I am not sure I understand your question timbu. You thought that the construction workers were dressed to go to a disco and your friend thought that Europeans dress up more than is good for them is that right? One being natural, the neon orange, and the weird stuff being decadent? If I am correct then your question could also be the other way around i.e. "Are there landscapes, parks, gardens in America that would come across as alien in Europe?" We are assuming that both 'America' and 'Europe' are conglomerates when it comes to fashion.

When I first read the title, I immediately thought "the low dollar", but now that I've read the whole question, I'd say most of my impressions from Europe relating to landscaping, gardens, and parks have been very positive.

In my limited experience, I get the feeling Europeans are very conscious of beauty, and they assign value to beauty, to a higher degree than the average American. Tourist impressions can be misleading; maybe we only see the primped parts of a city and miss the ordinary everday grind faced by its citizens, I don't know. But Europe looks beautiful to me, even the strange constructions of Gaudi in Spain.

Small beauty, doorstep in Cinque Terre, Italy
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Grand beauty, the Alhambra, Spain
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Ancient, semi-wild beauty, Moorish castle remnants, Sintra, Portugal
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Imaginative beauty, Parc Guell, Barcelona, Spain
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Windowsill garden, Barcelona, Spain
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Recycled beauty, Atocha train station, Madrid, Spain
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Agrarian beauty, Tuscany, Italy
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Urban beauty, Rome, Italy
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That is all 'so Euro' to me.

I hesitated, for fear of "starting something", but, Ink, perhaps answers like yours above are why there's a thread here titled "Where did everyone go?"

"Some fashions just don't feel at home on the other side."

"Now I'm wondering, is there an equivalent of this gap in landscaping? Are there landscapes, parks, gardens in Europe that would come across as alien in America?"

Timbu, I think your last three sentences present the question clearly. Unfortunately, I'm not familiar enough with anything in Europe (maybe someday) to answer that question with any authority.

However, I do like gardens to have what someone referred to as a "sense of place"; in other words, belonging or fitting in their environment. Our continent is blessed with a diversity of environments - subtropical to high desert to, well, maybe not sub-arctic, but pretty darn cold; mountains, hills, plains, sandy beaches and rocky shores. I believe the European continent, to some degree, has similar. So I would expect it's more a matter of the garden/park/etc. being in keeping with its environment.

An example of the opposite: We're by the shore, in an area full of oaks, maples and pines, all underplanted with rhododendron, azalea, pieris, ivy and whatever perennials homeowners have planted. A neighbor down the road has created a sort of desert style garden. Gravel, huge boulders, yuccas and other succulents, adobe-like walls. It is impressive. But it's across the street from a saltwater marsh! It just looks out of place. To each his own, however, and I certainly prefer that over a run-down property.

BTW, around here, if you see workers in orange jumpsuits by the side of the road, it's probably a team from a prison out doing service time cleaning up litter. Hardly "clubbing", LOL.

Most of the beauty in those pictures is old. America has less of that, although there is certainly some places where there are old missions or colonial era buildings and other features. But there are also ancient traditions and techniques in the old world that we don't have - at least not with the same continuity.

I've only been to parts of England but it was striking how the towns and countryside there didn't look as trashy as ours do, for the most part (didn't see the miles of low income areas in London - although even there they probably often have the harmonious coordinated architecture - same building materials, even when not same designs - that was prevalent elsewhere).

"Euro" has a modern vibe to me. Like men in skinny pants - the whole Metrosexual thing. And women in shiny silver short dresses with eye shadow and a wig to match. Discos with pulsing dance music.

I've only seen limited parts of Western Europe and am most familiar with France, Switzerland and Italy.

The landscapes there, oddly, don't make me think "Euro". I think more of the classic French gardens, tumbling ancient stone walls, secret courtyard gardens, and the warm earth tones of Italy, and Southern France.

European, yes. Euro, no.

Don't know why there's such a distinction in my mind, but there is.

