Thanks for all the interesting replies and ideas (so far) - it is both an important and philosophical question.

KW PNW " . The floorplan supports having a live in caretaker or help with bed & bath privacy if that is ever needed. "

It was a horrible eye opener to me, when my 100 year old mom needed a live in caretaker. It is very hard to find someone good, even with an unlimited budget. We went through 3. Terrible people, didn't care about their responsibilites. etc. I eventually put her in a assisted living place, that actually cost less, and at least she got 3 good meals a day, and caregivers that stopped to visit with her. I now wonder too, what to do about my paid for house. It is starting to cost me some money fixing things up and it's too big for me alone. But to find a quality smaller house with no stairs is next to impossible to find. It seems small house equals less quality.

If only we had a crystal ball, huh? How stable are rental prices? What are long term care options in CA? Can you buy good insurance for that? I totally get your desire to maximize your lifestyle budget now, a “can’t take it with you” approach given your circumstances, but having experienced what elder care can cost, I’d be figuring conservatively. Having no kids to worry about leaving it to is a positive in one sense, but the flip-side is not having kids to bail you out.

I don’t see how anyone can give you informed advice without knowing the actual dollars involved, your fixed income, living options, etc. I’d definitely consult a financial adviser. While I’m rent adverse in general, in your case it might make sense.

Totally agree, FOAS. We prefer owning. But that’s us.

I’d never expect my children to assist us financially, and they’d never expect us to assist them financially, but we would to a certain point if it ever came to that.

And neither party would hesitate to ask for advice from the other.

Nicole

I'm 65yo living in a huge house....but...do I want to down size? That is the question. We all age differently. "IF" WE remain in great health...so far that's the case....we're fine for the moment. We're near a big town with medical care 15 minutes away. We have a main level master suite and laundry. We might change our minds in 20 years and live in a ranch ....no stairs, no basement, astroturf backyard, gravel front yard, rental we own. It's an option. Since we own/paid off/our homes, we'd own in retirement. Note: Property tax and insurance is equal to 6 weeks rent.

Where I live definitely own because no one can evict you and then you're looking for another place to live when you can least manage the looking and moving. When you rent you are at the mercy of a landlord and I will never put myself in that position. When the house is too big we will downsize to either a townhouse or large condo but there is no doubt that we will own.

Nicole - Regardless of size, first floor master is so key. Even though I’m younger than you, we’ve already been so thankful that’s what we bought. Between my wife’s cancer surgeries, my bad knees snd impending replacements, and a periodically bad back, it makes life so much easier. For you, add to that already owning a suitable backup property to move into, and it sounds like you’re in great shape!

I think for many, waiting too long is a big issue. As time goes on, it gets more physically and emotionally challenging to move. I see this with my inlaws. They’ve been talking about downsizing since I met them a quarter century ago, and now in their early eighties they both have significant health issues which makes the two story living a challenge. They don’t seem to have the energy to move, so they’ll keep toughing it out and kicking the can. Fortunately they are keeping up with the maintenance. One day, something’s gonna hit the fan.

We built 22 years ago and lucked into a great house design for aging in. It certainly had nothing to do with savvy planning. The main floor has the MB, laundry, kitchen, office, etc. and we spend most of our time there. It’s a pretty open space.

The walkout basement has an entertainment space and bedrooms for company and is accessible from ground level.

We’re still pretty good on stairs but know that could/will change but the design is perfect for aging in.

We prefer to own. We bought our current home 21 years ago with the intention of it being our ”forever home”. We did a fairly extensive remodel, initially, paying attention to features that would help us age in place but have found the need to make additional updates since. A LL might have been reluctant to make these changes had we been a renter - bathroom revisions, new appliances, preventive maintenance, flooring changes, etc.

Our home is a desirable property, so I don’t antipate problems selling it when the time comes to move along. The proceeds from the sale would cover end of life care for us so that’s our long term care policy.

We have a very similar home, @roxsolid. It’s very comfortable and a previous owner spent some time in a wheelchair, making necessary remodels.

