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dough71

Matte vs Glossy Subway Tile: When/Where to Use?

dough71
3 months ago

I'm renovating a small basement bathroom. I'll be using tall wainscoting and hooks on surrounding walls (similar to this). On the short end walls, I plan to use General Shale Thin Brick Ironworks above the wainscoting (similar to this, but the wainscoting will be painted off-white). I'll be using white oak to wrap the beam so that it resembles a real beam (see image below for "concept"). I'll also be purchasing a wall-to-wall wall mirror for above the sink and toilet to enlarge the space. Our contractor will insert a niche that will extend above the 36" vanity and toilet to give us more countertop space (similar to this). I've chosen Daltile LVT Asher Bend Villa AB22 for the floor. For the ease of cleaning (and keep things sanitary), I'd like to utilize half tiled walls surrounding the toilet. Here's where I need help.


To keep with the new theme (rustic/farmhouse) look, should I plan to use subway tile on the two walls surrounding the toilet (remember, I only plan to tile half the walls)? If I do this, should I use the same tile for the vanity backsplash? Also, would you use matte or glossy subway tile? Matte looks rather dull, but glossy may not fit well with the theme.


Current bathroom:




How I'd like it to look after the renovation (rough concept). MINUS the art & towels above the toilet.



Thoughts/suggestions?

Comments (26)

  • PRO
    Beth H. :
    3 months ago
    last modified: 3 months ago

    you can link the pictures.

    so you want this wainscot?


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    With this brick

    Pembridge Mews, Notting Hill, W11 · More Info


    with this vanity?? (I hope not)

    Turtle Bay Loft · More Info


    and this floor tile? vinyl?


    I like the herringbone better


    what subway tile? go over to bedrosians and look at the Marin line, the sahara line, and the Makoto line

    do you have a vanity yet?

    dough71 thanked Beth H. :
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  • dough71
    Original Author
    3 months ago

    Beth H. and Kendrah, thank you sooo much for your feedback. Beth, I will not be using that vanity...yuk! Lol! I provided a link to that photo to give readers an idea of what a niche would resemble behind the sink (think "concept"). I'm having a custom vanity built with plenty of storage in a rustic hickory with grey rock stain. I've also thought of having them build a narrow cabinet (23" W x 17" D x 40" H) to fill the awkward dead space on the wall next to the shower. I prefer the herringbone, too. Would that pattern look okay in a bathroom that is only 12' x 5'?


    Kendrah, we used the General Shale Ironworks brick in our kitchen and laundry room and it turned out beautiful (colors are not quite accurate due to the lighting). I've seen several images (mostly from Europe) that have single beams running through the bathroom. They look great. I don't plan to make it a dark color, as that would really look weird. Perhaps I should just use semi-gloss paint on the walls around the toilet to make it easy to sanitize rather than try and add another finish. Or would you suggest placing wainscoting on those walls to match the other walls? Maybe that would be too much.





  • dough71
    Original Author
    3 months ago

    BTW, Beth H., the Bedrosians's Marin in Sand Dollar is gorgeous!

  • Kendrah
    3 months ago

    Wait, now we have another wood tone for your vanity in here? You are too much, and so is your bathroom!


    Wow, I love the black inset above your range. Fantastic. Yes, the brick looks nice in your kitchen and hallway. Leave it there and be glad you have it in your home already. You don't need to shove everything you like into one bathroom.


    What are the measurements of your bathroom? Maybe it is larger than I think? Your kitchen looks so retrained and balanced. Why are you going bonkers with the bathroom?

    dough71 thanked Kendrah
  • PRO
    Beth H. :
    3 months ago
    last modified: 3 months ago

    can you post a pic of your vanity? (or wait until it's completed?) you have to start w/one item and work around that.

    If you do the brick, I don't know that I'd do the board/batten. it's too much in that little space

    are you thinking of this style?


    instead of the brick, what if you did a cool, rustic terra cotta tile floor?


    Maybe a black terra cotta,

    or a star and cross floor tile in terra cotta?


    comes in ceramic/porcelain too. a terra cotta or black would look nice w/the wood Vanity


    lots of really cool floor tiles. I'd splurge on this accent and keep everything else simple. (c-below)





    lets start w/some rustic ideas and see what you like. (lots o' pics!)

