Do you have a good recipe to share for Pesach mandelbroit?

Your menu sounds solid, and worth the repetition. :) My folks always did our traditional menu--again, how to feed several dozen sit down from their very small kitchen-- but they made me take over Seder after I'd packed away my dishes for a kitchen remodel--no matter what the package says, disposable bowls are not good for soup! That's when I started varying the menu. My current kitchen is much bigger and has more ways of making things. The family like the variety so long is it isn't too far from what they're used to. They'll be fine with chicken instead of turkey, but wouldn't care for a soufflé instead of poultry, or a stew instead of intact meat.

Have you made matzah toffee? Or your own chocolate covered matzah? It's so much better than the pathetic bought stuff. I love baking but I can't handle making cakes and the dinner both, though I was thinking of making matzah toffee for the chocolate lovers. With so many fewer, I can make a two matzot batch, instead of six, and not have to clear a whole fridge shelf for it or anything.

Lars has a great recipe for a Middle Eastern flavoured roast chicken which I've been using for years. You mix butter with various spices, garlic, thyme and some other herbs and slide it under the skin of the chicken before roasting. Lemons are squeezed over the chicken before stuffing the halves in the cavity. Obviously for a Seder that wouldn't work, but I would think you could mix the spice/herbs mix with oil to make a paste and go from there.

Edited to add- I didn't consider margarine as a substitute (SMH) but that would work even better than oil to add bulk to the paste.

@colleenoz Lars' roast chicken would certainly work with olive oil. Sadly I'm not even allowed to sub chicken for the turkey meal.

Fortunately I've taught my granddaughter how to carve, so I'm relieved of that duty.

@plllog Gladly sharing the Passover Mandel bread recipe:

Passover Mandel Bread

Yield: 24 slices

Prep: 10 mins

Bake: 57 mins to 1 hr 350°F

Ingredients

1/2 cup (1 stick) margarine, at room temperature

2 cups sugar

6 eggs

2 3/4 cups matzoh cake meal

3/4 cup potato starch

1 cup mini chocolate chips

1 cup chopped or sliced almonds

1 teaspoon cinnamon mixed with

2 teaspoons sugar

Directions

1. Heat oven to 350 degrees . Coat a large baking sheet with nonstick cooking spray. Parchment works, too.

2. In a large bowl, beat margarine and sugar until smooth. Beat in eggs, one at a time, beating well after each addition.

3. Sift together matzoh cake meal and potato starch. Stir into the sugar-margarine mixture until combined. Fold in the chocolate chips and almonds.

4. Form into 2 loaves, each about 2 inches wide, on prepared baking sheet. Sprinkle tops with cinnamon-sugar mixture.

5. Bake at 350 degrees for 45 minutes. Remove loaves from oven and cool slightly. Slice into 1/2-inch-thick slices. (The recipe calls for additional baking as follows …but we dont do this, they're firm enough as it is.)Place slices on baking sheet and return to oven for 12 to 15 minutes more until slightly crisp and lightly browned. Cool slices and serve.

If there are leftovers, we keep them in a tupperware type container

Thank-you, Blubird! I tried one recipe ages ago, and, like many pesadich desserts, it was dry as the desert. I mean way beyond the dryness that's natural to mandelbroit. I'm guessing the potato starch makes the difference. I can't find the orange cake recipe which is light as air, and with the small group, I think this will work well. And just berries for fruit.

The big problem for me in doing chicken instead of turkey is lack of stuffing. I finally got the hang of my mother's matzah and mandelin stuffing. It's SO good! So now thinking of it, I'm guessing that was the appeal of the mushroom and chard kugel—kind of similar flavors if you squint and sub chard for the green peppers. I think I'm going to try it, though I think it won't really count as a starch. We do rice for Pesach (minhag), but only as a “vegetable” when it's easily identified as rice. That might pair well with the rest.

I would so come over for dinner, heh. Long ago my sis had a guy, I still miss those holiday dinners with the living room filled with extra tables and so much food. I just picked up egg matzo to make her Passover surprise. I got a great deal on spring asparagus :) It's kind of a lasagna, but with matzo instead of noodles. The fillings are bechamel, cheese, veggies- broccoli, asparagus, and artichokes.

