Lots of questions about starting seeds

15 years ago

Hello,

I've started some seeds on my window sill at work. I'm planning on planting them in my garden at home once the weather warms up. The basil, oregano, tomatoes, parsley, snap dragons and melons have all sprouted, but there's been nothing from the lavender and bell peppers. Is this normal? I planted the seeds about a week or 10 days ago.

I'm still very new to this, so I have a bunch of questions.... Please bear with me and thank you in advance for your help.

~ When can I plant them all outside?

~ What is 'hardening off' and must I do it in Boston? When? How?

~ Will I need to transfer them into larger pots before then? I started them in those little Jiffy soil pellets.

~ Should I remove all but the strongest seedling from each pellet?

~ The oregano, snapdragons and leeks all have a whole bunch of shoots growing in each pellet. What should I do for them?

~ Should I keep the pellets moist at all times or let them dry out (should they be dark brown - almost black, or light brown)?

~ What are 'suckers' on tomatoes and what should I do about them?

~ Where can I learn more about hanging gardens? I'm interested in hanging the melons as well as some cukes and squash. I was thinking I could build a little arbor for them. I also want to try the Topsy-Turvy tomato planter.

~ I have a groundhog outside. He's cute, but he ate all my veggies last year. This year I'm going to hang a windsock and try putting down some "Shake Away." Has anyone tried this? What were your thoughts? What are some other ways to deter the hog?

~ DH and I are also building a compost bin. I'm going to head over the compost forum, but does anyone here have any thoughts about how best to use the compost for my veggies? I have a little already. We used to just have a pile of leaves/yard waste in the corner of our property. To prepare for putting the bin there, DH raked it all out. Underneath the pile was some dark brown/black soil that I assume is the compost from the pile. Should I mix this into the soil of my veggie garden before I plant the seedlings?

~ I want to make part of the garden an herb garden since some of my herbs are perennials. I'm going to section it off with a wood boarder. How big should the herb garden be? What are some common perennial herbs? I have started leeks, chives, oregano, basil, parsley and lavender.

Thanks so much everyone!!

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Comments (12)

keepitlow
15 years ago
I'm new too so can't help much. But...

~ When can I plant them all outside?

Find your zones last frost date and see the seed packet for the info regarding putting out for the last frost date.

~ I have a groundhog outside. He's cute, but he ate all my veggies last year. This year I'm going to hang a windsock and try putting down some "Shake Away." Has anyone tried this? What were your thoughts? What are some other ways to deter the hog?

We found the only thing that worked was fencing. They gnawed through plastic fence so we used metal and reinforced the bottom of some of our old plastic fence.
diggity_ma
15 years ago
I'm located in MA too - our "safe" planting date is just after the full moon in May, which occurs on the 8th or 9th this year (I forget which). Of course, if it's May 1st and the long range forecast is for 80 degree weather as far as the eye can see, then you can probably apply common sense and put them out early.

You should definitely harden them off. Move them outside in a protected area - first for just an hour or so per day, then for a couple hours, then longer and longer. They should be gradually hardened off in this fashion for at least a week.

You probably won't need to transplant most of them into bigger pots. The only exception might be the tomatoes, which might be getting pretty big by then in those little Jiffy pellets.

Yes, you should remove all but the strongest.

You didn't mention leeks earlier in the post - are they in the Jiffy pellets too?

Keep 'em moist at all times.

Suckers grow out of each leaf crotch (where the leaf meets the stem). There are many schools of thought on what to do with them, but what has worked for me is to obey the following two rules: 1) Remove all lower suckers (those that grow within 1 foot or so of the ground). 2) For the suckers that grow higher up, let them grow 3 leaves and a cluster of flower buds, then pinch off the tips, so they don't grow any more.

Skip the upside down tomato thing - it doesn't work very well. The tomatoes keep trying to turn upward toward the sun. Eventually they will break off in the wind.

Get a HavaHart trap for the groundhog. It's non-lethal. Bait it with slices of apple. You'll probably nab him within a few hours. Once you catch him, call the animal warden, because depositing him in someone else's yard is illegal.

Yes, by all means, use what compost you have, and keep making more!

