" Geoffrey (often called ’Goff’ by Americans unfamiliar with the English spelling "

At a time when we were very short of staff and were transferring people in from other offices around the country, a guy who I can best describe as a "Hick from Dakota" transferred in from one of our Midwest offices.

He wanted the transfer to be successful, as did we. He worked hard and as an example did more advance prep for meetings than his peers did. He went through files in advance. He did these things quietly; I think wanting people to be more impressed with his successful outcomes rather than to be impressed with the efforts he made to prepare.

Anyway, we had a meeting to introduce him to one of my clients he'd be working with. Call him Geoff Jones, not his real name. A fellow originally from an area outside London.

The new guy and I drove to the client's office, were cleared in and walked to the prearranged conference room and entered. It was now occupied by the three of us. The new guy (to his credit) took the initiative to walk up to Mr Jones to introduce himself. "Hello Gee-off, my name is Bill Anderson. Very nice to meet you".

Much as he tried, this guy never fit in. As some comedian once said, he was a pair of brown shoes at a black tie affair. After about 5 years, he left us and moved back to the upper Midwest. Never to be seen or heard from again.

I remember another story about the Hick from Dakota.

I don't remember what the occasion was but a bunch of us - maybe 10 - left work a bit early to enjoy a cocktail hour at the bar in the building next door. We were there a few hours, long enough to feel the effect.

Our building had 6 elevators. After hours, 5 went no lower than the lobby level and one ran between the lobby and basement parking levels only. That was so people entering the building from parking would have to check in with the guard in the lobby. When someone approached from street level, the guard had to get up to unlock the door.

Just to be polite to the guard, we walked down the driveway to the first parking level so as to not make the guard get up to let us in the locked door. As we're walking to the elevator lobby, The Hick says "Does anyone want to bet which elevator will come for us" (Psst, after hours, it was always the same one on parking level duty).

I said - nah, it's a one out of 6 chance.

Hick says ' Do you want to bet $5 which one it will be?

I said - No XXX, I know which one it will be.

Hick says - You're that confident? Okay, I'll let you make the choice. $20 on the bet if you're sure.

(everybody is giggling),

I said "XXX, no bet. I know which one it will be"

Hick - Great. Let's make it $40. (More loud laughing)

Me - I don't want to bet.

Hick - I thought you were so confident!.

Me - Okay fine, I pick that one (I went with the one it always was after hours. People are starting to squeal)

Elevator comes, it's the one I said

Hick says - I don't believe it, what a lucky bet. Here's $40. People are laughing out loud.

Me - Keep your money.

Hick - No, a bet's a bet.

I gave him back the $40 the next day and explained why.

@Elmer J Fudd - Apologies to the person from one of the Dakotas but I am laughing at both of your stories. My hope is that those West Coast experiences paid off when that person returned to his likely beloved home state.

Dear lord.

@Patriciae — ? I don’t understand your reaction to the stories or maybe to my response? We all - or, those of us of who are a ’mature’ age at least - do have stories from our working years that break all kinds of rules for today’s work environments. Though we do understand the need for and celebrate the changes that have happened to create a more inclusive working environment for many today, our past experiences are what they are. Some of the stories about those experiences are humorous. Relax!

True to form. what a sense of humor. textbook pathology.

Elmer, when the dakotan asked,’who wants to bet…”, why didnt you explain that only one particular elevator operated after hours.? granted, you would have had to forego the giggles, squeals and laughing out loud at this man?

you are telling us gardenwebbers this story bc you think this is funny? and first, of course, this guys mispronunciation of geoff?

i rest my case.

I shortened the story. While we were nursing a beer or two each to enjoy the relaxing setting, he was putting away Bourbon or some other hard stuff one after the other. Except for him, the rest of us were mostly fine and clear thinking. Only he was having trouble walking when we left.. I did tell him it was always the same one after hours and he thought I was setting him up. So I said, I know which it will be. Then as described.

