Elemire, you almost got me to post something vaguely political. Instead I'll be historical. I think rose growers would be wise to go global. It's bad business to locate operations in high-cost countries when trade agreements allow you to move your capital elsewhere, where labor, taxes, and materials are cheap and there are few labor or environmental laws. We may see another rise in consumption in the West, but perhaps we have tapped out all of our credit, the main engine behind the growth of Western capitalist economies since WWII. It may be necessary to start living within our means, which personally, I dread. Life has been good for the last 65 years. There is still a market for rare roses in the West. I imagine tiny Internet based businesses run from home, in which someone offers two or three rare cultivars as a side business after working their other two part-time, temporary jobs. Indeed, that is what has happened with irises and daylilies. Take a look at EBay. I'm off to my second from-home temporary, part-time job! Renee

Well ours is without question made of 304 stainless. But honestly I don't really see a problem using 430 SS either, depends on the way it was built as in some cases the 430 is better because it holds a weld better and can bend to certain specifications better without cracking. A range made of 430SS inside your house is not going to rust anyway, that is pure nonsense. I DO however think that 430 SS could have more adverse reactions to acidic type foods such as say Tomato Sauce or Lemon juice Vs 304. maybe if you sat it in a corner of an abandoned house for 30 years maybe, but if you use it everyday in a house with AC it is not going to rust, but it very well could have more staining with acidic foods. I think that 304 stainless is critical on a BBQ grill, but not so much on an indoor stove. But I am still glad mine is made of 304 Stainless anyway. But there are many things made of 400 series stainless that work just fine, never rust, one I can think of is most "Food Slicers, Deli meat slicers etc" are made of 400 series stainless. Car exhaust pipes are usually made of 409 stainless because of the better welding and heat resistance. I once had the pleasure of meeting an old guy out in California, he lived in the middle of no where on many acres of land and when I met him I drove through the classic old gate with elk antlers on top and his house was built in around the 1830's, was an old adobe that was built by a Mexican General when California was actually Mexico. House still stands today with the same tile roof, just one addition was added on about 100 years ago but other than that was all original, No AC. He had as his stove a old wood stove that was thickly enameled color of like a seafoam blue/green and all the corners and edges were all Stainless Steel. Had to be a 400 series stainless because I don't think the 300 series was even in use yet. That stove looked like it brand spanking new and at the time I saw it was about 90+ years old. Not a speck of rust on it, of course it was thick as hell but still the surface was still like new. I actually find products "Made in USA" about 75% of the time to be pure crap in every way. I bet 95% of the world views items "made in USA" exactly the way people like Deeageaux does about China. In general about every product I see with "Made in Germany" tag on it is probably about the only one I can generally count on being very well made, I can usually count on a high price for that item also. Most of the working parts in the NXR come from every place except China, it is basically just "Assembled" in China and who better to assemble than those that have been assembling things for decades. Also it is probably the larger brand name companies that are forcing retailers not to carry a quality product that cost far less, that happens all the time in every category of product.

The Bosch in Europe will most be Axxis clones. Most European's don't have the monster size washers we have here. I just purchased a Bosch WAS24460UC (Same as Logixx 8 in UK)washer on ebay for $699. Wisconsin has a $100 energy star rebate right now on this washer too. So I got it for $599. It is a great washer. The tag on the front GLASS door says "Made in Germany". I also bought a Siemens WT46E300US condensor dryer to go with the washer. I got that on E-Bay for $359 with free shipping. Siemens and Bosch made the exact same appliances for the US with different badging on front. Simens brand laundry is not being sold in the US anymore and current inventory is going at firesale prices. The dryer is also made in Germany. The Axxis+ line is the GOOD/Reliable Bosch line that they have built their name on. The Vision series is an attempt to get rid of the sour taste many people had with the Nexxt line. The Nexxt line was utter rubbish in my opinion. The Axxis line in the US is very similar to the models sold in Europe with differences being they dumbed down the interface for the US. We get spin speeds of slow, regular, max, etc. Europe gets 600, 800, 1000, 1200RPM , etc. US gets temps of cold, warm, hot, sanitary, etc. Europe gets 40C, 50C, 60C, 90C. Why we are treated like idiots I don't know. The machines work great though. I will try to post some video later.

"maybe the more expensive brands are better?" Nah. CR's survey data has tens of thousands of respondents, so reasonably accurate as far as it goes. Which may not be all that far, though, for the reasons Dadoes just pointed out. CR just does not give any breakout on what categories of problems are occurring. For example, it is something of an article of faith here that water dispensers and ice makers, particularly through-the-door units, can be problemmatic. CR's survey results do not distinguish those problems from others such as control boards or compressor failures. You can shut off water lines and ice makers and still have a functioning fridge. Can't do that with a failed compressor or control board. That said, the fact that there may be a lot of operator errors or installation problems does not mean there are not serious problems, though. The prevalance of those kinds of problems could reflect bad design. But the data from CR just does not tell us what we might want to look for or avoid. Reminds me of the old joke about Microsoft's help desk: what they tell you is absolutely true but absolutely unhelpful. :>) Some brands also have been prone to freeze-ups in high humidty conditions. Many fridges have a circuit to address that. Others, like some of the recent Samsung models, do not have that and, instead, need periodic 24 hour defrost to keep the evaporater channels open. (I have several friends who have discovered this with their three to five year old Samsungs). The Samsung problem is, to my thinking, a bigger problem than somebody who does not know they need to turn on the "humidity control" function. Since CR's surveys do not usually report for the likes of Miele (an example of one of your "more expensive brands") you might think those brands are more reliable. No such luck on data. The reason data for more expensive brands does not get reported by CR is simple. The market share is too small. CR gets too few survey responses from its members to have what they regard as a statistically significant example. About all you can do with this data is look for the outliers. You also might have a look at the Yale Appliance web site where that company, which has a large service department, periodically reports on its call rates for premium priced and major brands. Do you know anybody in the appliance service business? Asking them can be helpful.