Nicole__ omgosh you do some the most wonderful things because of your mother. All the best things!

Very few things and other than being a terrible housekeeper which I do blame on my mother's insistence that when I attempted to clean my room I had to put everything in a paper bag for her to go through. I would then find the whole thing poured out on my bed. If I did not want something like old schoolwork, I took it to school and tried to dispose of most of it there. She always wanted to see mine but not my brother's so I had to bring something home for her to look at. Never knew when she would decide to look at things but I had better have something for her to look at.

The rest are what I consider social. Be polite to everyone. Be able to talk to anyone no matter their social or financial condition. While not something they taught I did learn by their example. Always have extra money because there would be a time that it would come in handy. Do not let family or friends consider you their bank. From others was, if you make a donation make it quietly. Donations should come from the heart with no expectation of thanks. If possible give so the recipient has no idea where it came from.

I was an only child and not close to either parent. In fact, I mostly rebelled against many of their ways, consciously. My mother was a terrible cook and I learned to cook French and Italian after spending time in Europe and now adore cooking. I was far more influenced by my late husband than by either parent . I adopted many of his passions and we were like "soul mates.".

However, in my tastes, I do find similarities to both parents: my love of books, of travel, of learning new skills, of handwritten letters, of the woods and wildflowers, of art and architecture, and, most of all -- of history.

Such interesting comments, I appreciate the moments of self-reflection and hope more will come.

yayagirl, I'm sure everyone is moved as I was in reading the account of the challenges and adversity you've successfully dealt with. Oh my! No wonder you've survived and came away with a fearless attitude. Thank you for sharing it - such serious problems you had to face certainly put more mundane things people think are a big deal in their proper place.

As to pies, for arcy, jkayd and others: in my parent's household, as in my own as an adult, having dessert at the end of a meal was/is rare. Almost never. The exception would be for birthdays, the odd special occasion, and dinner parties with guests. When the occasion or our choice suggests having a pastry or baked item, I can't imagine how something homemade could be better than what's available at a specialty bakery. So the practice is to buy these things from professionals, not from the grocery store but from a well regarded bakery. They're still around in my areas, maybe not in yours, and are often owned and run by formally trained pastry chefs.

I make a lot of food the same way my mom did. She was an excellent cook. I did, after growing up change a thing here and there. She used cottage cheese in her lasagna and I started using ricotta instead. However, a couple weeks ago I tried a casserole dish that was a lot like lasagna but with wide egg noodles and cottage cheese and I really liked it. I may go back to the cottage cheese.

I also raise my dogs the way my parents did. No crates, no dog training, no play dates, etc... they just live in my house and go out back to run, play and use the bathroom. My kids and some of my exchange students have tried to walk them and they were hard to control, so maybe not the best way to raise them. I can take Chewie to the vet, car to the office is a short distance but if ihad to walknhim in the park or on the street, it wouldn't be fun.

Once I was old enough, I made most of the desserts. My father actually preferred my pies to my mothers. Once he even kept me home from a day of school so that I could make pies for his guild meeting.

@Elmer J Fudd...Chicken pot pies? Quiche? Shepherds pie? Not all my pies are sweet. Not all have a top crust. My aunt in Texas had a pecan tree. Pecan pie is a staple for Texans....my birth place.

We have tons of bakeries. Horseshoe, Daylight, A Dutch Bakery, Nothing Bundt Cakes, Marigolds, La Baguette, SugarPlum Cake Shoppe, more than I can name......then the chains like Applebees & Costco. I only bake sweet pies for potlucks or holidays.

The nice thing about knowing how to bake your own pastries, cakes, pies, etc is the variety. I was the family baker as well and I learned on simple things like basic cakes, cookies and pies. Now I can do Puff pastries, Brioche, galettes, tarts, tortes and so on. can use any sort of fruit or nut, enhance with my home made liqueurs am only bound by my imagination. And then there are the savories as Nicole pointed out. How many bakeries?

I love making savory pies, including hand held pattie-like meat pies.

nicole, haha. Shepherd's pie is as much of a pie as is Eskimo Pie. I was thinking of and referring to "pies" as dessert items. As for pecan pie - if one comes my way, you can have it. I eat and enjoy almost everything, but pecan pie is not on that very long list.

patricia, "how many bakeries" ...what?

If you enjoy baking and are good at it, that's great. As I mentioned, we rarely eat dessert at home, so baking is not a necessary skill in my family. Even if it were someone's hobby, I can't imagine it would take the place of my preference for a pro's creations compared to what an amateur can produce.

