Roxol your Dad sounds like a wonderful father. Elmer just couldn't help himself.

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satine, he was a wonderful father. Both my parents were wonderful.

I must have missed what Elmer said. 🤷‍♀️

eta My father was a gentleman, successful business man, and I never heard him once belittle anyone. He was very confident in who he was. So was my mother.

Just looked.

I can’t imagine that Elmer was talking about my family or trying to belittle anyone else’s. That would be pretty unsophisticated.😉

I'm loving reading these! I agree, roxsol, your Dad does sounds like he was wonderful!

I think the electric toothbrush story is the winner so far! LOL!

I had a few people in my family that didn't drive. I remember my Mom telling me that my cousin was too afraid to drive. That was her excuse. Not sure about any of the other ones. I think it's so odd that someone wouldn't want to drive. I cannot imagine not having my wheels! I dread the day when I'm too old to drive! UGH! The story goes that my grandmother was the first woman to learn to drive in her town. She was born late 1900s. She was ahead of her time! :)

arkansas girl, my mother was never interested in driving. I’m not sure what caused her to pick it up in her forties, but she bought herself a snazzy little white car and drove until she passed away in her ’80’s. . We lived in a fair sized city and were within walking distance of most things. I never rode a bus to school. We walked.

I loved learning to drive. So did my two younger sisters. My older one, not so much. I don’t think she ever drove, even though she took lessons. She is 73 years old and has never owned a car. She still lives in the city.

I used to work with a woman who peeled her banana from the stubby end down to the stalk end. I used to think that was so odd until I tried it. LOL….it’s way better that way. I’m not sure if my way was the odd way or her way was.

I think I first saw that approach with bananas at the zoo.

(Done by one of the residents, not by a fellow human)

fudd wrote quoting me:'" I come from a family where women didn’t drive"

This comment and similar ones by others are a bit shocking to me. Families who hadn't adapted to modern times? Backward attitudes? It perhaps explains the source of some attitudes.'

Apparently you are incapable of learning that it is inappropriate to try to insult others' families. Wasn't it just 2 days ago that you did it to Rob's child and were soundly slapped down by others here.? I'll ask for the 3rd time, who do you think you are?

I Know I should try to have compassion for you but I no longer do. Will someone please flag his comments above.

Oly, my favorite conceit. I cant be offended by someone whose opinion I do not value.

The comment seems to be gone, so thank you to whomever flagged it.

I'm wildly allergic to wasps. Like I would have to use an EpiPen or go to an ER if I get stung again. For some reason they decided to make a nest to my fireplace, sometime last year? They all emerged and I took everything the last one of them from the fireplace to the window in the living room. Right about the 20th or 30th one I thought are they telling everyone go back around through the fireplace to ride the broom over to the window, like it was some kind of roller coaster for wasps? And that I just laughed. That seemed odd enough. But today I was outside walking around outside on a wasp flew directly at my forehead, and bumped into it. Didn't sting me. It was more like it was headbutting me? Is that odd??? I'm the wasp whisperer

I thought of another thing I found odd...regarding my husband. I used to tease him about it - but I have no idea how long it took me to notice this. He wasn't fussy about food touching on his plate, but somehow, at the end of EVERY meal, he would have one bite of everything left. Didn't matter the percentage of each food that made up his plate, a bunch of one thing, a little of something else. One bite of each was left at the end of the meal.

My grandson is really fussy about food touching or especially being mixed together. He came out of the womb that way. He'd eat most things but you better not try to mix a bite of broccoli with applesauce. It would all be spit out instantly (when he was an infant and being fed). As he got older, he wanted food separated and didn't like using the same utensil for different foods. I eventually served him with lots of tiny plates/bowls, each with it's own utensil. It made him so happy and was easy to do. His mother thought it was ridiculous and teased us both. He still loves eating here, lol.

Re the crunchy food thing - my SO also would not eat them. Once I had some chocolate candy sticks with a hard center. He tried and tried to bite into one, but just couldn't. I laughed, and he agreed it was weird. I don't recall if he could eat snacks like pretzels, etc.

Same thing with Reese's Peanut Butter Cups, he said peanut butter and chocolate together was "disgusting".

My maternal grandfather had one of the early Fords. He'd drive past my DM's one-room schoolhouse in rural RI (downhill) in the mornings, then she'd hold her breath when he returned (uphill). The kids would tease her when the Ford stalled.

