You can do much better but first you have to let go of what you have. Thats hard because youve already invested so much time drawing and redrawing what you have so that now you cant even see what doesnt work. I understand that feeling. Im an artsit and often I cant see what doesnt work with my own drawings

Actually a n L or T shaped house would work so much better. Im not at home now but would love to show you a better idea if youre willing to wait until the first week in October

Agree that an L or T would give you tremendously better results.

I could be wrong, but I think "I designed this house with my architect" will have a far better result than "I designed this house with crowd sourcing".

I don't think I am wrong.

I dont think taking weeks extra is much compared to where you are going to live for the next couple decades! the long narrow common area with windows only at ends and no dining area feels like an apartment building to me rather than cozy house. i don’t think you need a formal dining at all but i can’t imagine building a house that 95% of people automatically won’t consider as there is zero space for a table. the views sound fantasic and i would also want a wall of windows on my living area rather than a narrow tunnel. Can you think creatively about how you could use space that would fit dining? Nice sitting area separare from tv? card table? something?

Take your time to get it right. cpartist‘s house was in permitting when she pulled it back and reworked it to be the house that works even better for them and for the site.

Sally, wait for cpartist. I am waiting for her! :)

Hello everybody. Thank you all for thinking of me and helping!

Here's where I'm at :

I was playing around with Naf_Naf's drawing today, to see how I could possibly make it slightly smaller. Her sketch is the best I've seen, but as you can see from where we left off, I was curious how a slightly smaller version could look, perhaps around 1,500 sqft or so, while still maintaining a very large kitchen /scullery for canning, appliances, etc.

I'd love to keep Naf's kitchen breakfast nook idea, which essentially creates a 3rd dedicated eating space (1: coffee table in from of TV, 2: kitchen island, 3: breakfast seating with a view), which also aids any justification for going without a dining table.

About the dining table, let me open up a bit with you all ... another reason our current dining table has gone completely untouched is because husband has scoliosis and is uncomfortable sitting in chairs. So of the years, we developed an appreciation for how the Japanese eat (and other cultures out there, I'm sure of it... perhaps some Middle Eastern ones?), which is to eat on the floor.

Here at home, we eat on pillows in front of a low-rise coffee table, that has clearance just large enough to stick our legs through. It's located in front of our L-shaped sectional, facing the TV. That's how we've eaten for years, and that's what we're essentially hoping to recreate for the new house.

Sometimes I'll sit at our Island while Hubby is on the floor, and turn my chair slightly so I can see both him and the TV. Probably not ideal for many, or people with children, but for us, it's rather lovely. (I also think it's helped to keep me in shape, continually having to go up and down from the floor during diner lol ... )

That said, I totally hear the concerns for lack of dining table space. Perhaps somebody can think of another solution, now that you know a little more context about our lifestyle. Maybe the kitchen island could have one of those small eating tabled attached to it? I've seen that on interior design pages.

For those who have commented about resale value, I imagine that a house of this size, being in a slightly remote location, wouldn't attract any families large than 2. I imagine another retired couple, who wants a house just for them. Could a breakfast nook + a massive kitchen island + coffee table suffice for 2 people? Maybe yes, maybe no.

Anyways, here's what I experimented with today. I brought the middle of the house closer together and shifted the island at least 5 or 6 feet away from the kitchen sink & more toward the wall, so that the island helps to merge the two rooms together. I also think 4' is a little tight for comfortably standing in front of and opening a 36" fridge column door. So I put it to the size for now.

I'm not sure how to make the Primary closet & bathroom work. I'm stuck.

Iharpie : I totally hear you about the dining table, and you're likely very correct. Please see my comments in this post for why we don't really want one. Maybe there is a better solution for our particular situation, while still giving the house a re-sale value it deserves!

I also don't think for a living room that's 15'x 16', that it would feel anything close to being narrow, as you're saying, but perhaps I'm wrong. To make, it feels like a huge open space with a sloped ceiling above ("huge" in relation to the total house size... I know that's nothing for a mansion). The window against the sectional is 8' long x4.5' high, which I also think is huge. If I have any other windows for the living space, I'd have to either remove the TV, or have windows on either side of the TV, which I don't think I'd care for, or I'd have to add windows behind the couch, which would create a big glare on the screen.

cpartist & Theresa : The idea of a T shape home sounds lovely, but I do wonder how appropriate it would be for the size of this home. When I think of a T shaped home, I think of something large, something hyper modern with floor to ceiling windows, and many rooms to cover. A large family home or a house for entertaining. I don't think of a small retiree home in the woods. I could be very wrong and I'd love to see how my idea would look in a T-shaped home. L-shaped might be lovely as well! Actually L shape sounds awesome.

