Growing citrus in plastic pot in patio on East side

11 years ago

I only have a tiny patio with a 2x3 feet garden where underneath it is tree roots from 20 years ago when the land was oak and pine tree farm. Those roots are still turning up clay soil. Most of my plants are in containers. I bought 20-24 gal plastic pots for my citrus plants a few months ago because the citrus have been in grower's pots for too many years. 1 or 2 of the citrus didn't have much roots, so I put them in a guesswork mix of compost + handful of Miracle Grow potting soil + gravels, and line 2" of the pot bottom with gravels and pebbles. I have 2 Kumquats (new this April), 1 grapefruit, 1 Meyer lemon, 1 mandarin, and 1 Satsuma. Since my potted plants are on concrete in a patio that has sunlight all day, I need my plants to be in moist growing medium so they won't die like my beautiful ficus did many years ago. The TX heat actually dried up the roots of my ficus.

Right now my Kumquats are having patchy yellow leaves. One of them has yellow patches with brown squiggly lines inside some of those yellow patches, or pale spots inside yellow. The other one has yellow leaves too, but more leaves turned yellow in a different way after I sprinkled Peters 20-20-20 on the mulch that is above the mixture of soil/compost/gravels. I did that because my plants are very weak looking and I guess the rain water that we've been having has washed away all nutrients in the soil mix. The application of fertilizer helped turn the leaves on my Meyer lemon green from yellowish light green. However, my Kumquats looked even worst. They had red mites on them before, but don't see them any more. May be the swamps of ants ate them? How can I bring my Kumquats back to health? What is wrong with them? Should I add sand to my soil mix? The 2 plants that have new leaves are on plant trollies, so I'm guessing it could be the heat. That heat we're having almost dried up my tomato plant in 1 day. Thanks for any input.

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Comments (7)

calistoga_al ca 15 usda 9
11 years ago
You have listed several problems, but all of them have been addressed in this forum, most of them many times. What you are attempting is perfectly possible. Al
tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
11 years ago
Maybe the link below will be helpful.

