"I'm considering a Rambo run up near Mt. St.Helens to plant them among the Nobles. I've often pondered what the're long term outcome would be in that area" The practical outcome of course is that they'd all get buried, burnt, etc., the next time Mt. St. Helens erupts again ;-) Resin

I don't think that it's a hybrid, I bought a couple of dozen of seedlings of this species about 10 years ago. In the same time I also bought seedlings of other Abies species like Abies homolepis and Abies holophylla. I know that this nursery man derives seeds straight from the countries were these species will live. Abies pindrow is from the western Himalaya and lives not in the same enviroment with Abies sibirica so a natural cross between these seems not to be possible. Do you think that Abies sibirica doesn't grow well in the Dutch climat? I red that Abies sibirica grows very well in a moisty soil, the soil in my Pinutum is moist all year round. I also have several witches'brooms of this species which are also doing very well. These witches'brooms derives from Siberia...

For what its worth, there's a thriving Christmas Tree industry in Tennessee, and some of the preferred species are listed below. Steve, if you go to the following link and search for a tree farm near you, it will show you a map of the growers and the trees they grow. If they can do it, you can do it!! http://www.tennesseechristmastrees.org/index.html Regards, K4 ARIZONA CYPRESS (Cupressus arizonica) Blue Ice The Blue Ice variety of the Arizona Cypress is a unusual blue/gray in color and is an extremely fast grower, often reaching a saleable size 6-7 foot tree within 3-4 years. Becoming very popular at southern Christmas tree farms both for Christmas and for use as a landscape specimen. Carolina Sapphire Carolina Sapphires best characteristics include fast growth, a beautiful blue color and an excellent aroma. Many southern farms are presently planting limited quantities of this beautiful tree. CANAAN FIR (Abies intermedia) Canaan (pronounced "Ka-naan", with emphasis on the last syllable) is a relative newcomer to the Christmas tree market. It has many similarities to both Fraser and balsam firs in growth and appearance. It has good to excellent needle retention and makes a beautiful Christmas tree in the home. A close relative to the 'Bracted Balsam' it displays some characteristics of both it and the Fraser Fir. While it can withstand somewhat higher temperatures than the Fraser, it does prefer a cooler soil temperature than some southern locations. For those areas which are marginal for growth of the Fraser Fir, the Canaan is a worthwhile substitute for Christmas tree farms. COLORADO BLUE SPRUCE (Picea pungens) Colorado blue spruce, or blue spruce, is an attractive tree often used for Christmas trees. Needles are 1-1 1/2 inches long on lower branches but somewhat shorter on upper branches. They are 4-sided and have a very sharp point on the end. Needles are generally dull bluish-gray to silvery blue and emit a resinous odor when crushed. Some trees have a more distinct bluish-white or silvery-white foliage year round. These are often referred to as 'shiners'. Blue spruce is finding increasing popularity as a Christmas tree as a result of its symmetrical form and attractive blue foliage. The species has an excellent natural shape and requires little shearing. Additionally, needle retention is among the best for the spruces. Its popularity as an ornamental leads many consumers to use blue spruce as a living Christmas tree, to be planted after the holiday season. CONCOLOR FIR (Abies concolor) The Concolor Fir is an attractive tree with blue-green needles (often quite blue) with a unique aroma, once cut. Its citrus aroma is unique among Christmas trees, and its fine needle holding capability makes it a favorite choice for many real tree lovers during the holidays. It's relatively slow to medium growth rate during the first few years is more than compensated by the beauty of a well formed specimen. Its growth habit prefers moist, well-drained soils, tolerating heat and drought conditions among the best of the fir varieties and will grow in sun to partial shade. It is grown both for Christmas trees, and ornamental stock in Zones 3-7. DOUGLAS FIR (Pseudotsuga menziesii) The Douglas FirÂs branches are spreading to drooping, the buds sharply pointed and the bark is very thick, fluted, ridged, rough and dark brown. The needles are dark green or blue green, 1 to 1 1/2 inches long, soft to