I would definately not go with the cheapo potting soil, but one with a fair amount of peat moss and vermiculite added to it. It doesn't need to be Miracle Grow, there are other brands that work well and cost less. You can even find soilless mixtures, if you want to spend quite a bit more.

I have used the cheap stuff and you have to be careful. The generic brand of MG is fine. I actually had better luck with that then MG this year.

You have to watch out for the real cheap potting soil. It is usually $1-3 a bag and turns to a brick. Dont ask me how I know. lol

Carey

As with the old addage,you get what you pay for,is true in this case,at least for me ! I've always used M/G potting mix , but had bought some "cheaper" mix too try to save some cash. What I got was stones,twigs,clumps that where rock hard. It was just bascailly a mess to use ! It just pays to use quailty mixes or mix your own I've seen several mix recipes on the forum that can get you started. ....mike

Has anyone had problems with gnats with MG?

I think it is worth paying for good, well draining soil for containers. I recently bought a 3.8 bale of compressed ProMix soil and which is equivalent to 7 cu feet for $30. The ProMix was nice soil with no surprises. ProMix comes without added fertilizers or water retentative crystals which is what I wanted so I can tailor it to what I am planting.

Amend Patio Plus is great for potted plants. Its all natural and has compost, manure, bat guano, worm casings already in it. Its great. My container plants love it.

- Has anyone had problems with gnats with MG? -

There is nothing about the MG brand that attracts knats. Knats are attracted to moist conditions and decaying organic material. Pretty much any potting mix you buy has peat or bark in it and these are organic materials that decompose. Add frequent watering to the mix and you have gnat trouble waiting to happen.

The solution is allow mixes to dry to a depth a a couple inches between waterings. For out of control infestations use an insecticidal soap in the next watering and pour over plant and soil.

I got this advice from an exterminator regarding gnats in the soil and it works. He said to put a thin layer of sand over the soil in the pots. I use Play Sand - the stuff they sell for kids' sand boxes. You can get a large bag for a few bucks at HD or Lowes. I just pour enough to cover all the soil. When I first did this, I had a ton of gnats. It took about a week or so and they were all dead. After that, no problems.

The only catch is that if you water from the top, over time, the sand will get hard. But you can easily take out the old sand and pour in new if that bothers you, or repot at that point if it's time.

A practical and effective potting mixture can be made by mixing a high quality potting soil such as Baacto or Miracle grow with an equal amount of the inexpensive store brands. Just make sure the inexpensive stuff has a lot of ground bark or other organic matter to encourage drainage, and NO SAND.

I have experimented with a lot of different commercial potting mixes over the years. Based on my experience I would say that if you're going to be doing a lot of container gardening it's worth your time to find a cheaper mix than MG. You will have to try a bunch of different ones until you find what you like. There are definitely off-brand mixes that match the quality of the major labels, but it's hard to recommend a specific brand as they're probably all sourced from local suppliers. However, to give you a sense of what you can get for the money, I buy the house-branded potting soil from Orchard Supply Hardware (OSH) in 2 cu. ft. bags for about $5.

lowspark- thanks for the tip on the gnats. I have indoor succulents that succummed to them this winter. They were all over it always.

Does it work on ants? I have an impatien in a cement urn that has ants, but they don't seem to be bothering the plant; they just live there.

I have about 200 pots of all sizes with various stuff in 'em. I buy my potting soil at Wal Mart and get Perfect Gardiner soil. It is in a yellow and orange bag. The secret, the manager of the garden center tells me is that it is bagged for walmart by guess who, Miracle Grow! I have had really excellent luck with it and recommend it for things that don't need Al's special Mixture like annuals and small perennials. I have even mixed it with landscaper mix which is essentially pine bark fines for a quick and dirty easy draining mix and my roses are thriving in it. It is MUCH cheaper or I could never afford it. (I usually stick a bag in with my groceries once a week and thus--hide the cost--LOL)
I know--I hate to support Wal-Mart but it is good potting soil and I can afford it.
Betsy

Oddly enough I have used Miracle Grow potting mix (it isn't potting soil which is entirely unsuitable for containers) as well as the Perfect Gardener potting mix (from Wally World).

I often use Miracle Grow mix as a baseline for the minimum acceptable potting mix for my containers. If plants don't perform at least as well I don't use it again.

I have found the PG mix much better than the MG mix for a wide variety of plants. It is very interesting to me that they are both made from the same company.

Not that surprising though.

I recently bought a new oven/stovetop from Sears. I bought the Kenmore brand (Sears brand). It is made by Whirlpool.

I looked at 3 different stores and the Whirlpool gold (top of the line) was more money and lacked the features of the Kenmore.

Same company, but they produced better quality for less money than their own brand.

Go figure.

