I leave my leaves!!!..and I have millions..we clean the roof and hardscaping..my neighbors hire crews that blow every leaf and twig to the curb and haul it off..I think my soil and plants are healthier because I let the leaves stay..

fyi..see the crows in the beech tree?..

The "rule" that Baptisias have a tap root and are difficult to transplant. It's completely false. Tony Avent disproved it in the 90s and I've dug a number of cultivars and species, tearing the root ball apart, replanting and giving away sections. I've also dug into the side of a specimen, taken out a piece and transplanted it. They all live.

Of course there are tap rooted plants that are near impossible to transplant--Asclepias tuberosa comes to mind--but Baptisias are not one of them.

What are these 'rules'? I regard them as suggestions at best or I fear my little hobby would turn into an overnight guiltfest. I cannot say, in honesty that I ignore garden advice - I truly make an attempt to get my timings, soil mixes, pruning regimes, design plans and so on, in some sort of coherent order...and even manage to succeed now and again but life is messy, I have the attention span of a toddler on a sugar rush and the general demeanor of a long-term stoner/slacker. For example, I order my seed potatoes early, set them out to chit, prepare the ground before time...but inevitably, they will sit in their trays for far longer than they should, or get put in too early in an excess of enthusiasm, or I won't manage to cover them before a frost...and then weeks of irrigation...which will usually grind to a halt so I have good years, bad years, utter fail years...but even then, there will be (some) roasties set aside for Xmas dinner.

My solution, to combat the inevitable fails and disasters of a committed idler - sow a shedload of seeds and hope for the best. I know my gardens will never match up to some fantasy magazine standard but boy, do I have a lot of flowers

* Transplanting things when they're not "supposed" to be transplanted. I try to employ some common sense (like -- you can't dig a hole when the ground is frozen and transplanting into sopping wet soil is going to suffocate roots) but for the most part I garden on my timetable -- it gets done when I have the time to do it and I feel like doing it.

* Transplanting things with a taproot. Just like laceyvail noted, I've transplanted baptisias numerous times and they've never missed a beat. Same with balloon flowers. I'm sure there's more but I can't think of them now.

* Planting taller plants in front of shorter plants. My primary view is out the windows, and I have a lot of mid-height to tall plants, which means I can't see some things out the window. So I'll plant shorter plants on the backside or in between taller plants. I do have to take sun requirements into consideration, but it's usually not too much of a problem. I also find it much more visually dynamic -- my garden isn't strict layers of short-medium-tall. I have head-high plants right smack at the edge of the beds in some cases. And I like it that way, it has a more natural feel and keeps things visually interesting.

I think most of us have been gardeners for long enough to note how horticultural orthodoxy has changed. Transplanting - I recall being amazed, watching an experienced gardener transplanting in midsummer, full mature growth...then noting the methods of Lancelot'Capability' Brown who regularly transplanted entire, full-grown TREES. And leaves - we all know how beneficial leaves are...as both mulch and sources of humus. It is old-fashioned, removing them all every year. And all those rules regarding amending soil and cutting back topgrowth when planting woodies.

I guess I am saying that rules are really there to be tested and challenged cos nothing is ever just simple black and white. We have to work with what we have...including our own abilities or temperaments.

And yep, matrix planting, ignoring all those old rules of 'long at the back and short at the front' has also been in the ascendancy,mxk3. We are the masters and mistresses of our own gardens and should feel free to experiment however we choose. Such as the ridiculous 'only plant in odd numbers of 3, 5, 7 etc. Why not a group of 4?

O yeah, Lalennoxa - I have gone for years ignoring the rambling roses. None have died and all flower (if a bit rampantly).

Another one: Don't use soil in containers. I never bought into that one. Straight potting mix dries out in a flash, and I have better things to do than stand around watering containers all flippin' day, or even once a day for that matter (I *hate* watering). I make a mix of about 50:50 quality topsoil and potting mix (or straight peat). It's worked for me for 25+ years, and I'm sticking to it. It reduces watering to every other day or even every third or fourth day, depending on the weather, and my containerized plants thrive.

ETA: "Why not a group of 4?"

Yea, that one too - I *do* have groups of 4!