The guy was immature, drank too much too often, and rejected constructive and positive suggestions to improve his performance. We kept trying to help him long after he seemed to give up. I think he'd quit mentally about a year before he actually resigned. We figured he took his time looking for then finding something he wanted to do, where he wanted to do it.

The only case you have to rest is your bad attitude case. I've told this story many times, it was most recently talked about at a retirement party a few months ago attended by several others like me who'd been there. Hysterical laughter for the umpteenth time.

Good for the Dakotan! He paid his bill (the wager), he was honest, and he sounded kind for joining your group in a drink. He’s probably done well in life. Definitely a good sport.

Hysterical laughter for the umpteenth time.

Sounds like your retirement parties are a real hoot.

I don't expect anyone to garner any understanding of this guy's personality problems and professional deficiencies from the retelling of a short and humorous episode, when his conduct was more akin to what would be expected of a village idiot. Odd of you to think you got any understanding of him. Who has the poor judgement to get drunk and out of control at a simple cocktail hour stress relief session with people of higher levels in their work organization? That alone was part of what was so funny.

I doubt he had a particularly successful career after leaving us because his performance with us didn't suggest he had enough of the right personality traits or professional skills to do the kind of work he wanted to do, well.

Retirement dinners are a blast. The nature and circumstances of our work led each of us to meet and have to deal with unique, bizarre, unexpected, unreasonable, difficult and seemingly impossible people and problems. Many of which had humorous twists and turns along the way. Not always laughs at the time but fun after the fact. Most different from one to the next.

"The nature and circumstances of our work led each of us to meet and have to deal with unique, bizarre, unexpected, unreasonable, difficult and seemingly impossible people and problems."

Obviously.

You said he was a hick, which I take to mean uneducated or unsophisticated. You’ve told us about your business savviness, your education and how very cosmopolitan you are. You said the group you were out drinking with were at a higher level in the organization than this fellow. He was drunk, you and the others weren’t.

I look at that as punching down.

In my opinion that is a sad situation. Especially with a coworker.

Surely, you have better things to laugh about at your retirement parties.

edited for spelling mistake.

When my nieces lived with me I noticed by their school work grammar or pronunciation was lacking or even taught. Grammar mistakes were allowed on their homework and not corrected, the pronunciation of some words were said wrong and when I asked them about it they said that is how their teacher said the word. I even called the school to ask why grammar mistakes were allowed in their schoolwork. I remember when I was in Grade School grammar seemed to be the most important subject. I think it is just laziness not pronouncing all the syllables in a word. My nieces are in their 30s now and I notice that they along with others the same age don't pronounce the word button correctly, they seem to say bhuh un, no t sound used, so I imagine they would pronounce Milton the same way.

roxsol thanks for the Jolly Roger. Now who shall we get to walk the plank?

Aye, we must make th' picaroon pay!

roxsol, knock yourself out. I don't care what you think and I tire of your games.

"the term describes patterns of particular word choices and sounds that can be traced to specific areas where such usages are common." I'm afraid that is too simplistic a definition.

Accents are not solely related to geography. They can also relate to social class and even to an individual's speech characteristics. I stand by the assertion that everyone has at least one accent and often more. I do and you do too.

But then, on second thoughts, maybe the academics who delivered the lectures on my university linguistics degree were fooling me and actually knew nothing about the subject at all.

" They can also relate to social class and even to an individual's speech characteristics. "

Yes, nowhere more the case than in your country. Social class identity independent of a person's socioeconomic status seems to often pass from generation to generation where you are. I think much less so here.

The conversation went in the accent direction with respect to geography in the US. I don't speak like many plumbers, as an example, but neither did the plumber who fixed a leaking faucet at my house last week.

I remember the wife of an English couple we've been close to since we lived in Europe telling the story over dinner one night of when she was to meet her boyfriend's (now husband's) parents. The male of the pair was a solicitor, as was his father, and he was from an upper middle class family. The woman's father was a green grocer and she considered herself to be working class. Though, she was a degreed teacher.

She worried about what she should wear. Should she call his parents Sir and Ma'am? Stand and sit erect? Any other conventions for behavior? She was nervous about it.