Re: Pie. I have made many fruit pies in my life, but not recently. My MIL made excellent pie crust, and I've used her recipe (includes lard) with similar success. An Italian-American neighbor made the best apple pies, 'with her eyes closed' as far as measurements.

Let's challenge our seeming Foodie, Elmer, to *try* baking a pie! It would be hard for the best 'store-bought' pie to beat a good pie *fresh out of the oven*. Time is the enemy of baked goods.

My DM worked to support her family during the Depression, starting at age 16. Her parents never had the wherewithal to live or cook beyond simple basics, and DM learned a bit more as wife and mother. I don't enjoy cooking; I'm not much of an eater either. I have experienced plenty of 'fine dining' at home and abroad as an adult, but gastronomy isn't my thing. Maybe pyloric stenosis (and surgery) damaged my ability to embrace *food*. I do appreciate good food, but I'm in the "Eat to Live" group.

I'll have to think about how much of the way I live has been influenced by my upbringing.

I tried making apple pie long ago. It was an unmitigated disaster. We have a diner, The Peninsula Creamery, which makes everything from scratch. Their pies are lovely and if you buy one to bring hime it comes in a cute pyrex baking dish.

I bake pies. Apple is my favourite with coconut cream a close second. Although, I don't make the coconut cream anymore; it's too much and doesn't keep, for just 1 person.

Mom and dad split up; she left him when my brother was 3 months old and I was 21 months old. He was a jerk. I never knew him, nor was I interested in meeting him.

She moved back to Ontario (was in Calgary) with us in tow. Lived in Toronto for a short period and then her parents asked her to move in with them.

She worked in a factory in the afternoons and Nan would look after us. Nan wasn't much of a cook, but I distinctly remember her using her cast iron skillet for most cooking. I can still see her chopping up fried potatoes using a soup can.

She also used a soup can to cut out biscuits, which I do as well. And I love my cast iron skillets, as well as having stainless steel ones.

My clothes were hand-me downs from my cousins. I remember Mom and I driving to a town outside of Toronto to visit her sister and my cousins and we'd come home with some garbage bags full of clothes.

These weren't shoddy, stained well-worn clothes. They were good quality dresses (we wore dresses to elementary school) and tops and pants. I was always a nicely dressed kid.

To this day, buying high-end designer clothing, accessories, etc isn't on my radar. I buy at second hand stores. I'll buy new if on sale and even then at WM or some other chain store. Labels don't impress me at all.

I'm watchful on spending, conserve my hydro usage etc. I don't waste things. I'll buy something for myself, for sure, but I don't spend it willy-nilly or just to show off. I bought myself a new watch a couple of months ago, splurged on transition eye-glasses last week so they'd darken automatically.

"Let's challenge our seeming Foodie, Elmer, to *try* baking a pie! It would be hard for the best 'store-bought' pie to beat a good pie *fresh out of the oven*."

Two part answer - first, I limit what I prepare to items requiring no more than 10 minutes or so of prep, cooking time not included. I don't have an interest in baking anything. Second, I don't go for "store bought" baked goods. Take pie as an example - a rare purchase for our household, but the star of the show comes from a small family "farm" or ranch. Named Gizdich Ranch, down near where I believe caflwerlover lives, in the northern Monterey Bay area. They have apple orchards and fields of berries. They use their fruit to make pies. These are not conventional looking or tasting pies. Made with pippin apples, their standard apple pie is like 5-6 inches high, a mound of delicious tasting apples. We prefer their Dutch apple pie, it's buttery and heavenly. It's a Thanksgiving standard in our household, the holiday conveniently coming not long after apple harvest time. They have lots of berry pies too, we don't care for them.

Cakes come from bakeries, the kind that run out of things as the day progresses, so nothing is other than fresh.

Included in what I do do (never say do do), is this - seared large sea scallops, seasoned with only butter and salt. We found a restaurant fish purveyor who will sell to us, 10-20 pounds at a time, large DRY scallops. If you know the difference, you know the difference. These may be easier to find in the Northeast but not here. We walk in at the loading dock and pay in cash. They're unbelievable, easy to cook quickly and on a par with a such a dish at a fine restaurant. They're frozen (that insures freshness) and when defrosted smell like a sweet fresh ocean breeze. Defrosting, rinsing and drying is the entirety of the preparation. I'd say this was "handed down" to me by many excellent restaurants I've had seared scallops and in France, Coquille St Jacques.

One preparation that was handed down to me, that I do do in an adapted form with credit to the original, is my grandmother's split pea soup. That takes a bit more time but I've found shortcuts that save time without adversely changing the end product.

"It would be hard for the best 'store-bought' pie to beat a good pie *fresh out of the oven*."

