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renee_nani

Is this too many appliances for our kitchen size?

last year

We are remodeling and don’t know if our kitchen is large enough for a 48”range? What do you think? Right now it’s drawn as a 36”range. I want to get a built in coffee maker so switching the double oven to a coffee maker and speed oven.

Comments (48)

  • last year

    That is the current location of the kitchen. There is a breakfast area to the right. It is not in the kitchen design.

  • last year

    Do you have any ideas?

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  • last year

    The general wisdom on these forums is that one rarely needs a range beyond 36 inches (functionally) and that the 54”+ 1200+ cfm venting hood and make up air system needed for a 48” + range can be as expensive/more expensive than the range itself. Those are facts which one can weigh oneself relative to budget and aesthetics.

    Your island does seem a bit far from your range, if I understand this diagram it is > 5 ft from stove to sink. And your fridge is quite far away as well, almost 10 ft from your range. If you look up guidance on “kitchen triangles” yours if quite large and you’ll be spending a lot of time hiking between these work point as currently configured. It may be in there and I can’t read it but a sink on the perimeter (between the stove and fridge) would help some of that challenge. Generally your sequence of activity is from the fridge, to the sink/counter for prep, then cooking, so optimal ergonomics are in that sequence without having traffic zones/walkways cross that sequence of appliance.

  • last year

    Also it looks like your island is over 5 ft wide- practically it will be challenging to clean the middle of that surface.

  • last year

    The angled corners are very dated. the layout needs a kitchen designer. the island is too deep and too far away from rhe counters

  • PRO
    last year

    Truly, a 48 inch range is not a value for anyone. The second oven is ridiculously small. You'd be far better off with a 36 inch Monogram. And an Adavantium oven as a second Both are fabulous.

    Ditch the corner ANGLES. !! Very dated. Where are you getting cabinetry and what is your fridge.......48 SZ?

  • last year

    Where are the windows in the space? I see some in that bay corner, but where are the rest?

  • last year
    last modified: last year

    I don't know about too many appliances. It does not look like an unusual amount of them marked in the plan. But how do you use your kitchen? Do you currently have a 36 inch range and wish you had the additional set of burners or griddle that a 48 inch would provide? If not, than perhaps you don't really need a 48 inch range and a 36 inch would suit you better. It can be handy for some cooks, but it a lot of stovetop for many households. A 48 inch range isn't oversized for a 20 foot wall, but it also isn't necessary if you aren't going to use that much heat. A 5x10 island is pretty big too, and can become a reach problem at that width.

    What is the current layout of the kitchen? What are you changing with the remodel?

  • last year

    The sink is in the island behind the range. I didn’t think about the fridge being so far from the sink. We were trying to make it symmetrical but based on all the comments it doesn’t seem like a good idea.

    The kitchen is in the middle of the house so there are no windows.

    We will look into getting rid of the angles.

  • last year

    Symmetry in a kitchen is hugely overrated - no one ever (or rarely) actually views a kitchen from a midpoint, full on line of sight, and even if one did, asymmetry is not really noticed much.

    Ease of function and meeting your needs of how you will actually use the space is far more important than looks.

    I was wondering why you want such a large cooktop - if you anticipate doing a lot of multi-pot cooking frequently, won't you need a larger sink?

  • last year

    It was just a 36” but when we saw the 48” monogram we really liked the look.

  • PRO
    last year

    If you like it, and you have that 50K+ appliance budget, plus the gas and ventilation upgrades, then go for it! Do get rid of the awkward catty corner placements though.

  • PRO
    last year

    If this home is for a family of 4 this is too much kitchen. Not sure why anyone needs more than 4 burners on a range unless they are running a catering company.

  • last year

    @Renee D if you like the look of 48” then go for it.


    One thing I’ve learned from this site is some people are going to consistently criticize everything they see. Some of the same ppl criticizing on here, repeat their same opinion on others’ posts. Don’t put too much weight in their pessimistic views. I would give the most weight to someone sharing an opinion that actually has a 48” range. If they say they have it and love it or hate it, then great. I’ve learned most ppl don’t cook frequently. Not near as much as my wife and I. Therefore most ppl can’t relate to the value we put on a stove. Perhaps some of the ones criticizing fall in that same group. Many others are just going to be haters.


    48 sounds super nice.

  • last year

    Thanks- I think I’ll stick with the 48” and shop around for the hood before committing.

    I’ll figure out a way to get rid of the corners as that seems to be the theme here. We have a pantry behind one of them and tried to keep the pantry space but maybe we can do a hidden pantry somehow.

