Your portable induction unit is nothing like a true induction cooktop. Everyone who did what you're thinking wound up pretty much just using the induction cooktop and not the gas.

Where are you building?

For layout, you want to not cross zones and want to go from Ice (fridge and pantry) to water (sink) to stone (prep next to sink) to fire (your cooktop) Note that in your layout, you'd have to cross your cooktop after taking food out of the fridge.

Can windows be changed still?

Do your kids or hubby help in the kitchen? If so, you want 48" for aisles between island and perimeter counters (That's counter to counter, not cabinet to cabinet)

Why the angled corner on the island?

Also not related but that living room seems a bit small compared to the other rooms.

We just put in a super-Susan in our 36" corner cabinet and I'm blown away by how much storage is accessable in there. And we also put in a prep sink after a long debate. We've been in the house about 3 days and already appreciate the extra sink. :)

Thank you for your thoughts!

Induction: I've read this here a hundred times and think it's one of those lessons I'll just have to learn for myself. I figure even if I use the induction 99% of the time it'll be nice to have more burners that I can access at the same time, plus I have some specialty pans that won't work with induction. (As well as some non specialty pans but those are easy to replace.)

Location: I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. Area of the country? Southwestern Virginia.

Crossing zones: This hasn't been an issue in my current kitchen but I'm willing to correct it in the new one.

Windows can be changed.

Family: they do help in the kitchen (although not a ton) but I generally put helpers on the outside of the island. I will keep 48" in mind, though, thanks. I'm curious why you note that it's counter to counter instead of cabinet to cabinet. It looks like that's only a 2" difference? I guess 46 vs 48 might make a difference but I want to make sure I'm not misunderstanding.

The angled corner is to make that corner easier to traverse, at the recommendation of my kitchen designer. We really like it and will probably do the same in the new kitchen.

Living room: it's (slightly) bigger than our current LR which has served us well for years. If it makes a difference there will not be a TV in the LR.

Unless you wok cook just get a 36” induction cook top. will be cheaper and you won’t regret it. just look at what has the best hob sizes for your cooking - we ended up with miele (before the new flex zone ones) because it had 2 9” and an 11” hobs so worked great for 2 12” and a 14” skillet at same time. we took our pans to the store to see what fit haha.

is that a bump out for the fridge? can that move? my favorite layout is like yours with stove and sink on seperate walls and prep sink on island. it seems like you could keep basically the same layout if you push the fridge towards dining room and add the prep sink. you’d still have to cross zones a bit but with window placement and entry way not sure what you can move onto that wall other than ovens there.

I do use a wok. I'm impressed you can fit 2 12s and a 14, I definitely cannot on my current 36" range! I'm going to have limited options for "trying it at the store" because we don't have any high end appliance dealers nearby.

Yes, it's a bump out for the fridge. It could move towards the DR but not the other way since it's sized to fit the washer/dryer on the other side of it.

I’d consider closing the entry to the kitchen from the foyer to minimize traffic flow. The niche in the foyer might be better used to enlarge the closet too.

I have no problems using my wok on my induction cooktop.

Here is an idea switching to a 36" range.

This is very similar to my kitchen layout in that I take food out of the fridge, bring it to the sink to wash, and then turn the corner and prep under the window next to my cooktop. I will say, that it's turned out to be the best kitchen layout I've ever had and makes preparing food so much more enjoyable.

@cpartist -- I think that's the original kitchen. The other picture is the proposed new kitchen. :)

I was just about to say that I love your current kitchen! I wish I had the aisle space to increase the distance from 36" to 42" like yours. I wouldn't go to 48" though - I think that starts to be become a long reach from the counters to the island. My husband is a fabulous cook and baker. We have lived in 2 houses with induction ranges and we hated them. Converted one of them to gas and never regretted it. Six-burner gas cooktop works perfectly for us, but it's probably what you're used to. Depending on the height of your household members, I would suggest raising the countertops to 38". I'm not even that tall and 36" is too low for me, and it about kills my 6'6" husband.

