Coming from the perspective of someone who cooks much larger, I think it depends on how you see yourself using the appliances. For the dishwasher, if you generally have the same dishes all the time, as some folks do, because you're on a schedule and have a routine, and if they'll all fit in one dishwasher drawer, then you can use the drawers as part of your dish storage and have one for dirty and one for clean--and have a way to indicate to your significant other which is which. If you'd rather put all of your dishes away in cupboards, I'd think the 18" DW or a single dishwasher drawer would make better use of space. You'll have to check out all the models to see how they best fit you and your things (the DW drawers do have a small learning curve for how to best load them, so take that into consideration). I would guess that the Miele would have more flexible space for large objects, which could be an advantage in the long run, but I might be wrong about that. As to the oven, your best bet is to check out the interior sizes of the various units you might consider. Either that, or use a 30" oven as your primary pot storage and know that it will be a "feature" on resale. Many 24" ovens have interiors so small that they earn the appellation "Easy Bake". No matter how much you don't use your oven, I'd suggest avoiding that. It would be a shame if the one time you decided to make a turkey or something if it were too big for the oven. Take your biggest pot, or if you don't have one, a disposable roasting pan, or a cookie sheet, when you go to look at ovens. You should be able to find a small oven that will take a moderate sized pot/bird. For functionality, I could still recommend the 30" oven (you could reuse the one you have), on the off chance you might want to use it. An alternative that makes a lot of sense for using the space wisely would be to buy a new 30" oven that has a good warming function, as well as "proofing" and slow cook. Then you'd have one appliance that would do everything you need, and in the end save space. You might also save space by buying a range instead of components. The thing about dishwashers is that you can always save out some dishes for later, or do some by hand. If you get too small an oven that's all you've got.

We recently purchased a 800 series Bosh DW to replace the low end whirlpool the builder installed. I am sure there are many different brands/models of DW that will work for you, I only have experience with the low end model whirlpool that the builder installed and our new Bosh. (This is not to put down the whirlpool, I am sure their higher end stuff is very different from the low end model we had) At first my wife mentioned that she didn't think it would hold as much as the old one, like you, we got the impression it was a little smaller inside, then we realized that we could completely remove the silverware box that sits in the bottom taking up room because the DW has a 'third rack' for silverware in the very top of the unit -- this now gives us (I think) more room, and we have been able to fit as much or more into the unit as we could with the older unit. I think the Mieles and Boshs both have this rack - I'm not sure about other brands, it seems to be becoming a popular feature -- if you don't like the big silverware box in the bottom then I would definitely look for this. It works very well in our Bosh. As you mentioned adjustable tines, the Bosh has tines that will completely lay flat for larger items and the middle rack is adjustable up or down by several inches -- good for having lots of pots in the bottom or taller glasses on top. We have kids and have lots of little plastic cups - they do not seem to dry very well - there is supposedly a version of jet dry that works better with plastic but it isn't a big enough problem that I have tried that yet - not an issue for you however as you mentioned you don't have any plastic. Now, the reason I am writing this -- one of the first tasks we used the DW for was to wash about 5 loads of old china and some stainless steel pots and pans that had been left in an abandoned home - with food still on the china plates and burned into the pans -- these dishes had sat almost one year with the food now totally dried onto the plates. The pans (SS) had food burned into the bottoms and had been used on an old electric coil stove so the bottoms of the pans were black - with food that had burned in over the years of use. If I were going to have to clean these manually we would have just tossed the whole lot - but since we had a new DW we thought we would run them through, fully expecting to have to hand wash them after the DW. We threw all kinds of assorted china, and lots of pottery pieces as well into the DW with no regard to whether or not the piece was DW safe or not. When I opened the DW after the first load -- WOW -- the china sparkled like it had been hand cleaned by the most careful of butlers - every piece shined. I wish now that I had taken before and after pictures. It repeated this performance for about 4 loads of china. Then the SS pots/pans. I remind you these had cooked on leftover food that had been sitting for nearly a year, and they came out *almost* spotless, even the bottoms of the pans that had been totally black in color were shiny silver now. I took some advice from others on this forum and purchased some Barkeepers Friend and the few tough spots that were left on the pans cleaned up perfectly using a small scrubber and the BKF. The pans are literally like new! I am sure that other high end DW's could and would do the same, but needless to say we are happy with our purchase. Our Bosh DW is model# SHX8ER55UC/52 We used finish Powerball All-in-One and finish DW Salt finish Jet Dry rinse aid Good luck on your decision! This post was edited by jw1844 on Sat, Jun 8, 13 at 14:26

