Such a painful video! I want to know the reason that a mother, so distraught, was allowed to be alone with her children? She was so obviously disturbed.

I too wonder. Maybe people were naive and when she seemed okay, they did not appreciate how within minutes, the psychosis would again grab hold (i.e. be apparent, because she was always ill, psychotic and suffering.

Terribly sad. I hope more people become aware. (And did you hear what that psychiatrist said about SSRI drugs being able to trigger psychosis in people who were bi-polar (perhaps never before having an episode or without any diagnosis)?

She should have been hospitalized and closely monitored/watched.

Judge not. That's the world's montra. Judging 'distraught', mentally unstable, distressed is toughest for those closest often. We excuse sooo much. I had a student who struggled with our learing enviornment. She refused her meds for depression and anxiety becasue she did her own research and found the stats on suicide of those on that drug... Sometimes locking people up is safest for all but we don't we allow them to self actualize. Ya can't have it both ways, more and more we are living that truth. Hopefully she'll stay locked up-weather she chooses to get help or not. Hopefull killing three children will make the world see she needs to be kept away from the rest of us.

thanks for posting this. i can't say that "there, but for the grace of God..." because i never came close. but 52 years later, i still vividly remember the couple of times i had to summon my husband to come home from work because i felt like i was trying to climb out of a rabbit hole and having little success. the entire first 9 months of my son's life it was filled with colic, uncontrollable crying, night terrors. i was a stay-at-home mom, he was my first (and last!) child. i was so sure i was doing something wrong, i could hardly live with myself. to this day, i wonder how we both survived.

when i see these stories, i feel nothing but compassion for the moms who have been unable to cope and end up in the most dire of circumstances. we really need to do better with our understanding of the emotional decline that leads to the unthinkable.

@Ninapearl . I so agree with your post. I think it's easy to forget the trials of raising infants, then toddlers. It's constant work, rarely letting up. I was a single parent to twins, with little help. When I admitted to feeling at times overwhelmed (I counted twenty-two times that I woke up to discover they had painted their cribs with their poop. Thus the day began with baths X two, followed up with crib cleaning X two.) Anyway, they arranged for an aide to come help 3 X a week. She was marginally helpful, an ended up just being another thing I had to deal with, so I stopped that. They all meant well.

I came late to following the trial, but recall that I guess she went to the store? and played with the kids outside for a bit? So maybe her husband thought things were settling down and being OK? Unthinkable is a good word for it Nina. It's hard to grasp such a nightmare.

@hobbitmom i can't even imagine taking care of twins with no meaningful help! you can probably look back on those times now and laugh a little at poop-painted cribs, and the rest of the trials and tribulations you went through but at the time, i'm sure it was nothing short of overwhelming.

when my son was born, we literally lived in a tiny cabin in the woods with no close neighbors, family living well over an hour away, "isolated" is an understatement. i felt so alone and when problems arose, it was a matter of pulling up my bootstraps and dealing with whatever the catastrophe of the day entailed. it wasn't unusual for my husband to come home from work and find me at one end of the couch crying, my son at the other end crying.

i guess i did something right because he grew into a wonderful man with a successful career and a precious family of his own but at the time, i was just sure i was going to be the epitome of the worst mother in the history of the world.

i just cannot imagine anybody looking at women like andrea yates and lindsay clancy and knowing their struggles with mental health and only having thoughts that they should be buried UNDER the jail. my heart goes out to these moms.

YW, petalique. Definitely interesting and informative. I still wonder about Lindsay’s state of mind now since postpartum psychosis is temporary. The first woman who spoke does remember the incident while bathing the baby. Thankfully, it ended differently and that baby is now 9.🙏🏻

I so applaud those wise loving husbands. I’m thankful for all of the courageous participants. Oprah did a great job.

I suffer from anxiety and depression, and suffered even more when I had PMS. I took care of my son alone during the day while my DH was at work. My granddaughter suffered from severe anxiety when she was younger, to the point that she attempted suicide several times. She's now married to an amazing man and has two beautiful children, that we all adore. Would she ever harm those children? Not a chance.