Other option is to rotate the island 90 degrees. then if fridge and stove are on same wall you have a nice work triangle. might make island smaller though.

also i think most of the current 36” induction cooktops hold 3 large pans well. i have extra room so might be able to do 3 14” ones but haven’t tried as only own 1! your set up should give you plenty of space. we considered it but our kitchen is much too small, and now we love induction so are happy we didn’t. i still miss gas for heating up tortillas though. :)

@cpartist -- I think that's the original kitchen. The other picture is the proposed new kitchen. :)

Oops you're correct. The issue then is the fridge is cutting the run of counter that could have the sink, dw and fridge.

Funny, the original plan called for the island to be turned 90 degrees and I intensely disliked it. Probably just because my current island is oriented the way it is, but I like it and don't want to change. :p

I was wrong, it's a 30" range that doesn't fit multiple pans. Although front to back is the problem...do 36" cooktops have the burners offset?

I know I'll probably regret it, and I promise to come back and update in five years so y'all can gloat, but I'm just not ready to commit to induction. At the same time I do have concerns about indoor air quality with gas so I'd like to use induction at least some of the time.

@LH CO/FL is there a thread with your floorplan/pics?

We do have a super susan. The problem is the width of the opening. Or maybe the problem is that I'm trying to put things in there that are really too big. Like the 14" wok. :p

I had a 48" Wolf gas range in my previous house and chose a 36" Wolf Induction range for the house we built last year. Really happy with the induction. Much easier to cook some dishes because I can control the power/heat much more quickly. It is so much easier to clean and keep clean, specially when other people in the house do some cooking!

I do have 2 built-in gas (propane) burners in my outdoor kitchen. I always like having outdoor burners for really messy/smelly cooking!

Just to echo what others have said -- I, too, thought I wasn't ready for all induction, so went with a 36" dual unit from Bertazzoni -- two induction hobs and 3 gas hobs -- ended up using the two induction hobs unless I just had to use the gas (3rd pan/pot). Ultimately the bertazzoni induction hobs broke and I replaced the unit with a 36" Wolf induction cooktop and would never switch back to gas.

Not a chance I'd switch back to gas.

Funny, the original plan called for the island to be turned 90 degrees and I intensely disliked it. Probably just because my current island is oriented the way it is, but I like it and don't want to change. :p

I didn't change the orientation of the island I just switched cooktop and sink/DW.

I was wrong, it's a 30" range that doesn't fit multiple pans. Although front to back is the problem...do 36" cooktops have the burners offset?

I have the Bosch 36" induction cooktop which I love. It has 4 burners on the corners and a larger burner centered.

At the same time I do have concerns about indoor air quality with gas so I'd like to use induction at least some of the time.

Just remember with gas, you do need a better vent and might also need makeup air.

I'm planning the same thing with a 4 burner induction and 2 burner gas. What people prefer to cook with is very personal and I think the 2 burner gas will be good for overflow and some specific pots.

I agree with closing up the entry to the kitchen. Walkway width is another personal choice. I like 45 to 48" with multiple people in the kitchen. I think you wouldn't need the angled corner if you have wider walkways.

For corner cabinet ideas, I thought this thread laid out some options. https://www.houzz.com/discussions/2472094/corner-cabinet-space-calculations-and-analysis

Other suggestions I've seen are to make the corner cabinet a trash and recycling pullout. And the most interesting one I've seen https://i.imgur.com/ApOBUuP.gifv

@cpartist I was referring to @lharpie's suggestion: "Other option is to rotate the island 90 degrees. then if fridge and stove are on same wall you have a nice work triangle. might make island smaller though."

AFAICT your plan is on the current kitchen layout which I seem to have confused a lot of people with. :o

The bottom picture, without sinks, is what I'm working with.

"I'm curious why you note that it's counter to counter instead of cabinet to cabinet. It looks like that's only a 2" difference? I guess 46 vs 48 might make a difference but I want to make sure I'm not misunderstanding."

