buying it.

Fred Meyers and various Oregon nurseries sometimes carry Turface as "Profile Clay Soil Conditioner" repackaged in slick plastic bags by Schulz. Wal-Mart used to carry the Schulz bags. Smaller bags repackaged by Schulz, labeled as "Aquatic Soil", is sometimes available at Wal-Mart, Fred Meyers, Home Depot, etc. Johnson Creek Rental in Portland may still carry Turface "MVP".

Play Ball may be available from Concentrates, on 8th Ave. I got some "Axis", at Portland Nursery on Stark street. While Turface is fired clay (ie., sort of minature bricks made from something like kitty litter), Axis & Play Ball is fired diatomaceous earth. If I recall correctly, Axis was slightly more fragile and dusty than Turface. Axis is slightly cheaper in Oregon than Turface, because it is mined in Nevada. I have never tried Play Ball, but I was told that it is finer than Axis (Axis is similar to Turface MVP in size). Elsewhere I read that Play Ball is available in 2 sizes; one a useless dust or fine sand, another similar to Axis. I don't know which to believe. Heck, I may have even read that Axis is available in two sizes; one like very coarse sand, another like Turface MVP (which is the Axis I got). Some orchard and aquarium stores carry a product similar to Axis; way too expensive because it is imported (from Australia ?).

Sunmark Seeds, In Troutdale, has Diamond Pro in sacks and a bulk pile. Diamond Pro is similar to Turface; but a different company & a different clay quarry. I never tried Diamond Pro, I just e-mailed Sunmark a few years ago to inquire. Pro's Choice (yet another equivalent to Turface) may still be available in Southern Oregon (Eugene) and Northern California. I never tried Pro's Choice.

Auto Parts and Hardware stores may carry oil absorbant. One type is made from fired Diatomaceous Earth (usually made by EaglePicher, the same company that makes Axis & Play Ball). Another type of oil absorbant is made from fired clay. Oil absorbant clay is fired at half the temperature that is used for Turface (= Profile), Diamond Pro, or Pro's Choice; so oil clay is more fragile than Turface or competitors. I don't know if oil absorbant diatomaceous earth is fired at the same temp as Axis or Play Ball. Still other types of oil absorbants are probably useless for us.

Kitty Litter is fired at an even lower temp than oil absorbant clay, or not fired at all, and is probably a different type of clay, and falls apart in soil quite quickly.

A type of Zeolite is quarried in the Pacific Northwest; in northern Utah, Southern Idaho, Colorado, Alberta, British Columbia, and a little in Oregon (plus a little in Arizona and Texas). I think that it should compete with Turface in our neighborhood since Turface (and its competitors) is mined in the American southeast, and uses a lot of energy to fire and transport. But I don't think that zeolite has caught on yet for gardens (last checked a few years ago). The cheapest source is from Farm & Feed stores as "Sweet PDZ" (about half the price of Turface!); used to deodorize poop in horse stalls. PDZ comes in two forms: powder (you don't want this) or granular (this is what you may wish to try). The latter is about 16 to 40 grit (peaks around 20 grit), which is like a very course sand. Al may think that this is too fine (?), but I think it is OK. I screened out about 1/5 to 1/4 of the finest fraction of the bag (put it in the garden soil) and the coarsest fraction goes into the pots. Next time I get it, I think I will skip the screening -- too much work. You can get coarser zeolite (slightly larger than turface) from aquarium stores -- way too expensive. Zeolite acts as a sponge for ammonium, potassium, calcium and magnesium -- releasing these just as the plant needs them as the plant acidifies the soil. Zeolite retards acidification of soil (acting like dolomite lime). In other words, Zeolite is a better cation exchanger than Turface; while Axis isn't even a nutrient sponge at all. Zeolite is available in 8 to 20 grit (equivalent to Turface), but I found the minimal order and transportation cost from Utah to be too much.

How do I know all this? I thought that at $20 a bag, "Profile Clay Soil Conditioner" at local nurseries or Fred Meyers was too expensive. When the season ended, Freddies would offer it on "sale" for $12. When our local Wal Mart discontinued it, it was on sale at $8. Still too expensive!! So I tried to look up all potential replacements from kittty litter (don't try it!!!) to zeolite to Axis to Pumice.

About pumice: much cheaper than Turface when found in bulk from several "bark and landscape" stores. Cheap bulk potting mix, from bulk landscape supply stores in Oregon, often contains about 10% Pumice; the largest pieces of white pumice (about marble size) are easily seen in the piles of mix. Screen and keep the middle half for pots (about 1/4 is too large and 1/4 is too small). Screen in a tub of water because the dust is really nasty (and scratched my eye glasses too!). It is hard to find cheap pumice in Oregon that is prescreened into any fraction similar to Turface; while several types of specific screened Perlite fractions are available in four cubic foot bags at Oregon nursuries. Pumice is heavier than perlite; only about 1/10 floats while almost all Perlite floats. Because of floatation, I gave up on Perlite after trying only one small bag. Pumice is quarried in Oregon and Northern California, so energy cost of transport is low and no energy cost to fire (LOL, Pumice was pre-fired by nature). In contrast to Turface or Zeolite, Pumice (like Axis & Perlite) is not a sponge for cationic nutrients.

By the way, I just noticed that you live on the coast, not in Portland. I live in Newport. So I have seen Turface (in the Schulz bags) in nurseries in Corvalis, Albany, and Salem.

In Albany, I found yet a third "equivalent" to Turface. I don't recall the brand so I didn't look it up on the internet, nor have I tried it. It has gray granules, while Turface is tan.

Thanks to the thread below, I now recall that the "third equivalent" to Turface is made by Espoma.

Here is a link that might be useful: substitute for turface mvp

LOL, I just found the Axis thread.

Here is a link that might be useful: Axis thread