The only thing is, the home is very large. If it were just me living here, this place might be overkill for me and selling it to buy a much smaller home might be better.

The dearth of *nice* small homes suitable for seniors drove us to build our own in 2001. However, I didn't think to arrange the 'guest suite' to be suitable for live-in help! (Not that I'm optimistic about finding/retaining such.) It's been great so far. That's changing now that we are 83 and 86, and with my MM-limited life.

The 'forever' home is a myth. Stats say most people our age need help/enter some kind of supportive living. That will be a big adjustment for two 'only children' who have lived all their lives in single family homes -- and who chafed during their vacation codo ownership.

Owning or renting isn't hugely different financially. We 'made' 4% when we sold our longtime home before moving here -- in a sellers market. It's amazing how the taxes, maintenance, etc. add up. However, the decisions are your own, not those of a landlord or management or a committee.

The first consideration should be the way you want to live, at least while your health/age/finances permit that choice. Be sure you understand the pro's and con's of ownership v renting, and SFH v condo v apartment -- and location, location, location!

"I don’t see how anyone can give you informed advice"

I would never expect that. I posted for exactly the discussion I got - people discussing the issues that concern them can give me ideas about what things to consider that I may not have thought about.

" The dearth of *nice* small homes suitable for seniors "

This is so true. I'm in a raised bungalow, so almost everything is on one floor (I do have to go to the basement for HVAC and water equipment), but it's still bigger than I want (1600 sq ft). I couldn't find anything within my geographical search area that was closer to 1200 sq ft but actually nice and reasonably maintained.

chisue - your comment resonates with me. “The dearth of *nice* small homes suitable for seniors drove us to build our own in 2001. “ That’s precisely what we encountered in our home search here. Suitable 1 story homes were mostly circa 70’s, on large property - think 1-5 acres & hadn’t been updated recently. Majority of new builds were 2 story, too big, & on very small lots - 4,000 - 6,000k ft sized which isn’t suitable for a single story with garages because of the large footprint of the single story. Thus the plethora of 2 story new builds. Our current home is in a smallish neighborhood - 58 homes - with larger lots - minimum 9,000 sq ft & semi custom homes not built on spec. All of the lots & streets are flat. We’re just outside city limits so not really rural. Perfect for us when we built in late 2012. Because of the lot sizes, 85% of the homes in my neighborhood are single story. Over 50% of our neighbors are retired or approaching retirement. Families with kids live in the 2 story homes. But, that mix of demographics makes for a quiet neighborhood.

As jrb451 said “Our home is a desirable property, so I don’t antipate problems selling it when the time comes to move along. The proceeds from the sale would cover end of life care for us so that’s our long term care policy” We share that opinion of the value of our home & especially in our local market. Though we do have a bucket of LTC insurance $ coverage to help with care needs (another post totally to explain), we do view our home as an asset if we decide to move. If we chose to rent when we retired, we wouldn’t have this asset.

My long lived parents (both made it to early 90’s) moved back to their small hometown at retirement. They were active & healthy & bought a great 2 story circa 40’s home with master on main. Too bad laundry was in basement. We took notes on things that changed for them over their 30 years in that home. Local medical care was a big deal especially when the need was for a specialist. Since they were a 600+ mile drive away from us on I-90 through many winter snowy mountains & passes & also with limited airport / flight access it was a challenge to get there & help with transportation. Dad developed wet AMD in his 80’s & couldn’t drive at all. Mom wasn’t confident in her driving ability outside of their small town. Dad refused to move. That issue for them (and so by extension for me who was trying to help them while still working & long drive away) educated us to the importance of easy access to medical care in retirement. When dad died, we helped mom sell her home & she moved here to live in a very nice Senior Community & in an independent living apartment. This place also had assisted living & memory care which she could move into if needed. The proceeds of sale of her home completely covered her 4 years of rent while living in that community. She & my dad had managed their resources well & had investment & income stream assets so mom was comfortable financially. That experience of her living situation brought DH & me great enlightenment into the world of Senior living in a retirement community. If that lifestyle is ever in our future, we will move into only the nicest & best rated for amenities and care that is available.