DM got such a fine education in that little school that when they moved to Providence when she was 14, the HS principal didn't know where to place her. She'd accomplished their whole curriculum. She left HS to go to work at 16 following her DF's stroke and was the sole source of income for the family through the Depression. She took secretarial classes and was private secretary to the director of personnel at a Providence department store (Sheppard's) when she left to marry.

DM hated leaving the countryside (and her dog, Beauty). Her life there provided many bedtime stories for me as a child. I was an adult when I finally deciphered my DGM's reasoning for leaving the countryside. She told me it was because, "The bulls were getting over the fences."

You probably understand instantly, but I was only a child when told.

Elmer, my cousin’s husband does both! He finishes each item on the plate one at at time, wipes the area with a piece of bread, then moves on to the next item. He wont eat anything that touches another thing on the plate. He claims he's never had a bananasplit, but he likes pie ala mode as long as the icecream doesnt touch the pie.

Elmer, regarding the hearing music in one’s head, I don’t know. But I’m sure it can’t replace hearing it for real, with the vibrations and surrounding one. Kind like hearing Beethoven’s Fifth Symphony or The Who’s Tommy as a recording versus live.

My kids’ piano teacher was deaf. She read lips and signed, was difficult to understand verbally, yet heard every wrong note the kids played, without exception. she continued to play beautifully into her old age. I never learned her history.

After a year or so she told us that middle son was a gifted musician with perfect touch and interpretation, youngest son was a barroom faker who could make a good living because he could play anything by ear but had absolutely no understanding of music theory, and that she regretted having to tell us this, but oldest son would never become a pianist, he seemed to have a tin ear. She recommended that he no longer take lessons, which of course pleased him.

She was correct on all counts. Middle son is a professional musician with masters degrees in performance on piano and trombone, youngest son plays joyfully but cannot read music, oldest son is relieved to have been able to quit when he did. We were lucky to know her.

There's an odd and profound way that what I'll awkwardly call a "oneness with music" can get embedded in some people and not in others. One manifestation of this is visible (by one who "knows", like this piano teacher) when comparing two pupils. As is typical for most in this situation, one student plays a song by simply repeating by rote or by reading sheet music the notes in order and with proper tempo. In a flat way. Another, one who "gets it", PLAYS THE SONG with feeling and, using your word, interpretation. A manifestation of those for whom music gets embedded is the ability to play by ear, on the fly. This gifted piano teacher could see what was happening with your kids, it's something I suspect good teachers can assess with ease.

A thought about this came to me once - there are perhaps tens of millions of people in the US, perhaps fewer now than in years past, who can play Für Elise. People who have taken piano lessons, this is a song so many are given to learn.

Of those tens of millions, I would guess it's a small percentage who can sit down at a piano without prior preparation and play "Happy Birthday" if that song hadn't been taught to them. Those with the "sense" can play this song or many others they're heard, for the first time. Played correctly if only basically on the fly with the melody done by the right hand and correct chords/accompaniment played by the left hand too. Why can so many not do that? Because they played piano mechanically, and the sense of music never got embedded in them.

Oh, and I believe people who have what I've probably described inaccurately as a "musical sense" can hear music in their head.

I know what I've described to be true because for whatever reason, I have this sense and ability. I can sit down at an instrument that requires no technique or practice to produce a sound, like a keyboard or a guitar, and play random songs I've heard before that someone mentions, or that I think of. Usually not precisely but very close, first time.

It's quite odd but it's something I do pretty regularly for fun, from time to time.

?????

The topic is odd things, Sherry. Sheeshie brought up music.

Have a great day!

??????

@Sheeshie - I was in my 40s before my pie (or cobbler) a la mode could be served with the ice cream actually on the pie/cobbler. I always had my ice cream in a separate dish.

To this day, I don’t like cake with ice cream on the same plate

Elmer, in a M*A*S*H episode, Charles mourns that he can play the notes, but he cannot play the music. I think there are other things like that, in writing, reading, even putting together an outfit or cooking. Conversation, for that matter, too.

DH would not eat greenbeans when I first met him because they squeaked. He eventually recovered from that affliction.