It's probably more like a minimum of 3" difference since the normal counter overhang is 1.5" -- on each side of the aisle.

Note I said "minimum". Aisles are measured to/from the items that stick out into the aisle the farthest, not cabinet-to-cabinet. Refrigerators, ranges, counter overhangs, and cabinet doors/drawer fronts are the most common items that stick out past cabinets. The 24-inch depth shown for cabinets on floor plans only includes the cabinet box. It does not include the doors/drawer fronts that add another inch or so (except inset) nor do they include the cabinet hardware (pulls, knobs). Over the top of them all is the counter which overhangs the cabinet box by approximately 1.5". So, where there are no other items sticking out into the aisle, the cabinet + counter depth is 25.5".

Then there are ranges, which stick out around 3 to 4 inches beyond the cabinet boxes (depending on the range) -- they're 27" to 28" deep.

Refrigerators stick even farther out. Standard-depth stick out around 10 to 12 inches beyond cabinet boxes (35" to 26" deep, including required air clearance behind the refrigerator). Counter-depth stick out 6 to 7 inches farther than cabinet boxes (30" to 31"). True built-ins can stick out up to 3" past cabinet boxes (24" to 27" depth).

.

Regarding recommended minimum aisle widths:

• One-person work aisle (and always one person): 42"
• Two or more people working in the aisle (even occasionally): 48"
• Work aisle + major path for traffic: 54"
• There shouldn't be any seats on a work aisle.

Do you have a fully-measured layout of the space(s) under consideration for changing?

See the Featured Answer of the "New to Kitchens? Read Me First!" thread for more information.

Here is a few ideas and a concept sketch (not to be taken literally) that may improve the layout or at least generate better ideas.

Replace the door to the outside with windows in the living area for more flexibility in furniture layout.

Eliminate one of the passages from the entry to the rest of the house.

Food for thought.

Also the piano location give the pianist a better opportunity to see his audience or escape out the front door in case nobody likes his playing.

@Buehl "It's probably more like a minimum of 3" difference since the normal counter overhang is 1.5" -- on each side of the aisle."

I see what you mean, thanks. I was eyeballing my current kitchen. I just measured and my counter only overhands by 3/4"

The refrigerator will be inset so it will only overhang by 6" as though it were a CD model.

My current kitchen has 42" between the wall and the island which has been plenty for us even with multiple people (we are all slim) but the fridge on the other side has less space and does turn into a choke point. I will carefully consider the aisle there.

I've requested a dimensioned drawing.

IKWYM about seats in a work aisle! My little kids will try to bring a stool into the kitchen side to work and I always send them back around to the other side of the island. Both because then there's a stool in the way in the kitchen and because they're sitting on a stool and don't have an overhang of counter and will make (more of) a mess. They're pretty well trained now.

@Mark Bischak, Architect thanks for your suggestions. I truly appreciate you taking the time to sketch them out. The windows rather than door is a good question. I am set on an island (rather than peninsula) and keeping its orientation. It's my current configuration and I know I love it. Your entry changes are intriguing, I'll need to think on that.

It would be helpful if you posted the layout you are planning. you seem to have very set ideas (which is fine!) but perhaps we could help you refine it. right now everyone is just guessing.

That's my problem, I don't have a layout yet. I have the blank slate in my OP into which I want to put a double wall oven, 4 burner induction & 2 burner gas cooktops, single bowl main sink, and dishwasher on the perimeter and a prep sink in the island.

Does that help any?

That explains it! Mine has 10" doors so a significantly smaller opening. I really like it except that I like to keep big stuff in it (like a 14" wok) and it's tricky to get in and out. A larger cabinet like yours would fix that.

Here's a copy with dimensions:

Well, this is new for me. I will be presenting a kitchen design scheme to my client cevamal here on Houzz. cevamal is the OP via this thread. cevamal knows to expect this. I'm doing it this way because she values inputs from the Houzz community, and I kind of enjoy the opportunity. Besides, I wanted to address some of the suggestions and ideas which have arisen here.