I was, of course, joking when I said they were going to a disco. But I suppose you understood my question more or less the way it was meant. I had thought the fashion world was globalized to the extent of removing regional differences - and yet, was proven wrong. Though a big and diverse country, a person from Maine and a few more from Minnesota (aged between 25/35) agreed on what they perceived as "euro."
Now back to alien landscapes -
Would the use of, say, bright colored plastic furniture in a high end landscape, next to a polished granite path and well-maintained topiary, be "euro" to you, or would it be "california" or "hawaii" perhaps?
Reversing the question: are there landscapes in America that come across as alien in Europe? Yes there are; but these are being adopted here at a fast pace, and while perceived as "american" now, may become commonplace in the future. Theme parks, suburban developments around golf courses, even ranch-style architecture is being copied. I'll give you more examples when I remember them.
Another difference (nothing to do with fashion here), is the perception of space, and methods of orientation.
I myself experienced a mild agoraphobia when first landing in MN (I've heard the same happened to the first settlers in the prairie) - the grid pattern of the city left me feeling like "nowhere to hide". I was amazed how the locals seemed adapted to it. I was desperate for some kind of "landmark", gravitating toward rivers and lakeshores - these, at least, were not straight. I demanded to be taken to a spot where I could see both Mpls and St Paul downtown skyline, to get some idea of the dimensions. This kind of "alien-ness" is probably more permanent, since it sprouts from the natural landscapes.

Oh, i posted before I saw the other replies!
Kailleanm, your definition of "euro" is exactly what my friends in MN meant.
Gardenstate, don't worry - I'm not spooked by Ink's comments.

It's all in what you're used to. As you discovered, MPLS/ST. Paul metro area has landmarks - just not so obvious to the foreign visitor as, say, all roads leading to a Market Cross or an open plaza. I loved the winding streets of Europe's cities where nothing larger than a pedestrian, bicycle, or scooter dare venture. But when getting from point A to point B, a straight line in the grid system is quite convenient.

"Euro"? And I used to see that thrown around more in the past followed by -trash". An American stereotype that may or may not be a pejorative. It always brought to mind techno music with robot dancing; or to the kind of snobbery that would incline someone to refer to their Barcelona Chair seating as the "Mies van der Rohe's".

Where did we get our ideas for mazes, knot gardens, hedge rows, kitchen gardens and potagers, outdoor spaces as "living" rooms, vistas leading to a Roman copy of a Greek sculpture, and on and on if not from examples carried from across the pond? I think it all translates to a certain degree, but even sameness has differences.

bboy - if you ever get back to London, take a look at one the council housing apartment neighborhoods. Like being on a the dark side of the moon.

Euro to me means - lots of color with every hue imaginable crammed together often in small spaces.

I think about all the Polish, Czech, Italian & Mexican people round here (first generation that is) - You go in their homes and everything is a kaleidascope of color from the walls to the furniture.

On the outside they're not afraid to have geraniums, impatiens, roses & silk flowers all thrown together in pots and around the yard.

When I think Americans - I think bland like oatmeal. You go into their homes and you see beige walls, beige carpeting & oversized matching oak dining room sets.

Same applies to outside - there seems to be a fear of color or doing anything that is beyond the norm of tidy lawns with boring evergreen foundation plantings and Pygmy Barberry shrubs.

The reason I asked for clarity is that the subject is vast and I wanted to be sure what we were talking about.
Garden styles have always been influenced by travel, until recently only a privileged few could afford to travel and these were the people who brought their memories of Italy home to England. And those who traveled from America to England did the same. Now most of us can afford to travel or have seen pictures of other lands, some emigrate taking their style of garden, amongst other cultural influences, with them. America probably has the largest mixture of immigrants and the style and culture that comes along. This is probably why although there is a fairly distinct Japanese or Italian style, the America style is more eclectic.
Another influence is leisure time and climate, outdoor living took on a whole different meaning when ordinary people had some and if those people lived in California then you can see how the way people live influences garden style. The computer boom influenced Seattle gardens as the Medici's influenced Roman gardens.
I should stop there and get back to your question, I guess. Most people who have ideas about something gathered from hearsay rather than personal knowledge are using stereotypes or perpetuating myths. What is funny is that the description of Euro given above reminds me of Rowan and Martin's Laugh In a decidedly American phenomenon.

