Thats a steep price, she must think that she is brimming with great ideas, and perhaps she is, the reason for the price of the initial consult is that she will be doing work for you when she is there, she will be talking to you about what you can and cannot do with your property and that knowledge is something that you will cary on even if you don't hire her for the job.

It's also a way for a designer to avoid wasting time. Obviously, a client would have to be serious to pay her up front fee. Perhaps she is busy enough that it is necessary.

P.S. Landscape Design is going to cost a lot more in CA or CT or NY than it does in other parts of the country, similar to the general difference in cost of living in those areas. My house in CT cost 2 or 3 times what a similar house in rural VA would cost. Wage scales vary accordingly.

I'm not too familiar with the landscape business, but I do know that many landscape businesses DO charge initial consultation fees.

If you like her work (and judging by her website, she does have some very nice projects and proof of her abilities) and are serious enough to consider hiring her, then I think that the $100-an-hour fee is minimal considering what you're going to get in the long run (from her).

-Audric

Being a west coaster myself, both paying for an initial consultation and the rates in general are pretty much SOP for an experienced designer. I sometimes travel as much as 50 miles one way to do a consultation - with gas prices the way they are and the time it takes me to make such a journey, I'd go broke pretty fast without charging for the initial consult. OTOH, I do credit the client with the fees for the consult if they do decide to contract with me. And yes, it is one way for a designer to eliminate the wheat from the chaff - clients who are willing to invest in the consultation are far more likely to follow through with a real design project.

This is not exactly the same as a contractor's estimate or even an interview. The interview has been settled pretty much over the phone. It is a chance to get to know the client and the property in some detail to see what needs to be done and to develop a greater understanding of what they want to have done. While I don't quote an hourly fee for design work, I do need to view the property in depth and get a full understanding of the client's intent and the complexity of the job before I can quote a flat design fee. And to be honest, there is a great deal of design discussion that typically takes place at these initial consultations - there is knowledge and creative input that is being shared that should be compensated for.

While I am not casting aspersions at you, flyingflower, I have encountered a number of less scrupulous potential clients who have used an unpaid initial consulation to glean as much input as possible from as many designers as they con into visiting and then have done the "design" themselves.

The fee sounds pretty standard to me, or at least what I've paid in the past for consults with landscape designers.
If I choose to use them, most of them have a policy of deducting the fee from the cost of the design drawing.

But..........I just went to their website and here's a quote "The minimum fee for a landscape design is $3,500".
IMO, the writing is on the wall.............they don't want to do small jobs!

Hey Jo...I live in CT too and I pay $125 to have my hair cut and also, um, chemically enhanced, shall we say. I think I'm getting ripped off! Maybe I need to head to the shoreline.

Re. Landscaping fees. I hired a landscape architect/designer to walk my property with me about 4 or 5 years ago. I did pay him 100 an hour...and it took about an hour. First, though, I spoke with him on the phone for no fee and asked what the consultation would involve and asked for references. (I never contacted any of them, except the nursery he had worked with. The nursery had a portfolio of his work that I did look at.)

Not sure that helps.
Patty

The better the reputation is and/or exposure, the more calls a person gets. The more job leads. Where each of these takes at least an hour, you can only do so many in order that you can have some time to get some of the other work done.

Let's say that a designer has the time to do five of these a week. That would be 12.5% of a 40 hour work week, by the way. Any business does some type of pre-qualifying of leads when they need to invest time into in order to make a sale. It does take time to write up a proposal and define the scope of the work after that consultation (or initial meeting, if you will). This can easily take another hour. Now we are up to 25% of a 40 hour work week invested in trying to get work. It becomes increasingly important to make sure that there is a reasonable chance of selling a design with 25% of your time invested.

There are lots of people who want to talk, wish they could do hire a good designer, some that want to pick your brain, and some that do not realize that they can not afford the services. How can a person determine who is a likely lead and who is a waste of time? You could spend even more time to investigate them, or you find out if they are serious enough to spend money on the initial meeting. That tells you that their economic condition allows them to spend money. It shows that they value your services. In other words it puts the designer in contact with people who are much more likely to buy their services than just those who saw them at a flower show or heard about them elsewhere. It does not hurt that the money also compensates for the time, but there is a better reason as I described above.

When most landscape contractors will come out to talk about and in some cases design your landscaping for free as a marketing tool to sell you marked up plants and labor, it is easy to expect a designer to do the same. The designer is selling a limited amount of hours for the most part. You can't advance your income if you have to take more time out of your 40 hour work week to act as a free consultant. The more success, the more calls, the more time spent away from the billable work hours. That means even higher hourly rates for those getting billed.