Beesneeds, that sounds delicious. I've made sort of similar kinds of things but never with egg matzah or béchamel. I can totally imagine it, and I'm going to have to try it. I always get bored near the end, and this sounds like a nice change of pace.

I found Annie's post of Lars's Algerian chicken recipe. That's way more than I want to do for a couple of chickens, but it does sound good and I've saved it.

I gotta dig up the recipe to remember how it's made, I'll post it up here when I do.

Thanks, Beesneeds! Don't work too hard at it, though. A recipe is always good to have, but if it's hard to find I can just take what you said and invent my own.

ETA: I was searching the archive for an old recipe and came upon a Pesash chocolate meringue cookie that looks good. I think if I lean towards nuts in the mandelbroit rather than the chocolate chips, and have the chocolate meringue cookies, and perhaps the brownies that a cousin usually brings, plus the berries, that's plenty of dessert. If I make a big ol' honey cake they'll only eat a quarter of it.

@plllog I don't go to as much trouble as Lars- I just make up the spice/butter mix, squish it under the chicken skin, squeeze the lemons over it and pop it into the oven. Delish! I also generally make up a double or even triple batch of the ground spices and keep the extra in jar to save a bit of trouble. Could you stuff a chicken with your mother's stuffing?

OMG!! I found the recipe for the orange cake!! I stopped making it because a couple of cousins are allergic to nuts (that was the year they actually told me!). I'm good with the cookies for this year, but I was trying to find the recipe. While I was posting the above, a different cousin called and while we were talking about the holiday it all of a sudden popped into my head that the recipe was for lemon cake and I just made it with oranges. There it was in my old recipe files as lemon cake. I did a search and found the source online:

https://www.lifesafeast.net/lemon-almond-sponge-cake-for-passover-gluten-free/

No recipe help but I can assure you that it is NEVER too early to talk about holiday festivity!

@plllog That lemon (orange) cake sounds delighful and has been duly copied. Do you use the potato flour or do you sub with almond flour or potato starch? I checked online that there is such an item as potato flour, but it also looks like the terms potato flour amd potato starch seem to be used interchangeably.

As to following the mandel bread recipe, dryness is the reason we don't slice and further bake the cookies. They’re sort of like a soft cookie when first baked and I'd love to have them with nuts…but alas, there too my family will only eat with chocolate chips, so that's the way my daughter will bake them. They do keep well in tupperware, but they don't last long here. They can be frozen as well.

Ahh, matzoh crack….definitely better than purchased chocolate covered matzah. We stick it into the freezer so it keeps really well and we don't hear it calling us.

@colleenoz I definitely will make one meal with your adaptation of Lars' Algerian chicken. it's just the kind of flavor profile I crave during Passover. Roasted potatoes would make a good side, I think.

@beesneeds your veggie lasagna is perfect. That has to go on my list as well; it's different from the red sauce and cheese matzagna we usually make. If only my vegetarian daughter would eat vegetables. 🤪

Yes, potato flour and potato starch are the same thing, and yes, I used it. The trick is getting the big bag rather than the little box. The price savings is ridiculous. Even moreso for arrowroot starch, btw.

We like mandelbroit hard like Grandma's, but not dry. I'll figure it out. ;) Actually, I really think it's the potato starch, and the eggs. Knowing it's a T&T recipe to start with is the trick. Thanks, again for the recipe.

This is the chocolate meringue cookie. I think it was posted by Cloud Swift.

https://thecafesucrefarine.com/chocolate-chewy-meringue-cookies/

I've been thinking eggs (a ritual food), chicken soup (traditional) and chicken is redundant. I've been known to do other soups. Maybe a minestrone kind of soup? With machine diced veg in it. But tiny matzah balls (dumplings)? Matzah spaetzle? (Those are really good and dead easy). Gnocchi? (cloud little dumplings)

Pulled the recipe out. It's marked 2012 :) I'm going to write it out how she did then.