Don't forget thyme, rosemary, basil, and mint! Just watch out for the mint though, as it has a tendency to take over. You can bury a large clay pot and plant the mint inside it to prevent it from wandering. Most other herbs are fairly compact. I have all of these planted in a strip approximately 20' long by 1' wide and they do well year after year.

-Diggity
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If they were mine I'd start them outside this time of year. It's a heck of a lot warmer outside then inside my house in the summer. Besides that almost all my seeds regardless of the variety do better outside. Temps are the only reason that I start seeds indoors. I would start them in pots, not inground. Just make sure they don't dry out and keep them out of direct sunlight. Slugs would be my only concern but you should be able to come up with something to keep them away if you are only starting a few pots/trays of seed. Karyn
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Hey there, I too will share what I have learned... Basil - It will grow in a pot or garden (if you use a pot I suggest it has own pot), one plant will take all the dirt if you let it(unless in the garden), more plants and the dirt runs out sooner. I suggest you kill it early, having planted one every other week or so, that is unless you want free seeds. In that case let one or a few plants live till they flower and die, or if you want just trim the flower/seed part off after the majority of the flowers have open and turned brown, then harvest the seed, very easy to do, just a little time consuming. You can keep using the basil though some think that the basil becomes bitter after it sets flowers, i cannot tell the difference. As for starting from seeds, start them in your normal pot, just broadcast a few seeds on the dirt, water it and it will grow. If you harvest your own seeds you will no longer worry about how many seeds you put down(i.e. you will have too many!) Garlic Chives - mine are in a sq ft garden, Mine are three years old now, started from seed, and transplanted. They will over winter fine (they just look ugly during the winter). The leaves have gotten broader each year, they look nothing like the chives at the store, but they taste good! I agree with what others have said each plant has a bulb it works from, and has a few to several leaves per bulb. I am sure these would work in a pot, but I think if you can put them in the yard or garden it would be much better for you they are a very tidy decorative plant. These too will go to seed, they produce a cool little flower for each plant (the bees loved these!!!). That is where the seeds are developed. also you can eat the flower if you want, just tear it apart and use like chives. You can save the seed for spring if you want each flower makes like 25+ seeds, way too many for me use, as you do not have to replant chives each year. Cilantro - Really easy to grow, broadcast some seed, water if you want, they start regardless. They do have a hard time in the heat, just plant more (seeds are free!) I think they do like a mostly sunny spot that has some shade in the day (they did better when I had a lot together, probably kept the ground cooler). Leave a couple or more to go to seed again, and free seed!! Each plant (depending on size) make like 10-50 seeds. Again you won't care about the amount you plant you have plenty from each plant. Again the plant tends to lose flavor when they go to seed. Their ok in a pinch (nutritionally they should be ok just not as much flavor). I suggest a planting each week if you really like it, or every other week if you don't. Takes a few (2-4) weeks to reach a collectable amt per plant. These will over winter BUT the plant has no flavor (sometimes a bad flavor) in spring time. Suggest tilling in, unless some one knows if the plant will recover? I have one plant that has overwinter and is becoming bigger than any cilantro plant I have every had, it is the size of a large parsley plant now, I want to see if it recovers or not. Btw collecting their seed is way easier than the basil's, they have a large seeds. Btw the seed as a spice is called Coriander, I set some seed aside for cooking with. Thyme - A store bought starter plant, is several years old now overwinters fine, but has thick (2-3mm) stock now like kinda like a little bonsai tree (haha). Not as productive as first year (but that may be because I STUPIDLY put pasta water on it, DOH there is salt in that!!! It's not good for the plant you know, didn't kill it though, just made the leaves really tiny. haha that hurt to write). Even though it has flowered, I have not found how to get seeds yet (though I have not searched yet). It has pretty little flowers, could be something ornamental if you wanted. I have started other plants from clippings, just give be sure it has enough plant to give it the chance to live. Parsley - I started with seed (this year, and last year), I have it in the garden and in pots. in