American suburban...can good landscape design help this?

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-Ron-

That certainly puts it all into perspective, doesn't it? Somehow when you see it like that, it's not the "American Dream" - it's an apartment complex blown apart to its individual flats.

(In review: Most zero-lot line homes are built directly on the edge of a lot's outer boundary (hence the name) and are usually only about 10 feet apart and share a common fence with a neighbor. They generally have either small front yards or small back yards and just a thin strip of turf for side yards.)

Gonativegal, I found no shortage of color in America, as the photos linked below will testify!

Here is a link that might be useful: Minnesota and elsewhere

Well at least those neighborhoods in the above aerial photos have architectural unity instead of looking like the contents of a spilled garbage can strewn about over the land.

See this is where I get lost, your message is too cryptic for me to understand bboy. Are you saying that euro landscapes are like a spilled garbage can?

Unplanned development, with structures of all different styles scattered around without relation to one another. At least with something like that shown above there is some harmony, a framework. Individuality can come out within the unifying whole through furnishing of the interior and exterior spaces. Each living room and garden could be very different from the next.

haha! finally I have teased something out of you bboy. What you are saying is interesting although not relevant to this particular question, do you want to start a separate discussion on this? Is the subject about an overall sameness being good as the big picture while allowing individual expression close up? An interesting other thread, do you want to post it or shall I?

Actually what those housing pictures immediately brought to mind was the thread on looking down on your garden... The house pictures definitely are a pattern on the ground! And one that has an odd sort of beauty when viewed from above, at a distance. There's certainly unity and abundance there too :-)

The first aerial photo makes a fine abstract painting - I can even imagine it hanging on my wall. Its livability, for me, would depend on the presence of big, mature trees.

Scene: Inside a Big Box Store whose name rhymes with "mows", "blows", or "goes". European Husband (mine--Austrian citizen) and American Wife (that would be me) are wandering around thinking about spring projects. European Husband wants to look for exterior lamps as those currently in use are in very sad shape. The two meander to the correct aisle and survey the available decorative exterior lighting

European Husband (sounding completely disgusted): I saw lamps just that one time that would have workedsimple, appropriate style for our homeEverything here is either Baroque or VictorianThere aren't that many Victorian homes around here, and even fewer where Baroque makes senseharrrumph

American Wife: Yes, dear.

European Husband (muttering under his breath): Ridiculouslamp after lamp, but all of them are pseudo fu-fu crap. Just another proof of America's complete lack of taste.

American Wife: But, dear, this isn't exactly the place where we can expect high quality. There are other sources, but we might have toahempay a little more.

The above scene took place this past week. We went on to wonder exactly why certain styles are more prevalent in such stores. When I think of how many stop in at this forum wanting a "cottagy" look, the Victorian emphasis makes sense. I know, I know, the cottage garden really has older, more plebian roots than the Victorian era, but lots of gardeners want a blended over-flowing, arbor draped, gazebo, fountain-spilling garden that references what is conceived of as coming from some time in the 19th century. Orthey want curvilinear form and ornamentation and so gravitate twoard the Baroque. Never mind that they're taking their new lamp home to put up on the exterior of their ranch. Ormaybe they're like me and my husband, reduced to choosing from what is cheap and available or going home with no lamp. Maybe it's the directors of stores with a name that rhymes with mows, blows, or goes, who like pseudo Victorian and Baroque crap.

This stuff really, really, really bugs my husband. Most of the time he doesn't say anything, but when it comes to selecting something for our home, he really places a high priority on "fitness". It might have something to do with the fact that his father was the director of the office in Austria in charge of renovating all buildings and monuments in Vienna.

We've talked about style and materials that fit a site, and connections between a buildings architecture and choices in the landscape. My husband constantly notices the "weirdness" of American homesstyles that are centuries and continents apart in homes built side-by-side. And all the homes are new. But thenwe don't bother much to keep to whatever style is represented in the home.