I used Miracle Grow for a couple of years but wasn't happy with it. I didn't feel the plants were doing as well as they should.
I switched last year to Moisture Max by Sta-Green. I get it at Lowes. I've been very happy with it. It does cut down on frequency of watering, particularly in the big barrels and pots. My ferns and elephant ears are thriving. I fertilize with Osmocote time-release.
I live in a "garden condo" and stuff has to get carried down a flight of stairs to get to my garden. I really appreciate the fact that Lowes will deliver. Not cheap, but less than the chiropractor bill if I tried to do it myself.

I also use the Sta-Green Moisture Max Potting mix, and I love it. This is my first year gardening, so I don't have anything to compare it to.

Orchard Supply brand potting soil has something in it that attracts birds who aggressively tear up and scatter the soil. I re-planted with MiracleGrow and the birds left my plants alone.

I used to use MG soil years ago for my indoor stuff, and it indeed contains fungus gnat eggs. A couple days after wetting brand new mix, there would be gnats in it. I have to believe then that the eggs are in the mix. I now use gritty mix for all my plants, with the exception of the short season annuals my wife plants outside. She gets MG soil for that, but fungus gnats are fine out there.

Joe

I had very bad expierience wit MG COMPOST SOIL develope gnats. I dont trust this brand any more.

These are typical responses when the discussion turns to commercially prepared media based on high % of fine textured ingredients like peat, coir, compost, composted forest products, sand .......

Al

MG Compost Soil was not meant for potting. It is for the garden. Fungus gnats are caused by overwatering, mix staying wet too long.

Add some perlite and bark to Miracle Gro Potting Mix, helps it to drain well and give the plant good light, you should be fine. Just don't overwater. Water when the mix feels dry, not before.

Jane

Even back in 2006, the devil was in the details. It's important that growers understand that adding an unclear amount of bark and perlite to MG potting soil yields very little improvement, if any, in the area of drainage and/or aeration until/unless the % of coarse ingredients is extremely large. As long as there is enough fine material (like bark fines, peat, coir, compost, and smaller perlite particles to fill all the (what could be) spaces between the larger particles, improvement in drainage, aeration, and the ht of the perched water column remain relatively unchanged.

When thinking in terms of what the plant would like best, something along the lines of 80% pine bark in dust to 3/8" with most of the bark concentrated in the 1/8-1/4" size range and maybe 10% peat + 10-15% perlite offers much greater opportunity for superior root health. It's also a lighter soil, both when dry and when at container capacity (saturated) because of it's greater o/a porosity and air porosity at container capacity.

Al

Ahhh, I knew you would contribute Al.

IMO, MG is the top of the heap when it comes to bad potting soils. About 10 years ago they changed their recipe from something like soil, to: forest mulch, chunks of wood, and a wetting agent. seriously, look at the ingredients, 3 things. I will admit, I sometimes use it for large annual plantings. IF, I am going to buy "potting soil", I get "Fox Farm Ocean Forest Potting Soil",or, "Black Gold Cactus Mix Potting soil" for cuttings.

Since finding "tapla" however, I build 80% of my soil mixes, because it's not all about the ingredients, it's about the concept behind the ingredients.

What ever you choose-Good Luck!!:-)

Rob

There are many commercial potting mixes. If you mix in 1/3 perlite, 1/3 bark and 1/3 potting mix (whichever brand), your plants will do well. Of course, this depends on your watering style and light exposure. The pots must drain well (have drainage holes) and whatever plant you are growing gets the maximum amount of light it can handle. You should not use potting mix alone unless its for a short, temporary period.

Jane

What's the point of the bark and perlite? If 30% of the mix is fine particles, that's probably enough to fill the air spaces between the larger bark and perlite, if you want these to be effective; the larger material need's to be at least 80% of the finished product.

I can't find it right now but; if you can, look for "tapla's" reference to pudding and BB's. This explains the dilemma.

Rob

That is not the case. The potting mix is to hold some moisture. The bark and perlite provide air space and hold a bit of moisture. It keeps the mix from clumping and cutting off air to the roots. It works very well.

"the larger material need's to be at least 80% of the finished product."

No it doesn't. What I recommend works perfectly well and drains well. I am well aware of Tapla's instructions. We differ.

Jane

Ok, best of luck to you.

Rob

FWIW - the bark and perlite can't provide significant air space in a medium when there are more than enough small particles to fill in between the large particles. Start with a gallon of MG potting soil and start adding bark and perlite by the cup to the mix. At what point do you start to see an increase in aeration? When you've added so much bark and perlite that the fine MG can no longer fill all the large pores between large particles. It's so simple it can be seen in the mind's eye with ease.

Nothing works perfectly well. We labor toward making things work well enough to suit our individual standards, and some standards are higher than others. If we give people the direction they need to attain the highest standards, they have what they need to be very successful and still have the option of settling for any stopping point along the journey. If growers are left to believe that mediocre root health can somehow yield a perfectly healthy or productive plant, I think we've done a disservice. Show a person how to be as successful as possible, then let them decide how successful they want to be.

