Thanks Raybo - a must read, I am sure!

Excellent Raybo, I am going to go with your mix/perlite/bark combo this year.

I noticed when digging out my plants after last season that the straight MG mix was extremely compacted and heavy.

The bark you recommend is the same stuff I use for ground cover in my yard every year...about 15 bags, so a little more wont hurt :)

Brian

Hey Brian,

Good to hear from you again. The 3:2:1 Combo Mix of Potting Mix, Bark Fines, and Perlite should be a good improvement in production and taste this Season. This will minimize soil compaction as you observed. Just came back from Summer Winds where I bought them out of 4 bags of the Perlite.

Planted out my first 'Tainer yesterday (Bloody Butcher and Goose Creek). Weather not cooperating down here in San Jose today.

It will be interesting to compare the longevity of the new Lowes Rugged Tote vs. the previous Rubbermaids, as the label claims outdoor use and crack resistance. At $9.97 vs. the Rubbermaids at $14.97, that saves a cool $10.00 per EarthTainer in construction cost.

New for me in 'Tainers this year will be 3 varieties of NuMex Peppers.

Raybo

Thanks for the revisions Raybo! Awesome design! I started my first garden last year with a dozen 31 gallon containers of your design and was thrilled with my results - (I need to figure out how to post pics!) The SWC's allowed me to garden on top of my asphalt driveway (my hot peppers LOVED the heat that was generated)as I am on an 1/8 acre lot in the city with out much traditional garden space available. I am excited to be expanding and roughly doubling my 'garden' this year with the addition of more containers :) Happy growing everyone!

negal,

Glad to hear you had good success last Season. I am confident the new 3:2:1 Combo Mix of Potting Mix, Bark Fines, and Perlite will work even better for you this year. As a suggestion, I experimented with a 3:3:2 ratio of the above with a couple of PepperTainers, and they outperformed the Peppers in the 3:2:1 Combo Mix. You may want to give this formulation a try in a few of your PepperTainers this Season.

Raybo

The best I can find here in central Indiana is a product at Lowes called "Black Medallion Hardwood Fines Mulch". I opened a little corner of a bag and compared it to potting mix. It was very similar with just a few bigger pieces about 1/4" - 1/2" in size. Other than that I've checked HD here and they don't have the Pine bark fines. Do you think that will work in a 20gal SWC? Also do you think that will work in a 20" x 16" round plant pot?

bigjoe,

I would avoid any hardwood mulch, as it contains resins and other constituents that will do more harm than good. If you can't find Bark Fines, look for products called "clay soil conditioners". While not an ideal substitute, it will be OK to use.

Raybo

bigjoe,

Here is the particle size you are ideally looking for:

{{gwi:682}}

The particles should vary between the size of a Dime, to a Quarter.

Raybo

how would you know what kind of hardwood was in it? oak resin, alder resin, maple resin etc. and yes alder is a soft hardwood.

Thanks Raybo,

Last year I used an equal mix of Fafard 52 and Fafard 3B as I couldn't find any fines to make my own mix. My local garden center checked with their rep to see what blend was closest to the 5-1-1 and the 52 was recommended. When I was researching soils here in the container forum, I couldn't decide between the 5-1-1 or a mix containing more peat for better wicking in my SWC - in the end I just mixed the two!

I didn't write down the actual amounts of ingredients, but the 52 is mostly partially decomposed pine bark fines mixed with peat, perlite, vermiculite, lime and (maybe?) trace nutrients, while the 3B has a higher amt of peat. I wish I had more detail on the blends (I'll have to keep better records this year!) but I know that there is info on Fafard's website - under the 'I'm a professional grower' link - just not the exact % of ingredients in the blends.

I would use this exact mix this year if it weren't for the cost - it was a bit pricey and I am planning on expanding! I think I found a local source for fines this year and am going to give mixing my own a try so I'll keep your advice in mind.

negal

Here is a link that might be useful: Fafards 52

Hi Ray, I misunderstood somehow about the pine bark size and began sorting with 1/4" hardware cloth everything 1/4" to 3/4" (with the occasional and much more rare 1" piece of bark). I thought I needed all the shredded bark that is less than 1/4" for the Earthtainer. I think I am confused about the necessary size. You said above that the chips need to be dime and quarter-sized, right?

So I guess I don't need the shredder screen in my shredder\chipper\mulcher vac as I have to grind up the bark to make the 'fines' here. That screen in the shredder makes a very fine product. I'd say it makes bark particles ranging from the size of a grain of sand off the beach to a majority around 1/2" and smaller. If I remove the screen I expect to see more dime and quarter size chips and not so much of the sand grain-sized pieces.