First things first: while cevamal labeled me an architect, I take pains to clarify that I am not, as architects are licensed to practice as "registered design professionals." It's an important legal distinction and I would be breaking the law to represent myself as an "architect." I used to be a licensed architect in the state of Washington, but let my license lapse when I started Skia Design LLC in 2001. It wasn't in my interests—or the interests of the clients whom I intended to serve—to maintain the license.

Also, I felt the need to clarify cevamal's statement in the OP that [I don't] do the kitchen layout. I told cevamal, "Sorry if I miscommunicated that. It’s just that I won’t necessarily get into the full-blown details. For example, I will draw and recommend drawer cabinets and suggest specific uses for them, but you may prefer open shelves or door cabs with slide-out shelves. I recognize that what I provide is usu. a starting point for you to flesh out details with your cabinet designer." We're all good on that score, and cevamal and spouse are great clients! But hey, if someone reading this was interested in my providing design services, I wouldn't want them to think I limit myself in this way. Sure, I'll design the kitchen to whatever degree the client wants, but the reality is that, with the vast majority of my residential designs, done for your average Joe or Josie and not the money-is-no-object set, the kitchen layout tends to be just a starting point. That's fine by me. I just want to make sure that I provide a solid starting point, addressing and reflecting all of the clients' basic needs and desires, and which also integrates well into the overall plan.

OK, as for what you see attached, I consider this a first draft, so comments on colors and materials are unnecessary at this stage. By way of addressing some comments from various contributors above, I will provide some design rationale for what you see, while some of the rationale has already been provided by cevamal, both in posts above and in direct communication with me.

First, the ceilings are 9'; no vaults. cevamal and fam have lived in an 8' ceilinged home for many years now and are looking forward to 9', but they have no desire or use for vaults. They also want a lot of natural light. I always aim for this in my designs, except for the rare bird who wants to live in a dark home (I don't get it, personally, but my job is to serve the client and not my own desires, so my design approach follows the lines of "informed consent.") Anyhoo, with 9' ceilings and maximizing natural light, I typically go with taller windows and window head heights at 8' AFF, so that's what you see here. And with this arises the question of how high to the top of the cabinets? 7' is standard, and 8' for taller ceilings (which is what I've drawn) but does the client necessarily want the higher cabinets, which then necessarily require a step stool for access to the upper shelves? TBD. Then there's the question of whether to drop a soffit over the cabinets, or leave the tops open? I'm good either way, usu., though some designs beg for going one way or the other. Also, TBD.

As to “crossing zones,” that’s a rule which I find easily broken. I’m with cevamal on this. My kitchen is similar to cevamal’s in this regard. We’ve lived in it for 16 years and wouldn’t have it any other way. Why? For us, anyway, the premium is placed on having the main sink with a view out a window. My wife and I would never tolerate having a sink facing a wall just so as to follow a “rule.” One stands at a sink for a much, much, longer time than a cooktop in daily living, and we enjoy looking at our view outside. Admittedly, in an L with an island layout like this the main sink could go in the island, which I have no objection to and have designed any number of times, but in this case I would tend to keep the cooktop on the non-windowed wall, natural light being a premium. True, one could open it up by using a downdraft vent, but downdraft vents are on the whole less reliable so I stay away from them if I can.

There was a comment about venting which seemed to give the idea that it was important specifically (or only?) when using gas cooktops. The reason to provide adequate venting is not exclusive to gas cooking but rather more broadly the humidity and particulates given off from any type of stovetop cooking. No need to get into technical details here. There are plenty of online resources available to understand the issues.

cevamal originally requested a 12” cabinet/space between a 4-eye induction cooktop and a 2-eye gas. We discussed the problems with that approach already, so the two are combined in one cooktop area.

I did push the fridge closer to the dining area than the initial plans cevamal posted to allow necessary room for the cooktop area.