    No brick, but they did do the vintage looking tile (cloe is good one. but I think bedrosians has a bunch of other options) paired w/the wainscot. I like this better than brick. darker wood vanity and a black herringbone floor)


    I like the ceiling mount woven light too


    here's another version (ignore the shower area)


    they used a vertical plank as the wainscot. you could do tile instead, or do tile above

    wood vanity w/a black or dark color plank wall


    Pair it with these sconces


    Tile behind the vanity in this matte black and wall mount faucet also looks killer.


    instead of wainscot, you can do the entire wall w/the vertical plank


    Or, tile backsplash like this, w/the vertical plank above it. you can do this around the room too, or just do the vertical plank all the way up, 1/2 or 3/4)


    ignore shower, just look at vanity area. it's rustic


    I like the patterned floor tile w/this one. I like this tile


    another rustic vanity, black tile all the way up, pendant lights


    soldier style subway tile behind faucet area, plank above that


    plain old 3/4 board/batten. no brick. pendant lighting is nice w/the wallmount faucet


    I don't care for this exact floor tile. a herringbone in a dark color could be nice.

    I do like this rustic wood shelf though




    do these pics help at all?

    dough71 thanked Beth H. :
  • RedRyder
    3 months ago

    Your kitchen is really lovely. I would NOT use the brick in your bathroom but definitely do a wainscoting on the walls that are similar to your Shaker cabinets.

    Using a rustic vanity (like @Beth’s example) and the terracotta cross shaped tiles on the floor gives you a bathroom that looks good with the house that owns that kitchen.

  • dough71
    Original Author
    3 months ago
    last modified: 3 months ago

    Kendrah, this basement bathroom is a Jack and Jill galley measuring 12' x 5'. Bathroom layout is highlighted in yellow. Ideally, I would expand the shower to go the entire width of the bathroom, but we just had our kitchen sink pipes freeze last week. Thankfully, they didn't burst, but if they had, it would have been right over the extension of the shower. So with that in mind and trying to keep expenses to a minimum, I have chosen not to expand the shower.


    As for the kitchen, I worked around the cast iron fireback that I knew I wanted above my range. Turned out great! But I don't know where to start with this bathroom renovation.



    Here is what I know:

    1. Keep costs to a minimum. Not spending $35K on a basement bathroom.

    2. Maximize storage. We often pack up to 6 guests in this bathroom. This is why I wanted wainscoting. Looks good when you need to hang multiple towels. https://www.houzz.com/photos/cottage-modern-eclectic-bathroom-los-angeles-phvw-vp~716057

    3. Brighten the room. This bathroom has no windows, so I'd like to keep things light.

    4. Incorporate warmth. Wanted a heated tile floor, but water heater is on the other side of the wall so if it leaks we'd have to tear out the tile. Also, heated flooring adds another $1K to the job. LVT isn't as cold on the feet.

    I'm thinking the beam if wrapped properly could look good.


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    Another reason for the wainscoting is to help this long boring wall. UGH!



    BTW - The dark trim and baseboard will be replaced with larger off-white trim.

  • dough71
    Original Author
    3 months ago

    Beth H., yes, these photos resemble what I have been looking at for ideas. You clearly understand the look that I am after! The new 36" vanity will look similar to the last photo you posted but with legs. I was thinking of incorporating a large round mirror, but I think a mirror that extends the full width of the wall would enlarge the space. As for lighting, I hate exposed bulbs. Cute design, but very harsh on the eyes. So I was thinking of using a linear tube sconce with frosted glass. I've found a few that have an industrial/rustic vibe. I also plan to have recessed lights installed in the ceiling on a dimmer.

  • dough71
    Original Author
    3 months ago
    last modified: 3 months ago

    Here are a few images that got me thinking of mixing the wainscoting with brick.

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  • Kendrah
    3 months ago

    Thanks for all of the details. That six people will be using this space is a huge factor and how to maximize space and comfort should come first before finishes. I just complete a super narrow guest bath (90" x 50") with lots of foibles, and appreciate that you are not tossing boatloads of $$$ at this. Beth's pic has a lot of inspiration that could be great in your space.



    Do white subway tile partway up the wall along the the sink wall, including behind the toilet and behind the sink. Glossy tile to reflect more light. Easier toilet cleaning - check!