My husband's biggest laugh when we purchased our raised ranch was what the previous owner had done in the main living area. The detailing in the moldings was all Empireor neo-Egyptian, if you like. He could hardly keep from rolling on the floor over the window treatment, and was enormously thankful that the previous owner insisted that the hugely ornate curtain rods and curtain would not be staying with the house.

My husband actually likes our house. He likes the simplicity of line. So, he can't understand this tendency to makeovers that seem out of place.

I think I'm not really on-topic here, but that's where my brain wandered to after reading above. I might come back and say more about some of my impressions from visiting the in-laws in Europe.

Wellspring

I've never posted to the Landscape Design forum before, but, I'm going to go ahead and make myself unpopular by saying, in general, Europeans have better taste than Americans. At least when it comes to gardens. I'll get to that in a moment, but I can't resist addressing the non-garden matters. The OP's first paragraph is suggesting a connection was made between clubbing in orange overalls and the "decadence" of European culture? Quite ridiculous, and I'd say there are plenty of counter examples. US teens have higher rates of out-of-wedlock pregnancies and STDs than Western European teens. Who's looking decadent now? And as for fashion...go to London during regular summer weather (mid 70s) and you will see that British young people (Michael Alig American? Yes he was.

Back to gardens: I'm going to take London and Edinburgh as examples because those are the cities I've extensively visited (but have also been to Paris, Geneva, the Cote d'Azur, Stuttgart and Munich). In every one of these places, but especially London and Edinburgh, the quality of the residential gardens is much better than in American cities. MAYBE in a really wealthy part of DC, Boston, Seattle or San Francisco, or other coastal US cities, you see a private urban landscape that is really impressive, but in London you can have whole streets where EVERY front garden is filled with tastefully arranged and interesting plants. AND importantly not just in the wealthiest areas. Now a few things are worth mentioning: as bboy notes, Europe had a huge head start. To some degree the "romanticism" of the European landscape is because it HAD to be that way. When a town was growing in the middle ages and later enlightenment eras, you couldn't have hideous sprawling suburbia because technology at the time didn't allow it. You had to have most of the middle class living in dense towns, you had to keep open space outside the town to grow crops to support the population because you weren't moving grain in from 1000 miles away by train, etc. They also had an advantage in that when industrialization did take place, it was at a slightly earlier point in the "technological arc", if you will, and therefore my impression is that the style was often more classic, reflecting a 19th century worldview, rather than utilitarian 20th century one. Take the Clifton Suspension Bridge, something I'm sure is taken for granted by Bristolians. In America it likely would have been built about 40-70 years later and of a more utilitarian design simply because by that point "Modern" building materials like steel and concrete would be more prevalent. Another example: I live in an area now with a lot of field stone, and a local person I know said, "I wonder why the residents of XXXX county didn't build stone walls like they did in Ireland." My response: Well...the people in Ireland got started 1000 years earlier, and they didn't have barbed wire! (AND they DID NOT have a sense of infinite land being available to the West) Mind you I live in a very old area by American standards. But as for this aspect of the culture, I'm not saying one is better for being older, or younger, because that would be crazy, obviously it cannot be changed. Maybe we take for granted our newness. I remember a French family who were friends of ours visited us in the 1990s for a week. They then drove to St. Louis, specifically to see the arch. My family thought, why in the world, of all the things in America, would they want to see the St. Louis Arch? Well...they were probably impressed by its vision of newness and boldness. (tho it was designed by a European, there is something quite American about it) When I next visit the UK, I want to visit the Clifton Suspension Bridge! And I'm sure some British person will ask, why on Earth does he want to visit that?

