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Woodworking Flooring

Refinishing floor - is this acceptable?

last year

last modified: last year

I'm getting my red oak floors refinished to a mid-tone brown stain and there have been a lot of issues. They had to redo it once already due to the floor having a lot of scratches and uneven stain due to accidentally water popping a section of the floor due to some miscommunication between the boss and the workers. They've finished sanding and staining a second time and are supposed to come tomorrow to put poly but I'm still noticing some scratch marks from what appears to be not sanding smooth enough. I'm not a flooring pro. In your opinion, is this acceptable? Some of the workers were saying that we should have water popped the floor and that's why the finish isn't as nice but this was never explained to us beforehand. I also don't want the stain to be really dark on the floor which I've noticed happens with water popping due to it opening the grain of the wood more.

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Comments (6)

Katie S
Original Author
last year
@verbo there's no flash in these photos and they're taken about a foot and a half away
M V
last year
last modified: last year
Personally, I don't think that looks right. We refinished our own floors in two different homes and the only places our floors look like anything close to that, is under our kitchen table, 8 YEARS AFTER with did them

We have 4 kids and a large dog.

It looks like they skipped grits when sanding or didn't use each one long enough.

I realize the "industry standard" might say it's ok from a certain distance, but if that's ok, I'm glad we were able to do our own. I can get down a few inches from mine, shine a flashlight and not see swirl marks.
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RE: "Well thats tough. Is this just some joe blow guy off craigslist or a professional company? I think either way you kinda need to give him the opportunity to resolve these issues. Point out Everything to him. If hes a true professional he'll fix everything and make things right." It's a pro business with good references. I think this one may have been subbed out though :( I had another reputable company come in to take a look last night and they too thought it was a pretty bad job. He spotted a lot of dishout, some chatter, oil splatter, no filler used, areas with finish missing, etc. Turns out I'm not crazy at least. His thought was that the equipment needs calibration. Although the other business was willing to attempt a fix, they too thought it would be best to first talk it through with the original installer (and I agree). I'm definitely going to talk it through with the original installer first--- the owner seemed like a good guy from the get-go and I bet he'll want to make it right. I just wanted some second opinions before I talk business. It's a bummer either way because it puts a serious hold up in a series of renovations I am working on. And, although I thought I was getting a new floor, even if he sands it flat my new floors are already that much thinner from the re-sand.
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Thanks everyone for the feedback. I am underwhelmed by our newly refinished floors, so wanted a reality check on whether my expectations were out of line, or if the job is mediocre. They also don't match the old oak floors very well-- has anyone been able to get a good match to the old without having to refinish the old at the same time?
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"Seems like a whole lot of wasted work ... could have been avoided" Seems like? Prices go up unneccesarily with this type of wrecklessness, on what are already expensive projects for consumers. I wonder how many floor layers the homeowner has lost for future sanding, to sand out these dips and such. Would love to know if the GC was trying to save money with his sub selection and what made him think he was good for the job to begin with. What criteria for the job he was meeting. Maybe they need to replace it now and give you the brand new floor you paid for. Installed by a professional. Don't accept it unless you are satisfied with your purchase. It's too bad and a catch 22 that we have to pay into these things before we see them. And good luck resolving and living thru all this! P.S. Who is paying for the expense of your moving out each time this is re-done? I hope it is not costing you more money to have to do this, just the inconvenience. This post was edited by snookums2 on Sat, Sep 13, 14 at 14:48
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Comments (49)
So long as the wood has 3mm or MORE of solid hardwood sitting above the tongue, that floor can be refinished. Yes, engineered hardwoods are HARDER to refinish. They often have 5-15 layers of Aluminum Oxide on top of them. That is a VERY difficult product to remove. By the looks of the stain application, it is possible that NONE of the finish came off. Which is why it looks like "paint". A high-end FLOORING professional like Johnson Flooring Co. could have gotten the job done. It would have taken several days LONGER to complete because of the existing finish. Once the wood was completely free of finish (it can take 2-3 TIMES the effort/time/money to remove factory finishes) the stain/finish application would have been identical to solid hardwood. A "helpful guy" with plenty of renovation skills (including INSTALLING floors) would be hard pressed to deal with a factory finish. He may have enough skill/knowledge to tackle a site finished hardwood, but the factory finish is what caught him unaware. At this point, you owe him nothing. He will "eat" the time and money he spent trying to deal with this project. It will be the price he pays for learning how NOT to deal with a factory finished floor. If you had PAID him, he would be responsible for correcting his mistakes at his own cost. If you do NOT pay him, he is NOT responsible for PAYING for anything. That's normally where the courts go with something like this. If you PAY for a service you are ENTITLED to the service. If you do NOT pay for it, you do not have any expectation for REIMBURSEMENT. See where I'm going with this? The money that was ear-marked for him, will go to the next professional who will have to tackle this floor. And that's the way it should be. His "cost" for learning this lesson is that he doesn't get paid for for many days worth of work and hundreds of $$ in materials. That's the price he pays. Your price is the price it costs to bring in a real professional - which is what was necessary in the first place. You are not punished financially. Just the time spent waiting for a handy man to muck up floor refinish.
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stars26
last year
Not acceptable.

