Thank all of you for allowing me to infiltrate your forum, despite ranting about plants that you are gardening with sans difficulty. To me, the problem is exactly the concept that gardeners like to share the wealth, and the receiver of bounty may find the behavior to be far different than the donor. That's how invasive species get started unintentionally. Why aren't we all on the same page? Some of it is commercial ventures like to make money as easily as possible. Which NE states have had to ban the production and sale of certain non-native ornamentals (like Berberis) because vendors wouldn't quit selling them, despite the pretty obvious effect this species was having on natural lands and plant communities? It is really hard to overcome this tendency, as well as the one where people can't fathom that an ornamental plant can behave badly. That's why I made the cockroach comment. I don't know too many folks that would defend these varmints (or rats) where they threaten our humble abodes. I consider most of the invasive species of plants to be "rooted roaches." Some people live too far north for roaches to be a problem, but...I bet they wouldn't have them around, even one, even if it couldn't reproduce! And they sure wouldn't share them with their friends. But gardeners are going to do what they are going to do. I just believe in providing the information - for them to do what they will with it - and not belabor and/or overmoralize. Well, maybe a little bit. A long time ago I made a comparison to growing known invasives to use of lead-based paint. As a society, we've decided that the dangers outweighed the benefits of a very good product, because the dangers couldn't be quashed and the danger was long-lasting. This might be the way to think about some of these plants that currently might eke by on current climate and growing seasons, which we know very well are not static. I mentioned above that I had planted a number of selections of Miscanthus sinensis around the Valley here. When I read up on their propensity to escape, and observed it myself around central KY, I determined that these plants would not be long for this world. I am just now reaching the end of that endeavor. I burned several large clumps in place last weekend to destroy the seedheads, and managed to singe two of my very nicest Ilex opaca ('Big Daddy' and 'Judy Evans') in the process. They had made quite the garden pairing. Today, out on the tundra, I cut back all the clumps that I could find that were the escapes and burned them. In the spring, I'll have to dislodge the root wads, or hit them with a graminicide to finish the job. I drive by the site of a former nursery that specialized in ornamental grasses and rhododendrons (what a KY mix!) daily on my way to work in Louisville. This nursery occupied about twenty acres, and that field (observable from I-64 in Shelby County) is now one vast mass of Miscanthus sinensis. You wouldn't believe it unless you saw it happen. I will get a picture of this site this winter. If someone cares to re-educate me on how to post a picture in a thread here, I'll share the scene. I took a read through the Garden Rant link. Some notable statements: "...environmentally neutral - neither a detractor nor a contributor." "He's also friends with Doug Tallamy... Well, I know Rick Darke personally too. He's lectured several times in Louisville, and I took him for a ride through Cherokee Park one winter. He's a fine fellow, and I admire his ethic and design/gardening style. He has quite the eye for arranging native and non-native plants in a way where you wouldn't notice that those plants wouldn't normally belong together. I don't agree with him on the subject of Miscanthus, though, for the reasons I've mentioned above. Also, if one of your gardening goals is to contribute to supporting native systems and local fauna, a non-contributor (which could be replaced by a native contributor) doesn't seem like the choice to make. Saying he's friends with Doug Tallamy is really throwing up a smoke screen! I just listened to a long lecture presented by Doug at the national ASLA conference in Philadelphia in early October. What a great presentation! He has the greatest photos of bugs you may ever want to see, especially the caterpillars. The thrust of his presentation: every native plant you put in the ground (especially ones fed on by native caterpillars) is a huge leverage to supporting those populations, as well as the rest of the fauna that feed on the caterpillars! Think about it... All the birds that eat caterpillars, and feed their young, etc., need those beasts around to support their life cycle. If the plants the caterpillars eat are not there, then they don't exist to support the birds, the birds don't raise as many young, and you see the spiral that begins. I highly recommend everyone take a look-see at getting Doug Tallamy's book Bringing Nature Home: How Native plants Sustain Wildlife in Our Gardens (Tallamy, D.W. 2007. Timber Press. Portland, Oregon). You can see more about the text at http://bringingnaturehome.net and you can delve into all things Doug at http://copland.udel.edu/~dtallamy/ if you haven't had enough. Apocalyptic? I don't mean to be, and I don't demean gardeners who plant what they like. I just think that there is a lot of opportunity for illumination, and every little bit helps to see the light and the big picture. Runk, trun is a wise man, in more ways than one... On another site, I've often offered up proposals for plant naming; trun has inspired another. Miscanthus sinensis Intensely Incestuous