You only have 40 hours a week. What hourly rate should one charge when investing a lot of unbillable time. Would you expect that a very successful designer might make 6 figures? Divide that over billable hours. Then try to subtract 25% of those billable hours and see what it does to the hourly rate.

Does that make sense?

I'm a landscape designer and often speak to groups such as garden clubs. Within driving distance, I charge $200 per hour, plus mileage; more if long distance is involved. When I have been questioned about such a fee for "only an hour's work", I tell them they are paying for:
My thirty years' of work and experience;
My graduate school education in landscape design;
My numerous courses at other institutions in horticulture and related fields;
The thousands of slides I have taken so I can choose just a handful appropriate for their lecture;
The travel to gardens across the country and in England to study design--enjoyable but work, not just strolling about;
The 1500 garden books I have bought to study my subject area;
The numerous magazine subscriptions I pay for so I can stay up with the latest in my field;
The many garden-related organizations I belong to for professional reasons, among others;
Etc. etc.

They are getting a bargain from any experienced professional in this field.

I think that I might expect (or HOPE) that I could learn something about the person's capabilities and previous projects without having to pay. Such as website information, a few pics of previous jobs, portfolio, and ideally, references. This is information that would be used to decide whether the professional's credentials, type of work done (design only, turnkey, etc), and "style" suits you enough to pay the intial fee. But I agree that in general you expect to pay for someone to come out and say, hmm, we could do this, or this, or consider this. Because they would have to expect that you might say, thanks, I'll think about it... and then do it yourself. If I were the professional and DID decide to spend the time and $$ to come out to someone's home, I might walk around, mostly listen, give a few aha!!... and I see!...and then say, yes, I certainly COULD improve your landscape. If you would like to learn more about how I might do so, please pay $X !

I looked at some portfolios at our local garden show and was disappointed that they looked so hum-drum. Then I could not tell if that's because of the market and the person was just dying to have the opportunity to do something else. Also photos tended to be of just-installed stuff and if one does not have a perfect imagination, couldn't tell enough about the potential, or how long to reach it.

I googled your designer and see her portfolio online.

This is somewhat generous....there were several designers in our area that would not let me peek at their portfolio without them coming out to the house ($$$).

The fee seems a tad high but you are in an expensive area and she seems to be a very experienced, polished designer.

If you absolutely love what you saw of her work, call her up and see if you "click" on the phone (personality wise) and if you do, consider paying the $125. I think she is charging $125 because she can--people are obviously willing to pay this for her time. If her work was ok but didn't make your adrenaline rush with a "perfect fit" feeling, maybe you should pass and keep looking.

She might not want to work for you at all if she finds this post online. I'm serious--This happened to me!

Good answers! I would not invite a designer over to my house with the sole purpose of picking their brain. So I do understand why they're trying to protect themselves from that happening.

On the other hand, I'd like to see some ideas before I start paying for them. As an example, the pathway to my front door is the original, "L" shaped walkway from door to driveway. I want that completely ripped out and a much nicer walkway put in it's place, one that's wider and with curves instead of straight lines. But I don't know what will look best, should we simply curve it over to the same spot on the driveway or go more elaborate and take it straight across the lawn to the sidewalk.

Let's say I pay for a designer to come by and it turns out this person is not very imaginative and her recommendation is to just go to the driveway. And if I don't like her idea & sketch drawing I've just wasted a 100 bucks. That's why I'm nervous about paying upfront before I know how good their design will be. Without her seeing my yard in person she can't tell me over the phone what would be the best design for my walkway, there would have to be a meeting on site before I know how good she really is.

What do you think of this compromise...I email her photos of my front yard and ask her to give me her opinion of the walkway. That way I'm getting something upfront and she isn't wasting her valuable time driving to my house. Yes, I would be asking for her ideas but it's a halfway point so that I'm not putting my money on the line only to be disappointed by a ho-hum design.