The other lesson I learned from my parents is that it’s very hard to balance saving & planning for one’s retirement years with not leaving too much behind when we go. My dad’s goal was to leave money behind for each of their 5 children. My mom’s goal was to clothing shop with freedom & travel more. They each acheived their goals but IMO they left too much behind. Their outlook for home maintenance was that they’d do it themselves as long as they could - my dad had electrician experience & was skilled at building even though that wasn’t his occupation. DH & I have a different outlook - maybe we can do xyz that’s needed but do we want to? We don’t have children as heirs but we do have a concrete plan for anything we leave behind. But we aren’t saving it for those heirs - we are instead using it to support & enhance our current life.

We are 76 and 78 and the concerns voiced here are ones we worry about too. We will not be renting though unless it is short-term only for some reason. Most of our slightly older friends are going into senior independent living if they are in situations such as the OP’s. One of my brothers and his wife are also considering it as they have no children. DH hates the idea but he can’t even think about living in a close neighborhood again.

Our city is one that has a strong real estate market and it shows no sign of slowing down right now. Good rental property is very hard to find, and we’ve heard of many young people who have had rent increases forced on them and had to move, or the owner decided to sell while the market is hot. There are some nice neighborhoods with smaller homes, but they mostly need renovation. You really have to know the city and area to find what might be suitable. I really would not mind living in a senior independent living home one day, given the ones I have seen. Not ready yet, but if it has to happen, I could deal with it, especially if it would give us the peace of mind to take trips, knowing we didn’t have to worry about security of our home.

" DH hates the idea but he can’t even think about living in a close neighborhood again. "

??? I'm not sure what you mean.

I have looked at some independent living apartments in senior complexes, and I have to say I do like the social aspect of having easy access to some social interaction. I was in the local (indoor) pool earlier in the week - trying to add another day with some exercise to the week - and one woman in her 80s said that if she didn't come to the thrice weekly senior swim time, she wouldn't ever leave the house. (Senior swim time allows lesser mobility folk to not be bowled over by lane swimmers or kids.)

Oh wow. I am super interested in this topic and the answers from our collective wisdom. I am also thinking about renting. I like the idea of the freedom of it.

@Toronto Veterinarian Your comment ”and one woman in her 80s said that if she didn't come to the thrice weekly senior swim time, she wouldn't ever leave the house.” reminded me of another factor we should consider when making our where to live decisions. My bet is we’ve all heard the advice that staying involved socially - social interaction - is a key factor in helping stave off or delay some cognitive decline. A person living alone or even couples who cannot easily get out & about likely suffer in that regard. A person moving in with a child because they cannot live independently, becomes reliant on that child for their social interaction. This is, IMO, a really important consideration in deciding where / how to live in retirement, especially as a person ages. I said earlier that my mom moved into an independent living apartment in a Senior Retirement Community. She often said she would never move in with any of her children as she thought it wasn’t a good thing for anyone given the ability to have another choice. She also recognized that in the retirement community she would have access to transportation for shopping, church, social outings etc. She made friends in her new community as well as took part in many of the activities. Of course I & DH were very involved in her life too but it was wonderful to be able to maintain our home life with ’just us’ & my mom thought it was wonderful to maintain a good level of independence. It was her experience that made me & DH open to moving to a like situation if need be and knowing there are many levels of these communities so they need to be fully explored before moving in.

BTW, my understanding of OutsidePlaying comment about close neighborhood is that her DH doesn’t want apartment style living - too close to the neighbors.

Sorry I didn’t clarify. I meant any neighborhood where the houses are very close together. And of course that would mean a condo or townhouse or apartment. We live on 9 acres and it is on a private road with only 4 homes. We have of course lived in town previously and are grateful we don’t now. We will find it difficult to adjust to returning to that one day.

DH loved his practice and never thought he would retire. However his health forced him to start reducing his hours at age 63 and by 65 he was ready to retire. That was the perfect time for re-assessment. It took a few years to convince him but he finally realized that we needed to downsize - not because of finances but because we just didn't need a 4000 sq ft house with 5 BR, 4 baths, pool and large yard. My father who had lived with us for years had passed way and the 3 kids all had their own places within 3o minutes. Plus we still had our get-away place in upstate PA.