    Line the great sink niche with a plank of wood on the bottom. Exposed wood vibe - check! Don't use the wood wrap on the beam where in your dark basement bathroom, unlike in your inspiration pics, it will make the room longer, narrower, and the ceiling shorter.


    Paint the walls, ceiling and beam white. If you still want wood wainscoting paint it white too. Lighter, brighter, more expansive room - check!


    Use white floor tile. Avoids a wood floor/wood vanity clash, makes room feel bigger to have same colored floors and walls so perimeter isn't outlined like the bottom of a box. Wood vanity will pop more against the white floor. Industrial rustic intensified - check!


    Big mirrored recessed cabinet over vanity will add so much more storage for 6 guests. It is just too practical not to do. It will still be plenty of mirror to expand the brightness of the room. Put one in my bathroom and guests really appreciate it. Storage - check!


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    Did major towel hook investigation for my renovation. Put them on the short wall between the two doors. (All 6 or 4 plus one on each door.) This area of your room is dead real estate and hooks are the perfect use. Lined up across from the vanity, it just contributes to the long bowling alley effect and people brush against them more. Test it out with some command strip hooks in your current bathroom.









    dough71 thanked Kendrah
  • dough71
    Original Author
    3 months ago

    Kendrah, I like your ideas. This is exactly what I needed! I have one more problem area ("dead real estate" as you would call it). It's the very tight, useless space at the other end of the bathroom in front of the shower door. The current framed shower door is 40" wide (actual door is 22" wide with stationary panel of 17.25"). BTW - I plan to replace with a glass frameless pivot shower door. To help with the awkward shower entrance, I was thinking of swapping the location of the door and stationary panel (see diagram below). I also thought of having our contractor build a narrow pony wall (replacing the stationary panel) to allow for a small built-in cabinet (to match our vanity) that would sit against the back wall and provide additional storage. Thoughts??





    What appears as an arrow is actually the shower head location. Lol! The shower head is on the wall next to the toilet.


  • Kendrah
    3 months ago

    Oooh, I'm getting excited. No matter what I'd love to see a recessed light illuminating that area outside the shower. Two ideas for more storage:


    A. Build the pony wall. Back wall from top to midway down is mirrored (no frame). From top of pony wall level down have open shelves - folded towel, extra tp. Top shelf will feel like a counter.

    OR


    B. Mirror the entire back wall, no frame. Will reflect back a ton of light. Don't add storage there and instead create more storage above the toilet. Here are some ideas. Not your style but...


    Shallow cabinet for toilet paper, other supplies, products.

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    Ugly bathroom but I wonder if a plank of wood from the niche could extend across and run underneath some cabinets like this one does...

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    Simple more open look of shelves for towels

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    dough71 thanked Kendrah
  • PRO
    Beth H. :
    3 months ago
    last modified: 3 months ago

    as long as you're redoing the shower, just extend it to the wall and have the entry in front. you can still do the pony wall to bring in some light. in fact, you won't even need a shower door if you do this. the entrance will be far enough away from the water flow


    (ignore the style)


    Or, forget the pony wall, take down the whole thing, extend shower to the right wall, and do either a fixed panel on the toilet side, w/opening on the right, or do sliding doors.


    I did one like this for my neighbor. it's 5' wide. glass panel (not shown here) on the left is about 32" or so. no water escapes from the right opening.


    You could even do this idea w/the pony wall if you like.

    a bit more to your style,,,take it to the wall, have an opening on the right side, take down that wall next to toilet, and do a full panel like this one. no need for a door. water won't escape (reverse this image for your layout)


    or, something like this,,,no glass needed (and no glass to clean!) Reverse this to suit your space

    another option, open up the whole thing and take it to that wall

    no curb, but you can put in a curb too. no door needed


    my point is, there is no need to keep that awkward, skinny entry point. just eliminate it. (if it's possible)

    Once you do that, all sorts of design options are available


    But if you want to keep that skinny part, you can do the pony wall next to toilet


    again, ignore the style, just look at layout





    dough71 thanked Beth H. :
  • Kendrah
    3 months ago

    Are you redoing the shower or just redoing the doors? I suspected that if you were doing this on a budget well under $35k that you were not going to be gutting the whole shower.

    dough71 thanked Kendrah
  • PRO
    Beth H. :
    3 months ago

    Kendrah, good point. I misread the part about the pony wall. she wanted a built in shelf, I thought she was going to put in an actual pony wall for the shower.


    dough71, I don't know if redoing the shower is in the budget, but it would be a game changer for this bathroom if you did. There are ways to do a lot of this work yourself to keep down costs.

