I second leg of lamb studded with garlic slices and roasted (I have a convection oven) to medium rare. A real lamb hasn't had much time to build up toughness.

We don't have to be contentious about this stuff. Isn't it personal likes etc anyway?

Ham is an interesting word that is quite old and it refers to the bend of the leg(aka knee) and even people have a ham (as in pull your ham string?) If you look inside a whole pork ham you will find the knee joint. We have come to think of it as meaning cured . so it goes. Our OP tried to avoid confusion by saying Fresh ham with lots of descriptives. Ham on a modern hog is hardly going to be tough. They dont get to walk around much and even if you run hogs they spend a big part of the ends of their lives in a small pen being fattened.

I’m right in line with the lamb lovers. Just picked up some ground lamb yesterday. I think our favorite is butterflied and grilled leg.

This isn't new but it's a good insight. Click to enlarge

😄

How about this one - too much?

I'm starting to think the title of this thread is some sort of double entendre...

The image I posted has stereotypes in both directions. I accepted Annie's "joshing" explanation and offered the image in response.

Elmer, your meme means a man is a simple creature who doesn't get nuance. Are you sure you want to embrace being a simple creature? I suspect there are men out there who are going to want to be more.

I've offered a number of hints concerning my intent. Saying that it conveyed a stereotype (which it obviously is on its face, of a non-serious type, and most of which anyway are of little value and often quite absurd), later referencing Annie's comment to me, using the word "joshing" and saying that I offered the image in response to her comment to me. I'd say it's not me who doesn't get "nuance".

“Islay, for fun, you might ask at a butcher shop. Seems many people in the US are unaware of fresh hams...maybe so in the UK too.”

No. If one asked for ‘fresh ham‘ here the butcher would be puzzled, or even perhaps insulted. It would imply you thought their ham might be past its best and you felt you needed to specify that you didn’t want suspect meat. ‘Ham‘ here always means a cured product. Otherwise it’s just called pork, as we ate yesterday. It was simply roasted with plenty of crackling.

Btw I’ve never found it necessary to braise a leg of lamb to make it tender. The lamb we buy will roast perfectly fine simply shoved in the oven as it is.

Thanks, floral, but I'd still be curious. Rather than a request, maybe ask the butcher for his take on it, what he'd call that cut of meat uncured, tell him you were encouraged by your nutty "Yank" friends! :)

It's rather obvious that Elmer Fudd has never had a properly prepared potroast nor pulled pork.

I spent 20 years trying to eat 2 hogs a year with a family of four, finally traded lout one hog for half a beef. I know from shoulder steaks and shoulder roasts, picnic hams and whole hams, cured and smoked or not and both shank and butt and how to carve them/ And I know breakfast sausage from Italian from ground pork. And I know how to cook it all...AND I have witnessed the differences in the carcass andw hat growers strive for in the past 30 years.

How would you cook a fresh ham? 😉

"It's rather obvious that Elmer Fudd has never had a properly prepared potroast nor pulled pork.".

I don't think that's "obvious" and it certainly isn't how I see it. I'm an adventurous eater and I try things before deciding what I prefer. A few times if I think I may not like something. Because of my interest, I often remember what and where.

Pulled pork - last two encounters were at BBQ joints/dives I was taken to by locals. One was in Austin, forget the name. The other is in a Southern state, I believe in the general area where one of this forum's regulars lives. Name of the place is Saw's. Both places are well known and are the kind where you often have to wait. Likely much better than what most people can accomplish at home. Though I love many kinds of pork meats prepared various ways, I don't care for pulled pork and I'm good with that.

Pot roast - two nice restaurants with conscientious chefs (not diners or coffee shops), that offer upscale "comfort food". Both popular, call a few days in advance for a reservation, more days in advance for one on a weekend. One was in my general area (and in checking, may have been a victim of the pandemic, it had no outside seating) and one in SoCal. They were similar in style, tried pot roast at both. Pot roast doesn't ring a bell for me.

Enjoy your whole hogs.