Cpartist, if you are willing to share an idea with me, I would be so grateful to see it. You're right, I've have poured hours upon hours into what I have that I'm likely stuck in my ways. I am willing to wait until October to see what you have in mind. Thank you so much for even considering this! :)

You should know, I'm able to go up to 55' wide MAX. (the distance along the North wall ... aka Kitchen side of current plan). I had previously sketched earlier a 9'x16' porch on the East-side entrance next to the Mudroom (scroll above), but after thinking, that can be minimized down to just a 5' deep porch - basically enough to keep rain off the door. By minimizing the porch depth, that allows for extra width of the house if need be. As mentioned, I have no plans to spend a lot of time sitting and "relaxing" in the heat and mosquitos. If I'm outside, I'm either getting messy in the garden or getting messy harvesting the fruits from the trees.

Mark : I know I'm taking a risk by designing a home with crowd sourcing but it's a risk I'm willing to take. I'm sure you're an amazing architect yourself, and I'm happy to hear your thoughts with our endeavor, but unfortunately our experience with the previous architect left us utterly despondent.

So much hard-earned savings thrown down the drain. I actually considered making efforts to have his license questioned by some kind of authority, for breach of contract and all the hell he put us through, but we were his last clients and he's now retired, and I can't muster the energy to even go through that. I just want to move forward and see what I can accomplish by putting many brains together. Thank you for being here.

Am I writing too much? Gosh, it looks like I wrote an essay, doesn't it :/ If it's too many details, just tell me to stop. I've also tried to address anybody who takes the time to leave me feedback. Thanks!

Just want to say, I would like to eat at the coffee table all the time, too. Very comfy.

Good morning,

I'm working to solve the puzzle here.

What should I do with the primary bath/closet layout?

The house doesn't need to be a perfect four-sided rectangle, and taking out a chunk would actually help save unnecessary sq ft. I just don't know how to arrange this :

Another issue....

is the part where the living room ceiling drops. I don't think it would look aesthetically pleasing if an Arch or a Door is smack dab in the center of the drop down ceiling.

It would look much prettier if the doorways were placed under the dropped ceiling, with some space between the fridge as well. Not as squished looking.

BUT, that means the couch will need to be shifted further from the kitchen island, giving it that "narrow hallway" feeling somebody had brought up earlier. See here :

Do you think it's that much of an issue? Is kitchen and living too far a part or is it not a big deal?

My hope is that the sloped living room ceiling will be a pleasant surprise upon entering through the arches, and gives the feeling of dimension and less of a "hallway" as somebody pointed out earlier.

Same with the glass egress doors, to bring in more natural light to fill the space.

(This is me assuming the living room slope will need to line up with roof plan, with the hipped roof dividing down the center of the home)

Look up architectrunnerguy in these forums

Cpartist : Thank you so much. I sent him a message. Never sent a message on here before, but kindly asked if he'd be willing to take a peek at this discussion we're having.

I believe you mentioned a T, U, or L shaped home should be considered. I've been looking online and I agree, they look very lovely for taking in views.... I just don't know where to begin :(

Cpartist : Thank you for the inspiration... I believe you are right. I've been looking at this all wrong.

A home like this would triple the amount of views coming into the home.

An L works well with a small foot print. my house is 1100 sq ft (3bed/2 bath) and every room has windows on at least 2 walls except the the laundry/mechanical room and bathrooms..

And just because you are posting a modern looking home doesnt mean you need to do a modern home. My house is on a 90 x 95 lot and mine is a U shape in the craftsman style. We too are retired, well DH is, and live in SW Florida. I cant pull up my build threads now, but maybe someone else can. Every room in our house has windows on at least 2 walls and no room is closed in like theliving room in your plan.