I knew a great many music majors in college. Just chance. Astonishing to me was the difficulty that most of them had in playing or singing without sheet music. One of the requirements was to learn pieces and play or sing from memory. It was a huge challenge for them. I used to sing christmas carols with a group. We did five part versions. I was not there for my extroidinary voice. The others were amazing but I was adequate. I was there for pitch. I do not have perfect pitch, I can remember the proper pitch. The exact right starting point is really important in five part singing and keeping pitch is important and I do both. I am describing this as someone who doesn't read music or know the details. I could never learn to read music. It was just automatic for me to learn the tune instead of following the written notes.

patriciae

My husband ties his shoes in an odd way. He was taught by his mother who had lost her right hand in an accident when she was in her late teens.

I do the one loop and a wrap around and pull through. I’ve seen others do the two loops and then a wrap around. He ties his shoes in a unique way.

They don’t come undone so I guess that’s all that counts.

bpath, interesting that you would remember such a scene. That's a clear description, can play notes but can't play music. I agree that there are many similar skills some people have, things they can do with a profound understanding and ability others don't have. I think such a sense for music is different.

patriciae describes something similar but maybe a bit different. Of the music majors, I think there are two ways to play without sheet music - one way is to memorize the sequence and tempo of the notes to be played. The other way is to learn the song, not the notes, and then play what you hear in your head. At least that's how it works for me.

I suspect music majors who had to memorize note sequences rather than "learn songs" and play from that were handicapped in their careers after graduating. Someone who needs sheet music to play from (other than a session musician) is probably restricted to teaching. Someone with a sense of music has the ability to be a professional musician. I suspect most have this sense I've poorly described.

Ever see someone playing the piano in public. Whether a bar, a hotel lobby, an airport, or wherever. Rarely do you see sheet music. They carry their repertoires in their heads.

"Do you know Cry Me A River"?

"Sure, I'll play that next".

My father was a music major (BS and MS of music). He could read music and play multiple instruments, and was also a professional musician for many years.

He could not "play by ear" which is what is being discussed in this thread (hearing music in your head and being able to play it on an instrument of your choosing).

I, too, am a classically trained musician (piano, flute, violin, tympani, and horn). I can read music and can play "musically" - meaning, I know what *sounds* right. I don't play by intervals or mathematical calculations, which is how my father played. I play by "feel" instead. He was flummoxed that I didn't calculate the next note, and I was flummoxed (and horrified) that he did *math* to make music.

I've memorized a great number of pieces, and can sit down and play them with no music in front of me.

Another good description - playing musically.

I'm surprised to hear of a pro who needed sheet music. That has to have limited his work opportunities. I know from stories and interviews of session musicians during the high flying years of 60s-80s that often they'd walk into a studio, would hear a simple rendering of a melody via recording playback or on a piano, would be given a key, and then left for 15-20 minutes to devise their own parts. Solos included, which rarely were played the same in repetitive takes unless asked to do so. A runthrough or two for polish and then the recording machine was turned on.

Your spectrum of instruments, all different and requiring different techniques to play, is impressive. As a kid in school, I played orchestral and band brass instruments as each playing group had unfilled positions - trumpet, baritone horn (now more often called euphonium), and French Horn, but to play those involved mostly the same skills. Fingering with a different hand and a smaller mouthpiece for the French Horn, minor differences.

Single note instruments or those played with single and multi notes and chords - like a guitar - are easier to play by ear than to play a piano piece.

"I'm surprised to hear of a pro who needed sheet music."

This is a weird assertion. I can't say I've ever seen a symphony orchestra or string quartet play without music. And many world famous classical soloists use it occasionally.

He didn't need sheet music. He memorized what he played.

Exactly Chartreuse

I was in Austria at a ancient musical instrument building venue. I startled the highly gifted head of this venue by singing an ancient air-fairly complex piece and he said I was exactly on the pitch at the end that I started with and that was a rare gift. He has perfect pitch. I have no idea how that happens. It does seem to be by feel. The phrasing is just there. We were there to build Nickleharpas. Fun times. DH has a real gift and feel for wood. He is self taught. I can follow directions.

It is strange to me that so many people spend years learning to do something like play the piano and are still no good at it. And then there are those who can.

patriciae

" I can't say I've ever seen a symphony orchestra or string quartet play without music. "

Floral, I think I had "songs" in mind, not long pieces, with my comment.

In any event, you have no way to know which musicians are actually playing from what they had in front of them rather than from memory or by ear. As Chartreuse Scorpion notes, her father memorized what he played. As a kid, when I was playing one part in an arranged piece of music played by a group, I mostly played from memory too.