There was no discussion about living in an apartment or condo. Both of us wanted to own our home. We moved to an over 55 community that was only 8 miles from our former home. Certainly not a big change but the mental load of maintaining this home is so much easier - the HOA handles mowing and snow removal - right up to the front door and driveway. Our yard is small and we handle the flower beds or pay our landscaper. We picked a home in the rear of the community so we have woods and a stream behind our house and more privacy. An added bonus is all the wildlife that we love to see - fox, ground hogs, possum, loads of birds, woodpeckers, barn owls, hawks, turtles and deer.

This house is around 2100 sq ft. First floor has the primary BR and Bath, LR, DR, FR, kitchen, breakfast room, laundry plus a second bath and guest room. We do have a second floor with a third bath, third bedroom and an office/TV room which could be utilized by live-in help if need be.

Houses here often sell by word of mouth before going on the market. We're in a good area, the HOA rules and monthly dues are reasonable. We have a clubhouse with loads of activities, a pool, tennis court and bocce court. It's not a large neighborhood and I love it here. It took DH a while to accept the change but he readily admits that it was the best choice for us.

There are a few homeowners who rent out their homes here and the renters I know feel like they have the best of both worlds. They're in a real neighborhood, it's relatively quiet, not in a rental where people come and go frequently and everyone is over 55 - no kids under 18. Granted the landlord can raise the rent or decide not to renew their contract.

" There was no discussion about living in an apartment or condo. Both of us wanted to own our home. "

You should realize that you essentially do own a condo now - but it's a condo house instead of a condo apartment. When you've got an HOA that manages the shared community property and has rules about how you can use your property, that's equivalent to what a condo board does.

Just to be clear; owning a condo is owning your own home.

A condo is a hybrid, right? Yes there's no lease like renting and you purchase and sell it, but you are owning the interior, so you can paint whatever color, hang whatever art, etc. There is still the exterior and rules and regulations which you don't control but are controlled by a board. My friend is unable to have a bird feeder outside her condo as it is against the rules...not so with a house you own, which you can paint purple if you like.

TV - yes I understand that but in this area condo usually refers to a multi-family building.

Annie - How sad that your friend can't even have a bird feeder. We checked the regulations carefully before purchasing our home and found the rules very reasonable. This was a huge change for us and DH wasn't thrilled about leaving our family home. The rules primarily concern appearances with an annual inspection to verify that the exterior of the house is well maintained and it serves a double purpose in that our neighborhood is very desirable - and we have 5 bird feeders off our patio.

If one does go with a condo or any HOA-managed home for that matter, it is always best to thoroughly review the bylaws, covenants, house rules and any agreements, including the history of dues, special assessments, etc and how the HOA is governed. You can be responsible for assessments based on how healthy the HOA treasury is maintained. For example, most condo buildings (from the interior walls out) are owned by the association and the HOA must maintain insurance on the buildings. As we all know, insurance rates have gone up significantly. Many HOAs have been forced to raise dues or make special assessments due to this increase. This is just one example. Others are roofs, trash collections, outdoor maintenance including the pool.

Our lake condo does allow bird feeders as long as they don’t impede the lawn maintenance, but there are strict rules about grills and other items on patios and porches.

Maire cate, your community sounds ideal. I wish there was a similar community here but sadly there are none that meet the criteria. One or two come close but they are more like smaller patio homes and not restricted by age afaik.

Outside - I think we really did luck out. Our community is 25 years old and when initially built it was one of the only over 55s in this area. What is unusual though is that the townhouses are responsible for their own exteriors (roof, siding, driveway repair etc.) which helps keep the HOA fees down. There are 220 homes and 24 townhouses and for us our location is ideal. My kids even went to school with the grand children of the farmer who owned the land - he sold because none of his children wanted to farm - and this was more profitable.

Now there are many more over 55 communities popping up all over and most of them are much larger developments. Every now and then DH moans about the small lots but then we escape to our place in the mountains where we don't see anyone.