Al

Precisely!

Rob

Mmmmmm - those look good!

Al

I like Poha Berries, the sweet of strawberry without the tart!

Don't forget that peat from peat bogs is a NON-renewable resource. So we don't want to use anymore of that than we have to.

"Don't forget that peat from peat bogs is a NON-renewable resource"

This may be true of Europe and UK but not so much here. Harvestable peat bogs in North America represent only a tiny fraction of the existing peat reserves and are actually farmed, just like any other crop. And the amount of peat harvested from these bogs each year is 60 times less than the annual accumulation of new peat moss. The farmed bogs may not be overly fast to renew - 15-20 years - but they are most certainly NOT non-renewable. In fact, the Canadian peat industry is the global poster child for sustainable peat management.

Go Canada.

What about Russia?

Rob

Can you IMAGINE how much peat there must be in Russia?

I don't buy into the "don't use peat - save the planet" mantra either.

Al

Russia's peat bogs are protected by the aliens, don't you guys know anything. *rolls eyes*

or at least that's what I hear! Haha

There is a LOT of peat in this world:-) Chances of us running out globally are slim to none. Russia's peat reserves are substantial - almost 600,000 km2 (including the Ukraine and Belarus). But that's not even close to Canada's peat reserves at 1.1 million km2.

The peat question comes up so often I saved a reply I wrote on the subject several years back:

Peat - Renewable or Not? - Does it Matter?

Chicken Little would be
aghast at your inference!! In my estimation, it doesn't matter much if it's
renewable or not, and I refuse to be made to feel guilty about using any form
of peat.

Here is a reply I often leave
when the non-renewable thing comes up:

"Sorry, but I'm not buying
the non-renewable lament. In Canada alone, there are more than 270 million
acres of harvestable peat bogs. If we make the conservative guess that the
harvestable portions of these bogs are 10 feet deep, that means there are
probably more than 900 billion cu. ft. available for harvest, just in Canada!
That doesn't even take into consideration what's available in Europe, Asia, Russia, or
places like New Zealand where they also mine peat. Canada currently has
mining/harvesting operations underway on approximately 40 thousand acres or
about .014% (that reads 14 one thousandths of 1 percent) of it's minable peat. How much is in places too remote or too small to be considered not minable?

The math is accurate and conservative. It's more likely that the next ice age will be upon
us and glaciers will have covered what's available before we even use a noticeable
percentage.

Renewable/non-renewable =
moot.

Al

Siberia.

Rob

At the nursery on Friday, a woman told me, peat can lower your pH.

I'm wondering about my dwarf Gardenia.

Rob

Peat is incredibly acidic. And my hard water is incredibly alkaline.

you can also use vinegar or coffee grounds for pH alterations.

Not all is as you might imagine it to be. I save a lot of the stuff I write as a document when the question comes up over & over. Coffee & tea as plant 'tonics' is a frequent topic. Here's what I discovered:

Forum discussions frequently center on the question of adding dilute coffee/tea or grounds to plants as a 'tonic', but Arabica (coffee) and Camellia (tea) are known for their toxic alkaloid (caffeine) content and their allelopathic affect on plants as well as autotoxic (poison to their own seedlings) effects on future generations. Caffeine interferes with root development by impairing protein metabolism. This affects activity of an important bio-compound (PPO) and lignification (the process of becoming woody), crucial steps for root formation.

We also know that the tannins in both coffee and tea are known allelopaths (growth inhibitors). There are ongoing experiments to develop herbicides using extracts from both coffee and tea that cause me to want to say they might serve better as a nonselective herbicide than as a tonic. I would not use either (stale coffee or tea) by applying directly to my plants - especially containerized plants; nor would I add tea bags/coffee grounds to my container soils.

Rob - you can use white vinegar or citric acid (and other acids, but stick with the safer stuff) to lower the pH of your irrigation water (for the acid lovers) to about 5.5. Note how much acid is required per unit (like a gallon or 5 gallon unit) and repeat as needed. Note that pH of freshly drawn water rises as the dissolved CO2 gases off over a 24 hr period, so let the water you'll use rest for a day before adding the acid (first time only) for an accurate read. You'll need some pH paper - like what is used for ponds or aquariums.

Al

Used coffee grounds are not particularly acidic. In fact, they are pretty close to a neutral pH - somewhere in the 6.5-6.9 range. They really have no impact on soil pH. UCG's are best as an addition to a compost pile as they are a good "green" nitrogen source with a C/N ration of about 20:1. They really have no place in container gardening.

Thanks Al, I've got the pH paper. I soaked some GM, and it came in at about 5. My tap is about 7, haven't done the 1/4 strength FP yet.

And thanks guys, but I don't drink coffee. (coffee ice cream? Now that's a different matter. Don't think it would help my plants though.) lol

Rob