    I wouldn't invest money in glass doors for this though. save it until you have enough to redo the shower.

    dough71 thanked Beth H. :
  • dough71
    Original Author
    3 months ago

    Kendrah, yes, I have already planned for recessed lights on the other side of the beam! Good call! The cabinet company can make floating shelves that match the vanity, so that may work, too. I still like the idea of utilizing the dead space next to the shower for a cabinet, although a full-length mirror would look amazing. The 1985 shower is the main reason we are renovating this bathroom. IT HAS TO BE GUTTED! The drain was not placed properly, so we have had water leaking between the pan and the drain. Also, the grout has disintegrated, and water has gotten behind the tiles. We now have several soft tiles that are covered with masking tape. It's a mess! For this reason, too, I want to avoid grout…I think I’ve been traumatized. Lol! Subway tile would look good and would continue around the toilet, but I just can’t deal with all that grout. I also hate seeing grout lines. I like the look of cement tile (Daltile NY2LA, for example). I’d choose large tiles for minimum grout lines and a grout color that would make the grout lines disappear. Many people state that the shower floor ought to be small tiles to prevent slippage, but I prefer larger tiles surrounding the drain, as seen in this bathroom:


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    But if I had to go with smaller tiles, I like the NY2LA Warm Mix Polygon Mosaics. They likely don’t go with my “theme”, but they are DIFFERENT. I like that. I also like Daltile Fabrique Crème Linen because you can mix a lot of different colors with it. And I like the look of rectangular tumbled mosaics, but I’ve read that they are a lot of work to maintain. This is a good example of mosaics with Fabrique Creme Linen which comes in 12x24 or 24x24.


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  • dough71
    Original Author
    3 months ago
    last modified: 3 months ago

    Beth H. your idea of extending the shower to the wall with the entry in front was my original idea. With a light on the other side of the beam it would look fine. This image was my inspiration.


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    However, we got a quote for the tile and installation, and it was over $9K not including the demo, drywall, plumber, electrician, and glass door. Also, our kitchen pipes froze recently (they are on the floor, not the wall). If they had burst, it would have been right over this awkward space. For that reason, too, I think it’s wise not to expand. My contractor also suggested removing the wall and changing the location of the shower head to open the whole thing. But thinking through the pros and cons, I like having the wall against the toilet, as it allows for two people to share the bathroom at one time, and each has privacy. I'd like to keep the budget at $20 to $25K...not $35K! Am I being unreasonable?

  • Kendrah
    3 months ago
    last modified: 3 months ago

    Interesting. So you do need to gut the shower. Can you clarify - The plan you have in mind now, call it plan A - with the shower in its current size and orientation, how much will it cost to do your whole bathroom? What has a contractor quoted you for plan A? If plan B is to turn the shower 90-degrees with the entry facing front as in your original inspiration pic and as Beth has suggested, what has the contractor quoted you for your entire bathroom with plan B?

    With plan A you are still going to have to demo, plumb, drywall, and tile. I can see why it might be slightly more if you turn the shower 90 degrees, but it doesn't seem like it would be that much more.

    Fear of grout - it sounds like you have a lot of water issues from poor installation of the drain and it is possible that they didn't water proof or install the grout correctly either. I have lived in bathrooms with 100 year old subway tiles and original grout and there was no deterioration at all. Also confused because your post title says subway tile.

    Regarding turning 90-degrees and overhead access to pipes: I'd plan the shower so the ceiling can be easily accessible. I live in a coop apartment building. Everybody's bathroom pipes run through the floor. So if the person above me needs bathroom work done, they will have to access their pipes through my bathroom ceiling. When we redid my bathroom, workers had to cut a hole in the shower ceiling of the person below me. The trick - Don't tile your ceiling nor all the way up the wall. Leave a gap at the top. And, get a shower door that can come off the hinges, or be removed in some other fashion for work to be done.

