Reminds me of the time a woman and her grandmother were talking. The grandmother asked what in her kitchen would she choose to have if she could only have one. The woman thought for awhile and said probably the refrigerator. The grandmother said, I'd take running water every time.

Yes we often take for granted the basics of modern living and forget that those without will have these simple basic functions be the predominant function of their lives...like those who must walk a mile or more just to get to the community well and then carry the water back home.

I get my water from a community well - 9 families. When the power goes out, so does our water. Since it's a forested area, wind, snow and ice take down trees which knock out the power, not infrequently. Right now we are having pump repairs being made, so the water has been off for a .few hours several times lately. I learned long ago to save water for flushing in gallon containers, so I always have a stash. I don't drink it, because it can sit for years, but I do freeze containers of potable water for drinking or cooking. I have a woodstove, so I can stay warm when the power is out and also can cook. I am grateful for all of the above, plus a woodshed full of dry wood! I am also grateful for the neighborhood men who manage the well operations. I am the treasurer for the group, so manage the finances of the group, but really cannot do any of the chores required to keep it running and tested for safety. I am really grateful for such delicious and abundant water!

Today we had a bit of rain, long overdue. I am grateful for not having to run the sprinklers for a few days to keep my plants alive! Water for the people and the plants is so essential and we often don't appreciate it until it's not available.

Today, I bought several flats of local berries, strawberries, raspberries, loganberries and tayberries to put it the freezer. I am really grateful for the organic farmers who make such delicious food available. I'll make pies all winter and some jam and a crisp for a friend who helped me recently. It's such a good feeling to have the freezer full!

I am always grateful when the generator actually turns on so we can have things like electricity and water.

I think I also would go with running water though lights at the flip of a switch is a good second. Kids were the water carries on the farm. There was an electric well but the water had too much iron.

patriciae

Our first home was all electric, on a well, in a rural area. I remember our first power outage, 36 hours, during a winter ice storm. I flushed the toilet and then instantly recognized that we wouldn’t be doing that again. Fortunately, we had a wood insert.

I have been a few days without gas, or without electricity, or without water, and of the three, no water was the worst. We went to my parents who have a well (and a generator for the pump when needed), to bathe and get water.

I have always had municipal water. I've been through periods of no heat in the dead of winter (in New York - FUN!), no electricity for days on end, snow drifts taller than the hood of my car - but I have to say, being unable to flush the toilet (potentially for days?!) seems worse than all of that combined.

Having never lived with a well, it never occurred to me that water could be interrupted in such a way. Now I know to be thankful gravity works in a power outage...

We once lived in house with an interesting predicament when the power went out. Which fortunately wasn't often.

The house site was on a large lot just above the base of a valley. In the immediate vicinity of where the house was sited, a ground survey determined the water table was too high and the leach field needed to be on higher ground. Higher ground was available up by the road. Up, as in, uphill from the house. So the sewage system was built with a buried, vertically oriented tank (like a sump tank in a basement) where the house's outflow went. There was a pump with a float switch in it, that would be triggered when the level rose to a certain point. It pumped the sewage uphill to the septic tank. When the power went out, there was an overflow pipe that dumped the house's wastewater on the ground, just under a living room window.

My next door neighbor had the same house (same builder) but his house was on top of an adjoining hill. The pressure in the muni water system was low and insufficient to raise water up to his house. The builder needed to install a pressurizing system for his house, to increase the pressure of the water to raise it the few hundred feet up to the house.

So when the power went out, as it once did for a few days after a big winter rain storm, my house had water but no sewage system. His house's sewage system worked fine but he had no water. We spent an afternoon on the roadway drinking beer and trying to figure out how we could combine resources to provide the other with the service that was off. No solution was found but we had a pleasant afternoon.

(I know the details of what was done for the septic system because I bought the house from the builder when it was just 12 months old)

I'd never buy or live in a home with untreated well water. Life is too short.

Especially today I am grateful that I am a Canadian citizen.

(And for those on well water, seriously consider getting a whole home generator, even a small one, for the well pump, septic pump (if you have one), and your fridge/freezer).

We have a relatively small generator which will do most things for my home except the upstairs electric heat and things like the electric cooktop or the oven but not to worry. I have something called a Gentran's panel. It is connected to the grid and can divert with a big switch to the generator. I can run anything in the house that the generator of my choice will support. I could have a huge generator which would gulp fuel or go with something smaller. Because I anticipated this issue I have hydronic heat in the lower part of the house which runs off of a tiny 120 pump and propane for the fuel. We have heat when the power is out. We have lights and internet. We have phones. The fridge and freezer work fine and so forth. It just takes planning and an in-depth discussion with your electrician. He had a whole house generator but admitted it was expensive. Still DH has to go out and start ours and switch it over. We have friends who put in a whole house recently. Fantastically expensive but she doesnt have to do anything when the power goes out.