  • last year

    If angles give you the best function, who cares if they're "dated"? I don't fully understand your layout and what's where so can't say anything other than it seems odd, sort of, for what seems to be large space. Where is the pantry you mention?

  • PRO
    last year

    I've put many 48 inch in client's homes, and many more 36". Hands down, nothing gets more rave reviews than the Monogram dual fuel 36.

    You don't have to own it , to know it. : ) No different than asking an experienced appliance store salesman/owner " what do you recommend, based on my budget.

    These people cook, and a cook a lot. Interestingly? People who "need" 48? ..... even in Monogram? Cook the least. It's a kitchen statement.

  • last year

    Sure you can do 48” if you’re able to do the venting.

    I don’t need that much range, but also since I don’t, I prefer having less range to clean, as drips or splatters are easier to wipe off of countertop and when I start cleaning range I usually need to clean whole thing edge to edge because of wanting it all to look same.

  • last year

    Thankfully we are in the south but will need to determine whether the venting will work.

    The pantry is next to refrigerator on the upper left.

    There used to be an entryway into the kitchen where the range is currently located. We are closing it off to get more counter space.

  • last year

    Go for the 48" range, I sure love mine! A real joy to cook with, and I don't care if I'm not using all of the burners ;) My hood is a matching 48" one and I have passive make-up air...neither broke the bank. Some people are on such weird mission to go against every single 48" range post...over and over again. Once they have made their point, why do they care? Adults are capable of making decisions without a permission from internet strangers. Good luck Renee!

  • last year

    It’s quite easy to avoid the corner cabinet situation . There are tons of options these days. It is extremely dated for sure.

  • last year

    I have no skin in the game for or against a 48" stove. However you really need to sit down with a KD or post your full plan including how it relates to the rest of the house to get a better plan. This isn't it.

  • PRO
    last year
    last modified: last year

    For what it's worth: With:

    36 range/six burner

    Full size 30 oven

    built in coffee

    Drawer micro

    48 fridge ( only because I believe that was your plan. ( four people/usually 42 is plenty)

    and...............appropriate clearances all.

    also...those far left and right corners are a great hiding spot for counter top appliances,

    PS,,,,the ONLY door base you want is sink. ( not noted as I left off....drawers are the most in convenience, functional interior space.







  • last year

    The overall budget is thebiggest ussue. You are not going to end up with a standard 100K kitchen if you go that route. Does that fit the house and neighborhood? Or would you need to be in a different house and neighborhood?

  • last year

    The one issue I have where I value the 48" cooktop is pan size. have a stock pot, or a big fry pan and it really renders at least one other burner around it useless. Pans have handles, and you don't want them sticking out. I have a griddle. It's handle no man's land and let's me use more burners than if the 6 were all together. I am also a little bit short, so managing the back burner stuff isn't super easy - especially for heavy stuff, etc.


    And I am impressed you all can read that kitchen layout - I can't really tell the appliances very well. The kitchen is quite large so the OP should be able to have whatever appliances she wants. Neighborhoods change. Housing market has made some "mid range" neighborhoods quite desireable - so only she knows if she's overimproving (and really - who cares - no one is talking about resale here)


    Get what you want / like / can afford. Decide what is important to you and check around for deals on appliances if they are pushing the budget. They are out there.


    I am also not a huge fan of the angles (have in current kitchen) but this kitchen is at least large enough that it's not crowding the design.



  • last year

    I currently have a 36" dual fuel Monogram and absolutely hate it. The gas burners are horrendous, and the spacing of the oven racks is not optimal. There is no middle position for the rack, it's either too high or too low, but not in the middle. Now, perhaps they've changed the design of the range since I purchased it, but if they haven't then I would not even consider a Monogram for a future purchase.

    Previously I had a 48" dual fuel Thermador with grill and absolutely loved it, because of the grill and the star burners. However, while the large main oven was great, the 2nd oven was really too small to be of much use. Since Thermador changed how they made the grill, I decided to go with just a 6- burner Monogram when I moved.

    Yes, I do use all 6 burners regularly. I would not have use for 8 burners, so would not spend the money for that and would rather put the extra space for it to better use. I would not buy Monogram again.

  • last year

    @just_janni that’s exactly why I’d love one. One cast iron skillet and half our cooktop is gone. It’s unfortunate.


    @vinmarks you’re 100% right. People are creating spaces they WANT, not the minimum space/appliance they need. The ”you don’t need…” comments I see on here are senseless.

