Wet Ground - Dry Creek Bed Type Construction - Advice?

17 years ago

OK, here is my dilemma. I have been dealing with this issue for a few years now (since getting my house) and I am trying to think of a way to deal with the situation. At the bottom of this post are some links to images displaying what I am talking about. Hope you can help.

So, in my back yard, I have a drainage swale leading to the back corner of my yard. This area is constanly wet, unless there is at least a 2-3 week span with no rain. It's not really standing water, it's just mushy, soggy, wet ground. I can't run a lawn mower over it at all until fully dry without tearing the ground up, so I usually just weedeat it. When it does rain, standing water drains to an in-ground drain located just across the property line in my neighbors yard (behind the small tree in the photo).

I have consulted with someone about this problem, and they first suggested trying to drain this area out faster to the street, but with the swale and with the distance to the street, proper decline on the pipe would put it below street level. So it seems that's out. I have also tried to add some dirt to the corner to build the area up, with no avail. Honestly, I don't want to do too much as I fear dumping my problem on the neighbors.

My latest idea is to try and create a dry creek bed type area in the yard. I want to rock in the corner of the yard along with the ares along the perimeter that meet in that corner as those places stay moist as well.

My hope is that even though the area will stay moist, the rocks will cover the mess. Part of this is because we are going to replace our fence soon (blew down during Katrina) and we are going to get a dog. I don't want the dog getting all into that mud and tracking it into the house. Thoughts??

Will this make my problem worse? Is it going to affect drainage of water as it's raining? If this is a good way to go, how should I go about doing this. Should I put landscape fabric on the grass and put rock on top, or should I dig the area out a bit, put down fabric and replace with a thicker layer of rock.

http://brianmull.com/yard/wetyard.jpg

http://brianmull.com/yard/rockbed.jpg

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (4)

pls8xx
17 years ago
The OP asks " ... how should I go about doing this."

Your property appears to be rather flat. Coupled with close neighbors, things can get sticky.

Start by getting someone other than yourself to document the existing grades over all of the project area. Use an engineer, surveyor, LA, or one who has many years of experience. The result should be a contour map with spot elevations also shown. The most important thing is the location where water is crossing the tract boundary.

Before starting the design, study the drainage law of your area. Law differs from state to state, but the most common applicaton is the civil law doctrine of drainage.

Here I repeat what I said on another thread. Note that part in bold.

A good overview can be found at:
http://publicworks.co.marion.or.us/engineering/DevEng/drainagelaw.asp

"The lower owner must accept water which naturally comes to his land from above, ..."

In Arizona:
https://www.coconino.az.gov/uploadedFiles/Public_Works/Homeowner_Guide_To_Drainage.pdf

"A second drainage law is "The Civil Law Rule of Natural rainage". This rule states that a landowner has the burden of receiving onto his/her land the surface water naturally falling onto and freely flowing onto it from land above it. The rule further states that a landowner has the right to have the surface water falling upon his/her land and naturally flowing onto it to flow freely from it onto lower parcels as it would flow under natural conditions. The key words are "naturally flowing". Any modifications to the surface topography or the drainage ways that cause natural flow to enter or leave a property differently (different peak flow elevations, frequencies and flow locations) can create a liability and put you at risk regarding litigation."

Or from:
http://web.aces.uiuc.edu/vista/pdf_pubs/DRAINAGE98.PDF

"A landowner has no right to obstruct the flow of surface
water. The owner of lower land obviously has no right to
build a dam, levee, or other artificial structure that will
interfere with the drainage of higher land, according to the
CIVIL LAW as it is applied in Illinois."
gulfcoast8888
17 years ago
Really nice flat land. We have similar issues with heavy rains.