Depending on where you are, wells are not an issue. We can get ours tested-havent in a long time because we never had a problem. We did not anticipate problems because of where we live.

Elmer, you couldn't agree to use their bathrooms and just run some hose to their house so they had water? Seems a win win to me.

patriciae

We had 2 young children at the time. The neighbor's house was on a hill too steep to walk up conveniently. Diaper changing handwashing and bathing created enough outflow that adding a bit more from toilet flushing wasn't significant. The pool of muck was absorbed quickly as it accumulated, I buried the solids later when it had dried.

His water pressure equipment was at the edge of my lot, at the same "altitude" as my house. If the system pressure was inadequate for normal supply going up a pipe to his house, how would a hose have been any different? Also, it would have taken many hundreds of feet of hose. 500 or more, likely more. Not worth it.

" I have something called a Gentran's panel. It is connected to the grid and can divert with a big switch to the generator. "

I looked up Gentran panel and can't find what it is or does.....Is it like a pony panel, that is a kind of sub panel that can be separated from the rest of the breakers with a manual switch when it is hooked up to a portable generator?

My mother is from rural Indiana. I remember as a child and young teen being in my grandparent's home with no running water and an outhouse. In the kitchen, there was a handpump that served for cooking but not to drink. There was a special white galvanized bucket with a metal ladel that had potable water from the well - my grandfather made sure it was always full. He rolled his own cigarettes...and wore blue jean overalls

I think most building codes require a complete isolation switch, separating house from grid, before a generator connection and power is allowed to connect to a structure's wiring. That's to avoid risk to powerworkers from shock from a generator's electricity flowing up stream into the grid.

I'll bet GENTRAN is a contraction of generator transfer or some such.

Yes it is generator transfer. I thought that was clear. There are different sorts of separation transfer panels that you could do. You have panels where you select the circuits that you want to support with a generator. My electrician thought a gentrans was the better option but We have to be aware of turning off the upstairs electric furnace and to not use appliances that draw a lot of current. It was a learning curve for my DH who had problems with high current things like coffee makers. It is the starting surge. We could have a larger generator and avoid those issues but they use more fuel. I am more interested in running the generator for longer periods of time. We can be without power for days when we have major floods or after a wind storm. It is our reality. It is not hard. People who live in town dont have to deal with this sort of thing but we cant all live in town, particularly we cant all live where Elmer lives. I have said this before, If we all live where Elmer lives there wouldn't be enough room.

patriciae

" We can be without power for days when we have major floods or after a wind storm. It is our reality. "

I get it.....I've been in this house 3 years, and have already had 2 power outages of longer than 36 hours. My standby generator was one of the smartest upgrades I made after buying this house.

" People who live in town dont have to deal with this sort of thing but we cant all live in town "

According to the people who track such things, more than 80% of Americans live in urban settings. The figure was nearly 2/3rds back in 1950. That means that the VAST MAJORITY of Americans DO NOT face the circumstances you seem to think are so common or even virtuous, and the majority haven't for more than 3/4s of a century.

" I have said this before, If we all live where Elmer lives ... "

You have said it before, and it makes no more sense to me now than it did the past times you said the same thing.

I'm not sure why I'm the puppy in the window you seem to want to single out. Most people live in circumstances common to my circumstances. Fewer than 1 in 5 have anything in common with yours.

Urbanization in the US

Close to me, almost the whole county had zero power during this horrendous heat wave of this past week, where every day was near 100. There was a fire at a substation and another event made it worse. I don't know if the power has been restored yet . We have had power outages and they freak me out. We have a small generator that will only be used for the koi if an outage occurs. They will die from lack of oxygen as happened once years ago. It was spring and not really hot and Husband said they'd be okay and the power was going to be restored. I woke up to some dead ones and thankfully, my son-in-law went out and rented a generator for me to save the living ones. We have 12- 15 pounders in the pond.

Hey Elmer, this comment "

I'm not sure why I'm the puppy in the window you seem to want to single out. Most people live in circumstances common to my circumstances. Fewer than 1 in 5 have anything in common with yours. " isn't really accurate based on your statements regarding the utopia that you apparently live in. That isn't the basic urbanization in the US. You appear to be in an ideal area that most of us do not enjoy. Lucky for you!