  • PRO
    last year
    last modified: last year

    If you spending Mick de Giulio kitchen money $$$$ for a kitchen then make sure you have the sliding backsplash feature to hide small appliances and spices.

    I'd also not do a kitchen that didn't have a walk-in pantry.














    https://degiuliodesign.com/projects/

  • last year

    @Renee D I'm in the camp that says yes to a 48" double oven range. We just pulled one out of our kitchen but in the two years since we moved into this house, we used the smaller oven almost exclusively. As far as venting and make up air...our range, an old Wolf, had a 36" vent in a huge wood canopy and it was surprisingly adequate, though I'd have installed a much large one. You will need make up air whether you go with a 36" or a 48" range. Anything over 400 CFM now requires MUA. I don't know why people on this forum try to scare people by bringing up MUA. It needs to be done no matter what...just part of the cost of a remodel.


    If this were my kitchen, I'd do an L with a longer, narrower island so that it functioned almost like a galley. I'd keep the refrigerator in the short part of the L if that's closest to the family room. If you do a 36" range, the speed oven can act as your second oven. You can have a tall pantry cabinet at the end of the long side of the L to the left of the range.


    And do move your island closer to that long run. Five feet is too many steps between the sink and range.

  • last year

    I agree with the comments here that there are regulars on this forum who automatically tell you that a 48" range is a bad choice. Those people are on auto pilot on this topic. If you have your heart set on a 48" range, just shop carefully with respect to the 2 ovens. Some manufacturers have the smaller oven as a good size for heating up leftovers and small casseroles - this can be very useful. But other manufacturers have the 2nd oven as practically smaller than a toaster oven, and so not very useful. Ideally, the hood should be 54" wide for a 48" range, but if you have upper cabinets on either side you can get away with a 48" hood. You must pay attention to your duct that will go from the hood to the outside. It needs to be 8" or 10" diameter, not smaller, not larger. And if your climate means you can have a passive makeup air system, the makeup air should not be too difficult or expensive.

    I am not a fan of 36" ranges because its oven is larger than anything I am going to put in there, even the Thanksgiving turkey. That large oven seems a waste of energy, space, and the longer time that the 36" oven takes to heat. Yes, I can fit two things in the 36" oven at one time, but typically the two things will have different temperature requirements, so that's not really helpful.

    Have you thought about instead having a rangetop or cooktop plus separate wall ovens? To me, it is ideal to have a 36" rangetop or cooktop and separate wall ovens. Many people are constrained by space and cannot do that arrangement. Your kitchen is large enough. If you are wondering what is the difference between a rangetop and a cooktop, a cooktop has the knobs on the cooktop's surface. A rangetop has the knobs on the front, like a range without the oven. Then you can have two separate 30" wall ovens, and the cooking flexibility that allows.

    GAS RANGETOP


    GAS COOKTOP

    ELECTRIC INDUCTION COOKTOP




  • last year

    We love having a range with oven as well as a wall oven. It’s very handy and we use both often.

  • PRO
    last year

    IMO no one needs a48" range and for sure not the venting and noise that comes with it. I run a catering biz with a 36" 6 burner gas range. No anything in a corner angle unless the exterior wall is also angled and you can't change it. I do have doulble wall ovens too but i lkke certain things like yeast doughs baked in my gas oven Also 6 people often working so nice to have a choice .Even many commercial kichens do not have huge ranges . The venting will cost as much as the range and the noise will make you crzy. All base cabinets should be drawwrs and you can even get drawers under the sink now . Do not do pullouts behind doors so much hassle for no reason. I love true pullout pantries they can store so much in a small space I even have some small appliances in mine. Get a good independant kitchen designer that is how you get a space that functions for how you cook. Cabinet sales people are not ideal KDs the big issue for them is to sell cabinets and right now I think many makers are stuck with base reach in caninets and so the sales people are directed to sell them

  • last year

    You can do drawers at the sink!


  • last year

    Have you considered induction over gas? I love mine.




  • last year

    @Paul F., we put drawers under our main sink, 7 years ago. Best thing ever!

    Narrow sponge drawer holds unused scrubby sponges, still in their wrappers.

    Drawer under that, is where I store plastic bags of various sizes, tin foil, plastic wrap, wax paper, parchment paper, and some extra dish towels.

    Bottom drawer holds paper towels, Colorox wipes, dishwasher pods, and all kinds of cleaning fluids.