Also, yes, the climate of Europe is milder, but I don't see that as an excuse for most Americans. (North Dakotans excepted) You don't have to have meconopsis to have a beautiful garden. One can be in a place where a good selection of broad-leaf evergreens grow - let's just take the DC/Balto suburbs, and still see idiots who plant their yard like it is North Dakota (sorry, North Dakotans) forsythia, lilac, hideous maple that is too big for the lot, etc. Not a BLE in sight. I've heard that in the PNW, some "home owners associations" have forced people to cut down the beautiful evergreen native Madrone tree! And yet they allow people to plant eastern, therefore non-native sugar maples! Sickening! I really can't say it better than Catkim: "I get the feeling Europeans are very conscious of beauty, and they assign value to beauty, to a higher degree than the average American". Plants that stay green all winter are just more aesthetically pleasing, overall, than ones that look like a bunch of dead twigs for 1/2 the year. That's my "opinion" but it's fairly well backed up in terms of non-horticulturalists actual experiences with visiting gardens and public spaces. Of course I speak in generalities. Anybody out there can make the best of what they have garden-wise. Americans often just have other priorities. I remember being in the wealthy section of Denver, near the Denver Botanic garden, and seeing a few city lots beautifully landscaped with herbaceous perennials and high desert plants that are well adapted to the climate there. In a case like that, well, you can't grow BLEs but you can still have a beautiful garden.

One last thing I can't resist harping on is McMansions. Most of the the wealthy in America truly don't have time to have taste. The hideous architecture aside, it REALLY cracks me up that there seems to be a mindset that more plants in front=we must have more money=we must have better taste. This {{gwi:13181}} is actually somewhat more tasteful than some, but is perfectly illustrative: why would you want your 4.2 million dollar facade blocked by 2 large trees? NO european stately homes (out in the country) have such ridiculous landscapings. Lets go on a tour of some famous ones:
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A number of famous British Estates like Knightshayes and Powis Castle are deceptive: their most famous images show a lot of blocking {{gwi:13190}}, but that's not the front! Better to put one's equestrian statues there, {{gwi:13192}}!

A relative of mine has a huge, custom-built home in a wealthy suburb of an Eastern Metropolis. It is palatial but almost as non-McMansiony as you can get, short of building every exterior wall of concrete block and having poured concrete floors with a plenum space under a wood subfloor like a commercial building. (which I'm sure someone out there is still insanely rich enough to do) I proposed a very simple landscape plan of low evergreens that would have been in keeping with the style. Yes, I use an authentic, TASTEFUL American colonial mansion-type building as an example. They got an estimate from the supposed "most prestigious landscape architect" in their area. He came up with a HIDEOUS scheme that had not one, but TWO layers of medium sized trees blocking the front of the house - and far more egregious, the view from the front steps of the house over a wide 1 mile wide valley. Rutgers Dogwoods, and for some reason, fastigiate Hornbeams. At least they were kind of upscale plants- probably just so he could get a bigger markup on them. Needless to say I encouraged him not to do this. The people who have that much land (10 acres), and actually have taste, usually put the collectible goodies in a detached garden, or at least around back.

One more thing, is that somewhere here will say "oh you're a east coast snob, I live in Branson, MO and I have a beautiful urban garden" and I'm sure you do. But the people here are obviously a quite small self-selecting group. FWIW, I'll say I've seen some tastefully landscaped true mansions - i.e. lovely 1890s to 1940s large houses - in the upscale suburbs of Chicago, Lake Forest I think although I was being driven to a work site so I'm not really sure where it was.

Errr... I didn't mean to start a thread of America-bashing! Maybe if you took a look here, in the "young" Europe, you'd feel better. "Young", of course, is a relative concept - we've had a long history, but much of it has been too turbulent for gardens to develop peacefully. Award- winning gardens still tend to be of the "collection" type, scoring extra points for the number of exotic plants growing in them. There's interesting stuff being done in architecture and interior design, but gardens, to my mind, are still in a developmental stage, and I find there's things to learn from both continents. BTW, I predict a local boom of landscaping in the next 10-20yrs.

Hey, Timbu-

Trust me, I don't let my husband go too far with the "Americans have no taste" thing. As I tried to point out to him at the time, you can't measure taste by what's available at the Big Box Stores. At the same time those commercial enterprises play a huge part in shaping what is generally available.