I have to admit that "Tasteless meat swimming in too much sauce" raised an eyebrow. I can't imagine it being tasteless unless they forgot both the rub and the smoking process. Swimming in sauce? It has its own juices but I've never been served sauce as anyrhjng but on the side. Maybe I haven't gone to good places. 😉

Keep your eyebrow raised if you wish.

Nah not worth the effort. Sorry you've been served bad food.

floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK, That is the way it should be here. Ham is a cooked, seasoned, preserved, smoked meat. It should just be labeled pork, since it is uncooked, not fresh ham.

NOT that I'm speaking in Elmer's defense (because why would I ;-), but I've had some pretty poor excuses for "pulled pork BBQ" over the years. And we are all entitled to our own food tastes -- my own DD doesn't like pizza, for gosh sakes!, and we haven't disowned her lol.

Once in a while I've ordered pot roast and now matter how expensive, it's never ever been even slightly close to as good as any pot roast I've had made by a home cook. If I had to chose one meal to have every day it would be pot roast. Now I'm hungry!

Has Caroline come back to tell us what she decided to do and I missed it?

"Sorry you've been served bad food."

I'm sorry you seem to be having a bad day. Or, at least, a needlessly argumentative one. We don't all have the same preferences and you're probably not only old enough to understand that, but also it's likely something you experience with your own tastes.

"We don't all have the same preferences and you're probably not only old enough to understand that, but also it's likely something you experience with your own tastes."

I'm sorry you're having a day of poor reading comprehension. Or, at least, a needlessly defensive one. Nowhere did I pass any judgment on your preferences, which are of course subjective. I commented about what you described as "Tasteless meat swimming in too much sauce." As you describe it, that would not appeal to me either. I prefer it as I've always had it served (with the possible exception of Jack Daniels' from the frozen section?) and that is wet with juices, but the sauce served on the side. Generally a choice of various house made sauces. And certainly not tasteless, even without sauce.

I'm sorry you've been served bad food.

"We don't all have the same preferences and you're probably not only old enough to understand that, but also it's likely something you experience with your own tastes."

This statement is unnecessarily condescending in tone. But then many of Emer's statements regarding any opinions other than his own, very narrow ones tend to get dressed with the same dismissive attitude.

Fine food. I'll say it straight on - you can nitpick my comments all you want. Like most people, I'm not producing a written report I'm being paid for (that was part of my professional career), I offer quick thoughts that come out as they do.

I think I can assess the quality of what I've been served without your help and I'm comfortable doing so. Thanks for your interest and concern.

You too, GG

I agree with nickel that I've never had a pot roast eaten out that was ever anywhere near as good as home made. The closest is a german restaurant not too far from here that does make a decent sauerbraten.

My MIL must've struggled with pot roast over the years as, after she passed, I was cleaning out and organizing her recipes and she must've cut out 50 pot roast recipes from magazines and such over the years. DH used to complain that she'd keep making a recipe until she got it perfected, and then after that, they never saw it again. I guess the challenge was past by then.

Elmer - I don't care if you're paid for this or not, if you're gonna write something then getting a response is well in the realm of possibility. A response to what you wrote, not what you were thinking. Perhaps rather than spend so much energy on verbosity, you could channel some of it towards clarity. And perhaps tone while you're at it. Surely after all these years you've noticed how consistently your tone works to the detriment of the thoughts you try to convey.

And Elmer messes up another post. No recipes. Just complaints that the food is all bad and what he likes is better than what we like. And, he is so misunderstood, What a troll. What he talks about is only loins and steaks, not the meat in question.

I messaged Caroline, but I doubt is she cares to come back. If she is interested, I'll send some recipes on the message system.

How many hams does it take to cook a fresh jam well - 77?

(That latter word was supposed to be "ham", until the inbuilt editor on my device got hold of it)

ole joyful

I had you in mind with my comment, Glenda, but I withheld your name.

Maybe we should discuss pulled pork-something that Elmer doesn't like. Caroline must have long since cooked that Fresh ham.