Thanks so much everyone for your great responses! I'd started responding to each of you when I last wrote (starting w/ the "oh no I wish you hadn't told me they're coming out w/ a new line" post) but then kids called and I never got to finish responding to the rest of you! My apologies... antss - those crate & barrel bowls seem perfectly fine. Thanks for relieving my fears! numbersjunkie - I wish! I can't pull the cabinets out because between the floor space being small enough and there being doors on either end of the long countertop, there just isn't room. But that would be a great idea otherwise! monicakm - trust me - I'd love to be able to get the Kitchenaid! From reading everyone's posts, I'm thinking or at least *hoping* that the problem you've had is more w/ Bosch and less w/ Miele (?) re. platters, baking dishes et al. I don't feel you're being pushy myself just because I made it clear how much I really wanted the Kitchenaid - FYI. You're just trying to help. ;) But like I was saying to numbersjunkie, I can't pull the dishwasher out more because there's a door that when opened (a fear I have - of it happening w/ too much force) will hit the dishwasher if it's even a little further out. It would also make it so that the door could never be opened fully and flush w/ counter to let in all the light from the mudroom/back yard...that would drive me batty. You do have me wondering though: can the Miele's 2nd rack be raised up like the Kitchenaids do? Hope so! carol jk - that's odd. Our water here is soft on its own so hopefully I can just disable the water-softening option. antss - it's funny...when you wrote "some people like the neat orderly loading of a Euro and others prefer the ability to load chaotically in an American tub" I thought that oh dear - I'm the chaotic messy one - very NOT Type A - haha! I want to be as chaotic as I please (w/ option of being orderly of course, when I decide to wear that hat as I do on occasion!) but I think I can still be chaotic w/ the Miele dishwasher, within reason (if that's not an oxymoron)! For example, I'm HOPING I can just lay the flatware on the top tray on occasion, knowing I can't put as many pieces in. I've seen that work for other people in other dishwashers. It all gets clean just the same unless there's heavy soiling. For me the highest priority is unfortunately that it fit in the space, then the second is that it is a reliable machine that's built to last, the third is that it's very good at cleaning very soiled/stuck-on dishes. Not sure where efficiency of space/flexibility of baskets falls in line but probably somewhere soon after! As for the new models not coming out anytime soon...I won't bother holding out. :( fauguy -Thanks for answering those q's! I don't have china/crystal that I use but I do use wine glasses. Can typical wine glasses take a lot of heat - e.g. same setting as pots & pans or cheese/starch? If they can take that kind of heat, I wouldn't have to do two separate loads. I guess if the new models end up being WOW FANTASTIC better, I could sell my current model and pay for the upgrade that way you know? Meanwhile I wouldn't waste time waiting around. Also, if the upgraded racks can fit into an older machine I could always just purchase those but who knows. Not all that important for now. whirlpool trainee/Alex - Thanks for the press release link! I love the lights, but most of all the intensive option. I could care less about the extra silent cycle having a separate kitchen however if it saves on water and electricity more then it would be a nice overnight option on occasion. buffalotina - good to know! I can't BELIEVE the off-the-charts excellent reviews everywhere I look. I don't know if I wrote this earlier or not but the bottom line is that if I had to get new bowls or a better-fitting but lesser-cleaning dishwasher, guess which one I'd choose? Bowls don't cost THAT much! And I'm sure they'd fit one way or another. Plus, I noticed the tines are surprisingly flexible - not that I'd rely solely on that. Alex - That video won't load properly for me for some reason. I eventually got it so that I could scroll slowly through stills but no video. Got the gist of it though, thanks! fun2cook - I've asked my contractor 3x now and he just won't recess the Kitchenaid due to it being an external wall w/ only 2x4 studs. And I explained above why it can't stick out, darn it. As for getting a dishwasher in black, apologies in advance for the following rant-of-sorts: I think black's generally a very nice idea and can look very good. I wonder though if it would fade into the background when surrounded by white cabinets and w/ nothing else being black (?). We have a white range and microwave and there's no space for wall ovens. I haven't had a dishwasher in years (so excited!) but the last one I had years ago (and for several years) was black and I wanted to try something different and new-to-me. I'm doing the integrated "cabinet door" look for 2 reasons: one being that it's trendy in the fun sense (I've always been behind in the times or unable to get the latest thing so that's new for me)! :) The other reason: my new stainless countertop (in 1913 period style if all works out well) will sit above the DW, w/ new stainless fridge being on opposite wall. The way that whole wall is set up in conjunction w/ the rest of the room is such that balance seems to be required more than usual. So again I'll have two walls opposite each other that will have noticeably stainless elements so hopefully no other distractions (just white cabinets and white farm sink and marble subway tile backsplash) and then the other two walls will just have white w/ no stainless (the white stove w/ white microwave and white 1913 cabinet above). So while things will be overwhelmingly if not annoyingly white, it's a small room and there will be some balance overall - and then there will be black accents from the original hardware on the cabinets but they will be relatively subtle. The true color in the room will come in through wall paint and accessories. It's the best I could come up w/ for staying w/ painted original cabinets and not having a whole lot of money - or my own personal designer! fauguy - I do know dishwashers come in white, thanks. I could get a white DW but that wouldn't be as attractive I don't think. I love combining "modern trends" or "upadated looks" with period-appropriate (not something we've always gotten in the past!), which the integrated cabinet door look offers. Plus it just helps w/ the overall symmetry of the lower cabinets under the counter. It can also help when dealing w/ a small, dark, easily-cluttered-looking kitchen. gwentm - you're so lucky your DW will go on an interior wall! Jealous! It's a GREAT dishwasher...really good reviews and at such a better price for their top of the line model. I suppose there's some validity w/ the argument that K.A. appliances aren't built to last as long as the Mieles but on the other hand, as technology advances, I might want to change out my long-lasting Euro dishwasher before the 20-year mark has arrived, anyway! ;)

I have the drawers and I like the drawers. One drawer is pretty nice and I mostly just use the one (except we have issues with prompt unloading hehe). I agree that with a new baby, small DWs are very handy because you can run more loads without wasting water running half empty loads. A drawer holds more than half a regular DW. I'm not sure how well the 18" ones compare. I suspect they wash a wee bit more than a drawer. I bet they are a bit cheaper, too. The 18" would have the advantage of being able to do the occasional extra large piece and while some folks can wash cookie sheets in drawers, I sure can't. What are the widths of the cabinets by the sink? I still think an 18" would look better than a drawer in your situation and the cabinet retrofitting would be easier--no worries about what to put UNDER the DW. Getting some functional storage under a single drawer can throw off even a cabinet maker. On the other hand, a drawer is easier for a pregnant woman to load, but as you've already got your division of chores worked out, no need to worry about that! Here is a link that might be useful: the pictures!