    Here's a pic of my bathroom ceiling mid-construction to accommodate ceiling water pipe access if needed:




    dough71 thanked Kendrah
  • dough71
    Original Author
    3 months ago

    Hi Kendrah, as for the title of this post, I was trying to determine if there were any rules for using matte vs glossy subway tiles with a contemporary farmhouse look if I were to use subway tiles around the toilet. You answered that question in a previous post - thank you! Also, many thanks for the tips (i.e., don't tile the ceiling). The current shower ceiling is painted and turns yellow from moisture. Our contractor suggests tiling it. What if we tiled the ceiling on the shower head side of the beam and painted the ceiling on the "awkward space" side of the beam for the purposes you have stated? Would that look weird? I also agree with your Plan A vs. Plan B and the cost difference not being that much greater. Maybe we just gut the shower, enlarge it and leave the rest of the bathroom in its dated shape until we have the budget to tackle it properly. But I'm still left with deciding on tile. Ugh!

  • dough71
    Original Author
    3 months ago
    last modified: 3 months ago

    My original shower quote for over $9K was for the extended shower with the door in the front. I was thinking of doing a decorative tile in the corner (the corner you would see through a glass door in the "awkward" space), but the tile guy recommended that we choose a different tile for the entire back wall as well as the side wall instead of chopping it up. I find most showers to be boring with a vertical or horizontal decorative tile. Yawn! This image gave me the idea to try something different (minus the horizontal stripe). I don't like it, but think "concept". Given that we'll have a recessed light placed over the awkward space, it would be nice to have something pretty to look at.

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    Perhaps I utilize a border tile if we don't tile to the ceiling, as you recommend. Would it look odd to do this on the one side of the beam and do full tile (ceiling included) on the other?


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  • Kendrah
    3 months ago

    You need to address the moisture issue in your bathroom regardless of whether the ceiling is painted or tiled. Does your fan exhaust outside or is it just recirculating and do you ever use it? Your current shower seems positioned in a way that steam would just get trapped back there? And, I bet your crumbling grout and drain issue is causing it to be a ridiculously moist area. Get all of this fixed. Turn the shower sideways, get a fan that exhausts outside, put your lights on two switches, one for the vanity area and one for the shower area and fan so that the fan comes on automatically when the shower light goes on.


    I have another bathroom. We take two hot showers in it daily and there is no fan in the room. We sometimes open the window but not usually. The ceiling is painted white and it has never discolored at all.


    I'd get a quote for turning the shower, using one kind of easy to lay tile on the shower floor and one on the walls, a new floor in the bathroom, lighting, stock vanity, new toilet and painting the whole bathroom.


    Forget multiple kinds of tile in the shower, wainscoting, tiling behind the toilet, no niche, no extra cabinets. Buy some already made shelves to hang above the toilet. Pick beautiful paint, tile, and vanity color that all go together well. Buy some beautiful towels and a mirror. Fancy wall treatments, fancy tile, custom vanity. This all jacks up the price. Go back to the basics. You need to create a well functioning, nice looking bathroom, not a masterpiece.





  • dough71
    Original Author
    3 months ago

    Kendrah, you just solved a mystery - THANK YOU! We have two exhaust vents under our deck. One is for the dryer and now that you mention it, the other is very likely the bathroom exhaust vent! I was wondering why there were two. We had the original exhaust fan replaced with a quiet version, but I don't believe it's powerful enough or maybe it should be relocated so the moisture doesn't get trapped in the corner. You've been a tremendous help! I greatly appreciate all your advice!!

  • Kendrah
    3 months ago

    You are so welcome. With a Jack and Jull bathroom, having a loud vent is sometimes a good way to increase privacy and mask certain sounds! We intentionally got a loud fan for our powder room and connected it to the light switch.

  • dough71
    Original Author
    3 months ago

    It never occurred to me to connect it to the light switch. We have three switches…shower, exhaust fan, and light above sink. Seems like a lot for a small bathroom.

  • PRO
    Ms Glenda Home Designs
    3 months ago

    You have great taste and the farmhouse theme looks inviting. My thought is will this bathroom get a lot of use? If so the glossy tile would be more practical.

    dough71 thanked Ms Glenda Home Designs
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