Well, to start things off I would say a failure is Neptune Harvest Fish fertilizer. It was my experience with that which led me to Miracle Grow.

Potentially successful are the few organics that are water soluble. Seaweed extracts would qualify, but don't deliver much in the way of NPK.

That's all I got ;)

I will watch this thread with interest, but am not likely to participate further as I don't want anyone to even think they would get debate from me on this topic. Please considered this a JaG free thread and have at it ;)

KMama,

First, my sympathies for all the colds. There was a bad one going around last year that didn't go away for weeks. That, and a dying cat, kept me from doing anything with my containers except for putting a layer of compost on top, which was useless.
This year I have bought new containers, new plants, and made lots of gritty mix. I am using a small amount of MG Organic Choice fertilizer, which has the wrong NPK ratio, until I receive the 3-1-2 alfalfa meal I ordered. I will keep you informed about how it does.

Excellent thread! There is a family owned garden center here that has been around for over 20 years, and they are all organic. I got into a conversation with the owner over the phone about organic fertilizing in containers, and he said that he has been doing it successfully his entire career. I am going to go down there to find out what he is using and how it has been successful for him, and I will share with the forum what I find out.

:)

I have little scientific theory to add here but I can offer my own personal experience... Last year I grew 8 different chilli plants in SWCs (peat, perlite, vermiculite mix) and used a band of mixed 100% organic fertilizer- bat guano (N2 P15 K2 CA15 MG 0.08 + micro elements)and seagull guano (N11 P6). The ratio was 3:1 in favour of the bat guano. The plants were stunning, healthy and each produced an incredible amount of fruit. I will do exactly the same this year; in my case there is absolutely no reason to use non-organic fertilizers, none at all...

Thanks, can you list the brand name? -k

Sure...The seagull guano is COMPO GUANO and the bat guano, GUANOKALONG.

Last summer, I grew lettuce and basil in containers using 100% "Bumper Crop Organic Soil Amendment" from the local nursery. It comes in 2cubic foot bags. It is expensive. I'm not going to reuse the stuff from last year in my containers though...it compacted alot.

If you had the "secret" recipe, I'm sure you could create your own using a variation on Al's bark fines mix. Although I wonder if the real secret might be in how long they age the mix before selling it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bumper Crop Organic Soil Amendment

Not really a fertilizer, but vermicompost tea works very well with my container plants (as well as in ground plants).

I plant out very small plants, often just seedlings, and always water with vermicompost tea in the first month. They always respond with a burst of growth and greening.

Thought I would throw out a positive experience with something organic in containers, even if it doesn't exactly answer the OP.

I have been reading a book called "Gardening When it Counts: Growing food in Hard Times" by Steve Solomon. In it, he recommends what he calls "Complete Organic Fertilizer." It consists of:
Mix uniformly, in parts by volume:
4 parts seed meal*
1/4 part ordinary agricultural lime, best finely ground
1/4 part gypsum (or double the agricultural lime)
1/2 part dolomitic lime

Plus, for best results:
1 part bone meal, rock phosphate or high-phosphate guano
1/2 to 1 part kelp meal (or 1 part basalt dust)

*For a more sustainable and less expensive option, you can substitute chemical-free grass clippings for the seed meal, although clippings will not provoke the same strong growth response. Use about a half-inch-thick layer of fresh clippings (six to seven 5-gallon bucketfuls per 100 square feet), chopped into the top 2 inches of your soil with a hoe. Then spread an additional 1-inch-thick layer as a surface mulch.

He recommends 4-6 qts of this mix tilled in per 100 sq ft.

I am using it this year in my containers, so we'll see what happens!

Edit to above:

I had to modify this amount for containers. He talks about hill planting, and uses about 1 C. up this mixture in each hill. I planted in 5 gallon buckets, so I figure that's about the same as a hill. YMMV

That's interesting. But in something like the gritty mix, what's to keep the "mush" from rinsing out over time? The guano-based fertilizers seem to be very finely divided powders. I would think they would gradually go out via the drainage holes.

