The garden centers are getting fresh shipments from the growers....who have all KINDS of secrets you aren't supposed to know about. ;-)

You could do it, too, if you had those kinds of facilities, know-how of timing, lighting, and growth regulator sprays.

Plants like pansies that I can buy in sixpacs for $2 anytime I want them, I just don't start from seed. The growers certainly have many tools not available to hobby growers, but thats OK cause I don't want to compete anyway. There are so many wonderful plants I can not buy locally, such as Angelonia, which rhizo has convinced me I have to have, I was willing to buy seeds at $.18 per seed to give them a try. Al

they use science.. rather than the seat of their pants.. lol ...

seriously .. big operation use hormones among other things.. to first stimulate root mass.. then stimulate bud forming ... manipulate light duration.. fertilizers manipulation ... media.. watering.... etc ....

they are so far ahead of your measly attempt.. that it leaves you bewildered ...

regardless.. you are probably having more fun .. and they will bloom in spring.. when they are supposed to .. rather than being forced into a shortened growth cycle for fall shipping .... and that is probably the key ... if you think about it ...

first ask yourself.. when would a naturally grown seed hit mother earth .. probably late spring.. early summer .... and if that is true... WHY ARE THESE BLOOMING NOW????? .. rarely do you find a perennial or biennial that blooms its first season, from seed ....

and the only answer.. is because they were 'FORCED' .... as compared to yours were simply planted .... the simple answer.. is that no one would buy them.. w/o the pretty flowers.. so they force them out of their true cycle ... for sale ...

ken

Sorry Ken, but Fall grown pansies are NOT "forced" as you put it. Pansies bloom quite naturally and readily in the Fall with no manipulation other than temperature, sunlight and feed.

"...no manipulation other than temperature, sunlight, and feed."

Ummm, I think that's what Ken was referring to! Manipulation!

Donna, here's some good information about how the professionals have to do it in order to produce those stocky, full-of-flowers cell packs for market. I wouldn't exactly call it a 'natural' process.

Here is a link that might be useful: Fall pansy production

thx rhiz ....

go blue is being a bit literal ...

my point was. that average homeowner.. flippin a few seeds in some pots.. is not going to have a professional greenhouse to manipulate all the variables ... for peak plant performance ...

and then as far as the hormones.. i was generalizing.. so i will give goblu two thumbs up on calling me on that .. just trying to make peeps think about what professionals can do.. that we cant ... but as i noted..

we probably have more fun doing it ...

ken

Wow. That is such a fascinating article, rhizo! Now that I have read it, I think it's purely miraculous that I have gotten so good at doing this (even without blooms) in my basement under shop lights!

Yes, Ken, I do consider it great fun! But, I also save quite alot of cash. I admit that I am totally wacko about pansies, and so I plant out twenty to twenty five flats per year, using 8 plants per square foot in my beds. In our area, one flat of pansies is selling for $13 to $14 this year. I spent about $40 for seed, plus a bag of potting soil (yes, just plain Miracle Gro)for about $12, so you do the math.

And then, of course, there is the serious lack of new varieties available around here. According to my garden center friends, most people in our area want Majestic Giants. Period. So, they are always extremely slow to introduce anything new.

I, on the other hand, was apparently born to tinker....So this year it's Fizzy Lemonberry. The Dallas Arboretum loved them last year and that's good enough recommendation for me. I planted a row of Redbor Kale behind them. Can't wait to see them bloom!

For anyone reading this and interested in giving pansy seed starting a try, I would say that Ultima Morpho is almost foolproof. So easy to germinate, fast growing, carefree, and truly lovely. It's just that I like to try new things.... The Fizzys weren't too bad. They were a little slower to come up, but they rapidly caught up with the Ultimas that I started for our church.

Thanks to all of you for your input. I am putting the article in my file for future reference. It really has some great stuff in it. For now though, I can wait a few weeks extra for blooms.... (always by Thanksgiving, at least)

I too love pansies, and always start some new (to me) variety each spring, for the same reasons as donnabaskets...I love them, I don't want what everyone else has, and they are too expensive to buy as many as I would like. If I see a variety that I don't have on sale, I grab a 4-pack. What I really love is all the variety I get a few years down the line, when they've all been cross-pollinating. I suppose if I was only allowed one type of flower in my yard, it would be pansies. They're blooming when the snow melts, and keep on blooming until the snow covers them again in fall.

Something some of you don't realize is that in the South and Southwest, pansies are planted in the fall and bloom all winter. Then we have to yank them when they're at their best to make way for summer annuals. Pansies cannot live here in the summer - too hot.

donnabaskets, I looked up Fizzy Lemonberry. OMG, it's gorgeous. I've never grown pansies from seed and my hat's off to you. Wonder if I could do it outside here - no basement, but do have some bright shade areas. I'm just north of Atlanta.

Rosie, Sugar Hill, GA

There are a couple of limiting factors to starting pansies outside from seed in our area. First and foremost, if you want them planted out and blooming in the fall, they need to be started in late August to early September. And the weather outside is still way too hot for them to germinate well then. That's why my basement is so ideal. It stays a constant 65 to 70 degrees down there so I typically get germination in less than a week. They prefer darkness for germination, though they don't have to have it. I usually sow them in flats of soil, put them inside a rubbermaid plastic box and leave them in the dark, checking them every few days. Just as soon as they begin germinating, they need light AND continuing cool temperature, which means below 80 degrees consistently. Again, there's the rub, but since you are north of Atlanta, that might not be a problem. I know those Georgia hills get far cooler far earlier than we do. Fall came early this year even here, so I moved my plants outside two or three weeks ago. They LOVED getting sunshine and grew faster than usual.