Im glad to see you are keeping an open mind because building a home has hundreds of parts and each part affects at least some other parts. If you dont have a design background you really need to find someone with vision to work with you.

wsea : Thank you for sharing. That sounds close to what I have in mind.

cpartist : Thank you for sharing as well. I'm googling like crazy at the moment, but I believe what I'm best suited for is what's called a "courtyard" house. They focus on the surrounding views. Yes, I'm definitely trying to stay open minded and I find many of these courtyard homes absolutely beautiful. This is what we need. I will one day look back and feel so grateful to everybody on Houzz for helping change course of history!

They are beautiful but you may be better off with an L or T. Not sure but I say that because you are on a larger piece of land with more views

cpartist : I'm not opposed to modern, it just didn't fit the "look" with the "box" home we were working with.

Hubby is next to me, and we find these examples to be VERY beautiful.

I think we'd change our concept completely. More of a cost with windows, but for a smaller home, it should be fine.

Just look at all the views coming in, I'm in LOVE.

Imagine palms and tree ferns and flowers outside these windows :

I suppose my next step is searching for 2b/2b homes and modifying an example floor plan to fit my needs?

Hmm, rockybird who sometimes posts here has a lovely L home in the southwest. I don’t think she built the original house but has made some modifications to suit her needs and wishes, and it is lovely. My search skills are nil, but perhaps you can find some images on this forum.

A home like this would triple the amount of views coming into the home.

Yes, you're getting it! Give up the idea of sandwiching your main living spaces between bedrooms and take advantage of the views.

Naf_Naf : Are you using Autocad? I would like to use a program so I don't have to keep doing things by hand, but I also want something that isn't too tough for beginners. Can anybody recommend a program to me?

Best advice is to take your time! You need to go through the 'education process' on every phase of building a home.

We took two years to design our home after we bought some vacant land on a lake. This included two years of education! Went through about 30 plan iterations, which was a good education process in itself, and then found a retired architect to help us finish the design our home. Obviously, the site determines the elevations and views of the home design, so always good to have the site first. I learned a lot about elevations, setbacks, drainage, culverts, etc.

Then we had to clear the land for the home and driveway. We did this ourselves to save money. We also took this time to plant trees along the lot lines, on one side of the driveway, and in the future backyard. We did this simultaneously while working with the architect.

Another process that was helpful for me was to read a number of interior designer blogs on how to design a timeless home and layer in color. I used pinterest to create some mood boards so I could get an idea of what I liked. Designing a home takes a lot of time if you work full-time, but it really pays off to research and get it right the first time (flooring, paint, size/style of windows and doors, ceilings, moldings, fixtures, etc.). There are so many pieces it can be overwhelming and you don't have time during the build process to be 'undecided' (time is money). So any time you can spend upfront on interior design finishes, before you build, helps.

For example, do you want full overlay, partial overlay, or inset cabinet doors? What style (shaker, raised, modern, etc.)? and do you want knobs or pulls on your cabinets in the kitchen or bathrooms? And where do you want the knobs or pulls placed on the cabinets? It helps to make all these decisions before you start building, and yes, you may change your mind, but at least you'll feel better about your decisions.

I can't emphasize enough that you need to do the research and work yourself. Sometimes you get good advice and sometimes you don't. For example, I realized just before we were going to break ground that the windows were sized for an 8-foot ceiling instead of 9 foot ceilings on the first floor. Oops! I quickly resized the windows and worked with the architect to redo the windows in the plan, making sure all the windows were aligned properly in each room as well as with the doors. I also worked with the Marvin window rep to rebid the windows. Phew! The contractor and rep initially tried to talk me out of the change. But, I explained that I had done some research on what homeowners change most, and it was the size of windows in their home.

Be prepared for the building site to be a mess. Mud, snow, rain, garbage. We visited the site every. day. My job was sweeping, vacuuming (shop vacuum), and hauling garbage to the dumpster. Note that if there's garbage between the studs, the subcontractors may not clean that out before they sheetrock or install the fireplace...or clean the dried mud on the stairway before they lay the carpet.

We finished building about 2 years ago and just finished our landscape this year...and I retired!

Sally, I used Chief Architect software Home Designer Architectural. There is a learning curve on this software, but tutorials and tech support were helpful.

wiseca9 : Thank you for all that information.

Funny, we went through a lot of this already with our former Architect, right up to the building permit being denied.