Playing by ear is something different.

Oh, and I've seen many chamber pieces performed without music on stands in front of the musicians. And piano performances too. Surely you must also have unless your exposure to live music is limited.

" It is strange to me that so many people spend years learning to do something like play the piano and are still no good at it. "

That's true about a wide range of activities people do or try to do, not just playing the piano or other musical instruments. Some people have a knack for doing something, others have a knack for being unable to do or get better.

Edit to add:

I think there's a difference between having perfect pitch and the ability to stay in tune. Perfect pitch to me means that upon hearing a note, one can say "That's F# or Bb". Or the reverse, "Sing G" and it's sung spot on. Staying in tune means as with singing, perhaps starting some or many cents off the precision of an exact note (or even exactly in tune) but continuing consistently in that relationship with subsequent notes. The lack of such an ability is often evident as at sporting events when a national anthem is sung live, a capella.

It's often said that talent for math and music 'go together'. Given what's been discussed about playing with and without sheet music, would math apply more to one way or the other?

I got scared of math as a child and never recovered, but I like some forms of music, and I can see how math applies to music.

I love music so much and cannot carry a tune in a basket. I played instruments as a child and even tho I had tremendous desire, absolutely no talent and could never learn to read music. When I was in Jr. High School I studied French and never could get to the place where I didn't have to translate in my head...never could just flow in French. I likened those two things as being similar. I could not wrap my brain around those two different 'languages.' I was always excellent in Math and was put in Advanced math classes in 7th grade (the only girl) where we were being used as testers for the 'new math' that was rolled out for students several years later. So, for me, math and music didn't correlate.

I've heard that too and took a look. i found the following:

" Let’s meet seven famous scientists who were also talented musicians:

1. Satyendra Nath Bose: The renowned Indian physicist, after whom bosons are named, was a master of the Indian stringed instrument Esraj and a trained classical musician.
2. Albert Einstein: The genius behind the theory of relativity loved playing the violin. He said music helped him solve difficult scientific problems by clearing his mind and sparking creativity.
3. Richard Feynman: This Nobel Prize-winning physicist loved playing the bongo drums and experimenting with rhythms. He used music to connect with others and explore new ways of thinking.
4. Max Planck: The founding father of quantum theory played several instruments, including the piano, organ, and cello. He even composed his songs and operas.
5. Brian May: The lead guitarist of Queen is also an astrophysicist. (Elmer notes - he has a PhD) Brian May’s dual love for space and music proves that you can follow multiple passions in life.
6. Brian Cox: This English particle physicist started his career as a keyboard player in the rock bands Dare and D: Ream, with hits like “Things Can Only Get Better.”
7. Werner Heisenberg: A pioneer of quantum mechanics, Heisenberg was a prodigious pianist who could read sheet music at just four years old. Though he pursued physics, his love for music remained lifelong. "

Thanks, Olychick.

I guess I *sing* ear, copying what I've heard. I think DH and DS have near perfect pitch; not me. Listening to trained voices has spoiled most popular singers for me. I notice their poor breath control; sliding into notes; sloppy enunciation. They can't stay on key or be heard without a microphone and help from audio mixers.

olychick, I'm not sure if an individual's aptitude for music and languages are connected but there is one commonality I experienced with both, and it's the effect of long hours of practice.

Even for a child, with music it takes years and years of lessons and a cumulative number of hundreds/thousands of hours of practicing to reach any level beyond being a beginner.

Learning any language will often be fruitless until one has the chance to have a similar hundreds and thousands of hours of study and use, often accelerated when one can immerse in an environment for enough time where listening and speaking are required on a daily basis.

Both take time and persistence.

There is both agreement and disagreement about what Gladwell calls the 10,000 hour rule. The notion that perhaps 10,000 hours of practice/work/hands on doing, are required to master any skill or subject matter. I don't think the number itself is necessarily meaningful in absolute terms but I think there's validity to the premise.

I'm skimming, but what I know is, as a musician (yes I have played for decades), I start out with the sheet music, but I later play it in my manner and my emotions flowing into what I'm playing. If I can't play it from memory and flowing, I don't know it enough to play it properly.

Oly, learning a foreign language is hard. I took 4 years of French in HS, but swear until I spent a few weeks on my own in France nothing really clicked. It is different being immersed in it vs spending an hour in a classroom.