Now if you don't mind waiting until spring for blooms you can wait until outside temps are consistently in the seventies or less and sow them outside then. I would still sow them in containers, though. Pansy seed is not cheap and sowing in the ground would be mighty tricky. Grow the plants on until they are big enough for the ground and then transplant them.

Once the plants have their first or second set of true leaves, I spend the better part of a day pricking them out and putting two seedlings each into a four inch pot. Once they are ready to go into the ground, I plant each pot of two plants as one and space them six inches apart. This gives a very full, lush bed, and in the spring, they are breathtaking planted in mass. Oh, how I wish I could post pictures!!

Here are some other things I have learned in case you want to try your hand. (All borne out by the article rhizo posted.) They do not like being over watered. Once they are pricked out and established for a weeks or so, I slow their watering down to once a week. (While inside. Outside would be more like twice a week.) Oh, and when the plants are really tiny, it's much easier to water them without damage by having a spray nozzle set on mist. I drag my hose right into the basement for this purpose.

And they do not like alot of fertilizer. I have tried alot of things over the years, and the one I have tried that they like best is fish emulsion. Lord have mercy, it is so stinky! But if you can get the plants outside it's bearable. Do cover the flats the first day though because cats will dig in soil with fish emulsion smell. Also be careful. The smell of it draws yellow jackets.

Give it a try! It's fun and very satisfying!

I personally don't consider giving a plant optimum temperature, light or fertilizer as "manipulation". By planting an impatien in the shade, because that is where it performs best "manipulation"? And great 13 year old data! Production and genetics have changed substantially since that article. Yes, you will grow "better" pansies in cooler conditions, and they will be shorter and stockier and not stretched or stressed, because if they were, nobody would by them! And Ken, trust me, I have plenty of fun working for a major young plant producer, just as I have fun growing plants in my gardens. I just hate gross generalizations about how "we" manipulate plants.

Donna was simply asking how pansy growers were able to produce those full, blooming pansies that show up so early in the garden centers. If you think that it's all done without some 'encouragement' (like that word better?), you are quite mistaken. Acceptable temperature range, ideal light quality and quantity, appropriate levels of the right macro and micro nutrients at the right time, and usually an application of growth regulator to encourage stockiness (rather than stalkiness) is all part of the process.

It sounds like Donna has her own program for producing pansies at home and it sounds like it works great for her. Pansies aren't the easiest plant to grow from seeds for those of us in the South, by any means. But worth it, if possible, because the selection is so much better.

Rhizo, I refuse to butt heads with you on this. I objected to the generalization that they were FORCED into bloom. After 30 years in this industry, I am not "quite mistaken". There are plenty of crops that ARE forced into blooming at an unnatural time, pansies aren't one of them. I feel like professional growers tend to get bashed in these forums because we have the means to grow nice plants, and there is a lot of bad information and misperceptions about this end of the industry.

To answer the original question, we start them cool (the best pansy plugs come from Northern states), apply growth regulators (to keep them from stretching in the heat) and fertilize to encourage root growth. Then the plugs are shipped to Southern growers who transplant them, and typically grow them outside where they benefit from cooler nights. Then they make their way to garden centers and landscapers.

EXACTLY! Thanks for the affirmation on this interesting discussion. ;-)

first ... i was using 'forced' as a term of art .... not as an insult ...

second goblu said this:

we start them cool (the best pansy plugs come from Northern states), apply growth regulators (to keep them from stretching in the heat) and fertilize to encourage root growth. Then the plugs are shipped to Southern growers who transplant them, and typically grow them outside where they benefit from cooler nights. Then they make their way to garden centers and landscapers.

====>>> and the point i was trying to make.. was that is not really descriptive of.. most likely .. donnas windowsill ... thats all i wanted to get across ...

she asked.. per the title.. how they do it.. i gave her a VERY MINIMALIST version ... i did NOT intend to slander a whole industry ... just trying to explain the home grown version vs the pro version ...

man blu.. you must have some mean customers.. if they complain about this stuff ....lol ...

ken

Ken, I was referring to the misperceptions on these boards about the professional end of the industry. I constantly see negative comments about how "we" patent things just to make them more expensive, and "we" genetically engineer plants to somehow make them evil, and "we" intentionally put things on the market to dupe the customer. You said we "force" the pansies out of their true cycle, which is 100% incorrect.

goblugal, not all companies do those things, but some do. Unless you are among them, which it doesn't sound like you are, I don't see why you're so adamant about defending them. I don't think Ken was saying there's anything wrong with the whole pansy scene, just trying to explain it, and I thought I noted a touch of admiration in his words. I thought you explained it very well:

To answer the original question, we start them cool (the best pansy plugs come from Northern states), apply growth regulators (to keep them from stretching in the heat) and fertilize to encourage root growth. Then the plugs are shipped to Southern growers who transplant them, and typically grow them outside where they benefit from cooler nights. Then they make their way to garden centers and landscapers.

It seems just a matter of semantics trying to label this process... as manipulation or forcing or managed growth or just good business. "Manipulation" and "forced" are not derogatory terms and most of gardening is really just the application of these devices with facilities like greenhouses, row covers, raised beds, grow lights, cold frames, etc... At the most basic level, the plants are manipulated into place in a garden or landscape, so all gardeners are manipulators, even those who just trim the shrubs once a year. Anyone who puts a dormant tropical in the basement or tulip bulb in the Florida refrigerator is practicing forcing. It's just a technique when one wants to achieve the unnatural although, in the case of pansies, as several people have testified, it's perfectly natural for them to bloom in the fall if you know when/how to get the seeds going. Growing pansies for sale is a great thing to do, if you ask me, and I'm glad somebody came up with this system. Enjoy your job and thanks for the flowers!