the touch and radiate out in all directions from the branch. They have a sweet fragrance when crushed. EASTERN WHITE PINE (Pinus strobus) Eastern White Pine needles are soft, flexible and bluish-green to silver green in color and are regularly arranged in bundles of five. Needles are 2 1/2-5 inches long and are usually shed at the end of the second growing season. For Christmas trees, sheared trees are preferred as shearing results in dense trees. Needle retention is good to excellent. White pine has very little aroma, but, conversely, is reported to result in fewer allergic reactions than do some of the more aromatic species. FRASER FIR (Abies fraseri) The combination of form, needle retention, dark blue-green color, pleasant scent and excellent shipping characteristics has led to Fraser fir being a most popular Christmas tree species. Fraser fir and balsam fir are quite similar. The Fraser Fir is one of the most fragrant of Christmas trees found today. Normally grown at elevations above 3,000 feet in the Appalachian areas of northeastern TN and western North Carolina, many southern growers import Fraser Fir from these areas to satisfy customer demand for this valuable tree. KOREAN FIR (Abies koreana) The Korean Fir prefers moist well drained soil, as with most firs, but tolerates less than optimal conditions, although slowing its growth rate in such areas. The needles are gray-green in color with two white bands on the underside. It prefers full sun to partial shade for optimal growth. With its slow to medium growth rate, it is used both for ornamentals and Christmas trees. Zones 5-7. LEYLAND CYPRESS (Cupressocyparis leylandii) The foliage of the Leyland cypress tends to be arranged in irregularly flat planes with a dark green to gray color. The shoots branch repeatedly and have a contrasting mahogany color except at the tips. The trees have little aroma. Customers like it because it is not only a very beautiful Christmas tree, but if kept in water, it will outlast any other tree without leaving needles in the carpet. MEYER SPRUCE (Abies meyeri) The Meyer Spruce has a moderate growth rate, and is widely tolerant of both medium to heavy soil conditions. Its needles are a blue-green, and are known for excellent needle retention as a cut Christmas tree. This tree is known to withstand extreme conditions and is widely grown both as an ornamental and as Christmas trees. Zones 2-7. MOMI FIR (Abies firma) The Momi Fir prefers full sun, and will tolerate a wide variety of soil conditions. Its needles are dark green, but have a slow growth rate. It is widely grown for use as an ornamental, and is currently the source of an experiment by TCTGA members as a root stock for Fraser Fir grafting, since the Momi has a high resistance to phytothera root rot, a problem in the Fraser industry. The Momi does not, in its current form, normally make a desirable Christmas tree for the home. Zone 6-9. NORDMANN FIR (Abies norrdmaniana) The Nordmann Fir is a slow growing, but beautiful version of the fir family, with exceptionally dark green needles with two white bands on the underside of each needle. It prefers full sun, and moist, well drained soils, but will withstand less favorable conditions. The waxy coating on the needles assist in preventing moisture loss while growing and the variety is currently being explored by the TCTGA as a suitable short needle fir for areas subject to heat and occasional drought conditions. Test results, while preliminary to date, appear favorable within these conditions. Often grown as ornamentals and Christmas trees, the latter requires a watchful eye to prevent the base from becoming too wide for the height of the tree. This is caused by the tree having a difficult time in setting a proper terminal shoot in early years of growth. Adaptable to Zones 4-7. NORWAY SPRUCE (Picea abies) The Norway Spruce is readily identified by its dark green needles and drooping branchlets. Needles are 4-sided, 1/2-1 inch long, and sharp or somewhat blunt at the tip. For Christmas trees, overall color of Norway spruce is good to excellent. A continuous water supply is a must for Norway Spruce as a cut Christmas tree, and the use of tree preservatives is touted as prolonging its life in the home. SCOTCH PINE (Pinus sylvestris) More properly defined as 'Scots Pine', this tree is usually referred to as a 'Scotch Pine'. As a Christmas tree, Scotch Pine is known for its dark green foliage and stiff branches which are well suited for decorating