It's my understanding that this woman sent her husband on an errand to give herself time to murder her children. If that isn't premeditated, I don't know what is. She admits she murdered her children. She calmly took a phone call from her husband in the middle of murdering her children, had a chance to stop, or ask for help, and she didn't. I believe in mercy, grace and kindness as much as anyone, but I don't believe she deserves any of those. She certainly didn't give her children any. I believe she deserves punishment, and she will get it, either here, or in the hereafter. Nobody escapes it. God help her poor soul.

Many women in this country seem to put women on a pedestal, and their rights above everyone else's ; men, unborn babies, and now, children. This must stop, for all our sake's. I believe in equality for all, and that every human life is precious.

Yes, she had all kinds of chances not to carry through with it. She could have…she should have…why didn’t she…and so on. A very difficult part of this is people trying to grasp it with rational minds. It seems the way postpartum psychosis affects women can differ greatly, such as the woman in Oprah’s video who thankfully didn’t drown her baby. I think it’s safe to assume Lindsay Clancy will be punished whether in a prison or psychiatric facility. The latter seems most likely.

Woodrose, you’ve certainly been through a lot. I’m glad things evened out and that your granddaughter is stable and fulfilled.

I hear what you’re saying, in part. It appears that the postpartum psychosis is not purely linear. I think she was still insane when she was apparently arranging for her husband to be on errands. How can we plumb the minds of the insane?

This is such a painful and wrenching event. Didn’t one of the doctors say (or did I read ir elsewhere) that Postpartum Psychosis is not that common but for some reason is associated with bipolar disorder?

I do not think that Ms. Clancy should be locked up forever, etc.. That would be cruel and unwarranted.

woodrose, that is such a great post. After scrolling through so many comments on this subject who are defending Lindsay Clancy and treating those three little children as an afterthought, reading this was, IMO, so refreshing. Thank you!!! Mental illnesses like anxiety and postpartum depression are real, but plenty of women have lived through all of it and still protected their kids. Clancy’s suffering does not cancel out the fact that Cora, Dawson, and Callan were strangled while their father was sent out of the house. She literally sent him on an errand, gathered her thoughts enough to take his call in the middle of it...and did not stop! That is not a moment of weakness. That is a CHOICE. Not to mention-to all the feminists on here who are supporting this behavior-no matter what she had going on mentally-does not help women. It teaches the world that when a woman kills, we should look away from the bodies and argue about her feelings instead. That helps no one. Least of all-the women who actually did fight through their postpartum etc. and still chose their children.

edited

“How can we plumb the minds of the insane?”

We can’t and that’s such a key and challenging factor here. I also don’t think you can compare one woman’s postpartum psychosis with another’s.

Oprah did it again. That was a very informative seminar. If Lindsay's history prior to this was sketchy, that would be one thing. But she was a loving mother and a sweet person. They said she often cried when she helped deliver a new baby. I didn't even know about postpartum all those years ago when I had my son. Although it was a normal birth and he weighed almost nine pounds, I was in the hospital for a week. On the fifth day, the two OBs did their daily visit, and I was sitting there sobbing with tears flowing down my cheeks. I don't remember what they said, but maybe they even weren't aware back then. On the phone, my husband thought something was wrong with the baby. The baby was very colicky, and we had so little sleep that we were like zombies. Since I was in my early 20s and had never even diapered a baby before, it was overwhelming. Sleep deprivation can accelerate depression. I was in a strange city with no friends or family. Thankfully, those weeks passed, and he turned into a cute baby. I definitely had post partnum without a name, but never thought of harming him. With my daughter four years later, none of this happened.

My heart breaks for those adorable children, but if I were on the jury, I would send her to an indeterminate amount of time in a mental facility. Her life is already ruined since she is no longer in psychosis.