What should I do with the sand grain-sized particles of bark I sifted out? Would it be a bad idea to include that in the EarthTainer mix? I suspect it would increase absorption\water holding capacity and that would be counter-productive to the reduced moisture level we're aiming for, right?

Ben,

Surely, I don't have all the answers at this stage - - and it will likely be another 3 or 4 years before all the trials zero in on the best EarthTainer Combo Mix. Last Season, the 3:2:1 ratio of Potting Mix, Groundcover Bark, and Perlite worked quite well:

{{gwi:11735}}

Green from top to bottom!

Most of the particles were in the Dime to Quarter sixe. That is not to say other (smaller) particle sizes won't work, but all I can do is report my findings as in the above photo. Having said that, I am also experimenting with a smaller size Fir bark called Turf Topper from the Redi-Gro Company (Sacramento) this Season which looks promising. Unfortunately, this particular brand is not available across the USA, but I'll trial it anyway to see what impact bark particles the size of a pencil eraser may have on moisture in the EarthTainer.

Raybo

Ray, I may as well use the extra fine Green all the way up the plant is GREAT! I look forward to those results too. I am hoping to avoid how mine looked last year at the end of August. I got a pretty decent harvest, but more output is definitely welcome.
{{gwi:11736}}From 082909

Ben,

Yes, that is exactly the condition I experienced last year with just plain Potting Mix. When I emptied out the 'Tainers, the Potting Mix was highly compacted, hence the quest to come up with a "loose" mix that will retain good aeration and wicking properties.

I am experimenting with the (successful) 3:2:1 ratio of Potting Mix, Bark Fines, and Perlite. Also trialing a few 'Tainers with a 2:2:1 ratio, and a 3:3:2 ratio to see the distribution curve of results. In any event, I am certain the Combo Mixes will be far better than just straight Potting Mix.

Raybo

Raybo:
I made three original water-mizer ET's last year and of the 5 tomato methods I tried in my yard, they did the best. (The others included hay bale, cardboard over manure, aged-in-place compost...)

Anyway. I am an advisor for a (Boy Scouts) co-ed Venturing crew and they were brainstorming fundraiser possibilities. Since I had been telling the other adults about my EarthTainers, someone asked about the costs and labor - could the kids construct, plant-to-order and deliver a "Tomato Machine" and ask for something over cost so that some money would be generated for their 2010 summer trip?
I said due to the agreement in the ET instructions, and since I am a Boy Scout too, I would ask Ray for permission before I would assist them in a project that's essentially selling EarthTainers. As opposed to building some to give to nursing homes etc.

As the ET design is so durable, they could offer to replant the container next Spring for a lower price. And so on for a couple of years...

So I am asking. Is there a nonprofit "business model" that would have your blessing?

Scout's Honor, if you don't approve I will have them design their own, and not use your intellectual property.

Rick

Hi Rick,

I made it up to Life before I joined the Explorer Scouts. Younger brother earned his Eagle rank.

I have no issue with non-commercial use of the EarthTainer plans for any Organization to do fund-raising or voluntary use to help others such as the elderly. Keep in mind that it takes proficiency with power tools, etc. so I would not recommend all of the construction tasks be performed by under 16 age young persons.

Also, the EarthTainer is not a "Set It And Forget It", kind of growing system. It takes a dedicated person to do the initial planting, end of year maintenance, and Spring re-charge. I just want all users to have a "happy experience" and not acquire one when they may not comprehend maintaining it for optimal performance. Having said that, the satisfaction of seeing vegetables grow in this system is a meaningful "life lesson" that all Scouts could appreciate.

Raybo

Last year I gave some 5 gallon bucket SWCs as gifts. I chose them over the larger SWCs because I was able to completely set them up and let the transplant get established before transporting to the recipient. Instead of a complicated set of instructions, I told them to put it in a sunny spot and keep the reservoir filled. The recipients had no problem taking care of them.

You may not get the same yield from a tomato plant in a 5 gallon SWC vs. an 18 gallon, but the buckets are so much easier to handle and move around.

It's also really easy to add a cage to bucket. Just drill holes in the lid about the same diameter as the cage wire and push in place.

Buckets are cheap (even free) as well. There are pros and cons to both, but I think the buckets are more viable for a Boy Scout fundraiser.

Raybo

Started emptying my 'Tainers and adjusting the MG to a 3-2-1 ratio today. Only through one wheel barrow load, but man...the mix feels like whipped butter in your hands, so soft and fluffy. I am excited to get planting and see the results!!!
Thanks again for all your experimenting and trials that I can simply copy...although I know you love it!

BTW-I made it to Eagle, Life to Eagle is where all the work is :)

"BTW-I made it to Eagle, Life to Eagle is where all the work is :)"

Unfortunately, I "discovered" girls about the time the hard Merit Badges and Projects were called for - - so never made it to Eagle. Anyways, I learned a lot from BOTH experiences....