the garden it might overwintered fine, last years plant was older with a large root the size of a carrot or so, it rotted before the middle of winter, this years plant is still alive and is growing fine, go figure. Though it is not a bushy little plant, now it is a flat plant very close to the ground, tastes fine though. The plants in the pots are from last year, they are still doing well, I had them inside during the winter, seem to fare well in the window, almost no growth as expected though, that is until I put them outside in the late winter sun. These did not go to seed, though I thought they should have (would have been nice, but no free seed!). Garlic - This is the first year for me, and they are still in the ground. Pots should work, I think ground is better. I started the first batch in the garden in October, the second batch was in pots planted about Nov-Dec, they sprouted inside the house by the window. The first batch in the garden really took off now the weather has warmed, with some of the stalks now about an inch in diameter (much bigger than I expected as it is not supposed to be ready to harvest until August). The second batch isn't doing as well. These were put out before the last frost, and taken in at night (to avoid the frost), to take advantage of the warmer weather and sunlight. But they have not had the growth the first batch have had, they just seem spindly, but I think they will catch up. I have just planted another batch in the garden. I really think that the way these are sprouting they may catch up to the first batch. My original spacing was with 4 per sq ft, I think that is too far apart though, I think that you could probably squeeze 5 in a sq ft easily. I'm told the garlic leaves are edible (might be thought though), use them like green onions. Garlic may develop a bulb looking item on a stalk (and/or flower) this is a seed/clove and is also edible or you can plant it. I saw a video from some farmer on expertvillage.com and he had a great Idea. Intended for plantings in a garden, but works in a pot also. Say for example you have a garden full of winter vegetables right now, no room for garlic. Well what you do is plant the whole head of garlic in October like normal in a small area or a pot. The cloves sprout, you let them grow like normal till spring, then remove the bunch of sprouts and separate them (carefully) and transplant them where you want when the ground is ready, viola you have a jump start for the garlic. I have tried this, so far the plants seem good. Mint - grown from seed in a pot, grows and grows and grows... Once established will take over anything you put it in pot, garden, yard... beware the mint! Its not as bad as that, but I have heard the horror stories... Also I don't know why but... my mint sucks, It has no flavor, no aroma, little leaves. I'm gonna give it till the summer to shape up or I'm gonna compost the little sucker. Gonna have to find a better mint, suggest you try before you buy a plant. Oregano - Grown from seed, in pot, this might overwinter. Grows similar to mint with it's long stems,though they do grow a lot slow than mint. It might be able to grow up a trellis, and may be worth it as it has nice little flowers. The stems will take root to begin a new plant if you want, not sure about how to get the seeds though. Oregano in an 8 inch pot got root bound by end of the season. Sage - Was grown from seed in a pot, started last spring. It is a shrub so should have no problem overwintering. I have several plants in one 8 inch pot, does not seem root bound yet. Alright hope this helps, sorry I was so long winded!!.
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mtmomma
15 years ago
I can answer some of your ? And another good way to find answers for ? about your area is to go on Google and find the gardening extension offices in your area.Most colleges have great ones.
Hardening off means taking your plants outside for longer peiodes of time as it gets closer to planting time ,you need to pick a shady protected area to put them in. Start with a couple of hours then add time until you leave them out all night, then plant the next day.You need to do this everywhere.
Suckers are limbs that start at the base of the leaves on the tomato plant stalk.They should be pinched off,because they do not produce large tomatoes and draws nutrients away from the bigger tomatoes.As the plants get bigger it is hard to stay on top of pinching them back.
The pellets can be broken up when you transplant the seedling into larger peat pots ,so you can keep 2 seedling in each pellet.You need to keep them damp but not soggy.I give mine a good watering when first planting the seeds ,then put on the cover.Then use the best watering guide, your fingers,if dry, use a spray bottle of water to mist them.After the seedling have (I think it is their 3rd set of leaves) you can add a small amount of lq. fertlizer to the water.
Lola
maplegirl
Original Author
15 years ago
Thanks everyone!