Al

Here is a link that might be useful: This should provide a good starting point for you ....
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"Over-potting" is a term that arises from a lack of basic knowledge about the 3-way relationship between plant material/ soil composition/ container size, which together logically determine appropriate container size(s). It's often parroted that you should only move up 1 size in containers when "potting-up". The reasoning is that the soil will remain wet too long and cause root rot issues. Of course, that's true if you're growing in a heavy, inappropriate soil, but it can be remedied by changing the soil to one that drains freely. The size/mass of the material and soil type/composition determine both the upper & lower limits of appropriate container size. Plants grown in slow soils need to be grown in containers with smaller soil volumes so that the plant can use water quickly, allowing air to return to the soil. This (smaller soil volumes) will cause plants to both extend branches and gain o/a mass much more slowly. Rampant growth can be had by growing in very large containers and in very fast soils where frequent watering and fertilizing is required - so it's not that trees necessarily rebel at being potted into very large containers per se, but rather, they rebel at being potted into very large containers with a soil that is too slow. We know that there is an inverse relationship between soil particle size and the height of the PWT in containers. As particle size increases, the height of the PWT decreases, until at about a particle size of just under 1/8 inch, soils will no longer hold perched water. If there is no perched water, the soil is ALWAYS well aerated, even when the soil is at container capacity (saturated). If you wish to grow in a large container - please do. Just be certain that your soil supports no, or very little perched water. You have all the tools you need to make an excellent soil. Now all you need is the confidence and the materials. ;o) Al
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Hello, Citrus can be a little difficult but as long as you do a few things you should be fine. I would simply lift the tree out of the pot and see if the roots are rootbound. If you notice roots coming out the bottom of the pot then it needs to be repotted. Citrus require a feast draining mixture that isn't going to hold water. They can suffer from root rot fairly fast. Several people here use Al's gritty m ix or a variation of it. Judt don't use any potting soil, even if it says that it is good for citrus. I tried something similiar. I used it for a dwarf moro blood orange and a dwarf keylime. A few weeks ago I noticed that my blood orange was losing leaves, and the stems were turning black. I almost lost it, but the second I changed the soil to a bark mix, it recovered and then some! I would use a black plastic container. The heat will not hurt the tree and it actually will help dry the soil out. Citrus are heavy feeders. I would check the Lowe's were you bought the tree at. If they sell citrus, then they should have citrus fertilizer. I managed ti get my hands on bag and that is what I use with a combination of Foliage Pro and a also a teaspoon of white vinegar per gallon of water. The vinegar helps to keep the ph in the acidic range which the citrus require. If you can't find a citrus fertilizer look for something high in Nitrogen. i also use a product similiar to Super Thrive. Some people here don't think it helps any but it helped my keylime tremedously. When it comes to the cold temps, I would be very carefull with any temps that go below 32. I won't risk it myself but some people say that they can handle 30. I keep my citrus indoors by then so I don't know if it would hurt or not. As long as you can keep it in your sun room with temps above 30 you should be fine. If they temps get much cooler, the tree may go dormant. Not dropping leaves or fruit, but not really growing. That should help you a little and I am sure there will be more people that can help you. I wish I could go to my Lowe's and buy citrus trees like that! Andrew
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I have hundreds of black containers and there is no way I am going to buy more. Since we are talking about outside in the sun in the growing season, these are a few of my favorite things... I organize all my large container to where they are going to be outside, then the medium size. Here is the fun part. I take 1 or 2 gallon cheep-o-black pots, cut three or four 2" holes evenly spaced around the middle upper third of the pot. Next 3/4 more 2" holes around the bottom third of the pot. I alternate and evenly space them. Fill bottom of pot with soil then pick a cool annual or creeping herb for your climate. Then treat like a mini strawberry pot. Stick the fist level of plants in the bottom holes, fill in to the next level of holes. Stick in plants and fill in. In the top I pick something low growing and that can take some dryer soil. My pic is Sedum. I place them all around my containers and mimic the same annuals in my yard. In a month, about time the sun is at it's hottest they have filled in enough to protect. Looks like mounds of color instead of hot dirty pots. The result is very beautiful! This workes very well here for me in NYC. It also help with windy days-less blow overs. On dryer days it keeps a little more humidity around the citrus. On hot and humid days I spread them out a little, for better circ. On colder spring and fall nights it keeps the roots a little more sheltered. Thats my thing, and whats more fun painting or PLANTING.... Oh yeah, I almost forgot you have got get a few little containers,( even a old cap from a aerosol can will work) place them between and around the pots and fill with beer. Between the pots will make a perfect home for slugs. The beer is non toxic and VERY effective in controling them. There is something to be said about aluminium foil, my nasty squirrels hate it! I tear it in to 2"w long strips and criss cross it loosly over the top of my pots. It also looks very nice when the sun reflects off of it. Good Luck, Mantis212
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Last winter in zone 9 , I overwintered several citrus including some limes which I think,are the most cold sensitive in containers, in a screenhouse from walmart ( I called my ghetto greenhouse).It was reinforced on the sides with metal posts and tied well to the ground and had a canvas roof. It got to 28F a few times and froze a few times. When it got really cold I put blankets or flannel sheets on top and tied heavy plastic around that. They all made it. There were several tropicals in there as well, (zone 10-11 plants) they all made it too. As long as it warms back up and doesn't freeze for too long of period of time I think this is prob safe. I wouldn't try it in a zn 7 or lower for sure! If its gonna freeze for more than two nights in a row I would either bring them in or find another way to keep them warm. My "ghetto greenhouse" for this year: Since I have a covered porch with posts I am getting 6 mil plastic and "screen" in the porch by stapling plastic from the roof and fastening it to the posts on the sides. If it gets really cold I will plug in a space heater at night. I am tired of carrying pots around too lol. ~SJN
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greentiger87
11 years ago
Definitely read Al's primer on container trees. Where exactly in Texas are you (I'm in Houston).

What do you mean by "the roots are still turning up clay soil"? Do you have 2 feet X 3 feet of open ground space? If the trees are dead and these are just roots left behind, this would make a *perfect* space for a raised bed. Seriously, perfect.