TV- there are numerous rent vs. buy calculators. I wonder if any would be helpful.

There is a condo building in the city near me that was found to have major structural defects and deemed unsafe for residents to stay in. Residents were ordered to vacate. Many still have mortgages to pay, and the homes cannot be sold. It is in the courts right now. The building has been condemned and is sitting empty. If the people living there had been renting they could have just moved on.

eta update

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/castledowns-pointe-edmonton-condo-evacuation-1.7177727

Condo board or HOA board, although you are relieved of making decisions...you are also dependent on the commitment, interest and abilitiy of volunteer board members. A good board is priceless.

We lived with the ups and downs of a condo board over the twenty years we owned on Maui. The board went from a few early owners who were making it up as they went along -- to better years where board members were .mostly retired business people. It's a serious responsibility to maintain and ensure the financial future of 320 units on 20 acres. I would be concerned about the ability of very small base operations to consistently field responsible boards. The work is volunteer -- and mostly unsupervised -- and vital.

Another retirement solution: Former neighbors sold their SFH and made a Florida condo their winter (and legal) home -- for reasons "Taxes" and "Golf". They also bought into a continuing care facility here, not to lose ties with family and longtime friends, and to have medical care security. (And here I am, unwilling to face travel to a warmer clime in winter, much less maintain two abodes!)

Homeowners associations are nothing more than a legal structure used to administer and manage property owned in common. I don't think Florida would ever be accused of being a state with a history of foot-forward, enlightened laws and government but the association and construction problems surfacing there since the beachside condo tower collapsed shouldn't necessarily be expected elsewhere.

Our home is in a neighborhood of custom-built houses but with an association because roads, drainage systems, common facilities, access control, etc. are "private" (undivided ownership interests held in common by property owners within the boundaries). The original "developer" involved only bought land, built roads and infrastructure, and then sold building sites.

In California, association governing laws have become more comprehensive over the years. Today, associations are required to accumulate on a timely basis, from assessments, the funds with detailed specificity required to repair or replace (as the case may be) physical assets that have finite useful lives. Our association hires experts to make and review assessments every few years for each asset type to recalibrate the needed timing and amounts of savings.

The effectiveness and presence or absence of controversy with HOAs depends on the personalities involved. Both of my properties have associations, for similar reasons, and I would conclude that minority views in an HOA setting are not only protected but can dominate operations. For good and for bad. In one location, the minority is the group who give of themselves to be on the board and make decisions for the majority. (I once served two terms myself). Other than when a jack pass now and then decides to raise a stink over something minor (for which they usually lose), operations are effective, the tone is chill, and everyone generally likes what's done.

At the other location, a minority of original owners (the community is about 25 years old) thinks monthly dues should remain $11.25 (an exaggeration for impact) when the present cost is a few hundred. Aged infrastructure needs replacing, postponed maintenance is past due, and so it is. This minority rules through obstruction. They make sure that quorums are difficult when important votes are taken. They complain about this, that and the other thing. Capable board members have decided to not stand for reelection because the hassle of dealing with the grumblers spoils the atmosphere for the good, unselfish work they want to do. But the majority perseveres and do good for everyone.

Because of my experiences, I'm a fan of homeowners associations.

Oh, and back to the topic, I happily left behind, in my 20s, the unpleasant minuses of apartment living. Unless and until I become physically unable to do so, I will remain in detached housing with nothing but air and blue skies on the other side of my walls. If my parents' waning years are any indication, both were able to continue living in their home until the end came.

I'm in the throes of evaluating these issues myself. The decisions are huge and not easy to make. Looking at the financial options is critical. Here's something I've considered.

If you're fortunate to have a large amount of equity in your home, you can sell the house, invest the proceeds, and use those funds to pay rent on a smaller place for a long, long time without touching your retirement funds. No more home maintenace costs, which is a big annual savings. Of course, rents rise over time, but so do property taxes, homeowners insurance and maintenance costs.