Yes, we in the U.S. (and Canada) nowadays have a standard of living that is enviable to many other countries and better than any other point in history.

I'm grateful for all I have every day. Especially since the axe is starting to fly at work -- I hope no one throws it my way and chops my income off, but no one is safe and we just don't know how everything is going to shake out.

I am super grateful for running water. Hot water on demand?! Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I had a generlink switch installed recently. Another brand name but probably the same item being discussed. It is basically a metal plate installed into the breaker panel where you can disconnect from the main power incoming and then feed your panel from the generator instead. It is designed to protect the grid and the workers. I have not had to use it yet but I know it will be much easier to turn breakers on and off rather than running all those extension cords all over the place from the generator.

I will be super grateful one stormy day when I am not running extension cords to the koi pond and the freezer, etc.

I am always grateful I paid the hefty chunk of change to put that panel in. It does separate the house from the grid. It is right next to the electric meter and also has a wired connection to the water pump panel. We have a dual fuel kitchen range with a gas top so we can cook but not bake. I put some thought in here.

I have lived in town and I have lived on a farm and I have lived in a fairly remote community surrounded by mountains and so on. Here we are rural with mountain ridges, and you can see a volcano from the back of our property off in the distance. It is a nice place but not for everyone.

patriciae

I have a small generator that I can run if the power is off for extended times. just for the freezer and refer. I thought about a whole house system, but I havent really needed it. We taked abot getting a water system generator, but someone would have to maintain it, store it, start it, etc and so far we have done ok without it. One long outage, someone did take their personal generator to the pump house and ran the pump so we all could flush and replenish our drinking supply. with the woodstove I can cook and stay warm and so far the summers aren’t hot enough that we’d suffer too much if we couldn’t use the air conditioning. As long as there is no wildfire smoke. I do have great air purifiers I could run with the generator, along with fans, but so far haven’t needed to.

Hey PK, nice to hear from you. You've been more PKWander than Ponder but maybe you'll stick around more.

My thinking was perhaps the contrary of what you said. I was responding to the "we can't all live in town" comment that I found more untrue than not. Very long term trends clearly show continuing migration away from rural areas in favor of urban ones. Americans overwhelmingly live "in town". Take a look at the Wikipedia article I found and linked to, there's a lot of interesting info in it.

I made no specific mention of where I live, that isn't relevant. I consider it neither a utopia nor "ideal". It's great for some and not great for others, a description I think applies to most urban areas. People live in urban (as opposed to rural) areas very often for enhanced employment opportunities and reasons, then for access to conveniences and necessities of life, for better schools for their children, for cultural and other recreational life enrichment, and on and on.

For whatever reason, there remains a small and shrinking minority who are happy to live differently and without all the obvious benefits, conveniences and opportunities. Who knows why but fine.

Oly, you're so lucky to have a more temperate climate. No heat in 20 degrees is as bad as no ac when it's 90 with 80% humidity. Frankly I think I prefer the outages in winter bc it's easier to bundle up than cool down. However too long in the winter and frozen pipes need to be dealt with.

We have deferred a home generator bc the longest we've ever been without power was a few days. It was unpleasant...but I tried to keep reminding myself there are so many who live under way worse and would trade with us in a heartbeat. It would briefly help me feel better. Ha. (Our ancestors would be shocked how soft we are....)

Elmer - you seem to have the idea that living rural means you are hours away from civilization. I live in a rural area but I can be in the outer suburbs of KC in 20 minutes(20 miles) . I also worked in downtown KC (40 miles) and could be there in 45 minutes. How long would those drives take you in the your beloved urban California where a 10 mile drive may take 30 minutes or more?

Retired now and do not miss going into the city daily at all and now try to limit it to no more than once a week if that. There is a dollar general 2 miles away if I need something between trips into the city and believe it or not, Amazon will be able to find my rural house and deliver something the very next day.

I gladly trade your 'obvious benefits and conveniences' for the rural life without the noise, traffic, congestion, stress, and crime.

" I gladly trade your 'benefits and conveniences' for the rural life without the noise, traffic, congestion, stress, and crime. "

I'll bet that your assessment is based on limited or no personal knowledge or experiences concerning what my or anyone else's non-rural lifestyle in a thriving, in-demand area is all about. That's fine,. There are dozens and dozens of areas similar to where I live all around the country, there's really nothing unique about where I am aside from the near-constant fair weather. You're welcome to decide for yourself as you see fit.

Though as I said, and the linked page shows, the urbanization trend has been constant and continuing for over a century. If you want to think you're right and most everyone else is wrong, go for it!