In the end, he had dozens of mistakes, was 100% uncooperative, and the County wouldn't approve his building. Then he just "retired" and left us to dry. Stopped all lines of communication, left the country to go retire, and refused to return a project management payment we had made in advance, despite the fact we didn't even break ground with him. Literal theft.

We also hired an interior designer who worked at his firm. She was very expensive but we worked hard all our lives and wanted to make it right. Well, she never talked about space planning with us. Never talked about functionality. Never discussed Kitchen "zones" and having prep space seperate from cleaning space. Never stayed consistent on color palate. The list goes on. She, too, quit and we felt like we were taken for a ride.

It wasn't until after the fact did I start researching things on my own and learned what "space planning" even was.

Anyways, this was years ago and we are still devastated. It's like PTSD, just thinking of the experience. In the meantime, we've planted lots of things on our land over the years ... looking at the trees, hoping one day we could live among them...

So here I am, giving it another shot. Recouped tens of thousands of $$$ and ready to try again.

I see many people in this thread telling me to hire a professional, or that I'm wrong for doing things on my own, but how else am I supposed to react? Money doesn't grow on trees. And just because somebody is a professional, doesn't mean you'll get great service.

Anyways, I echo "trying to do as much as you can." That's why I'm here.

Sally, yes, I use Autocad and Revit for construction documents, then, Sketchup for quick 3D. Photoshop for rendering some 2D. To render my 3D I use TM. Now I am learning Lumion

Sally, we had a bad experience with two architects, but not half as bad as your experience. I know some of what you mean by PTSD! You put your trust in these people and some are absolutely great and others, well, are a learning experience. On our third try, we found a retired architect who wanted to help people build their homes and charged us a fixed price. This was a blessing and we are so grateful for his patience and expertise.

Posting here on Houzz gives you a crowd-sourcing 'education' of experiences others have gone through (do's and don'ts), not a final design. Personally, I liked the self-paced education of doing it myself. No pressure. And the crowd-sourcing is valuable because they tell you what you don't know or didn't think of. When we were ready, we did hire an architect and a part-time interior designer. I even spent $400 on a kitchen designer who was worth every penny and more. So, I don't think you are wrong to go through the education on your own. Making mistakes or changes on paper is a price I can afford!

Enjoy the journey!

wiseca9 : Did you do owner-builder, and if so, what was your experience like? Or did you hire a project management company through your architect? From what I've researched, the project managers schedule all of the different builders to come in and do their thing. He/she isn't doing any building themselves, they're just keeping the schedule going while taking a percentage for their time spent driving to the site. Since husband and I plan to be involved every step of the way, it would be ideal for us to save the cost and forgo the manager, but would like to know if that's something advisable for somebody such as myself who doesn't know much construction "lingo."

Naf_Naf : Thank you so much! I think I will learn how to use AutoCad. If I'm in this for the long haul, it's a skill I should probably know. Thank you again, you've been a blessing to me.

Edit : I may stick with graph paper and pencil until I have something close to being finished. It looks complicated :( lol

Sally, we interviewed 4 contractors and toured the homes they built, and then hired one of the contractors. The contractor has a good relationship with his subcontractors. If you do it yourself, you may not get a subcontractor when you want, causing delays. Also, the contractor knows who's reliable and who's not. (Who wants to interview 2-3 companies for each job and then select one, hoping they are good?)

We requested a copy of all invoices from the contractor. There will be differences between the bid and the invoice. For example, lumber prices went up before our contractor locked in the lumber bid, so we took a hit there. Live and learn. We were very diligent on the rest of the build to keep that from happening again.

My husband did hire someone local to do the excavation, grading, driveway, holding tank and septic. Of all the workers on our home, he was the best. Our contractor was fine with it. Also a friend of ours, who is mason, did the fireplace and exterior stone. But those 2 are the only ones we 'hired'.

Sally, I messaged you RE the software

Happy Sunday :)

I took up all your suggestions and spent ALL DAY exploring "H", "I", "T", "U" shaped homes, but it was very difficult to find something "small" in these shapes. The only small homes I saw were "L".