Yes, it’s very different from postpartum depression. It’s also, thankfully, treatable and not permanent. It’s why I keep wondering how women who commit a tragic act, like Lindsay, deal with it all once they recover.

A mentally fragile person with not much support, sleep deprivation, other children to care for, and postpartum could rapidly develop psychosis. Sadly, Lindsey had more help and was more educated than many are, and yet it still happened. Her parents, in-laws, and husband probably didn't like to hear what these professionals said in Oprah's seminar. Sleep deprivation alone can cause psychological issues if it occurs long enough.

Raise your hand if you believe Lindsay Clancy is innocent and should walk free with no consequences for her actions.

The question presents a false dichotomy.

i'd like to see this thread remain non-confrontational. there are posts that are informative and personal experiences many of us can relate to. i don't see the point in the inevitable arguments that these sorts of questions will elicit.

Logical ”argument” or query is good. Mature discussion (among rational thoughtful adults) is a good, mind expanding endeavor.

On the other hand, name calling, labelling and hateful black or white absolutist pronouncements and assumptions are petty and small.

No one here is ”defending” or sanctioning Lindsay Clancy’s actions. No one here has declared themselves a feminist or liberal.

Some need to do a better job of considered thinking instead of only pot shot emotional reacting.

Yes, yes, & yes I agree with @floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK, @Ninapearl and @petalique. This horrible event does not have an answer or verdict or just decision that includes only a yes or no, a this or that. The one point that this discussion has demonstrated to me is that it’s not surprising the jury couldn’t either agree or come to consensus.

“…it’s not surprising the jury couldn’t either agree or come to consensus.”

Totally agree. It would have been an extreme challenge for any jury.

PKPonder much more to the point said, what I was trying to say before. I'm mad at those around her. Especially since she did so much trying to get help.

rob, I agree it’s hard to understand, especially when the husband of the woman in Oprah’s video DID do something. As I posted in the other (deleted) thread, it would have been such a gift to the children and Lindsay.

I hope our society can come to understand what postpartum psychosis is and how powerful it is.

I will repeat what floral_uk wrote:

“Post partum depression is not the same as post partum psychosis. The two are very different. The latter is a severe emergency mental health crisis, not a few bouts of tears and feeling down. It's been recognised since the 18c. It was included in my mother's nurse training which began in 1939. A friend of my daughter's had PPP. She was in a secure facility for some weeks, incapable of rational thought and not allowed to be with her baby unsupervised. She is now perfectly well after treatment.”

I agree… postpartum depression can turn into psychosis if there is an extreme amount of stress, no sleep, pre-existing depression/anxiety, and a feeling of hopelessness. Everyone failed Lindsay.

“I hope our society can come to understand what postpartum psychosis is and how powerful it is.”

A big challenge when it comes to choosing jurors.

floral’s daughter’s friend did receive the gift I mentioned.

Only… she was not diagnosed with postpartum psychosis.

It is my understanding that those treating her BEFORE this horrible ordeal testified they did not see signs of psychosis and that Clancy denied homicidal thoughts or hallucinations in their appointments with her. She told her family-even though she had thoughts, which was awful of course-that she never had a plan for killing them and that they did not need to be kept away from her. Of course, after…the mom and husband are making statements to support Lindsay Clancy and themselves. Otherwise, if they really thought she would have killed her kids, the family members SHOULD have known she needed to be hospitalized and the kids taken from her and put into THEIR care…but they also want to cover for themselves and didn’t feel that taking the kids away from her was needed. That doesn’t make sense either-IF the ex-husband (the kid's Dad, for goodness sake!) and her mom are telling the truth. Which I doubt that also. Lindsay obviously lied to those treating her with medication…which is on her, in the end. I had no idea there were THAT many women having these thoughts-even though fighting through it and not acting on it.

Being a mom IS tough-and it sounds like women shouldn’t be put in any certain positions of power due to not being able to handle their possible mental capabilities. <sarcasm>