I just had my floor done and looks nothing like this.

I'm sure the gurus will chime in soon, but I don't see how is this acceptable.

And no, you don't have to stand 36" away, I don't know where Verbo got that standard from.

This is how my floors look with just 1 coat of Loba Supra 2k AT.
PRO
G & S Floor Service
last year
NWFA standards floor inspection is from a standing position 5' and 2' back. If, the swirl is still visible under stains and finish. It is not acceptable.

Clear coats do not count. You can do a final cut with 40 grit and not see any sanding marks.

Floors that have high/low spots and gaps causes a lot of challenges to get a perfect sanding. Junk and debris from the gaps come loose and gets caught under the sand paper causing unwanted scratches. Foot traffic carrying outdoor debris causes issues. Electrical wire clippings, splinters, fasteners, leggos, pet food, you name it. If not caught in time, stuff gets under the sanders and ruins a refinishers day. Nothing worst than doing a final cut only to have debris find its way under the sandpaper causing deeper unwanted scratches.
Timothy Winzell
last year
last modified: last year
The NWFA specifies a floor be inspected from a standing position, using normal lighting and viewing angles.

You can read here - Page 71

https://www.oldewoodltd.com/uploads/nwfa-sand-finish-wood-floors-2016.pdf

So it's not from 18" or 30". The number I've seen quoted is 50", which is consistent with "standing position".

Wood floor is refinished by humans so an expectation of perfection is illogical. What's logical and reasonable is to have the floor look acceptable from a standing position.

My standard is to shoot for 100% perfect and accept 95% or so. This can be hard to quantify exactly, but suffice to say that I factor in how good the floor is overall, the severity and location of flaws, and the likelihood of being able to repeat the finishing of a floor that might be deemed less than perfect, and have it turn out better. It's almost certain there will be flaws (I've never seen a perfect floor). The aim is to achieve an acceptable result, with the knowledge that the floor isn't a priceless antique, and that it will be used, dented, dinged, scratched and worn over time.

Since your finish isn't applied yet, I'd probably ask the finishers to hand sand the little orbital sander scratches on the nosing and restain. It would be foolish to try to address the faint buffer scratches as the result would probably end up worse, making it necessary to do a third time.

Short answer: Take standard zoom pictures from a height of 50" and evaluate.
Timothy Winzell
last year
Stars26 comparison to their own floor is not relevant to this floor. Natural/clear finished floors don't accentuate minuscule scratches the same way a stained floor does. We charge LESS for natural color because it requires LESS work.

In addition, there's a relationship on how smooth a floor is sanded and how it absorbs stain. Finishers can sand floors so smooth that they come out too light. When sanding it with the proper grit to achieve the desired color, one can end up leaving tiny scratches in the floor.

I've seen too many instances, both here and in real life, where someone found their floor finish unacceptable, and refinishing came out worse. Quite often it has to be done more than twice and owners wish they had left the original result alone. This is in cases where there were minor cosmetic flaws, not functional shortcomings or a fatal cosmetic flaw in an unfortunate spot.

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