Obviously you can do whatever you want and whatever the traffic will bear, but I think you are missing the point. You are in essence saying, I want her to give me an idea ( and a SKETCH ?) and then I will be in complete control of whether to use it or not (note she would not have any way to enforce payment if you did "like it" but decided not to use her to install it). So what the replies are saying is, ideas and sketches often cost $$--less if someone has decided they must give away some ideas in order to attract more business; more if someone does not have to give away their ideas. The problem is in your viewing your $100 as "wasted," which is a common perception in the "idea market," a common theme in posts ( "I don't have good ideas myself but it's not in my budget to pay for them")and surely drives designer-types craaazy as well as anyone else who is in any kind of information business. For example, I paid a small fee to access some apartment listings in an OOT location for my daughter. I knew that there might not be any suitable for us. But this particular deal was not, we'll let you walk off with the listings and maybe you'll pay us or not. The fee paid their time, phone, office etc.

And in fact, you WOULD be picking her brain--isn't that obvious? And she yours, in order to even come up with a sketch. You already have some definite ideas of what would satisfy you or not, but can't get to closure, and a good designer would try to understand all of that and not just say, here, you gotta do THIS. Because then she could be accused of making a bad design because of not taking the time to understand all the issues. And maybe curvy is not even best for your site!

It's not a moral issue, it's just economics. If you can get someone to come out and give you ideas for free before any payment, great--there are people that do that and could be excellent. If this person does not, that's her choice. So all you can to is to use whatever means available to get a kind of feel for the work, and then look at "howdy" fees as part of the cost of finding the right fit, and make a decision.

You are missing the point.

"That way I'm getting something upfront and she isn't wasting her valuable time driving to my house."

So you are getting her ideas for free, and she gets, what? To not come all the way out to your house for nothing?

If you do end up hiring (and paying) a designer, please be sure to tell them before they start that you are going to think their design is ho-hum unless they do something funky with the walk. Do you want them to accomodate you on this, even if it looks stupid or functions poorly? A reputable designer will try to talk you out of a mistake, if this should turn out to be one on your part.

Well, I'm going to stick my neck out and say she's very good with plants, but less so with hardscape. Her education and experience do not fit what I personally would be seeking if I wanted someone to do hardscape.*

*Totally biased, personal, amateur opinion. Others will differ strongly with me, your mileage may vary, all standard disclaimers apply.

Glad I brought this matter up with you folks first before approaching a designer with my concerns, I wouldn't want to get off on the wrong foot. From what I'm reading I probably would have! Better to learn what's standard operating procedure by discussing it here.

When I am ready to embark on a painting project I allocate part of the project's funds to selecting paint. I expect that I'll waste x-amount of dollars on quarts of paint as I'm searching for just the right color. I won't use the paints I reject but I still have to pay for them. But they serve a purpose of getting me to the goal.

With this landscaping project maybe I should approach it in the same way? I'll have to allocate money at the beginning of the project to finding the right designer for me. Others I talk to will cost me money that I won't see a return on but that's part of the price of searching for just the right one. I wish it worked more like finding a tile setter who gives free estimates but it doesn't look like it works that way in this kind of business. So I'll just have to accept this is the way it is. If I'm lucky I'll like the design presented to me by the first designer I call and if my luck is really bad it's going to cost me hundreds of dollars before this project even gets off the ground.

catkim...thanks for that comment because I was questioning her background myself. She says she has 20 years experience but then doesn't specify those years as being a designer. I think those are the years she worked in her own backyard while she was an accountant or whatever it is she did for a living. So she's only been a professional designer for 5 years. But my questions were general, it started off specific to her but really applies to any designer. I may end up not calling her after all. Especially now that I know I will be required to pay her $100. IF I have to put that much money upfront I think I'll keep searching for someone with more experience. My project will require major hardscape changes (new driveway, pathway, retaining wall, and patio).

A landscape architect might be a better way to start since my property needs so much construction done. What do you think? Should I skip the designer and go straight to an architect?

If it makes you feel any better, your "feelings" are understandable and I can empathize even while I am nattering on about worldviews. It is part of our culture of devaluing time,ideas and experiences compared to concrete items, like things that take up space in our homes but have no real value. Stupid to pay $10 to walk through a garden and enjoy it, but sensible to pay $50 for something tacky to put in the garden. Or have to buy a souvenir to make a travel experience real. Other people may also be making you feel that way--what do you have to SHOW for your $$ ?!! You mean you PAID her to TALK to you ? Boy, are you a sucker! You might ask yourself if there is a $$ that seems reasonable to you--$100? $80? $50 ?-- in which case it would be sensible to shop around for different cost/hour of time in designers. That's if you look at it as though this person is at the high end of the market and you want some kind of $$/value breakpoint. But I think you tend to feel that the designer should woo/wow you for your business.