For this, my first year in container gardening, I have been religiously skulking around the edges of this forum :) many thanks for all the info! I elected to go with Pro-Mix BX as my soilless mix, as i was unsure if i could source all the components of Al's mixes. I have since found (and posted on the components list page) all of the ingredients. Next year! Now, I am mixing 40% compost into the pro-mix, and throwing in a couple of cups of Espoma Organic Garden-tone. I will use Espoma tomato-tone for the tomatoes (obviously!). So far, everything is growing lovely! I've got lettuce (5 varieties) kale, peas, green beans, carrots, radishes, allium family, cole crops, flowers of assorted types and oh yeah, chard. Nightshade family will go in soon, we've had 3 weeks of rain. I am planning on augmenting on a weekly basis with Neptune Seaweed (diluted), and maybe every 6-8 weeks (depending upon rains) top dressing the containers (a motley assortment of buckets, barrels and storage containers) with additional Espoma if the plants look like they need it. I also picked up some of the Espoma Lime and gypsum, just in case. All the espoma line is organic, so we shall see where I end up!

Diluted urine seems to be pretty effective. Reading a Swedish study it averages around 18:2:5 NPK. I have been applying it weekly a 1:4 to 1:5 ratio of dilution with collected rain water. I also do weekly foliar sprays with Neptune's Seaweed (1 oz.) and Compost tea (4 oz.) diluted with 1 gallon of rain water.

Of additional interest to those in this forum is that the phosphorus and potash components of urine are almost completely in an inorganic form in urine. The urea, however, needs to be processed to be made available.

All the espoma line is organic, so we shall see where I end up!

Sorry, I said this would be a JaG free thread, but I wanted to chime in for just a sec.

Up until this year the various *-tone products Espoma sold were part organic and part synthetic fertilizers.

This year they have been reformulated and now are all organic.

I have been in a few garden centers and noticed they are still carrying last year's formulations.

IOW, don't consider Espoma ferts organic unless you look on the bag to see the 'derived from' section where they detail the ingredients in the bag.

Along with the formulation change the NPK ratios went way down so more will likely be required to get the same effect as in years past.

If you can post pictures of your urine fed plants, please do, honestly. We keep hearing of pee around here lately, but no one is showing us proof here, for those that might want to give it a whirl or contemplate using it to advice such as yours.....
I still wouldn't even give think about using my urine or an animals for that matter....It doesn't sound right...

Sorry...:-)

JaG! Sorry, I didn't realize that espoma wasn't always organic...this is my first year with it :)Richmond, which is the only place that carries the big bags, had only the organic labeled stuff. I have been putting quite a bit in to each mix - I have been following Raybo's study on the Tomato-tone with great interest - and noted that he suggested using more as the ratios are much lower.

Myermike, you might want to read the study I linked to. Oh, but I'm sure the Swedes are just giving in to the big piss lobby. I could show you some pictures of plants, but I'm sure there would be some other problem with that. Honestly, if you are not interested why should I bother?

I provided a link to a study, which I backs up my claims. I then detailed how I am currently organically feeding my containers. If that is not sufficient or you think it is gross then you are free to ignore it.

Thanks!

I use Neptunes Harvest(www.Neptunesharvest.com) and
sea solids(www.seaagri.com) Both work well for me.
My container plants usually do better than those planted in the ground. I have very heavy clay soil.

When preparing my containers, I do mix in some homemade compost for the benificial fungi and bacteria.

Yamagami's in Cupertino sells I believe a Dr. Earth 3-3-3 liquid organic fert. I used it last year in the ground and had great results. Dont know how effective it would be in a container as I used Dr. Earth's 5-7-4 organic granular last year in all my SWC's. My raised beds are all organic, the sad thing is that I had it tested late last year and found out that it contained way too much P.