There were a couple suggestions to close off the opening between entry and kitchen. My reasoning for the opening is threefold: 1) the kitchen is the heart of most homes, where most daily family activity takes place, so why not have the direct access? Why make it so a guest or one of the family members has to loop around?; 2) I have found, from my wife’s and my experience as parents, that complete loops in a floor plan can be a source of great fun. cevamal and I both have appreciated this aspect of family life in a home. Sure, there’s a circular route around the island, but that’s not meant for that kind of fun! The functional space between island and perimeter counters/cabinets is sacrosanct to the worker(s) there. I or our sons step into my wife’s space when she’s cooking and we hear her shout, “Get out of the kitchen!!”; 3) natural light (again)! I will find any opportunities to get the light bouncing all around. If for whatever reason cevamal wants to not have a doorway (cased opening) there, I will push instead for some kind of glazed, “borrowed light” design.

The 45° on the island: cevamal likes it and wants to replicate. I have no objection. I also reflect that with a diagonal corner cabinet. I told cevamal: “when I designed my own kitchen and addressed the questions of the corner cabinet (diagonal vs. square?; lazy susan or super susan?; expensive hardware or not?) I did an analysis of functional area and determined that a diagonal cabinet with really deep drawers provided significantly more storage than lazy or super susans would provide, without the attendant hassles. It’s much easier to access everything you put in there. Plus, you get a little more counter space (we keep our large grain mill tucked in the back corner). I like the fancy hardware which provides for pulling out the entire contents, and it probably beats out my solution in terms of useable storage, but I didn’t like the price point, or the fact that you have to pull everything out just to get one item.”

I added, “Besides the storage rationale, I think it safe to say for us (me, wife, both adult sons) that corner is basically the prime real estate where everyone wants to do most of their work. I think this is in no small part owing to the diagonal, as it provides a softer (for want of a better term), almost nestling, feeling which the 90° corner just doesn’t. Also the larger work space is a benefit, too.”

cevamal’s current position is: “I'm unsure about the corner cabinet. I do like my super susan and wider doors, like the one poster mentioned, would solve all my problems with it. I'm willing to consider both but I'm leaning towards a SS.” Not a problem. It’s not my kitchen! :-)

As to Mark Bischak’s suggestions, I of course already addressed the idea of closing off the opening between the kitchen and entry. If cevamal decided to go with replacing the door at the living area with windows, I wouldn’t stridently object as there is merit to that option. My design instincts go more towards developing as much connection between interior and exterior as possible, both visual and circulatory, not to mention wanting to allow as much natural air circulation as possible. We have delightful springs and falls, and even summer mornings and evenings beg for opening up the home. If we go with windows then we’re looking at breaking up the view with more mullions and sashes. The design is driven by a beautiful view in that direction, and I have also planned for a large 3-panel sliding glass door in the master suite to the right of the fireplace.

Finally, as to the orientation of the piano, I think the plan as I have it has an excellent connection with the kitchen occupants (again, the heart of the home), as well as the rest of the main living space.

Oh, also, both main aisle widths are now 48" counter edge to counter edge.

Sorry but my layout is still better for all the reasonslisted

And those angled corner cabinets havent been a thing in over 10 years. Too much unusable space

@cpartist which plan are you talking about? The only one I see is drawn on top of my existing kitchen in the old house, not in the new house space.

@Skia Design LLC thanks for humoring me!

I'd like cabinets that go to 8' with a soffit to bring the ceiling down to the top of the cabinets. I dislike having space over the cabinets to collect dust (and occasionally an industrious cat.) We're tall so 8' cabinets are no problem (only things at the very top require a stool or climbing on the counter) and the extra storage space is invaluable. I cannot over emphasize how much kitchen stuff I have.

The cabinets over the fridge and ovens will be great for vertical storage. I currently have cabinets over the fridge and pantry cab with vertical storage for cookie sheets, baking pans, cooling racks, etc.