I have to say that I do have more income then most of the tenets here. Although, sometimes it can be daunting. My rent is actually what it is for most places around here. Not in my project, though. In other places towns and city's around. I do realize the medicals play a large part in how it is figured. My first year here I had had a biopsy done. So that right there is the zinger for the lowered rent that year. None the less I am on a fixed income and I am very fortunate that I am able to live with in it. I do have to say that I do like it here. Ocassionally I go to the meal site. They really do serve great meals. I am not yet 60 and had gone as a guest of my mothers a couple of times. They came up to me and said, that I am friendly and the others liked me and that I am welcome to come as often as I like even though I won't be sixty till next month. My neighbors are pretty good people, I like to visit with them. There are a couple here on flat out Welfare, a couple near my age and several over 80. All the units are full. Since the prior tenet (in my apartment) has been placed in a nursing home, the noise complaints have stopped. He had a lot of machines, knocking and banging away 24/7.. they were his life support stuff. And him and his wife were stinkers in that they enjoyed making the neighbor sharing bedroom wall uneasy.. that has all stopped. I actually dreaded to share a wall with her because of her complaints but she says she can't hear me at all. I am pretty quiet except when my feline has the mid night crazy's... The lawyer that owns the place I just found out is 70 years old, the place is up for sale, in fact someone was here last week looking it over. Many are hopeful they will buy it and I (sad to say) feel that sometimes it's better the devil you know then one you don't.. And no, most of my neighbors are too fearful of them to sign anything that might get them in trouble with managment. No one here EVER calls unless it's a dire need. Even up to changing a light bulb, which I feel they should take care of themselves or a family member. I take care of my own stuff as much as I can. I even bought a screen door with hardware, etc. because I didn't want to ask them for one. When they take them off 'to fix' now they don't bring it back. so many of the units don't have them any more. The screens have not been replaced as they are ruined and I got two of my own. I have three windows in my place and one of them is bolted shut as it kept falling out. sighs... Still, it's nice to have the major things looked after. My rent includes my heat, garbage pick up, water, plowing, shoveling (he's another whole story). I pay power and phone and cable as each of us do. My children are comfortable having me here as one is in Michigan and the other in Mississippi. and I like living in town. So I guess I can take it when they piss me off. I'm still mad about him coming in like that. I think next time he will ring the door bell. If he doesn't, then I will make reports. he was as shocked as I was. I do understand that his time is limited. Only he and the private contractors to take care of all they are reponsible for. I expect they have a lot of differing personalities to deal with on a daily basis. I know they are extremely varied here in this little twelve unit place. I think I'm trying to see it from their perspective, although they were totally wrong in this instance as I did as they said immediately as they said it. I do feel bad for the handy man (her husband) he is from some scandinavian country and has very strong accent but does speak English. He didn't know she had five kids until AFTER he married her.. omg.. I'm just rambling here. and I do like him, he is a likeable cuss...

Trancegemini, Sorry but I have read the posts correctly, apart from being too hasty in my typing and therefore mistaking Paradisi's comments as Misty's. I was late for work. I stand by all else that I have written. I agree that the form of development that you have described is unsuitable. It is just a cheaper version of urban sprawl. It is driven by the preference that buyers have for just the suburban block rather than a more organised and balanced mix of higher density living, community shops, larger parklands, etc. and fast transport. Government knows that urban sprawl is getting out of hand and by making blocks smaller, it is supposed to slow it down. Of course it is not slowing. But it is having an enormous strain on infrastructure. I feel many outer suburbs will end up as the slums of the future just as they have in the USA. Economies of scale naturally means that services like trains and buses are going to be much more difficult to run in a sprawl than in higher density communities. Before the car, people occupied a footprint a tenth to a fifteenth of what we do now. As a result of the car we take up ten to fifteen times more space. So it follows that it costs that much more for services and inconveniences. When the price of petrol gets even higher as it is bound to, the outer suburbs will be really hit. Where transport hubs are and commerce and shopping exists, Goverments should zone for higher density housing. There are many examples of excellent high density living with adjacent parks and gardens in Europe and the USA. But right now there are not enough votes in it. There will be inevitably though. There are many examples of outer suburbs that have become slums because of the lack of services and amenties being provided. One classic example is Los Angeles where I have spent some time. With reliance on the motorcar and very little consideration for public transport and decent educational facilities, parks, health facilities etc., there are now suburban "no go crime zones" where everyone has a backyard but nothing else. People feel so isolated with support facilities so negligible and morale is so low that crime is rampant. Freeways spaghetti everywhere and yet are still clogged. Billions are now being spent on railways but far too late. Of course everyone in these garden forums are entitled to their garden blocks but that does not mean that there must be some sensible thought into how our cities as a whole will be sustained. It also follows that inner-city high density living can also be quite enjoyable. Most folk need to live close to their work and to the things that gives them pleasure. Urban sprawl has resulted in clogged roads and unreliable public transport services. In order to save on the time it takes to travel they choose to live in higher density communities. Mostly it is surprisingly pleasant believe it or not. I know many more folk in my street than I did when I lived in the "Burbs". We...

the hallways on each side definitely don't work for me. far too much wasted space and inefficiency. One long hallway alone can often be incorporated into other spaces I still don't like the Windows. They don't work with the interior layout at all, see the bedroom upstairs for example. The narrow window is above the edge of the bed and edge of the side table, and that's the workable furniture layout were I you, I would consider restarting. it's work and you've invested in this, but I don't think it's shaping up as well as it should. At present it seems the house is being designed as if it were a rigid shell that rooms need to be contorted into. another option for space on the ground floor. keeping pantry, mech and laundry together is not something I'd do but if you are, reduce the pantry size slightly (in length) to move the mech section to the exterior wall of the pantry, rotate the laundry, facing into the pantry. it doesn't give much ironing space, though. then move the master into the space 'gained' if you're looking at ways of reworking this area, don't put the powder room on the far side from the entrance, you'd need to walk all the way through the kitchen or around, in the dining area to get there