with both light and heavy ornaments. It has excellent needle retention characteristics and holds up well throughout harvest, shipping and display. Color is likewise variable with bright green characteristic of a few varieties to dark green to bluish tones more prominent in others. This tree is difficult to grow in southern climates. SERBIAN SPRUCE (Picea omorika) The Serbian Spruce is widely adaptable to a variety of soil conditions, with a moderate to fast growth habit. The needles are dark green on the top with a silvery finish on the undersides. The tree appears to take well to growth in containers, as well as the field, but may require a watchful eye from Christmas tree growers, as it has a tendency to produce multiple tops on the trees being tested by the TCTGA. Often grown as an ornamental evergreen, it will adorn the landscape with a lush growth habit. Zones 4-7. TURKISH FIR (Abies bornmuelleriana) The Turkish Fir is yet another member of the 'exotic fir' species being tested by the TCTGA for its heat resistance and drought tolerance. Results thus far are proving very interesting, with most young transplants doing very well in areas which have experienced severe rainfall shortages in the past two years. While new needles may appear to be light green, a properly grown tree will mature with dark green needles and good shape. A well formed Christmas tree variety and also a good ornamental. Also appears to grow well as container stock. Adaptable in Zones 5-8. VIRGINIA PINE (Pinus virginiana) Virginia pine is a short-needled pine with pleasant pine fragrance, dense foliage and good growth rates. It has been by far the most widely planted southern Christmas tree over the past three decades and still is the most common pine species at most farms in the Deep South. For growing, it requires much additional work, as it must be sheared (shaped) twice per year to retain its pyramidal shape. WHITE SPRUCE (Picea glauca) The White Spruce is a first cousin to the Blue Spruce and is a densely pyramidal evergreen. The needles are a dusty green to blue green in color. The species is a hardy variety, known for its wide adaptability to various adverse conditions such as heat, cold and drought. While it prefers a well drained soil, it will adapt to almost any soil condition and transplants well. Spider mites can be a problem, especially in hot, dry conditions. As a cut Christmas tree it is sometimes known for premature needle drop, however, if kept well watered (never let the truck seal over) and maintained in a cool environment it has been known to survive quite well. The addition of a good quality preservative assists in maintaining average needle retention.

hey welcome ... see link for a favored planting guide ... many of us.. fully bare root trees at planting.. and to do that.. you need to be planting in the proper planting season ... early spring.. or later fall .. depending where you are ... z5 is to large to make presumptions ... and the bottom line... if you are thinking of moving beyond bigboxstore green trees ... is to find some better sources .. crikey ... lol ... most of us mail order the finer specimens.. favoring small size for both shipping and cost ... or order in larger specimens form the left coast to a higher end local nursery .... i call green species trees [the ones with two latin names.. w/o a 'cultivar name'] .... telephone poles in the making ... depending on your garden size ... they are usually forest trees.. and have vast potential.. over the decades ... and as such.. should not be closer than 30 to 50 feet from a house .... i never buy ball and burlap ... mostly because they are outside my physical capability if of any size ... they always have a guy to hoik that sucker in your truck at the store ..... but who helps you at home... lol ... are you thinking of moving into the fancier plants???? we could probably make some suggestions where are you .. and whats your native soil ... clay, sand or something in between??? ken ps: if you continue to buy bigboxstore bargains [and there is nothing wrong with this if its makes you happy] ... just plant them and forget all this hocus pocus.. and use your warranty if they fail within a year ....its like you want a Cadillac planting guide for Yugo tree .. lol ... IMHO ,... the most important variable on transplant.. is two years of deep proper watering.. subject to your soil type [drainage].. and it should all be covered at the link ... Here is a link that might be useful: link