@nicholsworth55

Yes, somewhere along the line, the idea of "cleaning" up the leaves, hauling them away, and then buying back fertilizer to replenish the same soil you previously "cleaned" became a thing. I'm in a smaller urban area, so I do need to shift some of the excessive leaves I have, but I leave most of it to form the best layer of composting materials, FREE!

@ laceyvail

Oh yes, the taproot rule, usually combined with the don't divide or move rule. I was instructed about this regarding my dictamnus albus (gas plant). Of course, I only learned about this rule after I had received a *division* of the plant which I added to my garden in the spring. Guess that division didn't follow the rules either, because it quickly established and flowered later that season.

I'd question whether or not there are any actual hard and fast "rules" of gardening. Certainly there are traditions or long accepted practices that many gardeners have come to accept as "the proper way to do things" but many of those have also been reversed or disproven by further scientific studies. Since I have a definite scientific bent to my personal gardening philosophy, I do study and try to understand all new gardening methodology that comes to my attention but changes to these long time practices would indicate that "rules" are maybe not the best way of referring to these practices.

Because I now garden almost exclusively in containers, I do follow very closely directions and advice of what are considered the best ingredients for a long lasting, high performing container potting media and so I avoid anything that has a tiny particle size - like garden soil - or excessive amounts of decomposable organic matter - like compost - as the soil will not perform optimally and collapses and compresses too rapidly and then encourages root rots. And there is plenty of scientific evidence to back this up, as well as my 30+ years of practical experience.

The other "rule" I will not mess about with is when and how to prune Hydrangea macrophylla.

If any such gardening rules do exist - and I don't believe there are many - then they have become "rules" for a good reason :-))

A small bit of zone pushing, despite lows getting as COLD as mine, I don't always let zone ratings determine what I attempt to grow. Slightly deeper planting of perennials and tender roses and providing with a bit of protection can make all the difference. As for other things, I also dig and divide plants for much of the growing season.

I water my garden and potted plants in the evening, sometimes at dusk and even get the foliage wet!! It DOES rain at night sometimes, doesn't it?! I do live on a slope with almost constant air movement and have never had a problem with powdery mildew, etc.,

I stopped being diligent about cutting down and disposing of perennial stems or foliage with powdery mildew. In my unscientific observation in my yard after not doing it for about 10 years the frequency and severity vary year to year just as much as when I did.

@ mxk3 and rosaprimula

Ah yes, the infamous "you can't move such and such plant and such and such time". I've moved plants at the height of August here, which is usually the biggest pooh-poohed time here because it's often sweltering hot. Guess what, haven't lost anything yet. Maybe because I water anything I move pretty consistently. And yes! I've moved trees as well when they are fully leafed out, in the dead of summer as well. It's not like I'm the Earl of Downtown Abbey with a bunch of minions who will do all this work LOL. It's pretty much down to me, and I gotta get things done when I get chance...

Oh yes, height guidelines, and the odd grouping matrix! What I will say about odd groupings, however, is I've seen people attempt to garden and hardscape in perfect symmetry - so we have a door in the centre, which must be framed on either side in two identical halves, or something to that effect. Sometimes, that can be a little...strangely bland and even jarring. Have you ever seen those images where they take a person's face, split in half vertically, and mirror one side or the other in such a way? Yikes!

I do a little bit of zone pushing, some of it in projects I do - I always communicate if I choose "fancy" or unusual plants even though they might be not 100% reliable

pruning roses: I started doing them in November instead of February, hoping for an earlier flower before the heat of summer sets in

seems to work ok in a mild z7 (vinyard climate)

Oh, I also ignore the "rule" of leaving plants to stand for the winter, had done so once when a very early snow had fallen and didn't allow for autumn clean up .... come spring, a myriad of mice had chewed down into the crowns of perennials and stripped the bark from shrubs and deer ate the tops of whatever remained standing, what a MESS!

>>>"I have head-high plants right smack at the edge of the beds in some cases. And I like it that way"

Yes! When you garden on a small property like I do, and you want to grow everything, you will inevitably need to plant some tall things right at the front edge...because the back is already filled up with tall things! Also, as I age my eyesight is worse, and if I want to see the fine details of an exquisite flower or variegated leaf, I want them right up front.

Pam, what would be your ideal soil mixes for a JM in a container?....and an Agave in a container?