If these fees are simply not in your budget, then you can compensate by taking more of your time to surf for photos, look at books, talk with gardening friends, make your own sketches, and eventually you may arrive at some confident design of your own. That's perfectly fine, too.

Flying flower, what is your total budget? This, more than anything, will determine what you "should" do.

If you're looking for a lot of hardscape, this designer may or may not be right for you. My guess is if she's a pro, she'll be up front. Bear in mind that it's not just a rubber stamp to be certified by APLD.

By way of comparison, the way I work is to meet the client at his/ her home, show my portfolio, learn what he/ she is looking for, set a budget and determine how big a job the design is. I then mail them a design proposal, and they sign it and send it back. But that's my style, and I'm not driving in California traffic.

Bottom line, respect the designer, her time, and her right to charge for her time. She seems to have a good eye, is educated and a member of a trade organization that has its members keep up on new developments. Interview her on the phone, and if you don't feel comfortable, keep shopping.

It is not necessarily a given that you will get a better end result from a LA than you would from an LD. I didn't spend more than a minute on the website of the designer you mentioned, so I can't comment on her skills, training or experience. You can probably get her to spend a few minutes with you on the phone answering questions about her experience if you liked her designs.

Why not ask for some referrals from some local nurseries or landscape contractors? Most installers will be familiar with the work of area designers because they work with them all the time.

A search of this forum might turn up some of the threads where the difference between architects and designers were discussed, as well as threads about how to go about working with a designer.

Sorry, I can't be of help to you. 90% of my customers were referred to me by word of mouth. This was in the days of no computers or web sites. Been retired for awhile. Perhaps you should just start 'asking around' among friends and business associates. That is the way to find a designer.

BTW...I think $100.00 an hour for design consultation is a bargain. Other designers will back me up, I'm certain, when I say that consultations are brain draining experiences where one has to figure out the client, often deal with less than attractive house designs, think on your feet, sell a job and very often be given a low budget figure which lessens creativity.

spunky...I'm so clueless right now I don't know what any of this is going to cost. How far will $40,000 take me??? What's a pathway and 2-car driveway made of aggregate cost? Beats me. A 60' concrete block retaining wall? How about a 300 sq ft brick patio (over existing concrete)? What should I allocate?

When I was getting ready to remodel the kitchen I THOUGHT I had a lot of money ($40,000) for the project until I started talking to kitchen designers and they laughed at me, "consider cabinet refacing honey", "you can't afford me, dear". So that was a rude awakening. Part of me is afraid the same is going to happen when I talk to the designers/contractors. I'll say I want this and this and this done and here's $40,000...only to have them laugh at me and say, "where's the other 60,000?!!"
It's not fun being out of your element let me tell you. ;-)
When I talk to the first guy I'll find out what this is going to cost approx, right now I'm afraid of what I'm going to hear. If the designers charge $125 an hour what on earth are the contractors going to charge when they start construction.

Signed,
Chicken Little

You can tell a designer what your budget and desires are, and they should be able to tell you whether or not you have enough budgeted to do what you want. They shouldn't laugh at you, that's just rude.

From there you can decide whether you need to scale back the project to meet your budget, or get the plan you want and implement it in stages as finances allow. Decide which parts are most important to you and do them first. I did my patio first, adjacent gardens, shed, and veggie garden second, side yard next, and left the front yard until last, because the parts I live in and use are more important to me than what people driving by look at. Your priorities may be different.

flying flower, I wish I could be more helpful about who to hire. My experience in hiring contractors and landscapers is not very real-world. DH is an architect; he had a very close working relationship with a terrific contractor; the three of us "designed" the remodel of our house, including exterior hardscape. (My contribution was mostly saying "ok; yes; we have all that used brick; I prefer the curve; yes, ok, yes," etc.) The contractor later referred a landscaper who did sod, edging, and irrigation, nothing super-complicated. He put himself forward as a landscaper, not a designer, didn't charge for the consultation or bid, (I already knew almost precisely what I wanted) and his crew was neat, fast, and efficient. It was a circle of trust: DH trusted the contractor, who trusted the landscaper, and I trusted DH. Do you have any friends in the building trade? Ask around.

I can understand where the OP is coming from, but I also understand why a good landscape designer/architect would charge for initial consultations. I didn't go to the 2006 SF Garden Show but I see that Marcia Bloom was one of the designers, and the photo on the Garden Show website was quite nice.