It's not a good option for everyone but I think it's something to throw in the mix when deciding on next steps. Definitely talk these decisions through with a financial advisor.

" including the history of dues, special assessments, etc and how the HOA is governed. "

Yes, and also the management of the finances of the HOA or Condo board......There should be a savings fund of some sort for long term maintenance (eg roof replacement) and special repairs; in Ontario, condo corporations are required to have a reserve fund of a certain level.

Take the case of someone considering a property purchase where the property owned in common is in ONE building, a series of buildings with multiple dwellings inside, or situated in some other setting where a problem with property owned in common could be both disastrous and expensive. In my opinion, the likelihood of an outsider gaining a reasonable advance understanding of an association's prudence and financial stability without engaging experts to conduct some degree of due diligence, is low.

Some insights may arise from a conversation with a real estate attorney, to understand what is required to be done under local law. Whether a particular association has followed the law and has been careful in its operations (whether directed by legal requirements or by prudence) may be difficult to know, even by association members.

No better example of this than the tragedy in Florida - leaving aside what was or wasn't done with financial reserves, I remember reading that many condo owners had not been informed timely that experts had observed and advised the board some years earlier of numerous telltale signs of structural problems that needed to be addressed with some urgency. But weren't.

I remember hearing what Elmer said about the FL condo disasters & the condo owners not being informed of the structural problems. I don’t know about any local legislated oversight for condo management - board rules, reserves management etc. I do think I know that there are companies who are in the business of doing the management tasks for condo & HOA boards & I don’t know of any oversight in place to ensure they’re following all the rules. I’d be more willing to buy a home in a neighborhood with an HOA than to buy a condo with their ”HOA” that has a higher level of responsibility with the structural care needed. In either case though I’d want a full review of the board & financial / reserves situations by a professional with specific knowledge as a condition of my offer to buy. I seem to be saying the same thing Elmer said - so I agree that getting an expert to review is critcally important no matter what state / country a person lives in.

I mentioned before about condo living and worries about yapping dogs next door or smokers. My son lives in a condo with shared walls and the neighbor is a smoker. The stench is noticeable in my son's unit (not sure why or how it travels) and it is also worrisome that there could be an increased fire risk - careless smokers and all that.

We downsized to a condo about 9 years ago. The house was just too expensive to run on Social Security and pension income. Where we are now, if something happened to one of us, the other could live here without scrimping. I have often thought that it would be easier on the kids if we rented, because when we died they would not have to take care of selling, just emptying an apartment. But in our area, you need to show that you have 40 times the rent as income. So if the rent was $3000 (about normal for a one-bed), you would have to have $120,000 per year, not a small sum. And then, I cannot imagine what would happen to just one of us going forward. Not an easy thought.

This is a real dilemma. My mother was widowed at age 68 but stayed on her own in the brick home they had built until she was 90 and I moved her near me to an assisted living place. We live in virtually a big white elephant. It's four floors counting a large attic , basement and ten large rooms on 1/2 acre with two ponds. There is no other home like it anywhere because a blacksmith and his brother a wagonmaker built it in 1840 from trees on the six acres they owned. So a one of a kind where I've lived for 41 years and they will have to drag me out of here. It's on the historic register. I live on a corner in a small town with only one neighbor and that house has been vacant for five years. But well kept. I am literally 1/2 mile to Traders and Aldi, less than one mile to the dentist, doctor, eye doctor, with four hospitals no more than two or three miles away. We have rented once in our lives. We married right out of college in our early 20s , bought our first house a year later, and never rented and again, and definitely don't want to now. Kids live one and three miles away and we have a handyman guy who does things husband can't. We have the money to hire people to help but help isn't the same as my mother had. It's hard to find reputable people. I am not antisocial but the thought of living in a condo sharing a wall with other people, hoping they don't smoke or have barking dogs is frightening. And don't get me going on HOAs that I've heard horror stories about. Much of my outdoor stuff would be restricted and I have nothing but tasteful urns and birdhouses, feeders, and three pergolas.

