From a SFB area friend:

Wonder Bark--for orchids
Fir bark
Fine
Clear plastic bag with pink printing on it. I think. Two size bags--I think the small one is ?12 liters?. The large one is 1 cubic foot. It also comes in Medium grade. One cubic foot is approx 9-10 dollars at OSH--Orchard Supply Hardware. Most have them in Bay Area, I don't know about southern Cal. It is about $7 at Longs Drugs in Oakland--Rockridge area, 51st and Broadway. It is occasionally available at other indy nursery centers but I've never seen it at big-box kinda places like HD.

Hope it helps.

Al

I went to Lowe's and they had a bag called "Pathway Bark" that looked pretty small. It didn't say it was redwood and many of the other bags did.

I've also been having trouble finding "Micro Nutrients" How important are they?

Andy.

All nutrients are equally important for good growth. Plants just use more of some than others. Most common soluble fertilizers (like Miracle-Gro) have NKP, Z, Fe, and Mn. There are various micronutrient supplements out there. I use Micromax and STEM, but they're not commonly available ion small quantities. You can investigate products like 'Earth Juice Microblast' and others, or seek out a fertilizer that has all the elements necessary for good growth (Foliage-Pro 9-3-6 is a very good all-round choice). Bark size is very important. Something with almost ALL pieces smaller than a dime is best. I use partially composted pine bark fines in the 5:1:1 mix and small uncomposted pieces of pine or fir in the gritty mix.

Al

It looks like micromax is used in Bonsai, so there are several Bonsai stores localy, I'll probably be able to find some there.

The bark is all very small, no bigger than macaroni. Is all fir bark acceptable? Cedar? Redwood?

Andy.

Cedar covers a lot of ground, and I've never grown in bark of any of the many trees commonly referred to as Cedar. I just have a bad feeling that all the aromatic bio-compounds in 'cedar' just won't be the best for growth. Again - there is nothing I've seen in print to say such, but then I've never heard of using 'cedar' bark in soils, either.

If you want Micromax and can't find it in small quantities, you can find it by doing a search for Adam's Bonsai and clicking on the link to Supplies. I buy both Micromax and STEM in 50 lb bags, and both are expensive at around $100 per bag. The 8 oz jar that Julian sells treats about 60 gallons of soil.

Al

How can I tell what kind of bark it is if the bag doesn't say?

It looks like the Bansai stores sell something in the $7 - $8 range. That should get me by this year.

Andy.

I'm in Santa Clara and have had no luck with pine bark fines in paticular. Wonder Bark is way over priced for the amount you get, I was victim to that last year, ouch. I found bark fines by ready gro (i think thats the name) at OSH for 4.45 per 2 sq.ft. bag. Dont know what kind of bark fines they are but they have worked fine after a quick compost and liming.

Damon

If you want quantity you need to look at landscape supply companies, there are several in the bay area. Fir bark is a major ingredient in mixes made for the propagating nurseries and is readily available by the yard or the cubic foot. Douglas fir is a native of northern California and a staple of the lumber industry. The bark is removed before the logs are cut to size and the bark by product is sold to the landscape supply companies to use in their soil mixes. Al

A couple of the local lanscaping material places say they have 1/4 inch bark. Would this do?

Andy

1/4 inch seems about right. Is it pine bark? And let us know if and where you get them, thanks.

Damon in Santa Clara

Uncomposted 1/4" pine or fir bark is fine for the gritty mix - just what you need. It's a little coarse for the 5:1:1 mix though. You can use it, but you might be watering more often than you think. I really prefer a rather fine & partially composted pine bark for the 5:1:1 mix. I think the composted redwood fines would be a better choice for the 5:1:1 than the 1/4" bark.

Al

Just use the Redwood Soil Conditioner at OSH.

Works great.

I ended up buying 1/2 a yard of the composted Redwood, at the USave Rockery in Union City. I mixed it with the 1/4in pathway bark from Lowe's I got last week.

The 1/4in bark was available a couple places. Tri City Rock in Fremont, American Soil in Berkeley and in bags at Lowe's in Union city called pathway bark.

I was only able to find fir bark smaller at Evergreen in San Leandro. It was to small, about 1/2 powder.

Andy.

Hey. I'm new to the forum, so I apologize if this has been addressed elsewhere.

I'm going to mix Al's 5:1:1, and I want to keep looking until I find the right ingredients, but deciding what qualifies as right is proving difficult.