I just recently read a 10 year old book on the culture of olives. There is a move toward more mechanized, quicker processes. At present those who live in Italy, France, Spain, North Africa, and the Middle East have immediate access to traditions that are thousands of years old of hand-crafted oil. They don't have to lable it "artisan", although often that's what it is. It's just what is available.

I'm not sure about the Euro - European thing. I re-read the posts, but the distinction isn't clear to me. I can tell you what one of our most alien experiences was on our last visit to central Europe. It was the absolute silence on our visits to the countryside and mountains. My parents-in-law have retired to a country property. I am an extremely audial person. On waking up in the morning I expect to hear birdsong. There was none.

Once I'd noticed this absent sound, it began to freak me out. Very, very alien. Driving around in the mountainsstill no birdsong. When I came home, I felt compelled to "check" my impressions. Do we really have so much more bird activity here? Yesradically, boistrously, border-line extravagantly. In our suburban yard we can expect an incredible range of visiting bird and animal life.

So, that was an eerie, alien experience. My in-laws tried to blame feral cats and Italians. I didn't have the heart to point out that we have feral cats, too. As to the Italians? Apparently they like to eat song birds.

Wellspring

I wish I could leave david's post alone but I have been picking at it like a scab all day and I have to say something before it gets really sore.
There are so many inaccuracies in what he says that I don't know where to begin and then I read back over this thread to see that someone with a garden state of mind thinks that asking for clarification on an issue is somehow spooky so I think I will put on an elastoplast instead.

Inkognito, by all means, say what you wish to say. Do not hold it in. I would like to know about my inaccuracies. Intelligent, confident people are perfectly willing to carry on a debate.

I wanted to be provocative which is why I introduced my post the way I did. I sometimes try to shake things up a little bit here in the ye olde gardenweb forums because it can be pretty boring sometimes. At times I exaggerated to make my point. Also I was really breezing along and maybe not formulating my ideas as well as I might have wanted to. The only inaccuracy I thought might exist, after writing it BUT before seeing your post, is that I've read that some parts of New England have colonial stone walls. I see from your profile you are from Canada. I presume there are some in Eastern Canada too. Sure, but they cannot be as prevalent on this continent as they are on the British Isles and parts of France.

Are there chateaux in France whose front facade is lined with white birches planted 10 ft away from the foundation, that I don't know about? Do some Americans return from winter vacations in the subtropics or southern California and say "all those plants that don't lose their leaves - hideous!" Are there vast stretches of UK suburbia landscaped with nothing but syringas, peonies and Scots Pine? Nary a Cordyline or Fuchsia magellanica in sight? (I KNOW they aren't dumb enough to plant giant american sugar maples on a 1/5 acre lots there, so I was trying to think of an equivalently run-of-the-mill tree for them) Please...share your thoughts!

I really wish when I visited the UK in the mid 90s there had been digicams so I could have photographed 100s of residential gardens to prove my point, but I didn't. I spent more time in Edinburgh and I remember walking down streets and spending an hour on one block just surveying new-to-me rare and beautiful plants in people's gardens. I remember seeing Morinas. I remember seeing those exotic lilies like Nomocharis or the other genus whose name escapes me. Obviously I saw meconopsis. I remember artful combinations of Euphorbias and some kind of campion or lychnis. Often not a weed in sight for a whole block - and in the ditches the beautiful Himalayan Impatiens grew as weeds! If it's any "consolation" I fully realize that culture is dying, even there, I would not be surprised if in a couple generations time the British are no more a nation of gardeners than we are.

FWIW, I'll also say that a non-gardening friend of mine who visited Dublin said she was absolutely blown away by the quality of people's residential gardens there compared to anywhere in the US she'd been. Not that she knew the specific plants, just that they were lovely and well-kept.