I too, move things around no matter what the season..and just keep watered well. Also broke the rule that you cant divide shrubs….I’ve divided many : )

For the last 25 years or so I have ignored the spacing rules. I just don't have the patience to wait for things to fill in! Now that I am trying to slowly transform my gardens to shrub borders I am finally trying to plant using recommended spacing. It's hard enough (the work, the hassle, the berating myself for not planting properly) to move perennials, so I don't want to have to move shrubs!

And as a "plopper" I am sure I have broken every design rule ever written for gardeners lol!

:)

Dee

Dee ditto on the spacing and being a plopper! I’ve been spending the last few years trying to clean up the messes I’ve created : /

Dee, "plunkers" and "ploppers" that's my literal terminology for filler plants, LOL. I will always struggle with the spacing of shrubs, get it wrong and one is later digging established plants to scoot them over a foot or so. Leave too much space between and yet not quite elbow room for complementary perennials, then the beds look a bit too sparse, it never ends!

I always do though read seed packs! :)

Plunkers & Ploppers...I am a proud "Cramscaper".

@ Jeb

Oh yes, you've hit upon a biggie never water during (fill-in-the-blank) time, and never get the foliage wet :-)

Okay…and I am taking a big risk in admitting this because in some of my garden circles I might be ostracized…but I don’t always “leave the leaves” until May or whenever. I mostly do, but honestly, at the first sign of good weather if I have some time and energy, I am out there and clearing off paths, taking away excess leaves, etc. What I’ve learned over the years is it works to leave everything - when you have servants like Downton Abbey. Unfortunately , since it’s only down to me, I gotta do as much as I can when I have the strength, time and ability to do so.

LaLennoxa..I won’t tell anyone Lol..it’s hard to leave the garden untouched until May..I’ve been cleaning a little..my bulbs were coming up with leaves stuck in their foliage..I bet we still have a decent amount of leaves compared to many people..

The leaf thing always bothers me because I have a small yard in a city with yard ordinances. Leaves are to be raked out to the street for pickup and composting by the city. I could leave them on, but they would blow all over neighbors raked yards. (They would not like e that!!) They also settle on the sidewalks and interfere with snow removal which is mandated as well. I know they would be good for the garden, but living in the city makes it hard to do.

debra

My only garden rules are:
I try plants that I like which are zone appropriate with a little zone pushing as others have noted. If they don’t work out, oh well…..

I spend as much as I want for a very desired plant.

I do my vinegar/ ammonia slug drenches ALWAYS twice a season with touch ups.

I water when needed when I have time at anytime.

I cut back my Limelight Hydrangea Tree in the fall, not spring. If left until spring I will lose branches to wet, heavy snow in the winter.

I also move plants any time I want to. I also like a “full” look so will plant things closer than suggested or I buy 2-3 plants and plant them together to give the look of a bigger plant.

And I think anything goes for me otherwise. Recently with more sun in my back yard, I have been paying more attention to acquiring plants for pollinators. 🐝🐛🦟🦋

debra

oh, and I ignore the "old timer" garden lore, like

wait with Dahlia digging after frost

(not neccessairy, and you cant check for viruses then)

prune roses when Forsythia are flowering - around here way too late by now - I mean, perhaps it worked 20 y ago, but not in the last 3-8 years

and there is really a slippery slope frome old timers "gardeners yarn" to total BS

I feel like I am going to Garden Confession every time I remember and admit to some garden no-no that I do and might lead to me being ostracized out there. But this is a safe place, right? Here's another one: I use a targeted spray to kill the red lily beetles which would otherwise decimate my lilies. The Garden Gods around here would have me going around and either squishing each bug individually, or carrying a bucket of soapy water and flicking them in to drown. I have no desire to do that. Now, that being said I definitely do not spray indiscriminately, or in large amounts. Just a short blast directly on them when I see them out of the corner of my eye. I get an immense amount of satisfaction seeing those red invaders getting a targeted squirt of spray, and watching them fall to their demise. I did these short blasts maybe 10 times last year, and that was enough to keep everything in check.

Spacing. I plant things too close together but it usually works out and I like the look.

I dig sometimes after a rain. My soil just doesn't get compacted in most places. It is very loose. Some parts of my garden I wouldn't do that. Late last fall and winter I pruned some roses because they were annoying me.

All of them!