(I also have vertical storage in the angled cabinet in the island which is perfect for cutting boards. The widest ones go at the full depth side, then they're lined up by decreasing size. There's a narrow shelf at the top for my kitchen scale.)

@skia would you put a cabinet with pull-outs opposite the cooktop? This is where I keep my stand mixer, food processor, and accessories.

I don't want the main sink in the island, in front of the window is perfect. I'm not 100% sure of the placement of the prep sink in the island (I want it in the island, question is where in the island) so feedback is welcome. It's not necessary to seat four at the island (that's just what we have now) so if better placement means losing a seat that's something we can consider.

Definitely no downdraft vent! When we remodeled the current kitchen we put in a higher quality vent and it's been wonderful. The only change I'll make is to locate the fan further back in the vent so it's quieter in the kitchen.

I'd like to stick with a super susan with 12" doors on each side. I use that cabinet for so many big things! Mine with just 10" doors has a small instant pot, 14" wok, 12" skillets, large stock pots, salad spinner, saucier, all my sauce pans, etc. For the top cabinet in the corner I currently have a hinged door which I think results in a bigger opening. The downside is that you have to close it just right or it bangs into the door next to it. Open to suggestions.

What about moving the oven to the left so the drawers to its right can be wider and there can be an upper cabinet above them. Our current layout has large drawers and an upper cabinet next to the dishwasher and we store all our plates/bowls/silverware in the drawers and glassware in the cabinet so it's right next to the dishwasher, plus people can set the table without cutting through the kitchen.

I'm inclined to keep the opening to the entryway and the piano as is.

Perhaps the fun loop should not be located where the oven is or a young child could easily slip out the front door.

I suggest you contact a local kitchen designer to help you design a kitchen that works the way you cook. I sense that what you currently have is impeding changes for the better.

I think you could apply cpartists layout to your current house just fine. I'm not sure your prep sink helps you that much (other than for second cook) as you still have to walk around the island to get it to it. If you used cpartists layout or turned the island you would have a nice tight cooking triangle. If you want to just recreate the same layout you can do it, but I wouldn't consider it the best for cooking. Also if you use a dish rack on counter you don't have a lot of oven drop space, especially as the sink is on the island there too. I'm just assuming people who put in double oven must need lots of room there! If you move it to left as you asked that would create more space, but would put oven right in the entry way which is a bit suboptoptimal.

Agree about the corner cabs. I have all doors and no corners in my kitchen so no experience with storage, but would say as designed it looks like it was from another era... at 9' I'd also do cabs or crown moulding up to the ceilings - everyone is ripping out their soffits these days.

@Mark Bischak, Architect

I'm not worries about a small child slipping out. The smallest is currently eight and will probably be ten before we move.

What do you mean by "I sense that what you currently have is impeding changes for the better." Do you mean my current kitchen? The current design for the new kitchen? Something else?

@lharpie

I agree with @Skia Design LLC, I do not want the cooktop under the window instead of the sink. I really like my current kitchen design (and used a kitchen designer for it) and would not want them swapped.

When we use a dish rack (actually one of those drying pads) it's to the right of the sink, plus I generally take things from the oven to the island. I do see that the sink could be an impediment there. The prep sink and the wall ovens (I currently have a double oven range, but the bottom oven is SO low. My knees are fine now but higher will be better) are pretty much my only regrets from my remodel. There are just so many times where we have need/want for a second sink.

I'm trying to consider rotating the island. Now that I can see it in 3d I'm not as dead set against it as I was.

I think when I said soffits I was envisioning crown molding. Hadn't really considered the difference before! My previous kitchens have just had gaps between the cabinets and the ceiling and this one has a couple inches of molding.

Do not be so short sighted, at some period of time during the life of the house small children will be in the house, either children, grand children, or friend's children.

You posted your existing kitchen layout and you refer back to it about how much you really like it. Many times people will let their current good interfere with their potential better.

@cevamal

Regarding dropped soffits and angles, to me it sounds like the lesson you need to take from the advice given is: If everyone else is doing it, so should you. Teach your kids that valuable lesson as well!