In fact, I paid an LD $180, $90/hr with a 2-hr minimum, to give me a consultation three years ago when we were first planning our landscaping efforts. I made it clear to her that I had been doing a lot of basic research and had lived in the house for quite a while, and needed someone to look over what I intended to do and tell me if I was on the right track or not. I might or might not be able to afford to hire someone to create a design and install the whole thing, but we were planning to do it in phases whether it was pro-installed or DIY.

As it turned out, she was not someone I wanted to work with, personality-wise. But she gave me some good advice, and agreed that I had the right ideas in mind about scale, layout and types of plants. I considered the $180 money well spent, and appreciated her giving me the benefit of her expertise. She validated my own design ideas, and since this was my first effort that was important to me.

Afterwards I was lucky to find a very inexpensive, just-your-average-gardener (a Vietnam War vet who came back, dropped out, and turned to gardening services) who is an invaluable resource for us. He has put in some hardscape, we've put in some ourselves, he gives us advice and that handy pick-up truck/delivery when we need it, and is willing to do as much or as little as we want.

But design? No. Not that he's bad at it, but it's not his area of expertise and he doesn't claim it is. If I wanted design services, I would expect to have to find someone whose vision complemented mine, and pay them for both consultation and design. 15 years ago we considered remodeling my in-law's house so that we could all live together in it. We paid an architect $1800 for plans that were never used. They were beautiful, however; far beyond anything I could have thought of myself, despite a life-long amateur interest in architecture. I don't regret doing that for a second. Good professionals deserve to be paid. Design is imagination, inspiration, experience and education. If any idiot could do it, the world would be awash in great designs of beauty. Since it isn't......well, you get the idea!

I too understand where you are coming from, Flyingflower. This is exactly where we were a year ago. I too had sticker shock on the consult, even though I was fully prepared to pay for a design and installation. I was almost insulted that someone would charge me for an 'interview'. I got a phone call from one designer who had gotten my name as a potential client from another designer who didn't have time to consult with me. She wanted me to pay her $100 to come out for a consult. I said, well, can you email me any pictures of your work, or do you have a website I can look at to see if what you do is in line with what I'm looking for? No. Will you mail me something? No. No thanks, then!

I didn't mind being charged for a consultation on my property, but I didn't understand why someone would charge me to peek at a portfolio (with no discussion of my yard) to see if their style and experience matched my vision or not. The nerve!

It took me a while to accept this process--but I did, and we went through the full design process and ended up with a plan that we are mostly happy with. I found alot of designers who do not charge for the initial consult. I'm VERY happy with the layout the designer gave me. It took a few months. She went through a few drafts, weighing what we wanted with city codes, site limitations, longevity and maintenance requirements, her own sense of scale and balance (which was much sharper than mine). I am less happy with particular plant choices--some of them, I went to see at the nursery and saw something a few rows over that I liked better. These are minor things, like if she chose a particular azaela, I saw one I liked a lot better after we signed off on the project. This isn't her fault. It's no big deal--I can switch something out if I want to without going through her because it is my plan and my property after all.

My estimates for a full landscape on a 6000 sq ft property are hovering at around $40,000. This includes 4 granite steps, a bluestone walkway, 14x14 bluestone patio, 20 x 15 bluestone utility area, a Pennsylvania stepping stone (side area) enchanted shade garden, grading, sod, several trees, many shrubs and perennials. Hardscaping alone is $30,000. I got 5 estimates and this is a reputable company. The highest was $55,000, the lowest $20,000 (mow and blow company). I could save a lot of money by planting smaller specimens. I did not want irrigation, lighting, or a water feature (to me these are all things that I will have to "repair" before I want to and are unnecessary on such a small urban lot). Two new sheds and a pergola are not included in the estimates.

We have to do it in stages. We did not give the designer a set budget, but now, looking back, I wish we had. We told her, don't worry about cost--we will find a way to make it happen, whether we do some of it ourselves, or install over a series of years, we want the plan to be perfect in itself without compromises. Several months after closing on the plan, I realize that one of the trees costs $1000 and it's only 8 feet tall. Yikes! If I'd known trees can be so expensive, I probably would have set a budget upfront rather than try to rise to it afterward. I would probably be just as happy with a $200 dogwood than my $1000 rare tree. Lesson learned.

From all you write, it sounds to me like this designer is not right for you. You are already "put off" by her.