    You can see in the middle drawer, where the contractor cut out part of the drawer, and created a channel to accommodate the pipes.

    Didn’t want a big cavern under the sink. This is so much more convenient than pullouts under the sink, and stores everything in an easy to reach, orderly manner.


  • last year
    last modified: last year

    Hi Renee-

    I think it is important for you to write down and think through and tell your kitchen designer (and us, if you want our advice) exactly how you live vis a vis food and cooking and entertaining.

    How large is your family?.

    Doe you entertain, and if so, how often, and how large are the parties?

    When you cook for the family, do you cook for several meals at once so you really do need several burners all going at one time?

    When your family meals are prepared on a daily basis, how many people are in the kitchen making the dinner? Is it just you? You and your spouse? You and a helper?

    Do you have people cooking for you on an ongoing basis or intermittently when you entertain or for your family?

    Do you have extra sets of dishes and silver and do they need to be stored in the kitchen? (Or do you have a party closet for those things?)

    Do you really need a griddle and a grill? Could you get by with a grill pan and a griddle pan (AllClad and Lodge make both types, easy to wash, and when they get too gross, into the garbage they go, and you get new ones. Presto!)

    Do you really need a "built in" coffee-machine? Nothing lasts forever you know, and they may well not have the parts for when it breaks, because our culture unfortunately doesn't want us to fix anything, it wants us to buy another new thing. Then you'll buy another new machine that may not fit in the space in your beautiful cabinetry. Ruh-Roh.

    Ask yourself seriously if that built-in coffee machine isn't just for looks and status.

    If you cook a lot, you do need two sinks.

    If you cook a lot, you need two refrigerators. The second one can be in the pantry or the basement if there is no room for it in the kitchen.

    (I can't really read your plan, it is too small for my eyes.)

    4 feet pathway between island and counter is not too much if you are going to have two people working in there.

    I love tons of storage.

    If there isn't enough for you, you can always put a big, big pot rack over your island. If you need two racks get two. Or have one custom made. Just plan the placement carefully. Also, you really need nice-looking pots. It is a great excuse to buy a new set :)

    I hate stools at the island, there are no short order cooks in my house.

    If your dining area is a hike, you can have a pull-out cutting board somewhere over one of the drawers, and in one of the cabinets have a stepstool and pull that up to the pull-out cutting board for a glass of water if you're exhausted and your feet hurt and you literally can't make it to the breakfast room or dining room. That's what I do.

    If you entertain a lot, please think about two ovens. for example, at major holidays, one oven will have an entire bird or roast or ham, with no room for anything else, you need the second oven for all the sides. And then to warm the pies.

    Okay, we eat a lot.

    Even if you do not glut to the same extent we do, if you have a house of a decent size with a kitchen of a decent size, the next owner will expect to have two ovens, just like they will expect two sinks.

    I do not have an induction range.

    But I read something somewhere that said that they were going to make gas ranges illegal at some time in the future.

    You might want to consider induction. (Now you have 2 excuses for a new set of cookware.) They sell (on Amazon) silicone mats to put under your cookware so you don't scratch the cooktop.

    I have seen demonstration chefs online with induction cooktops with a separate burner with a little propane tank (tiny one) that gets very hot on which they place their wok. Now that gets seriously hot.

  • last year

    Yes, to me it’s all about function. If I won’t really use the larger range, that’s extra footage for counter space and utensil drawers. Or counter space for a special coffer maker, and so on. Yes, you have a lot of space, but there’s always competition for the most convenient, reach- for drawers.

    I culled a lot of utensils , and bought some new I liked better, so I wouldn’t need a crock on the counter ( I have more limited counter runs) and also so my shallow utensil drawers by the stove would have fewer items in each- very serene, things not tangled up , fewer duplicates, put each item back in its place.

  • PRO
    last year

    Concern about the clearances shown. Dead corners are pretty useless even ith expensive access hardware.

  • PRO
    last year
    last modified: last year

    @ Jeffrey R. Grenz

    Exactly why I shortened that left side, and decreased Island length.....Still bare minimum 36", depending the surrounding areas.



  • PRO
    last year

    @JAN MOYER - I see. Now I also see the fixed wall there. My concern is the walking clearances between the two fixed walls on the left side - possibly a nook corner? Otherwise not a real fan of the cabinet corner & turning the oven when it can go against the range wall.


    36" clearances should be reserved for "to be remodeled" homes.

