Searched on "4 O'Clocks" and this discussion came up. Nice old discussion! In my area (Maritime NW) I have never seen 4 O'clocks in the nurseries and big box stores. I'm speculating that's because most of their flowers are sold in bloom, and 4 O'clocks bloom when larger. They probably don't bloom in little 6-packs or even in 1-gallon containers. I'm guessing about that. Also, if the flowers are not reliably open when the stores are open, people might not buy them. I bought seeds via the internet. Feeling nostalgic about gardening from my childhood, and these 4 O'clocks were part of that. I grew some about 10 years ago and as I recall they did OK here. I'm more into gardening now than I was then, so maybe they'll grow better. Plus I have a deer and rabbit problem, and maybe they'll be resistant to those animals. Maybe. I read start them 6 to 8 weeks indoors before the last frost, for cool climates like mine. They can also be planted in the ground, but maybe will start blooming later. A packet has plenty of sees, so I can try both. Nice discussion! I've lost the experiences of older gardeners in my family, and it seems there aren't a lot of gardeners in my neighborhood, so it's up to me to discover what works and what doesn't. Pass-along plants like these are worth preserving for the next generation!

Hasenfeffer (Sour Rabbit Stew) SUBMITTED BY: NXNER "Original German rabbit stew recipe passed down from my great-grandmother who immigrated to US in 1889. This is a lot of work to make but well worth it. It is an acquired taste dish; once hooked, you can't get enough. Serve with fresh mashed potatoes and celery sticks. Use the stock as gravy for mashed potatoes. Always tastes better as leftovers. Hope you enjoy!" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- PREP TIME 1 Hr COOK TIME 1 Hr 15 Min READY IN 10 Hrs 15 Min INGREDIENTS 2 3/4 cups red wine vinegar 3 cups water 1 1/2 tablespoons white sugar 8 whole cloves 1 medium onion, thinly sliced 5 stalks celery, chopped 1 lemon, thinly sliced 1 teaspoon ground cinnamon 1/2 teaspoon ground cloves 1 tablespoon salt 1 teaspoon pickling spice 1 teaspoon ground black pepper 1 cup all-purpose flour 1 (2 1/2 pound) rabbit, cleaned and cut into pieces 3 tablespoons vegetable oil DIRECTIONS In a large pot, combine the water, white sugar, whole cloves, onion, celery, lemon, cinnamon, ground cloves, salt, pickling spice and black pepper. Bring to a boil, then turn off and allow to cool. Place the rabbit pieces into the mixture to marinate. Cover and refrigerate overnight. Preheat the oven to 350 degrees F (175 degrees C). Spread flour out onto a parchment or aluminum foil lined baking sheet. Bake for about 10 minutes, stirring occasionally, until the flour is a light brown color. Remove the rabbit from the marinade and pat dry. Strain the marinade, and discard the solids. Reserve the liquid for later. Heat the oil in a deep skillet or Dutch oven over medium heat. Coat the chicken with the toasted flour. Place into the hot oil, and cook until browned on both sides. Remove from the pan, and set aside. If there is oil left in the pan, sprinkle enough of the toasted flour over it to absorb the liquid. In a jar with a lid, mix 1/2 cup of the marinade with 1/4 cup of the remaining toasted flour. Close the lid, and shake vigorously until well blended with no lumps. Heat the pan with the rabbit drippings over low heat. Gradually stir in the marinade mixture, stirring constantly until slightly thickened. Return the rabbit pieces to the pan. Cover and simmer over low heat for 1 hour, or until the meat is falling off of the bones. You may remove the bones prior to serving if desired.

I am about to compost my Pineapple Upsidedown Cake. Every spring it gets bigger and bigger and shows all kinds of promiss, the it just seems to go limp. By the end of June it looks like it should be September if I gaged the seasons on PUSDC. Besides, even using its acronym it has more letters than June. I will be a defender of Ginko Craig. I have told this story in this forum often. So I will make it short. You can take GC, cut it up into single eye divisions and pot them, plant them the next spring, and the next year have a very nice compact variegated green with white margin, medium-small hosta that flowers profusely. How can one hate a hosta like that. I moved just one of about 50 I had propogated from 5 fall sale purchases I had in Arkansas to IL and it is lovely and maintains itself very nicely. Les

Well, we'll see. I do have many roses that die after a few years. I've had lots of luck with the newer, healthy kordes roses and with putting them in raised beds filled with store bought manure and compost (no native soil in the top 10 inches or so). I do have many roses on Fortuninana and many of mine are not hybrid teas so they are closer to their OGR counter parts, but its all very trail and error. The only ones I really plant in the ground are the Kordes roses and the Earth Kind roses obtained from Chambless. Others I grow in containers. But not all roses last regardless of where I get them. Even ones on Fortuniana have failed for me in the past. Wish me luck :)