Not all that hard......it depends on what kind of store it is, and whether a pie fresh out of the oven is good, or better than "good". If the store you're buying from is a big grocery store, then it probably won;t be better, but if the store you're buying it from is a small bakery, then definitely possible. I recently took some cheesecake to work (from my freezer, after it had been bought at Costco weeks before) and even my boss, who bakes her own cheesecakes, asked me for my recipe. Yes, I know a cheesecake isn't a pie, but there are some very good products available for purchase. Home made isn't always the best.

My homemaking and cooking skills originally came from my paternal grandmother, she was a wonderful southern cook and baker who kept a clean, inviting home and loved spending time with her grandkids. I have continued to learn new cooking and cleanning techniques as well as different styles of cooking; learning from classes, friends, books, Houzz discussions and more recently YouTube.

While I am sure that my mom taught me some things, she was not much of a teacher or very domestic. She more or less expected me to figure out things on my own. She was very stylish and I knew that I was expected to follow suit. That said she had more a a natural knack for style than I do.

"While I am sure that my mom taught me some things, she was not much of a teacher or very domestic."

Jill, my mother was very similar (though she wasn't very stylish). And as her profession she was a teacher. It didn't carry over to home learning. Two out of five of us love to cook. The other three, not so much. Had wonderful Home Ec. teachers in high school.

A person at home cannot bake a pie as good as one purchased at a professional bakery?? Seriously? You have not lived until you have eaten a homebaked blackberry pie (like I baked last week) from tame - not wild - blackberries grown in the Missouri hills. Blackberry vines from the backyard of a friend who transplanted them from her mother’s yard many years ago. Topped with whipped cream or ice cream or nothing. Heaven, pure heaven.

I am very different from my parents but I DO do a few things the same:

-we do not use the word ”shutup” to one another, ever.

-we do not raise our voices to one another. We do not carry on conversations across different rooms, either.

-the dinner table rule is ”No bare chesties at the table.” I had four brothers who tended to run around with no shirts in the summer. But at mealtime they got a shirt. I have 2 sons, and my rule was the same. My sons now have sons and they DON’T follow this rule. I keep my mouth shut. 😞

Littlebug, no shirt at the table would really irk me!! And wearing baseball caps in restaurants, shame.

"No shirts, no shoes, no service."

My sons now have sons and they DON’T follow this rule. I keep my mouth shut.

The downside of having sons. Had they been your daughters, they would follow your ways. Signed, the mother of sons, hoping for the best, and whose mouth too will be tightly closed.

"A person at home cannot bake a pie as good as one purchased at a professional bakery?? Seriously?"

I can't think of an example of any product or task that an amateur/hobbyist can do better than a trained and experienced competent professional. Not any. This can't be #1 of 1. Help me, if your premise is reasonable, are there other examples?

"A person at home cannot bake a pie as good as one purchased at a professional bakery?? Seriously?"

I certainly never said that, even though I did say something that might sound similar to some people: That it's possible for a purchased pie to be better than a homemade pie. Some people create home made pies that aren't very good, and some bakeries make pies that are fabulous. Some people make good pies, but not great pies, some people think the fruit from their garden is the best because it's fresh, even though the flavour isn't very deep. Fresh ingredients are no guarantee of a great pie, and fresh ingredients aren't limited to home-baked pies. There are too many variations to apply a rule of "homemade is always best", or "homemade beats bought", because those just aren't always true. .

"My sons now have sons and they DON’T follow this rule. I keep my mouth shut.

The downside of having sons......Signed, the mother of sons,"

Not so fast. I have sons and daughters. Sure, males and females are different to an extent (not always to the extent many think). And maybe it's different with mine than others but I see no gender correlation about their views, their choices, their preferences, and their conduct with regard to what they do now versus what they were exposed to growing up in the same household with the same parents.

Another way to look at it - hopefully everyone works hard to help their children grow up to be clear thinking and confident, capable, responsible adults. With the sense to make good decisions and the security to accept the consequences of being wrong from time to time. If so, a kid's decision to have their own priorities and make their own choices, no matter what's involved, is a sign of success. And by all means, keep your mouths shut and pick your battles to when it may really matter. Something that's strictly personal preference will rarely fall into that category.

Something that was a priority for you doesn't need to be one for them.

How odd to have a dress code for an everyday family dinner.

I would say a great homemde pie beats most great bakery pies.

I agree. And no one makes a chocolate homemade cake like my mother did.