Damon

KMama, For me, Earth Juice was one of the best liquid organic fertilizers I tried, but kinda stinky. I diluted it more than recommended but applied more frequently. There are different formulas, depending on what NPK ratio you prefer.
Vermicompost & tea also got great results.
Also had really good results with mycorrhizal fungi. They do not associate w/ brassica, but really helped my tomatoes and many other veggies. This allows you to use less fertilizer, as the fungi helps the plant extract more nutrients more efficiently.
For plants with higher N demand, alfalfa pellets from the feed store worked really well.

Here is a link that might be useful: Earth Juice Grow

Boy, I sure would like to see some plant PICTURES! Lots of talk here but nobody showing any results....

I am going to try alfalfa meal as well as the liquid fertilizer Al suggested, Foliage Pro. I have ordered both. I noticed that the Foliage Pro folks sell a watering can that you attach a bottle of fertilizer to, and it automatically dilutes it. The fertilizer it fits doesn't have the 3-1-2 ratio, but I wonder, if I really like this stuff, if I couldn't put the 3-1-2 into the non-3-1-2 bottle (also probably diluted half-and-half with water) . I like to grow herbs and nasturtiums, so I'm nervous about overfertilizing and not getting good blooms. That's one of the main reasons I am considering solid organic fertilizer, so I can put less near the nasturtiums. We have had so much rain lately, I haven't had to water for ages. I had terrible cabin fever yesterday, and kept going outside to my tiny front patio to read, retreating every time we had another shower, then going back out and drying off the chair and trying to sit outside again. This morning we had the first strong morning sunshine in a couple of weeks, and I had a glorious sun-infused breakfast, followed by planting the rest of the nasturtium seeds. A few I planted last week are coming up!

Here is a link that might be useful: I know this is inorganic, but they sell organic liquid fertilizers as well.

I don't know where I read this on gardenweb, but urine mixed with ash theoretically makes the perfect fertilizer. I wish I could find the thread

Jag, I used plant tone last yr which then was the only completely org fert offered. The npk value remained the same this yr but some great components were deleted and chicken shxt added in their place. I was using a half cup or so per 5 gal container but will lighten up this yr as chicken shxt can burn a plant quick time if not careful.

Hi takadi,
High pH favors ammonia Nitrogen gasification, meaning N lost to the air.
Urea N of urine would be included in this situation of high pH = N loss.
Wood ash is generally going to raise the pH quickly, so you'd need a 2 stage strategy of phased applications (ie: not using them at same time together).
If you are willing to monitor pH of your fertigation regimen you can adjust a top watering nutrient solution to use both together as plant develops & you cater to different crops' stages.
If you get in trouble with containers there is the imperfect option to flush the growing medium.
(For your orientation consider 0.02# wood ash/square ft. of substrate mix at the start of season & then wait 2 weeks for pH to stabilize before use urine for N. If you are over head watering with a lot of leaching as a result then may want to reapply some wood ash & again withhold urine temporarily.)

gringo, I was under the impression that urine was acidic, thus the wood ash would simply neutralize it and at the same time provide it with the necessary amounts of potassium and phosphorus

Hi takadi,
Brief moment to say:
Urea is the nitrogen form you would get into play & it's behavior would influence your grow.
Urine has other components, so urine pH can vary; that easily testable pH is end result of body biochemistry.

Just wondering how everyone's organic containers are doing? This was my first year having really delved into why containers are different from soil. For a few years after leaving a home with 3 acres and a large garden, and moving into a high rise condo, I was determined to grow containers as I did my garden.

I kept failing. I had poor yields and plants that never were healthy. My soil turned to mush and was much too wet. So, this year, lots of reading.

I WANT organic to work in containers. Even if it's harder for me to do. But, so far, I'm not having a lot of luck.

This year I kept two sets of containers. Both were with a traditional peat, vermiculite, perlite mix, though I threw in about 5% compost. It wasn't enough to really offer any nutrition, I am afraid, so I won't do it again.