Pulled pork is not my favorite pork barbeque. I am a rib fan. I prefer the flavor and toothiness of the rib meat. Pulled pork is normally served as a sandwich often with slaw on the sandwich. Your experience will vary. That is how they served it at the joint in Tupelo Ms where Elvis Presley used to go before he disappeared. I am not going to stick my neck out and proclaim him dead lest someone objects. Not swimming in anything. They offered a vinegar based sauce. You got baked beans with the sandwich. I on the other hand got my ribs, $10.00 a full slab, at a gas station on the county line. They had a superior pit master there for their tiny operation. Sweet sauce was free in a cup. No rub, just the flavor of the meat and the roast. Roasting technically is supposed to be over or next to coals. In an oven it is baked, not roasted. I am talking social history here. Cooking the meat till it falls off the bones is just an option. No one was doing whole pig in that area. Isn't that more of an Atlantic coastal thing? I suppose some people in Tennessee do it.

My son is all into the BQ. He cooked in the tournaments for a long time. Pork ribs and Boston butts. Beef briskets and all kinds of chicken. Mostly sauce on the side. I had all of them listening to my Minion method of doing Boston Butts on my $40 smoker. No, it was not "swimming" in grease and sauce. The fat drips out and the sauce is on the side. Just a dry rub on the pork. I do Boston's and ribs.

The first time I had a BQ sandwich with vinegar slaw on top was in 1970 in Iuka, MS. I was starving and it was fantastic. I still like it that way today.

He is their go-to for gettogethers at the pool. He cooked the whole pig, head and all, for their last party. He said he had all the kids wanting to stick the apple in the mouth!

I would really like to know how the ham came out.

I know mentioned it already, but I don't even eat pork any more, yet somehow, I do not feel compelled to bash it 😃

I used to make pork roasts in a French style, with white wine and lots of garlic, a la Jacques Pepin.

My rendition of pulled pork. Only way I ever prepare it.

boston butt bone in or out 4 lb or more
rub with kosher salt all over
2 Tbl liquid smoke
1 banana
Put the roast in you cast iron dutch oven, I put foil in the bottom
pour the smoke over the roast
I also put two bay leaves in
cut an unpeeled banana in half, and place on two sides of the pan
Pour 1/2 cup water around the roast

Cover
Place in preheated 250 degree oven, and let it cook 5, 6 hours, until the meat falls off the bone, or falls apart. Depends on the size. Larger ones take 8 hours.

Let it cool, a little, before taking two forks to shred the meat.

Put the juices in the refrig to cool, then remove the fat.

I add the meat back to some of the juices, and have the other on reserve, for the guest to add as desired.

I serve it with white bbq sauce on the side and Hawaiian sweet rolls for sliders.

Made this so many times I don't even need to look up the recipe.

I want to thank everyone who had positive inputs and suggestions. I cooked the ham; we ate the ham; it was delicious.

I combined parts of three of the suggestions above but I won’t say which three. I don’t want any more negative comments.

When I took the ham out of the fridge I saw the farmer-butcher had stamped it “Cured with salt and water.” It probably had a brine bath for a few hours. It was not salted to the point of nausea as some farm hams were back in the day.

When the kid handed it to me he said ”Dad wants you to have this fresh ham.”

To me “fresh ham” means the back leg of a pig that is freshly killed, hung, butchered, and packaged, all in one process.

The piece of ham they gave me weighed 5.8 lbs. and was about 3.25 inches thick. The rind (skin) had been removed and the fat layer had been closely trimmed.

I don't have a photo of the finished ham. It would give away which recipes I used!

Now brace yourselves - this spring I am roasting a whole suckling pig in my oven.

I don't blame you for keeping your finished dish a secret LOL I'm glad it was good!

The most important part is that your efforts were a success and that you enjoyed it! Thanks for letting us know!

thanks for the follow up!

"Now brace yourselves - this spring I am roasting a whole suckling pig in my oven."

@caroline94535 That's been on my bucket list! I've got "The First Ladies Cook Book" and have felt inspired by this picture. Though in truth I'm not sure if it's more the pig or the stove that I'm drawn to.

That‘s what I hope to achieve! do you think it witkd feed four? Three of them are men.

There are so many "fancy" ways to cook things. My suggestion is always startw ith the most basic and simple way and embellish when you have prefected that.