DH and I love where we live, but he's looking to retire in the next couple years and we still have a mortgage. I brought up recently that I think we should considering cashing out and buying a smaller home in an area of the state that is still convenient to necessary amenities (medical facility, shopping) yet much less expensive to live in. We'd make a nice chunk of change if we sold now, so this is do-able even though I still have about a decade of work years ahead of me -- I have a long commute now, an hour in one direction is the same as an hour in another direction {shrug}.

The fact that he LOVES this house and property coupled with the fact he's a plopper makes this a steep uphill battle. I'm going to keep putting the bug in his ear in hopes that somewhere the idea stews in the back of his mind -- he has mentioned concerns about having a mortgage in retirement multiple times, so my tactic just might work. If we do stay here, though, I'm in a single-story home about 2 miles outside of town, which has everything we need other than a medical facility, but there is an urgent care close by and a local hospital about 20 minutes away should that be needed. As I make improvements to the house, I'm doing so with aging-in-place in mind as best I can, although there are some things I can't change (like mechanicals in the basement).

I'd much rather own than rent. Renting just seems too unstable, especially in the current economic climate, regarding no control over changes in rent and potential of losing the lease for reasons outside of one's control. I wouldn't be against owning a place in a senior community. Both DH and I love having acreage and along with that privacy and peace and quiet, but the reality is we may not be able to keep up with things when we're elderly so we might have to make compromises -- only time will tell.

porkchop - The good thing IMO is that you are thinking about it now with @ 10 years before your retirement. When talking about retirement with our tax person & our investsments manager before we retired, they both said we were well ahead of average in our thinking & planning. They said then that too many leave doing that until too late. Another thought - with your DH retiring a handful of years before you, both of you might change your thoughts about best plans for yourselves. Your DH will / should have more time to take care of things that need doing on your property too.

The KT has discussed the advantage/disadvantage of mortgages before. It gives some people some feeling of security to 'burn the mortgage'. However, IDK of any financial benefit to doing so, provided you're paying less interest on it than you're making with the money not tied up in your home. The mortgage is also a hedge against a prolonged down RE market. Cash is always king.

What Elmer said about the Florida condos has really given me pause.

" the fact he's a plopper "

I love this term!

Here's a video I came across, concerning Florida and condos.

I'm not sure whether some of these situations are caused by ignorance, stupidity, maybe both or something else.

I know as a homeowner, I look around the house inside and out periodically, looking for anything that may have changed or need attention. I pay attention when I hear a sound, is it a normal sound or something new? I discovered a broken pipe under the house that was spraying water at a furious rate when a toilet seemed to keep running after being flushed. I listen for the water to stop when I flush toilets, before walking away. Do you? You should.

Whether you're in a condo, a house, or a tent in the backyard, learn your surroundings and be attentive to what "normal" looks like and what "normal" sounds like. Be alert for changes.

In the case of the property in the video, an 80 year old building just adjacent to water (probably built on sand) and on what had to have been a high water table level should have had regular structural checks and inspections going back decades ago. And apparently never did. Now it has to be torn down. Duh.

Nicole

I believe most people don't want a landlord telling them to, per the rental contract:

Water & fertilize the lawn, cut small tree branches & bushes back,

Don't leave food on the counter or you'll attract bugs(Advise, but not enforce)

You can't stack furniture to the ceiling, it's a fire hazard

The house smells like cat pee. You need to fix the problem or get rid of your pets

There's a 2 pet limit

No caged or aquariumed pets

No feeding birds or stray cats, city ordinance is enforced

Put new batteries in the smoke detector, it's required to keep them up active

A house inspection every 3 months with photos

And many other things people tend to do that they don't want to have monitored. This alone is a good reason NOT to rent. You want to keep your freedom as you age.

" I believe most people don't want a landlord telling them to, per the rental contract: "

Some (many?) of those things can also be required by HOAs or condo boards, so it's not just about renting vs. owning. It can also be things like what colour you can paint your house/fence/garage door, what type and colour of window coverings you must have, or when the house or any linked security systems must be inspected.