Obviously, my aesthetic sensibilities run toward that of the collector. Cordylines ARE run of the mill plants for people in the UK. That's why Martin, the owner of Palmcentre.co.uk was whizzing around in a huge Mercedes in the late 90s, because he was making good money selling brits even more exciting subtropicals. You don't HAVE to have rare plants to make a beautiful garden, but in my opinion they help. Still you could have a hideous garden of common plants or an attractive one, which is why I cited the McMansion example. To say, even when some Americans make pretentions to nobility - and that's what those monstrosities generally are* - they can't even get the details of the landscape right, much less the architectural stylization.

* Nytimes, Alison Leigh Cowan, March 13 2006:
"On North Street, after all, there is a much-ogled replica of Louis XV's Petit Trianon." Speaking of Greenwich Conn. I believe. Granted people THAT rich probably did get the landscaping right.

I must admit i havnt read every single line in all the posts so excuse me if i repeat any thing that people have already said but im a bit lazy!
Firstly i will comment on the opening post. Every single one of us stereotypes to some degree, and the builders looking EURO is one of those, to be honest here in Britain some people share those stereotypes of our mainland bretheren, but having lived on the mainland of Europe i would say some people live up to those stereotypes but only a tiny minority!

Now thats out of the way i would like to talk about the cultures of Europe that make it so totally diverse. To bracket something into being 'Euro', i believe is totally wrong, just look at the differences of style and culture between the southern European nations E.G Spain and that of a northern European one E.G Britain or Holland, completely different!
The thing is in Europe we have thousands of years worth of culture and that is what has given us our diversity.
You could say the states has thousands of years with the native americans but not many towns/cities are stylised on their culture!
The US compared to pretty much any European country is very young as a nation, BUT because of the way in which your country was born it has assimilated styles, ideas and culture from pretty much all of them! And that is think is wonderful.
I think when people say that Europe is 'more beautiful'..... 'Americans have less taste' etc, it is just a matter of personal opinion as to what ones' own style is!
I personally love the fact that i am so close to other nations/cultures that are so utterly different to the British!
To a degree i believe some European gardens would look alien in the states but then again i think some European gardens would look out of place or alien in Europe.
Altogether i think a garden can look beautiful wherever/however its stylised, and often look to this website for ideas from people all over the world. Diversity is what makes life interesting!

I'm a little surprised at the deafening silence. Gathering thoughts to mount a defense of Americans and their landscaping habits, I hope.

No, "east coast snob" didn't come to mind first, but an appellation made famous by the late Spiro Agnew did. As did an old SNL skit in which "if it's not Scottish, it's cr@p", was oft repeated. I think just about everything has been said about the American gotta put something here style of decorating (exterior as well as interior), but we're that particular bunch of people who borrow from everything we like and think is good and make it our own in some fashion. It's that quirkiness which is quintessentially American and perhaps one of our more endearing qualities. All of what we know comes from somewhere else. In some small way we all look at OUR yards and see, rightly or wrongly,(name drop alert) what Prince Phillip must see in Windor Great Park from the window if his Land Rover. In effect, it's our own little realm that has the potential to graduate from the ersatz elegance of Pottery Barn, Crate & Barrel, and HGTV to develope a truly American style that passes muster with even our harshest critics.

It's too easy to cite the great houses (and gardens) of Europe to point out our shortcomings. You look at them and see testaments to wealth, power, status, and taste yet look at, say, the Newport "cottages" and see pretentiousness with bad landscaping, to boot. We lose on all accounts by virtue of being here and not there. I would think the average British person would feel right at home in many of our cities and towns, trees, assorted shrubbery, and flowers notwithstanding - how familiar they'd be with all the West Ridings, the Devonshires, the Knightsbridges, The Oaks (in silent memory of what disappeared to make room for homes in dubious architectural styles). Yes, even though not British, I do know attaching a few brown boards over cream or white stucco does not a Tudor make.

I like it here - I like Europe too. But if I read some of these postings correctly, maybe it would be kinder and gentler to think of Europe as having arrived while we're still trying to get there, overcoming one disappointing yard at a time.

Well, enough rambling. I'd better check under the 3' of snow which is finaly starting to recede and see if the Nomocharis is sprouting.

Dave route 28's post reminds me of a story I read in a book about WWII (sorry I can't remember the book's name) that highlights the American character.