She was somewhat calmed but skeptical when told "Hey, this is my Mum and Dad. Just be yourself".

She looks back on the experience with humor (humour ,-) ). because it was such an unknown thing to experience.

Was this in the 19th century?

1970s. She is from the Midlands, he from Richmond.

In a modern context, the internet is really good at encouraging our divisive interests.

Controversy keeps the participants engaged, filling the pockets of the owners of the platforms.

Putting our social cohesion, and with it our democracy, at risk, it may well turn out to be.

ole joyful (most of the time)

Give a conversational narcissist an audience and the gaslighting will never end until they are ignored........and 6 days later.......

This is code switching: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8mqJ_fuxJ7/?=

It was interesting to hear it called masking.

I totally understand why someone does this. My Grannie has her everyday accent and her preacher come to dinner accent. It was just a normal thing with grownups. I soaked up accents like a sponge and tended to give back what I got but I can always do Nicely Raised Southern Belle if I have to no matter what, right off the cuff.

" This is code switching: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8mqJ_fuxJ7/?= "

People actually brag about being phonies? That's a different world than I live in, happily.

Elmer, in your company what’s the highest a black person has gotten without code switching?

I doubt there's any way for anyone (other than a person themself) to answer that question.

Elmer, in your company what’s the highest a black person has gotten without code switching?

Exactly. It's not being phony, it's how many people have to make their way in the world, since the accent they grew up speaking doesn't conform to what some people, especially in the corporate world or academia, think of as intelligent or competent.

The last company I worked at was extremely diverse, and for the most part people spoke as they spoke. I’ll admit it was a little startling at first, but a good life lesson that people don’t need to whiten their accents to be smart.

In other job experiences code switching was more present, and it became evident as we'd get more familiar and comfortable with each other. Of course if a person feels the need to constantly be "on" around you, you'd not experience it.

Though I haven't looked, I'd imagine there's discussion about whether this is "ok" or not, good for self esteem, self worth, mental health, etc. But some seem quite comfortable switching publicly. The Obamas come to mind.

If you speak Lithuanian at home are you going to speak it at work where no one speaks Lithuanian? Isn't it all about communicating? When on the one hand you sneer at the way some people speak do you then get to call them phonies for tempering that speech pattern? These are valid questions I think.

food, the population of my state has more than tripled during my lifetime. It isn't because of a tendency to have large families. Arriving folks came from domestic as well as foreign locations. The domestic ones had accents from sea to shining sea and from across the fruited plains. And those from some regions, no accent at all.

Extreme diversity and the resulting accent smorgasbord have been a constant here, and most everywhere, in my lifetime. Working in Silicon Valley, the client companies as well as within my firm, accents of any and all kinds are more the rule than an exception. SoCal is and has always been the same too. What happened at these companies or at my firm's offices in other states, besides visiting, I can't say.

I'll speculate that what seems to me a bizarre practice is a regional one. When there's no "establishment majority" to conform to and acceptance of all comers, there's no need.

Working in Silicon Valley, the client companies as well as within my firm, accents of any and all kinds are more the rule than an exception.

And despite living, working, and traveling among people of such varied backgrounds, the dropping the T from Milton prompted so much thought that you started a thread about it, even going so far as to speculate it might be laziness?

" the dropping the T from Milton prompted so much thought "

That's your assumption. It's an incorrect one. It was something I noticed, nothing more. I said above I'd heard it before. I thought it could seed a conversation.

Take yourself back to when most people read a daily newspaper. Maybe you did, maybe not. Assume hypothetically you did. Your regular paper has a columnist who writes 3 articles per week. S/he has problems avoiding errors of spelling, grammar, and word choice. The articles seem to have been written by a young child or a person with less education than the job would be expected to require. Negative gravitas results perhaps, hard to take such sloppily written opinions seriously.

Print journalists have copy editors and style guides to follow. I mentioned above how media in audio form also once had pronunciation standards, citing the BBC. as an example.