Since you found it necessary to comment about where I am, I'll do the same - I've been to KC, been to Lees Summit and Overland Park, have been to many other places in neighboring states. You won't find me anywhere near there except for situations I couldn't decline. For more reasons than I would want to spend time listing. All the obvious ones known to people who would and do decline moving there.

Everyone finds their happiness in different places. Some for reasons broadly shared and thus where there's greater population, others elsewhere for reasons all their own.

I didn’t read that Lonejack disagreed with the urbanization trend at all.

I think he was just stating his preference for rural living. I prefer it as well. I find my happiness there. Lonejack seems to be a pretty happy guy. In my opinion, the positives far outweigh the negatives. But that is me. 🤷‍♀️

I have both rural living family members, and city living family members. I don’t think any of them have been negatively affected culturally, educationally, professionally or any other way because of their choices.

Just because ”most” people live a certain way, doesn’t make it the best way. It’s only the best way for that individual. I don’t care what the crowd is doing.

"Just because ”most” people live a certain way, doesn’t make it the best way."

Fine. I don't think I'd said best. I could say it's found to be the "better" choice, all things considered, by most. If between two rather different alternatives, one is preferred or chosen by most people by an overwhelming margin and the other has a small and declining percentage share, what adjectives would you use to describe the result?

I don’t know what adjective I would use. I just accept that some people like city living and some people like rural living.

What does it matter if an overwhelming margin of people prefer one way? It doesn’t.

Why even bring it up?

There is an old Indian saying ”If everyone saw my woman the same way I see her, everyone would want her.”

" If between two rather different alternatives, one is preferred or chosen by most people by an overwhelming margin and the other has a small and declining percentage share, what adjectives would you use to describe the result? "

One is more common than the other. You can't assign any judgemental adjectives (like preferred or better) because we don't know why one is more common than the the other.

" You can't assign any judgemental adjectives (like preferred or better) because we don't know why one is more common than the the other. "

Our judgmental participant has arrived. Welcome.

I do agree that more common is a good word. Again, aside from elections, do majorities often make ill-advised or unwarranted decisions?

I don't make judgments about people I don't know or things I don't understand. Having an opinion is having an opinion. The word "judgement" somehow implies making a moral or otherwise philosophical assessment, which I think most people rarely do.

To bring the thread back on topic. Ahem.

Today I am most grateful for Pet Super Stores nearby and air conditioning.

My A/C company and their pretty fridge magnet.

Great (or Grate?) name

" do majorities often make ill-advised or unwarranted decisions? "

Ill-advised or unwarranted doesn't mean it's good or desired - it could be the best of a bunch of bad options, or something chosen under duress of economic or health problems. Those people might prefer something else, and would choose something else under different circumstances.

Right now, I’m grateful to have AC running smoothly to keep the house cool in this unbearable weather. But during inclement weather events like after a hurricane or snowstorm, having a generator is a bonus to run the essentials like pump, AC, furnace, fridge, freezer, and to keep the water pipes from freezing.

" Those people might prefer something else, and would choose something else under different circumstances."

Yes, to an extent. Consequences of decisions affect decisions. And so consequences affect long term trends. I don't think many people who are trapped into making otherwise unwanted choices with undesired consequences tend to remain so "trapped" long term. Or, perhaps with a second choice action, the undesired consequences stop being undesired or at least become acceptable.

You've said you live in a small town. If more people shared your assessment of what it has to offer to make it a place of interest for you, it wouldn't long remain a small town.

I am grateful for my home and neighbors. I'm fortunate to live in a little city that is within a big city. I have lived in big cities all my life. I love how people have learned to adapt and make comfortable their homes and lives. The longest I have ever gone without electricity was for a week when we had a "dry" hurricane. We didn't get any rain but got winds so fierce they took out many trees and with it the electricity. It was interesting to live that way for a week. We had water so plumbing and drinking was not an issue. It was easily possible to drive to an area not affected to get food. It certainly was quiet. I was already retired so I didn't have to go to work.

I think for me, water is the most important. I could get bottled water but our tap water is good and it's all city water and sewage. I would be lost if I moved to the "country". I wouldn't know the first thing about existing in a world of wells and septic tanks. Any time I ever was looking for a house, it had to have city water and plumbing or I wouldn't consider it. It's what I'm used to and what I can afford.

I'm not sure most people just "choose" to live wherever they want. I would say most people cannot afford that luxury. I only know a few who that would apply to. I am grateful that this is a big country and there is something for everyone for the most part.

Sometimes it is difficult to see from any other perspective than our own.