During the hunt, the Husband commented that he really prefers the "classic" rectangle shape because our aesthetic is "classical modern" (interior arches, lime wash walls, smooth stucco, linen textures, etc... kinda like the photos Naf shared earlier), whereas most of these "H" "T" "I" homes I came across were ultra modern, sleek and shiny, with floor to ceiling glass. In Florida, that would REALLY heat up the house.

So for now, we're keeping the rectangle.

My main goal last night was making the home smaller. Something around 1,200-1,500 sf.

I had 2 challenges: 1) Making the living space not so long and dark, without disrupting the house flow, and 2) Making the primary bathroom smaller, without creating an oddly-shaped exterior.

Then I had the idea of flipping the primary ensuite upside down, and voila! Everything fell into place! I suppose it isn't ideal to have a bathroom at the front of the home, but we're located in the middle of the woods, so who cares.

Current draft below :

1,350 sf.

1 square = 1'

Everybody's comments to me have been taken to heart.

Naf : You've been especially sweet. I kept many of your ideas into this updated version: The rotation of Bath 2, the Breakfast nook in the large Scullery, the recessed console along the main entrance, the addition of a closet in the office, etc. Thank you for showing me a better way.

Bpath : Thank you for telling me to put the Washer/Dryer into the primary closet. It just "makes sense." This is a 2-person home, so why schlep the laundry half way through the house? Thank you.

HU-918119203 : Thank you for telling me to make the roof pitch lower. Take a look below, now there isn't a ginormous amount of blank wall above, but just enough to keep things interesting.

Theresa : I made the showers even narrower again. Thanks to you, I did more research and people say anything bigger than 4x4 or 4x5 will get COLD! Will definitely have curtains in the arched showers as well.

Cpartist : Thank you for all your help. If you're able to sketch me an "L shape," now that you know all of our needs/wants for the home, I would ABSOLUTELY appreciate anything you can sketch out. It sounds like many other thought that an "L" home would better suit me. I will certainly wait for you for the first week of October! :)

I imagine a beautiful wall-mounted uplight, located between the TV and pocketed door, casting a glow up into the higher spaces. I also enjoy seeing the door squared off with the dropped ceiling & the Fridge height.

But who knows, this might change into an L house. :D

My house is traditional and u shaped.. Im sorry but you are very wrong

Cpartist : I would love to see how my plan could be turned into a U. If you are willing to help me, I'd love to see. For now, this is the best I can do

Hmm, something like this?

I think it is a mistake to build a house in Florida without covered parking. It avoids a stifling hot car, getting drenched in the daily rains, or being hit by lightning. It greatly contributes to quality of life.

Also, it seems to me that you would want your kitchen, living, and bedroom facing the lake. With a door to the outside from the kitchen area. Even if you don’t grill or go outside, it is the usual in a house these days.

Washer dryer IN the closet? That’s not what I meant, don’t do that. But have the laundry in the area of the primary suite, just not IN it.

An L doesn’t have to be sleek and modern, it can be any style. I grew up across from an L that was 1950s traditional, in fact it looked square from the front and side, the L was to the back. And around the corner from me now is a French country-looking house, L wing to the back.

You are doing well so far to loosen up your thinking. You will get there, to the house that works.

Btw, I agree with having a carport at least. I lived in Texas for many years, and really liked when I had a carport. How do they fare in hurricanes?

ulisdone : Both of us grew up without carports and don't have one currently. So that's probably why it skipped our minds. Riding around town, I'd say 75% of Floridians park outside as well. I think carports increase hurricane risk, but then again, I don't know if that's correct of me to assume. I will consider now, thank you.

bpath : Sorry I might have misunderstood then. You know what... I actually miss how my setup was earlier with an established Mudroom. Right now, it's just a big long hallway and blank wall on one side. I also miss my long counter for immediate grocery drop off. A longer counter is more multifunctional than a console.

So, maybe I should move the W/D out of the primary closet and make a mudroom again. Also slightly widen the space, so it feels like a planned room as opposed to a hall.

But now I'm venturing into the L shape, and at this rate, I really need to be patient to see if somebody can turn these ideas into a properly planned "L" or "U" shape.

Im out of town and have limited use here. Can someone please show Sally my floor plan and a link to the article in Old House Journal? Thanks in advance

The house should be designed to meet your needs and fir the site. Do not pick a form, fill it, and plop it on your site; then figure out what the outside will look like.