Most readers of that columnist would note that the words and grammar needed polishing to meet whatever was an expectation of quality.

In that very same way, I simply noted that the person had what boils down to poor elocution or pronunciation habits that could be improved. That's all.

You're either bored today and trying to be belligerent or you're having trouble with something simple.

You sure weren't all that accepting of the "hick" from the Dakotas.

And then there is French. Why is eliding letters ok for them.

Spend your day pondering what doesn't need further explanation or pondering. Bye bye.

I think your last comment was about ending letters not pronounced in French. Yes, usually true. Here's more to be concerned about:

Ignored last letters in English:

Plumb

Thumb

Lamb

Comb

Climb, and more and more

Or, letters in other places not pronounced:

Pneumonia (The P is pronounced in the French word for the same condition)

Pneumatic - same

Knot

Knockwurst (The first letter is pronounced in German, so you get kenock vurst.

There's also a seaside town in Flanders - Knokke-Heist, said as ke-nockeh heist

And on and on

I know but the logic of it eludes me. You make a point of two different people eliding a T in a word and are broken up about it but cheerfully listen to French people toss letters out the window wholesale all the time with no fuss what so ever. Those letters were originally pronounced at some point or why would they be there?

EtA the previous post from Elmer is not what I was responding to as it was not there when I posted. I am not of course talking about B at the end of words.

In that very same way, I simply noted that the person had what boils down to poor elocution or pronunciation habits that could be improved. That's all.

“In that same way.” You’re likening a difference in pronunciation to grammatical and spelling errors? Why, because the pronunciation didn’t meet YOUR standards? True colors right there.

By the way, I have two middle names that have a T in the middle similar to Milton. In German, I pronounce the T's distinctly. In English they get dropped for that quasi glutal stop. It would stand out, not as odd but as unexpected, to hear someone pronounce them with hard T's.

The guy probably glanced at the teleprompter and thought it said Millon. Most people of younger generations may have never heard the name Milton, or Millon, so neither would be familiar. If he only knew how it blew someone's circuits...

" and are broken up about it "

My goodness, no no no. You and your lost friend are off the road into the weeds, it was a simple observation and nothing more. Your stubbornness would be something to be broken up about but I'm not, because you're clinging tightly to it.

Revert to prior suggestion.

Would your middle name be Quatch by any chance?

Would your middle name be Quatch by any chance?

No, and it’s not Quatsch, either.

Haha, spear me for for losing a step on my spelling from so many decades ago. Your comment was Quatsch all the same.

Edit to add, another example to bewilder the contingent who think that English phonetics and spelling pronunciation practices should be followed in other languages.

Taking off the letters following T, these adherents would expect that in German the sound of Quat would be the same as squat with the S removed. Except Qu is pronounced as if kv, (as our friend Quatsch knows). So the word sounds like kvatch, not quatch. Selbsverstaendlich.

Whatever. You can accuse me of being bored or posting Quatsch, but it doesn’t explain away why your comments are ”misinterpreted” day after day, month after month, year after year. I assume decade after decade, but I haven’t been posting on KT long enough to know. If you really wanted people to respect your opinions and not think of you as a pompous donkey, you’d reflect on your tone. But that would take self-awareness so I don’t see that happening in this lifetime.

Well piffle. I am fully aware that letters are not pronounced the same in other languages nor are letter combinations. I am more aware than you might think about how things are pronounced in German for instance. Still I did ask a few questions around the house and looked it up on the internet for extra input just in case and lo the consensus is that French would have been pronounced with all those extra letters as some point in the past and of course as you say how the letters are pronounced would be different but they would be pronounced except apparently the French got lazy. Or perhaps letter hungry since often letters are swallowed in speech. There is a name for that but I forget.

Anyway people study these things and apparently it is part of speaking quickly making it more difficult to enunciate each sound. Oddly enough while people generally think southern speech is slow it is actually fast. No one is going to believe me on this one.

food, more Quatsch from you. Enjoy your evening.

Can you label some person's input on this forum as nonsense? What has happened here?