Passover Surprise

1 (to 1 1/2) boxes matzo crackers

3(ish) lg bunches broccoli, steamed

2(ish) lg bunches asparagus, steamed

2-3 cans artichoke hearts

2+ cups shredded mozarella

1(ish) cup good parmesan

2+ cups mild yellow cheese (American, colby, cheddar, ect)

6+ cups bechamel (divided, 1/2)

White pepper (approx 1/2 tsp)

dried minced onion (approx 1 tbsp)

softened unsalted butter

Scarboro herb mix (parsley, sage, rosemary, thyme) approx 1 tsp

9x13 pan (adjust qty's according to pan size)

Line pan w/buttered matzos (butter both sides)

2 bechamel mixes:

1/2 artichoke w/onion

1/2 asparagus w/white pepper

Layer asparagus mix on bottom, cover w/ layer of mozzarella

Layer of buttered matzos

Layer of steamed broccoli w/ yellow cheese

Buttered Matzos

Layer artichoke w/parmesan

Top w/ buttered matzos, leftover cheeses, Scarboro mix

Bake 1 hr+, 350-375 degrees

Let cool! Serve "warm" (not hot) so pieces stay solid.

Recipe done, my notes. The artichoke hearts need to be well drained. I know I have used artichoke quarters in the past, but they are really wet and almost need to be squeezed out. Spinach can be subbed into one of the bechamel mixes, but it can't be used as a sub in the broccoli layer. Cauliflower can be subbed in the broccoli layer. The béchamel uses whole milk. And it can be made the day before and just warmed up a bit for serving. The recipe calls for matzo, I think the regular ones since egg isn't specifically stated. I'm using egg ones this time because they happened to be the ones on sale.

Wow! That sounds rich! Thanks for posting the recipe.

I've come to my senses somewhat and for all the barbecue theme might be fun, there's no way I should be asking the company to gnaw on bones! I think I did shortribs one year, but I think that was for a small second Seder, not the crowd. Well, not a crowd anymore, anyway. At least short ribs can be eaten with a knife and fork. But too hard to serve to a mixed crowd. So sliced makes the most sense for beef. Duh. That's the thing about the tradition of brisket and turkey. Sliced makes portioning and serving so easy. As in a slice and a half per diner, sliced in the kitchen and passed on platters. Ho hum. So, the chicken will be fussy enough, and I'm thinking I should try to learn the Jacques Pepin four snips and it's off the carcass bit. I have the book with masses of pictures. Or I could just let the butcher break down the chickens. Or buy boneless breasts and thigh. I hate to do that, though, because the bones are where the flavor is.

I’m just popping in to say that potato starch is not the same as potato flour. The latter is made from whole potatoes.

https://support.bobsredmill.com/hc/en-us/articles/26292159396755-Are-potato-starch-and-potato-flour-the-same-product

That's interesting, PM. Thanks! In my experience, ”potato flour” has been a term used in England meaning potato starch. My suspicion (not a known fact) is that this ”potato flour” from Bob's is a fairly new product (though more companies may also have it) for the gluten free crowd. This is the first I've heard of it, and I find the exact same verbiage repeated all over the 'net, which usually implies they're just repeating something from a generative source.

Potato starch (and tapioca) is used in Passover cooking because it's not on the ancient forbidden list, being new world, and not tiny stuff that's easily mistaken for wheat. Nor are they traditionally grown near wheat (or barley or rye). There are people whose job it is to sit around and contemplate this stuff. ;)

So, I'd guess that this whole potato flour would also be kosher for passover, but would be discouraged, There's a push-pull between eating matzah as a reminder of the decades in the wilderness, when all were equal, and none had much, and the ”festive” part of the ”festive meal” where we're supposed to celebrate with our very best, and provide both abundance and variety. Which leads to months of planning, or the well crafted, tried and true menu year after year, The days between (7-8 in all), past the leftovers, generally have simpler meals, but inventive and special for the holiday, and the the last day or two has holiday restrictions and many have traditions for the closing meals as well.

I can state with 100% certainty that Bob’s sold both potato starch and potato flour in 2010. They are not interchangeable.

It's been so many years since we had a Passover Seder or any traditional meal, and my dad's family was not particularly observant, but I recall my great aunts bringing sponge cake, and a roast goose or duck with a pineapple dressing, and my dad's sister brought her strawberry gelatin and sour cream 'salad' with walnuts - very mid-century

It wouldn't be Passover without matzoh ball soup as far as our family was concerned. It's kind of funny - my Catholic-raised mom made very chewy (IOW, heavy) matzoh balls, and I loved them. I never liked 'light & fluffy' ones 😄

Sweet noodle kugel with raisins always seemed to be on the table at those big family gatherings as well - not a big fan of that.

PM, I believe you! That's not that long ago, though.

