lol that might be conversation Mike. Safaribabe -- if you really wish to know, just type "COIR" in the search box in this container forum. The first two posts have Al responding to them. In fact, if you don't know who Al is (Tapla) nor his Mixes, you probably haven't been reading much in *this* forum since he responds to practically everything. The first posts you'll encounter with the COIR search show Al getting somewhat perturbed when someone makes a blanket statements like "COIR is the best ever" and asks him to justify that kind of statement. However, if you keep reading in the post he is very civil and in the end provides his opinions to someone who really wants to use it. "Al's Mix" search returns quite a bit also.

Dear angierainbow83, Please think about the info from Jodi and Al. I add my own story below. Since thinking through my own experiences will help me too, I hope you don't mind. I believe for me, I need to separate the garden beds from my containers; just as a two bedrooms can be used differently while still being a room, a separate approach to garden beds (to use Al's words, more "organic") vs. containers (more "inorganic") is still gardening. Good luck on your journey! Over the past few years I seem to be suffering from a case of harvest envy. Due to space and location, I do not have the ability to grow vegetables in the ground due to shade, but I do have a very sunny spot where containers work fine. I have "successfully" grown various vegetables (and am lazily including tomatoes in this category). I say "successfully" since I have never been able to come close to the level of harvest that neighbors get when the essentially identical plants with similar methods EXCEPT the plants are grown in the ground. In fact, I can say this with with confidence since I have provided them with their plants. I have experimented with various combinations of top soil, organic potting soil, compost and small gravel. (I won't go into nutrient supplements I have tried.) I have used about 15gal lightly-colored plastic pots raised off the ground. Given my growing climate, young plants move into these pots in early May and typically are taken down sometime after Columbus Day. The plants are still producing, but the colder temps negative influences many of the types I grow. In the case of eggplant, tomatoes, cucumbers, and peppers, for example, my plants are 5-6ft tall and produce a crop not quite sufficient for a small family throughout much of the season. When I take the pots down at the end of the season, I typically find the exterior soil to be damp/dry while the center below the stem and near the main roots to be very wet. Further, there are many small roots near the soil surface, possible due to the thin mulch layer I applied (thinking I needed more moisture retention). There are some larger roots that spread in the pots, but not a tremendous amount. The best fruiting, distribution and size of roots was in the year where I only used organic potting soil without a mulch cover. Although I can't say with 100% certainty that by making the soil more organic I caused this problem since from year to year I changed conditions (and growing conditions change too), the evidence is pretty well stacked against me.

Irishtwinsmommy's suggestion of using "compost tea" was spot-on advise. I'm a hydro grower and I stumbled upon the most perfect hydroponic nutrient ever: compost tea manufactured from composted chicken manure. pH changes in hydroponics can be devastating. As it turns out, nutrient concentrate manufactured from organic composted chicken manure is self-buffering and holds the pH at or near 6.3, which is perfect for tomatoes (and strawberries -- we grow both). After much consideration, I posted the recipe for my hydro nutrient in my online store along with several other cool goodies. The link is my recipe. Relax, everything in my online store is FREE! By the way, after posting the recipe, several folks emailed me not being able to find EZ Green brand composted chicken manure and it turns out it's marketed only on the west coast. It's my guess that any brand of composted chicken manure will do the trick. Here is a link that might be useful: Build Your Own Self-Buffering Nutrient

From left to right: Fafard 3B Fafard 3B 1 bag 3B + 1 bag pine bark fines 1 bag 3B + 1 bag pine bark fines 1 bag 3B + 2 bags of pine bark fines 1 bag 3B + 2 bags of pine bark fines 70% coconut coir + 30% perlite (I normally don't start any scotch bonnet pepper plants in the summer (it is too hot, buggy, and rainy) but this year thought I would give it a shot plus do more in the fall. They last longer than 1 season. We don't get freezes.) Here is just a sampling of some of them. Fafard 3B --great right out of the bag Actually had flowers and now fruit way ahead of others by 7 or 8 days. They have the greatest height and most dense foliage. One of the 4 plants I did with 2 to 1 ratio (PB to 3B) is just as tall and full but one is much shorter for some reason. I expect all of the extra pine bark component ones to do well. The 2 PB to 1 Fafard 3B ratio should be good over the long haul. (They also make a mix called Fafard 52 which I only was able to find once. It was 60% bark.) Fafard 3B is 45% peat and 30% pine bark (one site said 25 % pine bark). I am hoping this also will hold up well --I have used peat based mixes with no pine bark with good results so the pine bark should make it even better as the mix degrades. Coir is plugging along--not quite up to speed with the others but still doing OK. It is the final one of the group. The transplants seedlings I did in coir did awful. There are very good potting mixes on the market and pre mixed makes it super easy . Or buy your own ingredients and mix yourself--that can work equally as well too. Your choice. For many annuals like vegetables --longevity of the mix if you are dumping in raised bed after one season or not reusing is not all that crucial as long as the mix is well draining but nutrient retentive as well. L.O. Can you post pics of your vegetables in the gritty mix? How many times do you expect to reuse?