Broadmoor landscape in south S.F. has a product in bulk that I'm very confused about. The description is "0 - 1/4 inch, a finely ground fir bark used for soil conditioning." I read this and thought, great, that sounds like bark fines, I'm in! But, they call the product "humus."

What should I believe the name or the description?

Thanks for any advice; I'm already enjoying this detailed forum.

Thanks,
Maria

To add to msuarez07's post, here is the link to Broadmoor Landscape 's list of types of bark:
http://www.broadmoorlumber.com/landscape_03bark.htm

Seems like what they call "Humus" [0- 1/4", a finely ground fir bark used for soil conditioning] might be the right choice for AL's 5-1-1 mix. "Mini mulch fir bark" [1/4" - 1/2"] may be a good option for the gritty mix.

Thoughts?

Here is a link that might be useful: Broadmoor Lumber Barks

It looks like American Soil in Berkeley has the right stuff. They have 2 sizes of 1/4 " fir bark. Ones is just ¼" and the other is ¼" and down. I saw the humus in San Leandro and it looked extremely fine to me.

Next year IÂm going with the ¼" and down fir bark at American Stone & Soil in Berkeley.

Andy.

Here is a link that might be useful: American Stone & Soil

OSH has composted redwood for $6 per 3 cuft. Not bad.

What about the bark mini-nugget ($4.2 per 2 cuft)? Are they the right/acceptable stuff for 5-1-1?

Thanks

Trungson,

If you are at OSH, you may want to look at the EarthGro All Natural Mulch 2 cu ft was $4.45. Pieces were more uniform and not so chunky as the larger bark mini-nuggets.

I ended up going with:

OSH Redwood Soil Conditioner $5.99 for 3 ft3

Looks like the right size, since even micro bark there looked way too big for the 5-1-1. It is "fortified with Nitrogen" though; not sure how big of a deal that is.

In the end, I do think what Broadmoor calls humus is just right as well, but too far away from me to be worth the price difference. $40 for a yard of Broadmoor humus, vs. $54 for a yard of OSH bags. We'll see how it does.

-Maria

Bay Area Pine Bark Fines alternatives list:
1) OSH Redwood Soil Conditioner $5.99/3 cu ft
2) OSH EarthGro All Natural Mulch $4.45/2 cu ft
3) OSH Orchid Wonder Bark (fine) $9.99/ 1 cu ft
4) Sloat Garden Center GreenAll Micro Bark (fir) $9.99/3 cu ft (also sold at Three Bees Nursery in SF, don't recall price)
5) Sloat Garden Center Redwood compost/soil conditioner $9.99/ 3 cu ft (if anyone has seen this one, please write back).

Pat_123: Thanks for compiling this list. Is this in order of preference for al's mixes, or in no particular order?

It's in price order. I haven't seen all of them in person. I have opened bags of the OSH redwood soil conditioner and the EarthGro Mulch.

Anybody know where to find ingredients for Al's gritty mix in SF Bay Area - turface / crushed granite?

A search for Turface found this company:

http://www.profileproducts.com/sports_fields/wheretobuy.htm

And for Northern California there are several places:
1) http://www.sierrapacificturf.com/ in Campbell, which I was recommended by another farm feed shop the other day when I was looking for perlite. I finally got 3.5 cuft bag at OSH on Alum Rock in San Jose for $16.

2) http://www.horizononline.com/products/landscape.phtml

Here is a link that might be useful: Turface MVP

Trungson,

Can you comment on the texture of the perlite you bought from OSH? I bought some from their So SF store and it is quite powdery compared to the Miracle Gro perlite I am used to.

Hey pat_123

The Perlite I bought at the OSH in Sunnyvale was great. Perhaps that bag got smashed around a bit too much?

Also, I'm very familiar with the Sloat mulches, and in my opinion they are not quite fine enough for the 5:1:1. Maybe for the gritty mix.

That being said, this is the first time I've made the mix, and my opinion is entirely based on hours of forum reading and no growing yet :) Well, two weeks of growing, but that hardly counts.

-Maria

Just FYI, I've called the three OSH stores near me in San Jose (Cottle, West San Carlos, and the new one on Blossom Hill) and none of them have ever heard of "Redwood Soil Conditioner" and it doesn't sound like any of them carry any kind of composted bark - just the 'nuggets' and similar mulches.

Has anyone found a source for composted redwood or fir bark fines in the Bay Area? All of the landscape supply places seem to only sell by the cubic yard. I only need like 5 cu ft.