There are many other designers. Many of them do not charge for an initial consultation. You should spend some time looking around. $40,000 is a lot of money--it can go far in this business or it can be wasted very quickly. Open the phone book. Check out the internet, and call any colleges in your area with reputable landscape design programs. You will find someone that fits your project.

Good luck!

We pulled up at Tim Horton's at 7:30 this morning, been on the road an hour and in need of help to stay awake. Coffee and donuts $5.97. I thought about telling the girl "Hey, I may not like the coffee it may not perk me up, you want me to give you the money in advance of my approval?" But it was Tim Horton's coffee, not the best but would probably do the trick.
It is very difficult not to become bitter or mercenary when people want you to give them a design because they see no value in it. You tell them what to do, even draw it for them and then they get an equally undervalued 'gardener' to do something like it at a rock bottom price and then blame you.

One thing that is being overlooked is that the OP obviously has a strong feeling about this particular designer's work. She has seen something at the flower show, or website, or heard something that has her so fixated with this designer to be going this far.

On the other hand, she is equally fixated on the cost of the initial consultation and trying to avoid it. This is exactly what the fee is intended to do. The OP is not yet ready to make enough of a financial commitment to the consultation. She may or may not be able to make the kind of financial commitment that this particular designer expects to get from her clients. It is not wrong or bad in either party's case. But it is obvious to me that the OP is not a strong lead for this particular designer. Chances are much lower that the designer will be able to sell a full blown landscape design to this OP than to the person across town that said "here is your consultation fee, when can we meet?".

That is what it is all about. It is not that she needs the money from the consultation. It is that she only wants to deal with strong leads and investing money in that initial meeting is a very good indication that the person is ready, willing, and able to commit to investing in a design.

This Op is obviously reluctant. There is nothing wrong with that, but it takes the "ready" and "willing" out of the "ready, willing, and able".

Find a designer whose terms you are ready, willing, and able to commit to.

Yep, spent an hour with these folks- after waiting 15 min for them to show up. Tossed around a lot of ideas, came up with a few they liked (pergola here, trellis here, fountain here, etc.)

Meanwhile, I've set them up in my e-mail, in my files, etc. I also spent half an hour on the phone with an installer discussing some of the possibilities.

A few days later, I get a call- we want you to push up your schedule, we can't wait that long. I said I had folks in line and I was doing the best I can. I didn't say that calling the first of May for a plan and expecting it in a week may not be reasonable. So when the wife called tonight to fire me, I wasn't terribly upset.

At least I had the consult fee, which was also the deposit. So we're even.

I have one more thing to add....

Since developing a master plan, I am being treated like a queen by the landscape industry. Before the plan, I could hardly get a return phone call. Suddenly landscapers from all fronts want to work on my job. They call to check up on me and send me interesting tidbits in the mail, hoping to distinguish themselves, I guess. It has really opened my eyes. Sure it's a busy time of year, but if you have the project they are hoping to land, you will be bumped up ahead of everyone else. This alone is worth the price of hiring a designer. They network with each other. I'm sure I'm getting better attention having worked with my designer than if I had gone to any of these firms on my own. I also think I got a better price by being associated with her--the $55,000 installer does not usually work with her; the $40,000 one was recommended by her; both are very good. I am learning that one hand washes the other in this field (and slaps away other hands).

There is definitely a disconnect between many potential design clients and landscape designers. As already pointed out, it is reasonable and customary for many designers to charge for their consultation time, (I generally always do so unless the potential client was directly referred from a previous client, and if closeby, I may not charge.) The consultation fee is definitely part of the selection process, and does measure intent.

You should be able to ask over the phone what that consultation fee will include, and I am often able to sketch out a quick design right on the spot during a consultation, and give ballpark estimates of what construction costs might be for various alternatives, at least on a square foot basis. Please don't expect to talk for half an hour on an intitial phone call, 5 to 10 minutes should be enough to get a feel for budget and client/designer fit, and be able to decide if you want to procede. Many, if not most, designers will also credit an initial consultation fee towards a design fee. Do your part before you get on the phone, and get a better idea of your lot size, amount of square feet of paving, length and height of desired walls, etc if you want to determine whether your budget is adequate. Another hint to potential clients, you can get more time from designers if you call in the down season,(generally winter in most markets), and are willing to schedule consultations in slow periods rather than the peak springtime market. Also don't expect that a good designer will be immediately available for your project, most will have scheduled projects at least 2 to 3 months in advance if they are well established, and some might be booked up to a year away.