I retired last year and my wife will retire this year. We are big gardeners and have a large garden now. I'm 68 and have already slowed down and realized some time ago that at some point we'll have to move. We are OK with renting and think the financial side is about even when you consider taxes, insurance, house maint. and appliance replacement. Some really good discussion about condo/apt living. No way will we want to live near smokers. Our plan is to live here as long as we can physically take care of the property. Planning/hoping for 10 years, but realize adjustments might be needed. We do have a mortgage, but one good thing is the mortgage is more stable than rent, and much less expensive. We couldn't rent a house as nice as this for the same amount, and that amount is what's in the budget.

Whether to rent or buy wasn't as difficult a decision for me as figuring out health insurance. Between Medicare Advantage and medicare+Medigap or some private Ins. I went with Medicare+Medigap. I also have separate Dental, Vision and Prescription plans. Total monthly premiums is $459. Not sure this thread is the best place to talk details and if there is another thread that is about health insurance I'll take it there.

Really great discussion. I don't often sit at the KT, but have seen several interesting threads and think I'll stop by more often.

SB

Senior Balloon -- Hey! Welcome to the Table. Pull up a chair/computer.

FWIW, DH and I were pretty much fine/fine up to 80. When you check demographics, look at *yours*, not Joe Average's. My DH and I possess good genes -- and have had every health and social advantage from birth. There are also stats for those who've already made it to X years. For instance, seeing how little time most of 'our ilk' require nursing care -- 3 months at the end of life -- argued for self-insuring.

We chat about general health insurance here regularly. The American 'system' is ridiculous, and here you'll find sympathy and the experiences of others.

The KT is proof that The Wisdom of Crowds exists in a benign form.

It's not just the older buildings in Florida that have been built on unstable ground. The Porsche Design Tower which is an ultra luxury condo and only opened in 2012 has the same problem. The University of Miami reported that it may have sunk as much as 3" between 2016 and 2023.

Additionally 70% of other structures on Sunny Isles Beaches in Miami-Dade are 'expecting subsidence."

There are 35 plus condos/residences/hotels that were built in Miami-Dade with sinking problems - they are built on limestone/sand which is porous and changes due to water and environment. It has been confirmed that construction tends to cause harm to the foundation as well. I love the ocean but would never live oceanfront.

This sinking problem of the FL building on limestone /sand reminds me of the “Great Alaska Earthquake” in 1964. Most of the damage was in Anchorage & surrounding areas - my family lived in SE AK - Ketchikan then & though I was really young I do remember it. It was a 9.2 on the scale & created a 220’ Tsunami. Anchorage lost many buildings that just collapsed from soil compaction during the quake. Death toll was only 131 or so but that’s because of low population. They were built on fill over some tidal flats. Sounds as stupid as how the FL buildings have been built.

"soil compaction"

I think it's maybe soil liquifaction?

Elmer - you are correct! I couldn’t remember the term & it didn’t come up in the quick search I did to refresh my memory of that quake. It was a big deal that liquifaction thing. Not many had heard of it but there was much discussion locally about it & some great demos set up that clearly showed what had happened.

" Not many had heard of it "

Maybe it's better known down here?

When liquefaction happens from the shaking, the water/dirt mix in the ground becomes unstable, turns to what is described as not unlike the consistency of jello, and loses its rigidity and strength to support weight.

Many areas of land around SF Bay are of course adjacent to the shoreline, including in SF city itself. Many of these areas are the result of landfill efforts to gain more square feet of land. Some of this dates back to the 19th century.

Unfortunately, ground engineering and landfill techniques were unknown, and little more was done at the time than to pour in dirt, rocks, and whatever other debris was at hand into the near shore and keep adding material until it was high enough to stay dry.

Landfill areas are very prone to liquefaction from earthquakes at much lower quake intensities, and in such instances buildings where liquefaction happens can collapse when nearby buildings sited on terra firma are undamaged.

A non-trivial portion of the damage from the Loma Prieta earthquake happened 50 miles or more as the crow flies away from the epicenter. Many structures in between the two points but built on solid ground had little or no damage. Much farther north, where structures were built on landfill and with inadequate foundations not built down to bedrock, there were many instances of significant damage.