I think if one likes more subtle, subdued flavors(and many people do!) then go to a bakery. If you want something loaded with love (aka flavor). Homemade is the way to go. Home cooks do not worry about profits when making a pie, and you can taste it. I have yet to find a good pumpkin pie from a bakery. Or at least one that can at least try to be on the same wavelength as mine or my moms. Apple pie too. It would make it so much easier, as I do not enjoy baking. I always think, "honey, did someone steal your spice rack and sugar? Why is this pie so........BLAND?" And one $40 pumpkin pie that I bought from a locally owned, highly recommended bakery had some sort of odd citrus taste in it. Gross! Never again, I just make my own. Also, any sort of fancy, professionally trained pastry chef seems to be of the opinion that one must ruin any chocolate cake by dumping coffee in the mix, which ruins it for me. I do not want a coffee flavored cake. I want a deep dark chocolate cake! I want it to taste like chocolate not coffee!!!! And don't tell me that coffee makes chocolate taste more like chocolate, it doesn't. And then they have the nerve to charge 120 bucks for it. Yeah, no. But, if one LIKES a chocolate cake that tastes like burnt chalk, hey, there is a bunch of bakeries out there for you!

“Odd to have a dress code for an everyday dinner.” LOL! Yes, it seems a person shouldn’t have to tell everyone to wear a shirt to the table, but it is what it is. Of course, we’re talking about country kids under the age of 10 who spend their day climbing trees, wading the creek, and riding bikes.

And yes, definitely the downside of having sons, rather than daughters, as the parents of your grandchildren. No way am I going to criticize the way my daughters-in-law run their households. 😉

So a professional anything is better than an amateur anything except pies and cakes? Sorry, no. I think some of you are disagreeing to protect your opinion without having much experience with what I'm suggesting.

Top quality, premium producers of food products, whether a restaurant, a bread or pastry bakery, or whatever, pay as careful attention to their ingredient sourcing and quality as to their technique. And will never make something if they're unable to find or unhappy with ingredients they want. Period. Give grandma a hug on her birthday but don't inflate things beyond the popping stage.

Just as with better quality food in restaurants, fine pastries of Western Europe that Americans swoon over are available here. Not easily, not everywhere, but available. Have those of you arguing about grandma's apple pie had a representative exposure to such stuff over there? I suspect not.

Elmer, I just meant mothers tend to set the tone in more trivial matters, like table manners. My husband eats American style, I eat Continental style. My boys eat the way I do.

I am not one who sees much of a difference between men and women, though there surely are some.

Food preferences are subjective. Its really not that serious. Some people are not satisfied if their food is not dripping in hot sauce and bacon fat. Others cannot stand the thought of even salt and pepper. The citrus flavored pumpkin pie I mentioned might be a delicacy to someone else. Not me though.

A good cook can make delicious food out of generic, average quality ingredients, IMO. Which is why home cooks IN MY OPINION, make better food. If you cannot make food taste good, you are just not a good cook. If you need the ingredients to be of a certain level for your food to taste good, then you are a shopper, not a cook. Just my opinion.

My grandmothers were not good cooks. But I am. I do not need to drape my roasted chicken in gold leaf to make it taste good.

Zalco, I see.

My kids are older than yours. I will tell you that part of the quiet High-5s you'll give yourself as you see in future years what elements of their childhood homes and lives they carry to their adult homes and lives, you'll have more than a few laughs about some of the random things you'll find that you never gave much thought to but that seemingly made a lasting impression on them. That they incorporate into their own ways and preferences. It can be very funny but also gratifying.

In addition to physical resemblances, there are many lifestyle preferences our kids put into their suitcases when they packed their bags to venture out as adults. We're close to all of them but little affirmations that say without words to the effect of "Hey, we love our parents but they're people we like too, we like what they do and some of the things they showed us and taught us" feel pretty good too. Even better is when you see parenting MOs being used by them with their own kids.

I just thought of a tradition I guess I started that my kids follow.

Many many years ago when our first was born, I bought one of those cheap brightly colored Happy Birthday banners for his first birthday party. I still have it and hang it for every immediate family member’s birthday.

I just discovered that son and his wife bought their own and do the same. It’s odd how satisfying that is - a validation of something very simple that I did. And hopefully they will continue till long after I’m gone.

"I would say a great homemde pie beats most great bakery pies."

Sure, but not all homemade pies are great -- even those when the baker thinks they're great.

Besides, when this started, the commend was for a "good" homemade pie.

"If you want something loaded with love (aka flavor)."

Ugh, please. Love is not flavour, and flavour is not love. Not everyone who thinks they make wonderful things full of love are actually making good things (whether it's cooking, baking, sewing, or construction). Sometimes they think they're great but they're barely passable, or maybe just mediocre, even though they're full of love and fresh ingredients.

