emgardener,

Great post! Thanks for sharing the results and I do appreciate all the time and effort you put into it.

Ron

That is an interesting and worthy experiment.

I like the idea that some people like experimenting with low cost organic inputs as it is not always possible for people to purchase mixes and fertilizers so figuring out what works and doesn't work is important and challenging.

I have visited Echo Demonstrations Farms in Fort Myers Fl where the goal is too figure out ways that people in 3rd world countries can grow their own food with virually no purchased inputs. Even a 5 gallon bucket is hard to come by and a valuable asset in many countries and yet we throw out tons of them.
Many people here in the US could also benefit from low cost container veggies.

World records in plant growth and yields have been set with organic fertilizers. Even in containers it is possible to get very good yields (see Charles Wilber's book How to Grow World Record Tomatoes) yet more often than not the results for most people don't compare with synthetics.
I have seen this myself in some experiments comparing the two techniques.

I do think that the larger the container the better (though this may not be possible if your resources are really limited) and I have a feeling that compost is important but not the store bought stuff which is too dense. Urine has alot of benefits too--always available and you can't get any cheaper. Just have to get some people over the 'yuk' factor but even commercial operations use manure on fields and production of petroleum-based fertilizers (if you knew the whole process) is probably as offputting as well.

Thanks for the report.

I love reading this also. Not sure what I trust or understand the cause and effect relationships here, but I do applaud your efforts and wanted you to know others find it useful. Always something to be learned....

For the past two years I've grown tomatoes using compost in a 6 foot snap set kiddie swimming pool in my back yard. I was looking for something cheap to build a raised bed and found a small pool a neighbor had put out for trash pickup. I filled the pool with grass clippings and leaves from my yard and several bags of leaves that my neighbors had put out for trash pickup. I let the grass clippings and leaves compost from fall until spring. Because most of the leaves were not chopped up, the consistency of the compost was much like the leaf mold EMGARDENER used.

It work so well last summer for my tomatoes, I watched for the pools to be put on sale at Wallmart last fall. When they dropped the price to $5 each, I bought 2 of the pools for more raised beds. I have rheumatoid arthritis and have difficulty stooping over, so the beds are a good height for me to plant while sitting on a stool.

This past fall and winter, I filled the 2 new pools with grass clippings and leaves again. After reading about using Turface to improve the water retention and drainage of container soil, I bought 9 bags of WalMart's "Special Kitty Natural Cat Litter". This litter in the red bags is fired clay with no deodorants. It cost only $2.50 for 25 pound bags. It has helped the compost in my beds hold water even better, which was wonderful since we had no rain during June. Because it was so dry, to help reduce my watering, I bought 3 bags of composted pine bark to mulch around the plants. It has been raining more during July, but the beds have drained well. All three beds are filled with composted leaves and grass clippings, to which I've added the kitty litter. This year I've got one bed each for tomatoes, peppers, and herbs. With the addition of the kitty litter, my tomatoes have done even better this year than last year.

Even though it was cold this past winter, I had dozens of volunteer tomato plants come up from seeds in fallen fruit from last year's crop. I planned to grow herbs in the bed where tomatoes had grown last year, so I scooped up 12 of the tomato seedlings and transplanted them into the their new bed.

I have a 2 gallon plastic sprayer that I use for spraying a dilute mixture to foliar feed, prevent fungus, and kill aphids. I spray them once or twice weekly. I mix the following with 2 gallons of water:

3 oz Green Light Blossom End Rot Spray - Calcium
1 teaspoon Green Light Super Bloom Flower Food (12-55-6)
1 aspirin
1 tablespoon each of epsom salt, backing soda, olive oil, soap
In the picture below (taken a month ago), the tomatoes vines are supported by an 8 foot high rose trellis. Last summer I told my neighbor that the tomatoes I was giving her were grown in the pool she had thrown away after her grandkids tore an hole in the bottom. This spring she was going to throw away the bent-up rose trellis, but asked me if I wanted it for my tomatoes before she tossed it out. For the past 3 weeks, I've had all the tomatoes and fresh basil that me and my neighbors can eat. I've got basil and rosemary that are 2 feet tall, but my peppers are not quite ready yet.

When the kiddie pools go on sale this fall, I'm planning to get another one for a raised bed of strawberries next year.

This almost free soil is producing exceptionally well for me. With a foot of soil in each bed, these 3 pools together hold about 100 cubic feet. In the past 2 years on these beds I've spent less than $50 on everything, including the sprayer, seeds, fertilizer, kitty litter, and mulch. It would have cost me $5 per cubic foot bag for an average potting mix, and more than $10 for a premium potting mix.

I agree with EMGARDENER that leaf mold and/or compost is difficult to beat for the price.

{{gwi:48301}}

gtippit,

Thanks for the post. I've often looked at those Walmart kiddie pools and thought I should try one out as a planter, but always thought they were too shallow to get good results.
Your picture certainly says otherwise. I guess 33cu ft. is a lot of soil volume.