Rip out soffits just because everyone is doing it? Really?! The only three related circumstances in which I could conceive that to be a viable design rationale—rather than just the fickle whims of the herd—are these: 1) you plan to update a kitchen for a quick resale to satisfy said whims; 2) you don't expect to be in your house long enough to go beyond the current fashion trend, and 3) you are a builder of spec homes. But these don't apply to you, do they?

Make your decisions based on how you want to live, and the actual functional ramifications of any particular design choice. It's your kitchen. Our kitchen has a cathedral ceiling and a soffit wouldn't work with the overall look, but we also don't have an indoor and adventurous cat, and never will. And absolutely, it gets nasty dusty on top of those cabinets. I wonder how many of the herd who are ripping out their soffits are going to regret that decision down the road? Maybe at the time the herd then decides to build them back in? And how many of the herd who have installed floating shelves have regretted that decision? (And yes, I have designed a few kitchens with them, but always taking the lead from the clients' wishes—because those are their kitchens!! I just make sure the client considers all the issues, and once they are fully informed and make their decisions, I can live with it.)

Same goes for the diagonal corner cabinet: I offer a design rationale for it not founded on the whim of the herd. If the design and design rationale don't work for you, not a problem. And hey, if you wanted to go with a full-on retro look, say MCM or the fading days of Art Deco or true Craftsman, well, go for it!

As to the wall ovens, I only go along with Mark Bischak's comments to a limited point. I would not want to move the ovens closer to the entry because of the circulation question. Yes, I had already considered this. But his logic only goes so far. There is always the possibility of a rug rat (or anyone else for that matter) running into an open oven door. Or a refrigerator door, or a dishwasher door. It doesn't matter where in the kitchen these things are. I have bruised my shins a few times on our dishwasher. It's inescapable. And you as a parent and anyone else with children who happen to be using the oven would be aware of a present hazard and so would limit any horseplay nearby. If the possibility Mr. Bischak suggests makes you at all queasy, I have already suggested one option (borrowed light and close that loop (though you will still have a loop around the island!)), and there are other possible tweaks.

We can also explore other arrangements (as you previously mentioned my first scheme was completely different, and it didn't suit you at all. You said above, "I intensely disliked it. Probably just because my current island is oriented the way it is, but I like it and don't want to change. :p" As you already know, telling me what you don't like is more important than telling me what you like!) If you want to bring in a KD for this one as well as you did for your current home, again, no objection!

At the end of the day, you will be living in this kitchen for quite some time. Decades perhaps. It's not "short sighted" to design for what you want for the long haul. So, does the plan, at least in its basic form represent to you the potential better beyond the current good of your existing kitchen?

I don‘t have any comments to add about the layout, but I saw you are in SWVA. Me too! May I give you a suggestion? Amish made cabinetry! There is a man in Tazewell who hand made our solid wood cabinets for a new build and the quality is unbelievable. I didn’t know him personally at all before we had ours done, but I sing his praises to everyone I can. We got quotes from Lowe’s, Berry’s, Builders First Source, and a design center in Abingdon and he was under all of them and everything was completely custom. His price includes install. He will deliver as well. I’ll include a couple of photos of ours. You contact him via phone, but it is an outdoor phone he checks every few days, so leave a message and be will call you back. I hand drew our cabinets on grid paper for him, and he made them come to life. He even accomdated a hidden slide in our island, though he probably thinks I’m nuts. If you happen to use him, tell him ”the one with the slide” sent you! His name is Allen, his number is 276-472-2114. good luck!

for some reason my photos aren’t uploading, will try in another post!

He also made these:

To be fair coartist did move the windows - there was no stove in front of the windows. we all agree that is suboptimal. i like the big window with sink which is why i considered rotating the island.

i see no reason to follow every design trend (and i certainly didn’t with my kitchen!), however i also wouldn’t want to spend a ton of money on a new build with design choices that no one chooses these days (and go to great lengths to undo) unless there was a good reason. and there may be good reason which is fine! i’d just assume keep resale value up myself as we never know what life has in store for us….