Raybo

Geeze Raybo, I am midway through my second box and I got to thinking you have, what, about 35 of these bad boys?
Good lord thats a lot of work.

I went with the 3-2-1(MG-bark-perlite) on my first box, I am doing 3-2-2 on this second one. It will be one of my two pepper 'tainers.
I figure the added Perlite would help loosen and aerate the mix even more than the 3-2-1 for the tomatoes.

I noticed when emptying out the pepper Tainer that there were lots of root structures in the top 2/3rds or so of the box, but the bottom 3rd, where the mix was very heavy and saturated, had basically none.

I actually forgot the landscape fabric in that box, but the pepper roots just couldn't, or didn't want to, make it down there

Brian

Hey Brian,

Yep, I had 31 EarthTainers to redo this Spring. Started the "project" on March 11, and as of today, I have all 17 'Tainers for the tomatoes done and planted. 6 are Pepper 'Tainers which I am working on now, and the final 8 are the CornTainers, of which I am going to leave with the 4:1 ratio of MG and Perlite from last Season.

For the 17 Tomato 'Tainers, while the 3:2:1 Combo Mix is used in most of them, I am still experimenting with a few in the 3:3:2 ratio of Sta-Green Potting Mix, Bark Fines, and Perlite. Also, Damon (sportsguy) tipped me on to a very fine Fir Bark called "Turf Topper". I am experimenting with 3:2:1 and 3:3:2 ratios (substituting for the larger Bark fines) in a few 'Tainers.

I also have a number of fertilizer A/B comparison 'Tainers set up this Season, to try to find an equivalent of the "Old" Tomato-tone.

Been a busy past month!!

Raybo

Ha.. same exact thought crossed my mind while working with the 3:2:1 mixing and filling operation in my Earthtainers after work today.. that Ray has at least 7X more of these than I do and REALLY had his work cut out for him.

I am not sure if I should be doing this, but I gently have been patting the mix down into the Earthtainers. It is very light and fluffy, so I pat it down for good internal particle contact. Is that ok to do? Or should I fluff them up, remove the extra on top and just let gravity do its work as time goes on?

I've got 4 filled with the new mix and then the smaller 18ga and various BucketTainers to go. Here's a pic from Sunday when I worked out in the rain til I couldn't see anymore in the evening. This year I am actually leveling the ground and making sure each EarthTainer is level. It was a mosquito paradise last year even with the dunks in the reservoirs because excess water drained out of the lower side and created a perpetual swamp for the nasties to thrive in. I am using the squarish milk jugs Sams Club sells their milk in... packed with gravel as pillars as they feel very stable and give enough 'play' to balance the EarthTainers on my sloped yard. Also they might act like shocks for stability in an Earthquake. ;)
I might actually rotate my EarthTainers this year too as it should be easier with less surface area touching the bottom of the container. {{gwi:11737}}From 032710

Ben,

I pat the Combo Mix down with my hand, especially over the two fertilizer strips.

Did you save the lid cut-outs? They, placed just under each 'Tainer will make them much easier to rotate 180 degrees on top of the jugs. Remember, fully loaded with Combo Mix and water in the reservoir, each 'Tainer will weigh approx 130 pounds. Also, as you have them so closely spaced together, I don't think you are going to have an easy job rotating each one on its Axis. Just a thought....

Paul Robeson, Early Girl, and Japanese Black T. are all flowering in their EarthTainers today!

Raybo

Yeah that's why I only turned them once last summer. I have a tiny yard and it is all about packing things in as tight as possible. It wasn't impossible to rotate them, but it was a pain in the you know what. I do have the lids, so that's an idea to help reduce the friction on the spin.

Ben,

Looking at your photo again, if you are planning on rotating them mid season, I would start all of them with the fill tube in back while the plants are small, then as the plants develop into heavy duty production and are starting to drink a lot of water daily, rotate them with the filler tube out, to make it easier to fill. Just thinking ahead.....

Raybo

I should have learned that lesson last year. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. I remember now it became difficult to fill the 'tainers when the plants became huge monsters and I rotated them, so putting the tubes in the back when the plants are small is a fantastic idea! I had a rubber washing machine drain hose that fit snuggly on the end of a watering can and gave me the flexibility to fill the tainers in the back, but starting off with the tubes in the back will be better when I reach the spin point. I shouldn't have to deal with the black hose again.

I would totally do the automatic watering thing with the float valves except the city water here is overly chlorinated and plants don't do well with it (plus I am cheap and have about 200 gallons of stored rain water in my rain barrels). If I could figure out a feasible way to pressurize the rain water it sure would beat the daily bucket exercises.