If you can afford large clay pots, you really should spring for them. The big black plastic pots absorb all the solar radiation and bake the roots in the south. If you can't do that, making plywood boxes to or even using some opaque cloth to shade the plastic from the sun would help a lot. A lot of the excessive moisture loss has nothing to do with the temperature of the air, but rather the temperature of the roots.

Be more detailed about the yellowing leaves, because I couldn't get a good sense of what you mean. Pictures would be really helpful. The most common yellowing problems for citrus are due to secondary and micronutrient deficiencies (magnesium, iron, manganese, zinc are the most common).

Is the yellowing in between the veins, with the veins remaining green. This is called interveinal chlorosis, or christmas tree chlorosis. Does it start on the oldest leaves and progress up the tree? This is usually magnesium deficiency.

Is the yellowing on the newest growth, and interveinal? This is usually iron deficiency.

The brown squiggly lines sounds like leafminers. Most experts agree that this is almost entirely an aesthetic problem on otherwise healthy trees - the leaves still work, they're just ugly. But on trees that are already highly stressed, this is a major problem.

Ants do not prey on red spidermites (oh how I wish..). Heavy rain usually results in major spidermite mortality though, especially if all the leaves are exposed to it. If you have spidermites on any of your plants, you need to get rid of them.. they can't handle the stress on top of everything else. All you need to do is give your plants a serious bath, focusing on the underside of the leaves, as often as you can. A forceful stream of water is all that's need to kill or remove spidermites. Insecticidal soap or horticultural oils are very effective, but you have to apply them at night because citrus is very susceptible to phytotoxicity.

I don't want to overwhelm you, but there's quite a bit you can learn about an ideal container soil. I've linked another of Al's (Tapla) epic posts that has transformed that way a lot of us container garden. If it's too much for you to absorb at once, just take away this - the 2" layer of pebbles and gravel does not improve drainage... it actually makes conditions worse for your plants.
greentiger87
11 years ago
And I forgot the link.

Here is a link that might be useful: Container Soils - Water Movement and Retention
meyermike_1micha
11 years ago
Greentiger, I was asking the same questions to myself:-0)

The information given is wonderful since I have been growing dozens of citrus in the 5.1.1 mixes for years!

Hello Al:-0)

Mike
tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
11 years ago
Hey, Mike. Take good care - & hello to sissy for me!

Al
laidbackdood
10 years ago
Its been a long time since i have been on here....last time i was living in Auckland NZ....Now i am in WA Australia.
I learned a lot from Al on here about mixes....In nz it rained a lot and summers were not that hot...so i grew 8 citrus trees in terracotta(breathe) and used container mix with perlite mixed in......Now i am in wa aussie where it will be very hot...i have used the same mix but in plastic to help conserve the moisture.....we will see how it goes.
I have found that yellowing leaves can be caused by overly wet soils as well...the citrus in the ground grow really well here but in summertime there is virtually no rain and 30-40 degree heat.
The enemy of pot grown citrus is over watering and a heavily based organic mix...overtime this will compact and rob the roots of the air spaces they need to breathe...esp in plastic....so you must blend inorganic particles into your mix....sand is not ideal as they are small....i find with perlite it stops the mix compressing which allows the roots to move in easily and take water/nutrients.......the other thing is to upsize pots gradually......so stale water doesnt develop in areas where the roots havent found yet......I killed a lot of trees by putting then in pots way too big.....put plenty of drain holes at the bottom and put some onion bag mesh to keep insects out and avoid loss of mix......aim to dry out the top half of mix before watering....let the roots search for their drink......fert with npk 5/1/3 ratio plus trace elements(as close as poss).....only feed when growing...I like liquid organic feeds like seaweed and fish emulsion.
I have 6 more trees on the go now and they are putting out heaps of new growth but there is a lot of rain through august....which concerns me.

Growing citrus in plastic pot in patio on East side

Comments (7)

calistoga_al ca 15 usda 9

tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)

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greentiger87

greentiger87

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tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)

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