I like the idea of swapping the fridge and oven locations. For the way I cook, having the ovens closer to the cooktop makes more sense. For example, if making chicken enchiladas or lasagna, I first use the stovetop, then assemble the dish, then put it in the oven. Nice having everything right there together. Hot food coming out of the oven would plop down on the stovetop so no need to worry about protecting the countertop. Well, unless you go with soapstone!

Also I like my fridge close to where I would keep my mugs and coffee pot. Drinking glass would be next to fridge as well for ice water and drinks. I would store those in a cabinet close to the DW for easy unloading. It is just a more effecient layout for the way I do things.

But if you want to keep the fridge and oven where you had planned, that works too. But in my opinion, only if you rotate the island.

Maybe something like this?

Not sure, but I tried moving the entry as a possible solution for the oven and loopty loop situation! 😁

So with this layout, I imagine taking veggies/meat from the fridge and setting them directly across the isle on the island or in the sink. Wash and chop. Pivot around and bring to stove to cook. A separate prep zone location would be between the main sink and stove. Also I like there is a separate cleanup zone that doesn’t interfere with the prep/cook areas.

@M R

I know Allen. I first learned of him when a client had him build their cabinetry, in 2019. I was sufficiently impressed and had Allen provide a custom vanity and another set of cabinets for a guest suite I built recently. Yes, absolutely beautiful work for a great price. I had already told @cevamal about him, and about Daniel C as well, the other Amish cabinetmaker in our area. Daniel built our kitchen and bath cabinets back in 2006 in addition to a large number of other kitchens in my designs.

@rebunky

I personally don't have any major objection to rotating the island, and actually thinks it works quite well to do so, at least from an efficiency POV. cevamal of course needs to be comfortable with it. cevamal mentioned above reconsidering that possibility. The minor objection I have is based in a preference to have those seated at the bar also enjoy direct views to the exterior (rather than having to turn heads 90°). There's also the piano-to-bar visual connection previously mentioned. With these two thoughts in mind I hedge towards not rotating the island, but we shall see what cevamal thinks.

I also am now thinking about reworking the island a bit which may answer all the issues. The starting point was that cevamal loves the existing home's island, but I think cevamal is open to exploring an improvement in this new home's context.

Also, with my comment about "other possible tweaks" at the entry/kitchen opening what you sketched was close to one specific thought I had in mind, so thanks for sketching that out for me (us!)

With regard to fridge/oven position, my reasons for keeping positions as shown are, first, unless a client wants to spring for a true cabinet depth $4K or more fridge I will as often as possible create a wall pocket to get a standard fridge set back; exterior walls are more problematic in this regard (unless of course it was double-stud framing for the exterior envelope) Neither applies in cevamal's case and cevamal has the same strong feeling about creating a pocket to push a standard, much-less-expensive fridge back into line with the counter edge . Second, I like to see the fridge more directly connected to the dining and living areas because often the traffic to the fridge is directly between these. Third, when unloading from a grocery trip, the flow works better from garage past pantry to dropping bags on island to load in fridge, pantry, and cabinets.

@lharpie

No doubt a number of my clients share your opinion about resale value and if that is their motivation then I add that to my list of design parameters. No problem whatsoever! I simply express my own opinion that when it comes to a truly custom home, with a client who plans to live in it for many years to come, limiting the design decisions to that kind of base financial consideration often results in dull, drab, boring architecture. I contend that a home which works, and I mean by this to include the functions, the spatial relationships, the natural light, and the views, among other aspects, then a potential buyer is going to easily understand these, and will understand that the colors, materials, finishes, etc. are only secondary and easily changed.

No, we never know what life may have in store for us. I could die tomorrow and so would much rather live in—and more immensely enjoy—an environment of my choosing, rather than in what the herd would dictate.