For a fresh, uncured pork ham roast, I cut the rind and a lot of the fat off, lay it in a big oldfashioned roaster with a lid, but leave the lid off, Cover with sliced onions, roast at 425 for 45 minutes, add a cup of liquid,w ater, broth, a light beer...half applehuice half chicken broth...whatever. Put on the lid and turn the oven down to 325 and cook until an instant read measures 130. Remove to platter, tent, skim pan juices with a gravy separator, add a slurry of flour and water, cook scraping down the fond for about 6 or 7 minutes, correct seasonings and serve with the sliced meat.

For a pulled pork, a pork shoulder, in that same roaster, covered with sliced onions, Tablespoon or so of cider vinegar, and a can of rootbeer, Cover and cook at 320 untill very tender., remove to platter, remove rind, bone and all the visible fat, pull apartw ith 2 forks, meanwhile skim the fat from the pan juices and add some broth, and bring to a simmer scraping down the pan brown bits....add salt to taste but it won't need much. Sauce as you choose....or not!

I served that to my grandson and his fiancee a couple ofw eeks ago and they "ummm-um"ed all through the meal and ate piled plates, Alex said as he went for seconds, "Grandma, i have never had just a plate full of pulled pork, it's always been in a sandwich!"

Glenda, When I read your process for cooking the meat I wonder-Banana? What does the banana add to the mix? It sounds really interesting. I had an uncle who would put peanut butter on a regular cured ham when he cooked it.

A short salt rub or brine will firm your meat and by some sort of alchemy make the meat moister even as it pulls moisture out. It is a curious thing to me that it does that.

Someone from the KT mentioned the banana. I don't know exactly what it does, but whatever, I like it :o)

I’m enjoying the conversation. I always have to look up what ”fresh ham” means.

I like the variety of ”voices” in this exchange. I understand that sometimes people feel someone is speaking in a judgmental tone, but I see it only as strong opinionsnhere and there.

I hope caroline returns with photos and descriptions.

Does pork from the rump or leg taste quite differently than say from the loin or shoulder?

(Sliding into my expansive expository mood).

I love med-rare laamb with garlic and rosemary. Sign me up.

I do think that a lot of home made pot roasts taste better than those served at restaurants. Depends. Also depends on the outdoor temperature and how hungry I am. I generally no longer cook or eat much solo meat, but use it with vegetables like stir fries.

I’ve had some good pulled pork and some not so good. I am probably never going to order tongue, head cheese, guts, or feet.

Some people absolutely detest this:

(Lobster on croissant. It looks greenish because I include a little bit of the tomalley and I ferret out just about every reasonably edible part of the lobster body. The opossum gets the fluffy gills, brain, fat, roe and sometimes the legs. Served with spring water.)

Everything but pet hair is getting more expensive, all over the globe.

You feed the roe....the coral...to the possum? Try eating it yourself....it's better in my opinion than the tomally.

I can understand not eating tongue because it has a distinct flavor and I dont care for it. Head cheese is simply the meat on the head cooked till it falls off and there is a lot of gelatin in the head so the meat sets up very firm. the meat is spiced and often has vinegar mixed to give a pickled taste. We were told as children we wouldn't like it so as to make more for the grownups. It isn't a choice of mine but nothing wrong with it. My other grandmother loved pigs feet but my Grannie who raised the pigs said she knew where they had been. Odd that she should be finicky like that. She would save the feet for my other grandmother. The only guts I ate were encasing sausage. I once helped clean them. Oh my.

I eat chicken, duck and turkey guts often - liver, gizzards, hearts...

For fresh pork roasts like this, I make a rub of salt, dried oregano and minced garlic (heavy on that for us). I also poke some holes in the meat and insert garlic cloves. Roast it fat side up till temp tests safely.

Oh funny Carolb. I think of guts as intestines. People eat chittlings-cooked pig intestine. I do not go there. I too enjoy gizzards but seldom as they have become more expensive than any other part of the chicken including wings.

In college, sorority served brains and scrambled eggs, Saturday evenings. Dining room was mostly empty, counting me :o)

I've got a cookbook that my Mom got when she married in 1948. I have to google some of the meats to see what they are.