Just because you had a bad experience with one 'architect' * does not mean you will have a bad experience with another. Some people that design houses call themselves an architect or are referred to erroneously as an architect, but have not gone through what it take to be licensed.

Your new plan has a lot of the same issues as the old one, including having the front door open directly into your couch and having single-exposure main kitchen and living areas that are very deep and therefore will be dark. And I see new issues, like not directly connecting your interior and exterior living/cooking areas.

If you're insistent on going it alone, I think you will be far better served by looking at stock house plans online in the square foot range you want (maybe starting with bungalow plans since that's sort of what you're going for) and then tweaking them to any unique needs or wants you have. Starting from a strong foundation of tried and tested design principles is going to work out better than vague ideas and preferences that you can't be sure will actually work for you until you've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on this experiment. I'm sure folks here can recommend sites.

Trying to design a house yourself with a pencil and paper because you had a bad experience with an architect is like trying to repair the transmission on a car using scotch tape and a nail file because a mechanic ripped you off.

Separate the laundry room from the mudroom. I think you are thinking of what room the washing machine will go in, instead of planning a space for garment and linens care. And plan a space for entry and exit from the house; there is no reason at all to have laundry in that soace, it has nothing to do with entry and exit. Both spaces can have counterspace.

I have a laundry room combined with a mudroom to save on square footage. When my husband and the kids come in from outside, they wash up and will throw dirty clothes in the washer. With today's new home build prices, rooms are having to do double duty.

Also some new builds have the laundry room off the master bath which is great if you are empty nesters.

I don’t think Sally and spouse are going to strip down in the laundry room and scamper across the living room in their skivvies. Although, I could be wrong.

Here is a very rough sketch of my parents’ winter home in AZ. I actually lived there two summers with my family (while M&D stayed cool up north) and it worked well. This is not necessarily what you should do, just an idea. Every room had nice views. The front door happened to be near the fireplace. They considered adding an enclosed entry between the garage and the kitchen-dining, but never did. (They didn’t build this house, it is part of a small develoment.)

Best advice is to take your time! You need to go through the 'education process' on every phase of building a home.

Best advice on this thread! Taking your time, learning, developing a better floor plan, and being SURE of what you're doing will 1) get you a better house, 2) save money, and 3) make everything easier along the way.
I can't emphasize enough that you need to do the research and work yourself. Sometimes you get good advice and sometimes you don't.

And sometimes what's good advice for "everyone else" just doesn't work for your unique situation and/or needs.

Posting here on Houzz gives you a crowd-sourcing 'education' of experiences others have gone through (do's and don'ts), not a final design.

Yes, consider the advice you get here to be a "starting place" so you can do your own homework.

Personally, I liked the self-paced education of doing it myself. No pressure. And the crowd-sourcing is valuable because they tell you what you don't know or didn't think of.

Agree!

The only small homes I saw were "L".

I agree that Ls are likely to work best for a house with small square footage.

During the hunt, the Husband commented that he really prefers the "classic" rectangle shape because our aesthetic is "classical modern" (interior arches, lime wash walls, smooth stucco, linen textures, etc

Eh, I don't see any connection between house shape and interior finishes.

In Florida, that would REALLY heat up the house.

Okay, that's a realistic concern. Talk to your architect, builder, whoever about the possibility of extra-deep overhangs, which would shade your windows -- especially on the western side. You're already talking about a covered porch. Position it carefully so it can help with solar overload.
My main goal last night was making the home smaller. Something around 1,200-1,500 sf.
I had 2 challenges: 1) Making the living space not so long and dark, without disrupting the house flow, and 2) Making the primary bathroom smaller, without creating an oddly-shaped exterior.

Consider placing the bedroom and the office on the same side. Why? So you can get more natural light into the main living spaces. I feel like you're not getting the importance of that.
Both of us grew up without carports and don't have one currently.

If you change your mind, you can always add one later. I don't know for sure, living inland, but I do wonder if a carport is easy for a hurricane to pick up.

I don’t think Sally and spouse are going to strip down in the laundry room and scamper across the living room in their skivvies. Although, I could be wrong.

My husband and I do. Why not?

We have 'his and her' pocket offices to save square footage with built-in cabinets which are really handy.

Very nice, though not a budget choice.

Like I said, I could be wrong. 😉