Per the ferts, I've used all organic ferts in four of the containers. I used BioTone Starter Plus as a starter for the tomatoes and lettuce; this was amazing in terms of helping the roots systems get established. I've never seen such healthy root systems at transplant.

In two tomato containers, I used Tomato Tone. My plants are doing better than they have in the past, but are still not as large or happy as they used to be when I planted in the ground. It could also be the strange weather we've had. While this fert is in the ground (these are covered EarthBoxes), I have been top feeding some Silica Blast and EarthJuice Catalyst to keep the soil alive with what it needs to turn the ferts into what the plant can use.

In the Chinese greens container, I used a combo of Maxicrop fish and kelp ferts that got me close to a 3:1:2 ratio. I didn't have a non-OG container to compare it to. They grew OK and tasted fine. I hadn't grown them before so I don't know how to compare. They seemed to grow more slowly than I expected based on the packet dates.

In the OG lettuce and chard container, I used PureBlend PRO Grow, a 3-2-4 fert. It was the closest I could get to a 3:1:2 ratio in OG. I also used the EJ Catalyst. The lettuce was excellent. It compared favorably to the lettuce grown with the chemical fert. But, the chard has not. It's stayed small and the edge leaves keep turning yellow. I do think that part of the problem is watering. I do not have a place for a rainbarrel and must use city water. It has HIGH chlorine. It kills all the good critters I have in the soil. Initially, when the water need was low, I could put water in pails and let it sit for a couple of days before using it to let the chlorine dissapate. As the need for water grew, I couldn't keep up and had to water with chlorinated water. By then, I was probably killing all the good stuff.

On the other hand, the chard in the chem fert container is huge. No question, my chard prefers this. I am using Dyna-Gro Poliage Pro and Pro-tekt.

One tomato is fertilized with the same as above. It has had an odd history. It was an extra and the only place I could put it is hanging. So, in a TopsyTurvy it went. About a month after transplant, I realized that the stem was breaking where the foam insert rubbed against it; it was literally held together by a few strands. I cut it off, rooted it in water, then replanted. So, it's about a month behind the other tomatoes. It looks great at this point, but I can't as yet compare yields or even size, since it is so far behind.

The okra and beans are using the chem fert, also. Both are doing well, but no comparison to an OG version. Next year, if I try a comparison again, I'll try to grow same type of plants, even same varieties, in each, so that I can better compare.

I honestly think that I'm screwed unless I can come up with a relatively easy solution for the chlorinated water. I do not have much space and the condo board will not allow me to tap into the water spouts to add a rain barrel. It was much too much work to fill gallon containers with water (you should have seen my bathroom...) and then try to get that water into the reservoirs of my SWCs.

No question, non-OG is easier. I am making OG work, however, in most situations. If I didn't have the water issue, I'd be able to give it a better comparison, I think.

Next year I will try some version of the 5:1:1 mix in my SWC. I haven't a clue what I'll do about the OG vs non-OG fert issue then. I am hoping someone has tackled this and found a way to make it work without too much added work.

I grow almost exclusively in EarthBox (brand name and DIY) and other containers. I use the Espoma Organic fertilizers TomatoTone, PlantTone, GardenTone and BioTone Starter. I have great success with this. I also use organic fertilizers blood meal, bone meal and fish/kelp emulsion. Just now starting to try RichEarth Soil Conditioner and Molasses.

DL

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:26696}}

FWIW - I use only soluble synthetics (like Miracle-Gro, Peter's, Foliage-Pro) in containers and get what I think are much better than average results. I've also posted many pics that could be considered evidential.

Al

I used organic MG potting mix and the earthbox organic fertilizer. I'm just getting lots of tomatoes on the vine because of the weather and my lack of sun - only around 4 hours direct afternoon sun. All was well but for one box that had one plant that was getting purple stems and some leaves so I went non organic and added some high P water soluble synthetic 3-10-3 fertilizer (the highest P I could find - it's seedling fertilizer)The plant is doing great now and producing lots of fruit. How everything will taste - we'll have to wait till September.