A few questions:

What kind of drainage holes do you have?
Do you think the tomato roots have substantially grown into the ground below?

I tried growing tomatoes on a pile of pure compost before with poor results. The compost would dry out while the clay soil below would be saturated. This stunted the plants growth.

What kind of soil do you have below the pool? Does it drain well or is it heavy clay?

Thx

That is amazing! How ingenious.

Jane

"I found under some pine & redwood trees, some really good soil mix. Many years of needle droppings produced a 3-4 inch layer of almost peat like substance. I used this as the container mix for 3 18-gallon totes"

I've got pine trees in the field behind my house. So the soil under all of the needles would be good to use?

TIA

Julia

Julia..

how much lime do you use per that mix to offset the very acidic pH levels?
Or what ph does your mix start out with?

Thank you
:-)
Mike

fascinating and encouraging. Thanks for letting us know it can be done.

gtippit,

enjoyed seeing your swimming pool pics and what you used to fill it--will have to try some of your tips.

I also have used kitty pools--fun and easy to grow in.

{{gwi:48302}}

My dirt is heavy hard clay with a heavy Bermuda grass lawn. I cut out the bottom of the pool and left about 18 inches of the bottom attached around the edge, otherwise the the sides will kick up and everything run out under the sides. After I filled it up, I realized too late that I should have turned it inside-out, so that the pale blue inside would have been the outside. I've sort of grown fond the the little fish on the sides now. ;-)

I grew the tomatoes like this last year with just compost. The compost held lots of water bit it still dried out really quickly once the vines got big.

Before I set out my plants, I added three 25 pound bags of Wal-Mart Special Kitty Natural Litter to each bed. I scattered it on top and then scratched it into the top bit of compost, and it has settled further in as I watered each time. It holds tons of water and the extra water retention has really helped this year.

I had a few determinant tomato vines that had finished fruiting, so I replaced them with some new transplants about a week ago. The roots had gone at least 6 inches into the underlying clay soil. Before I filled the beds last fall, I mowed the grass as short as I could cut it, I then covered the turf with 2 layers of flattened cardboard boxes to smother the grass. The worms and microbes had left no sign of the grass or cardboard in only 9 months.

My basil and peppers are about 3 feet tall now.

I'm permanently disabled and live on Social Security, so I was looking for something for raised beds that was really, really cheap. Cedar 1x6s lumber would have cost me about $100 for raised beds that were 16 sqft.

Before I started using these pools I was growing tomatoes in 5 gallon buckets. The 6 foot pool is 15 inches deep, which is almost as deep as the buckets, but gives more horizontal space as well as roots going down into the soil underneath.

If you've got some space and not much money, I could not recommend the pools enough for raised beds. I was not sure at first if the round beds would be a problem, but the really work well. On Victory Garden recently they showed a community garden in San Franscisco where they used straw-filled burlap bags to form the border of their round raised beds. There is a picture below. They were really nice because you could knell or sit on them to plant, weed, and harvest.

{{gwi:2100671}}

love this post emgardener, i like seeing ingenious ways to do things sustainably, and using up what you have is just that. You gave me a great idea to a problem with your drainage hole tube thingy. I hate when water comes out of the pots and stains the patio. i'll just drain them into the grass. GENIUS.

Julia,
If you dig around the pine trees you can get a feel for the soil. For mine I can dig down about 3-4 inches for good mix. Below that it becomes solid clay, which I do not include in a container mix.

To offset the low PH, I added wood ashes. Don't know the correct amount, total guess.

gtippit,

Thanks for the info. Hard clay underneath, hmmm .....
This has made me think. I got mediocre results with tomatoes in compost holes that I dug 1.5-2 feet across and about 1.5 feet deep.

I conclude that the extra soil volume your 6 feet diameter "container" provide is enough to grow great tomatoes. And the shallowness does not matter. I'd always thought container shallowness would be a problem, guess not, as long as there's enough total volume.

When the pools to on sale at Walmart this fall, I'm going to get a couple!

HI;

Nice thread, thanks for the very interesting experiment. I have a question, do you think the plants you use foliage pro on would have done any differently if you used a higher N fertilizer?

Thanks
Jamie

Jamie,

A higher N fertilizer wouldn't have been better. I put enough in to keep the leaves dark green.

Now I believe the difference in results was mainly due to drainage issues. The SWC reservoirs were kept full all season, so the mix was always wet. This limited growth. The tubs were allowed to dry out some in between waterings.

Next spring I'll try comparing ZCO with foliage pro & 5:1:1 mix using well drained tubs for each. So I should get a good comparison.

rgds,
Eric

If you are using FP consistently, it is ALWAYS some other factor that is causing nutritional problems..Great point Emgardener..

Miike