If you as a potential client don't want to pay for this experience, then you can always go to the library and research much of this yourself. There are plenty of magazines and books that are readily available that will help you estimate construction costs, material costs, and may help you decide on your own preferences as to style and materials. These are all topics that I would typically address as part of an initial paid consultation. For those potential clients who don't want to pay for a consultation and want to see local examples of my own work, I will generally give out addresses of projects which they can drive by, and let them decide for themselves if they are still interested.

I would generally be very leery of taking on a client that balks at paying a relatively small consultation fee, as this often represents someone who doesn't have a clue as to what garden installation costs, and may have unrealistic expectations. As an example, concrete work can vary anywhere from $5 to $20 a square foot installed, and irrigation in California is generally estimated at $1.75/sf or more, with complete planting and irrigation coming in at $3 or more a square foot. Even new sod lawn installed without any real soil preparation will be at least $1/sf. Do yourself a favor and get some measurements of your yard, and rough estimates of amount of hardscape elements you have in mind. Just the few numbers I threw out here should be enough to give you a rough idea of whether your initial budget is adequate to hiring it all out, or whether it will need to include DIY efforts. .

I certainly don't intend to be dismissive of your very legitimate concerns as a potential client, but if you want something for free, why not try calling the local college which offers landscape design/horticulture courses and see if you can get a student to come out? Someone just starting out will have a lot more incentive to take on work to get experience, a seasoned professional designer less so.

Ok Landscape Designers...Tell me what your IDEAL client should say to you at your first meeting? You talk about your worst clients, lets hear some positive stories of clients that were a dream to work with. What did they do or say right that the others did wrong?

Do you want that in cash? Just kidding.

Most are a dream to work with. There really is no trick to what a client says at the first meeting. You basically need to be able to explain what you need to do and want to do on the site (not design wants, but actual activities like parking your car, entertaining 40 executives,...). You should be able to give a hint to your aesthetic tastes. The designer should be able to get that all out of you whether or not you have deeply thought about it, so you really don't need to rehearse it or overthink it.

I almost disagree with the many who believe you should research the heck out of it and spend hours cutting things out of magazines. I think this is over thinking it and people tend to discover styles they have never seen before and hook onto them. The novelty will likely wear off. I would rather you be true to yourself.

I believe that your preparation should be researching your potential designer. You should be prequalifying them just as they do you. In other words, find a designer who does work you like and in a similar style to what you want at your house. That is more important than trying to get the most reputable designer and getting him to adjust to your style. You should both be comfortable. You should not be jumping out of your comfort zone and neither should (s)he.

Remember that a good designer does not need everything mapped out because part of the skill set is to get that out of you in that initial meeting. You can go into this without a list of questions or a list of answers. The designer will get them out of you.

I'm curious, do designers have a preference for working with people who are gardeners or at least have some knowledge of plants and what kind of design they'd like, or is it easier to work with someone who has little knowledge? I'd guess that someone with little knowledge and strong opinions would be a tough client?

How do you extract the client's preferences, stylewise? Do you scope out inside of the house? Show a portfolio and see what they react to most positively? I would have thought pictures would help because words like "cottage" or "formal" can mean different things to different people.

saypoint, do you think we should start a new thread with these questions? I'd also like to know the answers to these excellent questions you posed.

My next-door neighbor hired a designer to do her yard but she's not a gardener so it was easy for both the designer and installer to scam her. When she asked for stone paths they took flagstone and plopped it on the ground without doing anything underneath so the stone rocks when you step on it. I know they should have dug out some soil and filled it in with sand to steady the stone in place but an ignorant home owner isn't going to know that was supposed to be done.

The designer must be an idiot because she placed shrubs that grow to over 5 feet across into a 1 foot wide planting bed. The mow&blow guys are going to sheer that poor plant into a cube trying to make it fit into the wrong location.

When the designer chose a row of camellias for the side of the house that was previously a walkway buried under pebbles did anyone think to add ammendments to the lifeless rocky soil? No, of course not. It probably took a pick ax to dig the hole. And if the hole wasn't deep enough they didn't care, in one case half of the Camellia's root ball was left sticking out of the ground, on an angle! I couldn't take it, I snuck over there one day and covered it up with more soil.

I tried to tell my clueless neighbor that she's going to have trouble with the placement of the plants and she said, "I'll have someone move them" (heaven forbid princess do it herself). But she hasn't.

This is what I want to avoid, I have proof there are designers who aren't worth their weight in salt.