Agreed murraysmom. I grew up in a city. I raised my children in a city. Enjoyed it all. I was one who thought that I would be perfectly happy living in a city. And then, through a second property (a getaway) I discovered the benefits of rural living. I no longer wanted a getaway, I wanted a ”live there”. I had lived 43 years in a city, and now I’ve lived 24 in the country. I know what both sides have to offer.

My husband and I sold our city home, changed our plans of moving to a nice city condo, sold our country getaway, and built our rural property.

My sister did the opposite. Our parents taught us to do our own thing, and accept others. Our family was fortunate to have choices. I’m grateful for that.

It was the right decision for us.

roxsol, did moving to a rural setting require a change of employment? Or was work done remotely?

@murraysmom Zone 6a OH "I wouldn't know the first thing about existing in a world of wells and septic tanks." As I grew up a city kid, I would have thought that, too, but it's not complicated! Luckily, there are people who specialize in those things for a living! The money I save on water bills and sewer charges easily pays to have the septic pumped every few years and any well pump issues. I pay $120 a year for all the water I want to use, a couple hundred dollars every few years for pumping the septic.

But I totally understand the reluctance to make the switch. In our area, municipal services don't extend beyond the city limits, but what is considered the city itself is a much larger geographical area. The lots are larger, often forested, miles and miles of coastlines on Puget Sound (beautiful saltwater properties) where you couldn't live if you didn't accept wells and septic. It's been a painless transition for me.

Oly, I envy you your water bill. I pay about $65 a month for water and sewer. As nice as it sounds to live in such a beautiful area, #1 I couldn't afford it and #2 I am spoiled by having everything I need so close by. I have to be content with visiting such wonderful places and I do that as I can.

" I am spoiled by having everything I need so close by. "

This is the point.

I've seen many articles over the years about the growing trend for people who, once they become empty nesters, leave homes in exurbs or other outlying suburb locations, in favor of living in closer in, more convenient neighborhoods. Including in many cases, moving to downtown city centers.

There's also a longstanding trend, not so much in my region but elsewhere, for retirees to move to retirement communities. The attraction for many being a more active social and outdoor life because of the programs and facilities offered. And the lifestyle offered by such communities because of the proximity to others of similar age. These communities tend to be well served by conveniently located retail and other businesses who see such neighborhoods as offering good business opportunities.

I think the more common trend for retirement life is to congregate, not evacuate.

“roxsol, did moving to a rural setting require a change of employment? Or was work done remotely?”

no

no

" "I wouldn't know the first thing about existing in a world of wells and septic tanks." "

When I moved into this house, I called the company name that was on the water softener salt tank, and asked them to come over, give the system a check, and instruct me on what I need to do to keep it running well. As it happened, the serviceman knew the original owners of the house, and knew my system inside and out. Later, when I needed some trenches dug for my propane pipes, I later found out the man I called had dug the hole for the foundation for when this house was built, and for the septic system. It was like old home week.

@murraysmom Zone 6a OH, I'm 10 minutes from the State Capitol campus and everything a town/city of our size offers. Olympia city itself is 60k but it also encompasses two other cities (the borders are indistinguishable) Tumwater and Lacey for a total population of around 150k . Tacoma (close to 250k) is about a 20 minute drive, Seattle metro (over 4m) a little over an hour. The Pacific Ocean a little more than an hour, Mt Rainier, the Olympic and Cascade mountains for hiking and skiing are both an hour or so away. Portland is 2 hours away. So there is little sacrifice of needs here, however, I can't walk to a store or anything and most of our county has no public transportation once you are outside the city limits, which is not ideal, but most everything you could want is available. Not trying to convince you to move here, but just because a large portion of the population in the most desirable residential areas have wells and septic, there is no sacrifice in the quality of life!

“I think the more common trend for retirement life is to congregate, not evacuate.”

I think it is, too.

We’re retired from our jobs, but not our life!

We’ve built a bocce court on our property and our lifelong friends often come to spend an afternoon, sitting outdoors, having a beer and visiting.

This Tuesday, I’m having my annual Canada Day BBQ. This year will be small <20 people, but when Canada Day falls on a three day weekend, it can be 40 people. There’s no problem with parking space.

The local golf course has a seniors day, which we avoid as it is too busy that day.

I’m not going to live somewhere just preparing for my old age. We could be lucky and live the rest of our lives out here. If we can’t, we’ll move. 🤷‍♀️ But until then….

As long as I can climb on the riding mower, and husband can plow snow, we’re going to enjoy it. We can also hire someone. 🤠 I like to spend my time doing, not waiting.