In old Jewish recipes from the UK (and some in USA and Canada), however, it really does mean starch. Really.

I've never seen a noodle kugel at Pesach, though there is pasta made from Matzah. I don't know if it'll stand up to being kugelized, though. There are plenty of matzah kugels, though, and if you don't like the sweet noodle one, you'd revile the matzah version. It was Mel Brooks or Carl Reiner, I think, who called knishes ”the Jewish Neutron Bomb”—kills all the people and leaves the buildings standing. I've only had delightful knishes from the bakery, but same idea for the Northern European home cooking for matzah kugel. Coarsely ground matzah swimming in schmaltz and onions—well, swimming in the making but solid as The Wall in serving. Rectilinear. Worse when it's the sweet raisin one.

But there's no getting around nostalgia. When I was little, all the elders were over for a different holiday, and my mother made blintzes (maybe Shavu'ot, when meals are often dairy). A tray burnt on top while being warmed, and my mother set them aside to deal with later. Someone being helpful added some burnt ones to the serving platter. My father's father and uncles started fighting over them! ”Just like Mamma used to make!”

Re matzah balls, there are a number of kinds—a spectrum. Fly away which dissolve in the soup, light and fluffy which dissolve in your mouth, slightly firm which are light and can be slurped but don't come apart when cut with a spoon, quite firm which require chewing (or gumming) but not molars, and dense/hard and seem to be meant to be handballs more than dumplings they're so rubbery. And rocks. But the rocks usually aren't cooked through. The rocks are inedible. The best fluffy ones are that way because of eggs. The falling apart ones, though, are merely waterlogged. Mine are a bit fluffy on the outside, and somewhat firm in the middle. No one brings their raquets to the table. ;)

Making spaetzel is more fun…

I give up, I can do the cooking, with care, but it takes another two days (!) of recovery after a 5-hour cookfest. I called the caterer. :( I'll make the desserts, which I don't usually get to have fun doing. And the charoset, of course.

Guess what? I was looking for the malt powder and found a container of Bob's potato flour in my pantry! Totally forgotten. It must have been for a particular recipe, but I haven't a clue what, I have a bigger container of potato starch. ;)

You could make the matzah ball soup . . . lest your guests be served rocky or waterlogged matzah in dishwater with not even a coke spoon's worth of love.

Matzah ball soup was one of my comfort foods in grad school. From a box, of course. Not quite one of the Holy Trinity - Top Ramen, Tuna Helper, and Mac & Cheese - but a special guest star, like if Brooke Shields appears on Fantasy Island.

LOL! I had been thinking about serving them celery soup with mini matzah balls. :) The caterers make the traditional kind well. I think I once had a matzah ball mix one at a friend's. It's tge cooking of the dumplings that takes skill. I guess it's like pancake mix on the scale of why bother. Until Kodiak Cakes, however. I loved that it was all real food but 1:1 mix to water, so you could make a single pancake. But Grainlady explained how to make that kind of mix for oneself with crystalized eggs. ;) I didn't because I got into baking daily bread, and pancakes were a no bread in the house thing.

Funny about your trinity. By the time I was in grad school, I had a nice apartment with a good kitchen. My comfort food, which was also great for clearing the sinuses, was radiatore pasta with a peppery marsala cheese sauce. So, mac & cheese adjacent, but more pungent Italian and parm rind than cheddar slime. ;)

I think I'm going to make the chocolate meringue cookies and mandelbroit, as planned, No. I should make a honeycake, and maybe some matzah toffee for the chocolate lovers.

. . . As I was writing that, Sacher Torte popped into my head. I thought, “potato starch”. And make the jam from dried apricots. Hotel Sacher publishes a recipe which they say up front isn't the real recipe. Pffft. Joan Nathan (famous and wonderful Jewish cook whose books have great recipes, and at least one has marvelous historical detail) has a Sacher Torte recipe on a Jewish magazine site. Her family have a traditional Sacher Torte recipe from generations past. The recipe says ”flour” and substitute potato starch for Pesach, but elsewhere she says potato starch is better in general. And she says she makes the jam from apricot fruit leather, though her recipe for it just says dried apricots (which I have). Meant to be, don't you think? It covers the chocolate requirement, and the mandelbroit will go beautifully with it.

Thanks, John, for steering my thoughts!