Lola: I find when I use a mister to water the seedlings they fall over. It seems the power from the sprayer is too strong for them. So I've been just gently pouring water directly onto the pellets. Should I keep the bell peppers and lavender pellets moist as well? These have not sprouted yet.

Diggity: Yes, the leeks are in the pellets too. Is that a problem? Are leeks perennials like chives? They look exactly alike at this stage. Are all herbs except basil perennials?

keepitlow: Did you try Shake Away?
jillzee
15 years ago
Hi maplegirl,

Oregano is a perennial, and parsley can be if it doesn't get eaten by rabbits over the winter :)

My peppers always take a while longer to germinate than tomatoes and other seedlings.

Leeks are more like onions in that if you pull them up to eat them it won't come back, while with chives you just snip the tops. I believe that leeks can overwinter and seed the second year, but I've always just eaten mine, so I could be mistaken there. ;)

The fence is probably the best option for the groundhogs. My parents used to get them all the time and nothing kept them away as well as the fence (with it buried a foot deep and lined with rocks -- otherwise they're dedicated and will dig under the fence).

Best of luck!
Jill
diggity_ma
15 years ago
I think the leeks should be fine in the pellets, but for the future, you can save yourself some cost and time by planting many seeds in one pot. They don't mind being crowded. You can 20-30 seeds in one 3-inch pot. Just gently tease them apart when it's time to transplant. They'll be fine.

-Diggity
eaglesgarden
15 years ago
~ What are 'suckers' on tomatoes and what should I do about them?

Suckers are the branches that grow from the crotch, where the leaf branches meet the main stem. These will produce fruit just like the main stem, if permitted to grow.

What to do about them depends on a few factors:
1) what type of plant is it? If determinate DO NOT prune them. If indeterminate pruning is optional, but not necessary (see below).

2) what type of trellis are you going to use, and how much time do you want to spend on them? If you are using a heavy duty cage system to trellis like CRM, then you can let them go without any pruning. But, you will get smaller overall fruit than if you prune back to a single stem or two stems per plant. If you are staking, you want to prune everything back except the main stem. Then tie that stem to the stake (lots of information how to do this). If you wanted, you could put up two stakes and leave the BOTTOM sucker, but remove the others. There are a myriad of different ways of trellising, staking, caging, etc. tomatoes. Some people don't even do any of that, and let the tomatoes go on the ground like squash vines (of course, some people even trellis them!)

Good luck....keep a journal of what you try and how it works. Make adjustments year to year and find what works best for YOU! You have to enjoy whatever you are doing! It is a HOBBY, and you should enjoy it. If it becomes WORK, then you are definitely doing something WRONG!
digdirt2
15 years ago
Why not also check out the Growing from Seed forum here? It has many great step-by-step FAQs and how-to's plus many discussions on all stages of growing from seed.

Dave

Here is a link that might be useful: Growing from Seed Forum
kandm
15 years ago
I generally start hardening off vegetable seedlings when they're about 6 weeks old. I spend about 2 weeks carting seedlings inside and outside giving them a little more time outside each day. I avoid giving them too much water during these two weeks because I want them to get use to not always having a perfect environment. The purpose is to toughen them up so they won't drop dead the first week they're in the garden.

You can turn a fan on the seedlings for a gentle breeze to get them use to wind. Giving them this kind of "mechanical stimulation" or "thigmic stress" will make the seedling grow slower and stronger.
maplegirl
Original Author
15 years ago
I love the fan idea Kandm. Since the seedlings are at work, I will start with this. Maybe I can bring them out on my lunch hour. People at the office already think I'm crazy, so taking my plants for a walk really won't matter! :)

I am planning on putting the tomatoes against a trellis and tying them up as needed. Since I am only growing cherry tomatoes, should I ignore the suckers? They are indeterminate. (What does that mean?)

Has anyone grown brussel sprouts before? Do I need to stake them?
ten_yr_plan
15 years ago
many herbs make great additions to your flower gardens which are usually located closer to your house.
eaglesgarden
15 years ago
indeterminate tomatoes will grow and put on new fruit for as long as the weather will allow.

determinate tomatoes usually put on all their fruit for a set period of time and ripen within about 2 weeks of each other. You don't prune determinate tomatoes, because that will drastically reduce your yield.

Indeterminate tomatoes can get tremendously large and unorderly if not properly maintained, but will produce much more abundantly. If you are trellising your tomatoes (not caging) I would recommend pruning the suckers. You might want to leave the first two suckers and trellis them up as well (they will ALL need to be TIED to the trellis), or else they will collapse as they get longer and longer under the weight of the vines. Some cherry tomato plants can get tremendously long (some over 10 feet). If this is too long, an option would be to prune the END of the vine(s) when they reach a predetermined maximum, and then ALLOW the suckers to continue to grow from that point to get more fruit.

Lots of questions about starting seeds

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