I understand exactly what you mean about still having to translate in your head. After just a week or so of immersion that "having to translate" went away, in a way 4 years of classroom training never approached. So don't discount your potential aptitude if a classroom was your only exposure to it. 😊

Thanks, Ally De. I think part of the problem for me was that it was really the first class/subject that didn't come easy for me, that I didn't excel at without much effort. I think I became discouraged about it too quickly. Hadn't yet learned perseverance!

I'd had an enjoyable 4 years of French through high school and for whatever reason, it came easy to me and I remembered more of it than I imagined was possible. Using it during my first few trips to Europe showed me I had a good foundation. When we then moved to a French speaking country, I hit the ground running. I made a effort to read a daily newspaper, watch TV, speak French at work to the extent I could and the result was much as one would expect.

I'm out of practice now but I still retain enough to get off a train or plane and start right in. A lot comes back after just a few days.

If I happen to encounter French here unexpectedly (like a French language TV show with English subtitles), I can off the bat understand 50% plus, and my reading comprehension is higher. I think others who've had a chance for cultural immersion as an opporunity to improve or learn a language have similar experiences. My wife, whose school language studies had been Spanish and Italian, took classes while we were there and of course spent her days in French-speaking locales. She developed a reasonable advanced beginner level capability. But with a Spanish accent.

I had at three different roommates who studied music theory which is the math of music.

The sounds made and the relationships of those sounds is math. It was news to me at the time. One of my music friends turned out to be a physics genius. The subject is a hard one for most music majors but it is a part of mastering the subject of music. I can only say that from afar since I had no idea what was entailed. A degree in music means you are supposed to understand that stuff.

Language cant be all that hard since we all learn it by rote so to speak. Children can learn several languages at a time. But like so many things it is easier when you are very young and your brain open to new stuff. I dont think it works like that with music though.

patriciae

It's not so much that learning "a language" is something everyone does. It's that learning a second language can be difficult, especially as an adult.

One foreign language learning obstacle we Americans must deal with is that too many of us attended schools in which the study of English as an academic subject wasn't given adequate coverage.

All languages have parts of speech. parts of a sentence. In German, there are cases which change the endings of words and other words related to them depending on the word's role in a sentence. What's an indirect object? What's the pluperfect or subjunctive tense? You can't learn this stuff in a different language if you don't know it in your first language. Trust me, studying a different language will improve your English.

That’s exactly true. Even though I had a pretty traditional English class experience including parts of speech, parsing, etc, which I enjoyed, studying a second language took it leaps and bounds. We have so many tenses that use the same form, so we are not aware of them. Once you have to use a different form, you learn!

And immersion does help. As much as I enjoyed learning French, I was not a stellar student. But a summer homestay with a lovely family in Normandy made me much more fluid and comfortable in it. My French teacher noticed when school started up again in the fall.

Here’s my own oddity: I love handbells. okay, that’s odd enough. But I love watching handbell performances. I love ringing::I ring in two church choirs and an auditioned community ensemble. But I cannot listen to it. I just can’t. I think what it is, is that handbell ringers have to communicate with one another differently than other ensemble musicians do, except maybe jazz performers. And I love being aware of that subtle communication and cooperation. And the physical action is like watching a drummer with amazing technique combined with dance. But my handbell audios just gather dust.

Also, I love bananas, but nothing banana-flavored, or anything with banana in it except a strawberry-banana smoothie. No banana daiquiris, thank you.

I can’t eat peas because they pop in my mouth.

"Surely you must also have unless your exposure to live music is limited."

Just can't resist the patronizing little dig can you? Suffice to say you couldn't be more wrong.

floral, I know that you have had, and still do, a lot of exposure to live music. I’ve seen so many of your wonderful pictures from all over! You are a very well travelled individual.

Thanks to all for adding their comments. Popping peas and squeaky beans.. 😀

People can be funny.

floral, I thought your calling my thought "weird" to be an unnecessary snarky and provocative comment.

On the topic - I believe for the types of music most people listen to most and see live performances of most, the musicians generally don't have sheet music. In what has become a small corner of the music world, sheet music is more commonly seen. For such types of music, do the musicians play from the sheet music or, alternatively, play by "knowing" their part? There's no way for an observer to know .

So to hear of one pro musician who "needed" sheet music and played a bit mechanically in a performing art that most don't do either, I said I was "surprised". That's hardly weird.