  • last year

    I went with a 36 range when we built 4 years ago. There’s only 2 of us. But I regret not going with the 48…especially on holidays and other occasions when people are over. I love to cook, and I cook because, we’ll, it’s necessary unless you eat out all the time. I had the room, and still mad at myself for not going with that 48! And With a kitchen your size? Why not?

  • PRO
    last year
    last modified: last year

    "@JAN MOYER - I see. Now I also see the fixed wall there. My concern is the walking clearances between the two fixed walls on the left side - possibly a nook corner? Otherwise not a real fan of the cabinet corner & turning the oven when it can go against the range wall. "

    It is the SECOND full size 30" oven, and a built in coffee maker. Stacked. It really doesn't need a prime spot, when she could have a lot of drawer storage, and needs a microwave, AND venting

  • last year

    Jan, I think Jeffrey was advocating for removing the corner cabinet and replacing it with the oven/coffee thing, turning it 90°. The counter space in the corner isn't of much use since the tall cabinet would get in the way, and it would also be hard to access the upper cabinets in the corner due to the tall cabinet.

  • last year
    last modified: last year

    Renee,

    Forget abut your neighborhood the value of the homes and what some unknown buyer in the future might want. Who cares. Do what you want and can afford. If you live in a cookie cutter neighborhood (most are) . Maybe down the road if you sell your house you might find a buyer who LOVES your huge kitchen and your 48" range and buys it because it's different from all of the other houses and will even pay you a premium.

    I think by now most of us know that Patricia runs a catering biz out of her home and according to her NO ONE needs a 48" range. She also thinks subzero fridges are way overpriced and not worth the money. People who are always negative and think they are the expert need to get a life! Don't pay attention to them.

    My kitchen is very large with angles. I would have liked to make it smaller get rid of the angles but couldn't without major work moving walls etc. Sometimes you have to make concessions due to circumstances. However, the concessions are for your to make; your choice.

    I got a 36" range top and two wall ovens because of back issues, I had the space. If I get to do it again, IF, I think I will go with a 36" range top and a built in griddle which probably gets me to 48" or thereabouts. Do I need that, of course not but it would be nice for my last hurrah. Remodeling a kitchen is fraught with headaches and unexpected problems. In the end it should be an exciting and fulfilling project.

    loobab brings up lots of good questions for people to think about before embarking on a kitchen remodel.

    Good luck and let us know how you ended up. I for one like happy endings. And Happy cooking.

    Ingeborg

  • last year
    last modified: last year

    Here are my (2) 36 inch Capital Culinarian Ranges. I was torn between Wolf and Capital. I love the way my ovens work, but I have had igniter issues with the burners over the past 12 years. BTW, my granite isn't this yellow. I changed my ceiling light bulbs to LED and got rid of the yellow incandescent hue. I live in a rural woodland area so my home is modern rustic, hence my color scheme. It may not be everyone's color palette, but I assure you in person my kitchen is beautiful. This kitchen is part of a great room. I have a 14ft dining table in the dining area, and a large leather sectional, built ins and TV nearby. Anyway, I cook a lot and have parties and Thanksgiving at my house each year. My Island is 16 ft and L shape. I have a prep sink in my Island and a full size SS farm sink under a window facing the rear part of my property. It's like an episode of "Iron Chef Thanksgiving" (if there was such a thing) in my house every Thanksgiving day. I have both ovens going all day, one with the turkey. I use most of the 12 burners. I opted for all burners, but that's what worked best for me. My mudroom/laundry/doggy-human shower, toilet, sink is located through the doorway to the left. I also have a powder room on the other side of the room. Design your home to your liking and in a way that works for you. That's what I did. Now, I do have a beach condo and remodeled the kitchen with white cabinets - stainless steel - and sparkling white quartz countertops. But I digress....Best wishes on your remodel.


  • last year

    12 burners! You must have some awesome feasts. She says with her tongue hanging out...

  • last year

    It looks like your interest in the Monogtam 48" is mainly for how it looks. This means the primary function isn't going to be multiple pans preparing complex meals many times a week. In this case forget the expensive high output hood blower. Go with a 54" shell for how it looks. Hook up a 400cfm blower and 6" ducting. This'll exempt you from needing any makeup air system. It'll minimize installation cost for the ductwork. How your kitchen space looks when part of a larger open space is important for how you enjoy your home.

    The alternative to be future oriented would be a 36" Bosch 800 induction range. It has an industrial design with a clean smooth top and top level performance that can exceed gas. No indoor chemical biproduct pollution as is being found from gas.