Anyone who has the price of a truck and a magnetic sign can advertise themselves as designers, whether they actually have any design knowledge or not. Many of the mow and blow guys call themselves "landscapers" when they are really lawn services, and some of them do pruning and trimming of woody plants, and have absolutely no clue what they are doing.

Caveat emptor.

Caveat emptor indeed.

The landscape design field is pretty stratified. You have your "landscapers," who are (mostly) capable of maintenance, light pruning, and maybe planting annuals or the odd replacement. There are the high-volume companies like I used to work for, where your "designer" is just as likely a former pharmaceutical rep with no landscape training and the install crew is subcontract labor with little to no oversight. With those companies, they milk the handful of good portfolio shots and happy customers that were the result of real designers not realizing what they signed on for. I'd like to point out that we were never paid for our designs, just a percentage of the install, so the homeowner got what they paid for unless they had a $100K budget and the commission was going to be big. Sounds like your neighbor got stung by a company like my old employer- when we designed for new homes, we were told to do it all via fax, and design off the plat map. Hard to know what the site conditions are when you've never been there. Needless to say, I don't miss it.

Then you have the companies like the one I work for now. 90% of the business is referral, we hand-hold the clients through the whole process, and stand behind our work. I couldn't be happier, and I haven't had a single job go sideways since being here. The key is communication. By paying for the design and consult, you're demonstrating a commitment to the process. By agreeing to pay me a couple grand to design your landscape, I know that you not only value my time but you value the design and the end look of your property.

There are so many great landscape designers and landscape design/build firms as well as landscape contractors here in the San Francisco Bay Area, that it is almost criminal that so many mediocre people get work and make the sort of mistakes or shortcuts that give the whole industry a bad name. It really does help if the client takes an interest in the install and regularly gets out in the garden to track progress. I often find that the sort of improper planting and installation techniques described result when the lowest bidder gets the job, or a more commercially oriented landscape contractor is used rather than a plant oriented designer. A hint to potential clients would be to ask neighbors and friends whose gardens you like who did their work. You could also get references from the CCLA or the local Landscape Architecture Association. If you go the landscape architect route, you will also be paying for more thorough investigation of existing conditions, and will have plans and specifications and details that must be followed to both client and architect's satisfaction. There is certainly additional time and cost to provide this service, but as I read between the lines, I would recommend this approach to Flyingflower as better suiting her temperament.

As a personal aside, I am certainly more leery of working for clients that find constant fault with other contractors and/or designers they may have already used, and usually will not end up working for a potential client that has already gone through 2 or 3 other designers before calling me in.

There are no right or wrong questions to ask when consulting with a landscape designer, but it certainly helps to work with positive people who are not inherently distrustful, and value the work involved in initial design as well as the installation and cost of materials themself. I occasionally run into clients that value the materials more than the labor or ideas, when it takes all of these elements to create a beautiful garden.

I can only speak for myself. Looking at other "stuff" in the home and yard, what they react to in the portfolio, how they are dressed, and lots of talking about different things can tell you a lot about a person. Start describing how you might deal with a certain area in some detail and you will get reactions (positive or otherwise). These all tell you things.

I'll know if someone is more earthy crunchy or formal before they open their mouth in most cases. You're going to know if this person is more about putting on a show for others, or wants a landscape for personal enjoyment. You'll know if they are going to want to be involved in selecting every plant (I know that right away because they won't call me).

The first thing that I am going to do is listen and prompt to find out what they want to do. Then I'll suggest what is good about it, or alternatives that might work better. It gets them to think and react. That gives me information and understanding. The dialog facilitates a clearer understanding and that facilitation is what the client is looking for. If no one else has done this for them, they will want you to do the design work without a doubt as long as they like your portfolio.

Residential design does not have that many major elements to it. You have driveway and parking, pedestrian circulation, a public side presentation of the house, an outdoor sitting/entertaining area, positive views, and negative views. Plantings, retaining walls, grading, drainage, lawns, pruning, clearing, and the like are things that get done to enhance or mitigate those elements (which are not things, but activities).

It is less to do with the "what" and a lot more to do with the "how".

I believe that designers who work more on "garden design" are working much more with the "what" than people doing the entire landscape design. I'm not designing anyone's perennial beds much past where they will be. I do use perennials to enhance and mitigate.

Frankly, I am bored with this thread. Flyingflower has received some excellent advice. She ought to be thrilled that someone like Bahia with worlds of expertise and reputation has taken the time to guide her decision making. I wonder if she is really listening?