From your description it appears that the neighbors and your water are draining into his french drain. You should investigate building a dry-well of your own or of building a rain garden instead of altering your topography.
Related Discussions
Constructing Raised Beds - What to line inside with?
Q
Comments (21)
It's a fact that sometimes, raised beds are undone. I can't see that a layer of gravel will be all that much of a help for drainage (though I don't fully accept that it will harm it either.) But it would surely make it a lot harder to clean this project up when and if ever the time comes. I would go sans gravel. Also, I know you already have a plan for making the container out of wood, but it's the case that many wood boxes end up looking pretty shabby down the road. I recently came across a video where someone made raised beds out of interlocking precast concrete panels that they fabricated themselves. ((Link to precast raised bed panels.)They were much nicer looking than the typical wood affair and are also flexible in that they can be linked to create larger size beds. They'd be much more durable, too. If ever undone, they could be reused somewhere else instead of being pitched in the trash. No need to worry about rot or coating the insides.
...See More
Garden too wet & maters need planting, need advice, PLEASE!!
Q
Comments (6)
Oh when it rains it pours! After having a good hot day and only a 30% chance of rain forecasted, I though we would get a dry day under our belt. No such luck. This evening we got another storm, putting down another 8/10 tenths of rain. Dave, your advice is spot on, but when it rains this much and just about every single day, I canÂt even do what you suggest. I can do what Anney suggested. I have lots of 5 quart ice cream pails that I can cut the bottom out of and fill with planting mix. At this time it seems that may be my only viable option. Do you guys think I should forego putting my black plastic down? The positive thing about not putting the plastic down is; less walking around in the garden, therefore less compaction. The negatives are; soil not as warm, having to deal with weeds and isnÂt this next one ironic. Having the plastic down would keep the soil moist should the summer turn to be very dry. I guess after typing this out it seems that it would be best to put the black plastic down. I am including a picture of one of the ice cream buckets with the bottom cut out, to get some thoughts as to whether or not if they would do the job. Thanks for the input guys, I really appreciate it. David
...See More
Problem - old, sad creek bed
Q
Comments (12)
Back to the real problem children. It is now accepted here in Australia and I am sure in some land management circles in NZ, that piping or concreting natural waterways creates significant environmental problems. This is now recognised in most developed countries. By concreting a waterway, the velocity and volume of the water is increased. I wo'nt go into the figures, but as communities expand, there is a incremental increase in the surface run-off of water. Imagine the inner city area of say Auckland. Most of the land area is now covered with buildings, roads, etc. so that nearly all the rainwater just runs off into the drainage system. The more the suburban fringe expands and the inner area gets built on, the larger the volume of water, that is prevented from soaking into the soil or just meandering through a catchment. But it all starts upstream, when the first house gets built and then the roads and so on, etc. etc. Back to the creek. When increased runoff hits a nice smooth concrete surface it gets faster and compounds to such an extent, that severe erosion and flooding now occurs down steam. This can be disastrous. In my landscaping lectures I recall seeing lots of photos of erosion and slippage etc. in New Zealand. Flooding is now tragically common in the lower suburban areas of the Sydney basin and I am told in parts of Wellington. It may well occur in other communities of New Zealand as well. As a result there are severe requirements on housing estates etc. to inhibit water runoff. Swales, detention basins(dams), wetlands to take out nutrients, etc.,are now mandatory. You will find this the same in America and Europe as well. For example, those big open concrete drains we see beside freeways that once were creeks are now being ripped up. Landscaping companies are being contracted to reinstall a sort of creekline that has curves etc to slow the water. Millions are being spent here, to recreate a sort of creekline with obstructions like rocks and even the broken concrete from the old open drain is being used. Vegetation is being reintroduced as it also slows down the water as well as helping to deal with erosion, take out nutrients, encourage habitat etc. What appear to be large parklands or football fields, are now detention basins designed to hold water run-off in severe downpours. Regarding your problem with the eels. This is an area where I know very little about. But I would suggest introducing more rocks of varying size so the holes are smaller between them. Is there a way to live with the eels and yet prevent them damaging the creekline. My bet is, if you put down a pipe you will add to a problem further down stream. A natural stream sounds like a great thing to have. Consider the cost piping the creekline and spend that budget on planting and improving the 'natural' look. Might I dare suggest you talk to a sandal 'wearer.' One of them might just be of help regarding the eels.
...See More
Dry and wet layers in soil in raised bed for vegetables
Q
Comments (11)
I'm a bit unclear from the original post, are you actually seeing that the plants are not getting water, or it just looks like it because the top thin layer of soil is dry? If the answer is you're not sure but the soil looks dry - it's probably fine - of course the top layer of soil seems dry, it is drying due to air and being exposed. Plants are getting their water from below (even if you can't see). Either way, the answer might/should be to put a bit of mulch on top anyway. That'll keep a lot moisture in that top layer, and it'll keep you from looking at the dry stuff on top and thinking too much. I've had literally dozens of times of family/friends worrying mulched areas look too dry and suggesting I water, and I either do myself or get them to stick a finger to the bottom of the mulch. It's always noticeably damp a half-inch or inch down. (Granted climate is a big factor, and these are not raised beds, but one of my ongoing arguments is there are a lot of people who water like mad when it's not needed).
...See More
b_mull
Original Author
17 years ago
Actually, the two yards are not as flat as they look. Maybe they look flatter as I am photographing from the roof. There is a nice slope maybe a two foot difference from the house level to that corner for both properties. Although, it does flatten out a bit in that corner.Water never really "overflows" the wet area. The rest of the yard stays very dry.

I hear what you're saying about getting things checked out. Don't want to get the neighbor mad. Here is another option I thought of. What if after I put up my new fence, I built a deck about a foot off the ground covering that entire wet area. This way, the water can still flow and the ground can stay mushy, but I don't have to get back there with a lawn mower or have to worry about anyone walking around in the mud and tracking it in the house?
Brent_In_NoVA
17 years ago
My previous place had similar problems. While I did not completely "solve" the problem I did make things much better by taking steps to improve the drainage of my soil. I had mature trees to deal with so digging big holes and rotor tilling were not really options. I did see very noticeable improvements when I switched to organic lawn care methods, spread compost a couple times and applied Nitron A-35 twice a year. As mentioned by gulfcoast8888, rain gardens are a solution that has been discussed on this forum.

BTW, I was also told that even though my wet area was below the street level that I could have somebody install a pump system that would pump excess water to the street. Personally, I did not like the idea of adding to the water run off issue.

- Brent

Wet Ground - Dry Creek Bed Type Construction - Advice?

Comments (4)

pls8xx

gulfcoast8888

Related Discussions

b_mull
Original Author

Brent_In_NoVA

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Wet Ground - Dry Creek Bed Type Construction - Advice?

Comments (4)

pls8xx

gulfcoast8888

Related Discussions

b_mullOriginal Author

Brent_In_NoVA

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

b_mull
Original Author