In a country just liberated from the Germans during World war II, American trops were drilling and marching in formation. Every soldier moved in a slightly differant way than there brethern, and the soldiers were being observed by the local population. During these drills the locals could be seen smiling and snickering, so the American were determined to practice more. The soldiers marched around, but still exhibited their individualism despite being in a disciplined group. Frustrated one of the soldiers asked on on-looker why there were amused by their marching, and the reply was "You march like free men".

I wasn't going to respond again, TO INKOGNITO hahaha.

Hhhmmm. I critique SOME Americans for living in awkwardly large cookie-cutter homes produced by companies with names like "Beazer" - if your neighborhood was a really special one you might have a choice of 6 designs instead of 4 - and it's linked to an winsome anecdote about WWII soldiers liberating poor old Europe and being FREE! Yeah! Where's Fred Astaire to kick up a dance routine? Sorry, I'm not really buying it and I don't think anybody else was.

It's funny how people took my comments as some huge broadside attack on American character. Like I was one of those dastardly American-hating Europeans. Laughable. I was just pointing out some aesthetic foibles, people! I'm not "threatening to move to Canada" as was so brilliantly parodied recently by the blog Stuff White People Like. I wouldn't choose to live anywhere else...the best economic opportunities are still here. And I have benefited from them. So, get over it! Criticizing anything Americans do is not hating Americans or being anti-American! (Or being a Nattering Nabob of Negativism for that matter. A somewhat ironic invocation, duluth, considering where that thinking got Agnew and Nixon! "Only the negative people pay taxes" if I may channel Agnew through Leona LOL. I'm NOT surprised by the "deafening silence" since my arguments were clearly better reasoned.)

You can always poke holes in generalizations. That does not prove that there isn't a basis for them. I've noticed that you can often place a planting shown in a picture on one side of the Atlantic or the other by how interesting it is. There is definitely a boring planting tradition over here. Perhaps it has to do with the majority of the population being concentrated in punitive eastern climates, the softer conditions of Britain and Northern Europe allowing more involved schemes to develop and become comparatively prevalent.

Even old photos of showcase American estate gardens from the Golden Age depict layouts with significantly less going on - in terms of plants and planting. A large iris garden consisting of a single variety, rose gardens with a few kinds all pruned and trained the same way etc. - so that the same images are repeated monotonously throughout the whole layout, without even any variation in form. And that includes ones from the easier-than-usual climate of the Pacific Northwest.

On the other hand, modern British gardening seems to consist to a large extent of hobbyists with thousands of kinds of plants each in the midst of large areas with little more than grass and maybe some cypress trees (Lawson and more recently Leyland, to the point of restrictions being passed against rows of the latter). Whereas here most places with exposed dirt do have some trees and shrubs at least, even some herbaceous plants like annuals, bulbs or tough perennials. (Commercial properties may of course be subject to ordinances requiring landscaping). It appears much of the selection is determined by what is being offered by supermarkets, big boxes and similar outlets.

Geeeeeees . . .. . it's only garden design folks. No one will live or die tonight based on our interpretation of euro design. Take a deep breath and chill while I add in my two cents.

A good point made earlier was that the Europeans have been doing this longer. They have more experience with sustainable beauty.

My biggest observation to contribute is that Europeans seem to be much more practical about landscaping. They stick with the plants well suited for their climate. Italians grow plants suited to their hot, dry, sunny climate, the English to their climate. Americans are still trying to figure out their climate. For example, I still see people in north Florida trying to grow conifers. Give it up, and put in some philodendron selloum.

Also, Europe has been developed for quite some time. When you move into a home there, someone has already cultivated the garden and installed a patio. I have lived in many places in Florida, but have yet to inherit anyone's landscaping work. Heck, I've cleared land on two houses.

When I think of Euro style, I think stone, brick, aged, the type of lushness that takes many years and a certain benign neglect to develop.

I hope this helps. Okay, break over, go back to your corners and come out typing . . ..

Clickety clackety tap tap...