Do not do over head watering. What the heck does rain do? I water overhead all the time and I do not notice any issues. However I rigorously follow all other gardening rules. :0)

Yes, that one is a goodie. Next they’ll have us going around with umbrellas to protect our plants from overhead watering.

This is such a fun thread! I'm sitting here chuckling and nodding in agreement at the posts!

As a very beginning gardener, I truly was confounded about the overhead watering thing - after all, isn't that how rain works? I will admit I now usually water things at the base, but that's more because I think it's more efficient, not because of getting foliage wet.

After performing acrobatics for years, trying to stay on a stepping stone or rock to prune, weed, dig, whatever, I now just step on the garden soil. I'm too old for that balancing on a stone nonsense. The few square inches of soil where my body weight was will recover.

"... one is later digging established plants to scoot them over a foot or so...."

Ughhhhhhhh. FB, I can't tell you how many times I have done this. It REALLY sucks when it's a big shrub (actually, I'm looking out the window now at a few that need to be moved!) Although I will say in my defense that many times it is because the shrub that was supposed to stay 3 feet wide decided to grow to 6 feet wide. I guess the plants don't follow rules either!

"...What are these 'rules'? I regard them as suggestions at best..."

rosa, sounds like you (and me and many people here!) subscribe to what I like to call, the Captain Barbossa Method of Gardening

:)

Dee

Among the "rules" I routinely ignore:

1) the admonitions of "color theory" types who agonize over proper color combinations in the garden. Somehow, they sort themselves out in a enjoyable way no matter what violations I commit.

2) zone rating mandates. With good siting and mulching (or other means of winter protection), plants often survive and thrive well outside of their suggested zones.

The only rule I fully adhere to is that a successful garden is one that pleases the gardener.

It’s fun to look back on your old threads, and say wait a minute…did I really write this? Because didn’t I do what I said I didn’t? So confession time: in direct contradiction to what I originally wrote about clematis, I actually attempted pruning them accordingly this year (specifically the large blooming ones, which you can take completely back). I think I got caught up in all these YouTube videos which were encouraging removing all hellebore and epimedium foliage; and I thought while I am out there hacking things back, why not the clematis too. And surprise, I actually liked the result in all 3 cases. So not something I’d necessarily sweat over, but it worked for me.

LaLennoxa..could you explain-removing all? hellebore and epimedium foliage..

I leave the foliage until spring and then remove just the tattered foliage..did you do something different?..

Yes, I mean exactly that - removed ALL the old foliage. I found this YouTube which really depicts what I did, and pretty much the same time and weather conditions. Both the hellebores and epimediums responded with great new foliage and blooms. I couldn’t believe that I had never done this before! https://youtu.be/WR7N7dGtipc?si=A9k-j8I7m5zzirfp

I watched the video..maybe my climate isn't as cold..my hellebores aren't as flat or as brown as what I saw in the video..an April picture..

Yes, I don't think my leaves ever got to that degree as well. However, I did have very old clumps, and I had never really removed any leaves over the years, so I thought why not give this an experiement. And I was shocked to see how they responded. I think most people would be surprised to realize that I removed every single leaf last winter, as within a few weeks the new growth was out and the clumps now look like I never did anything. Maybe I'll do a picture diary this season.

I didn’t know this was a thing, but it works wonderfully. I simply got tired of ’saving’ pristine leaves in this large bed, so i just laid waste to it. This was February 12, 2024

More timeline coming…

March 15, 2024

April 28, 2024

I keep reading that one shouldn't use fresh tree chippings or stump grindings as mulch or amendment. I have ignored that, used both for both purposes in my heavy clay, poor draining soil and have hugely improved the drainage and the growth of plants in the beds.

indianagardengirl..it is a hassle to pick and choose as you clip..ever cut the wrong one and be aggravated?..I have..

Oh, you bet NW!

@indianagardengirl When you say "laid waste" do you mean you came in with a weed whacker and mowed down the old hellebore leaves?

I have many hellebores. Mostly due to reseeding. I use this tool to trim the leaves. Too many other plants in the bed to just whack them.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07V44Q5MF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

This tool is one of the most useful I've purchased in a long time. Trim the hellbores without bending over, trim seed heads from a host of plants that are difficult to reach from the border and dead head climbing roses. Very handy.

i was on hands and knees taking off everything because i have only perennials in that bed and did it early enough to not impact spring flush. YMMV. I can see where that tool would be handy!