I don't know why so many people are offended by the idea that "homemade" does not always equal better, or even good. There are a lot of very average (or worse) cooks and bakers out there. Most people don't make great pies (or bread, or soup, or cakes); if they did, they would be average, not great - almost by definition.

Sure

Thank you, that's all some of us were saying.

Since when does "I disagree with your opinion based on my own life experiences" mean the same as "I'm offended." ? Are people "offended" by the view that sometime restaurant food is bland, badly cooked, overpriced, or just, to use your word, mediocre? Even though they may be expensive,prettily plated and prepared by someone who went to school to learn how to saute an onion?

Yeesh.

All this part of this discussion has shown is that some people can cook well at home and some people just can't. I can tell who is who....

Since when does "I disagree with your opinion based on my own life experiences" mean the same as "I'm offended.""

It doesn't, but the italics and "Seriously" comments do drive home the fact that some people are too tightly wound about this.......probably offended.

"some people can cook well at home and some people just can't."

Yup, that's pretty much what I was saying. Let's be done with the "homemade is always better" myth.

And the myth that something must be professionally made to not be just "average." 🙄

"All this part of this discussion has shown is that some people can cook well at home"

No, not to me. What many of the comments have expressed is that many THINK they can. or THINK others do. Opinions. People like their own cooking, like what they're accustomed to. It should stop there.

Flavor, quality and taste are not strictly subjective.

Yes, they are subjective. Key word. People "like." Not are supposed to like because of whatever rules some weird person or group decided made good food. Its not a coincidence that a lot, if not most professionally trained chefs and those that worship them all think the same things are good or bad food wise. Its a person who lacks personality and confidence that looks to others to tell them what they should enjoy eating.

And it is an arrogant one that suggests that someone only "thinks" they can cook, but cant really, its just average or even bad, ONLY because it wasn't made professionally, despite the fact that they themselves and many others enjoy their food more than a restaurant meal. And especially when one has no knowledge of that persons home cooking. It is only because they are not professional cooks that make them inferior. Really really odd way of thinking.

"Sure, but not all homemade pies are great -- even those when the baker thinks they're great." That was my whole point...not all homemade pies are great, neither are all bakery pies. But if you put up a great homemade pie against a great bakery pie, I think the homemade pie would probably win.

I suppose there are bakeries that make the crust by hand, one or two pies at a time, use fresh local fruit or other ingredients, etc. that could mimic a great homemade pie, but most are limited by volume and time to use other methods. I think some diner type restaurants do make their pies like someone would make in home kitchens, but I think we were talking strictly bakeries.

No reason to continue the banter, whether sincere or, as likely, simply intended to try to be obnoxious.

Oh, I didn't think you were trying to be obnoxious.

"Flavor, quality and taste are not strictly subjective."

Flavour and taste are absolutely subjective - quality has some external standards that don't rely on preferences.

I suppose there are bakeries that make the crust by hand, one or two pies at a time, use fresh local fruit or other ingredients, etc. that could mimic a great homemade pie,

I think that's what those of us who like bakery pies (and cakes and pastries) are talking about. I have a friend who is an excellent baker and I love the things she makes, but even she admits that the seasonal peach pie from one of our local bakeries is unrivaled. And the complex French pastries made by another local place can be quite difficult to do at home.

I agree about some French Pastries. I've never had homemade that could rival a quality bakery. The process can be so complex and time consuming that not too many home cooks even try.

There are some processes and sometimes ingredients that it is not possible for the home baker to get. Professional bakery equipment can be difficult to replicate. Most of us don't have the proofers and ovens that creates certain bread and pastry textures. Still you can replicate to a degree. We have a small proofer and a convection oven (with baking and roasting features) that make a difference and also a wood fired oven out in the yard. They have special yeasts and enhancers that you just cant get. Still you can make your own yeasts. You can use really soft ripe fruit. You can make combinations that they haven't thought of. If you are a really good baker it could be a push as to what is best. And there is always the fact that we do not live where Elmer lives so we are lost. Oh well.

Of course none of this has a thing to do with the OP. I was taught to cook on a wood fired cook stove. it has its strengths and weaknesses. Great for some things like biscuit but not the best for delicate baking like cake. So it goes.

As per the OP there are other things besides cooking. I was taught the roles of males and females. I haven't stuck with any of that. I disagreed as a child. My sainted Grannie thought men were gods. She was wrong. My mother could fix anything but she would pretend my father did it. My father believed he could fix anything but if that includes taking a nap while your wife fixed the problem I am not on board. So many cultural tropes.

I don't think I do too many things like my parents did. My Mom wasn't much of a cook but she was a wonderful baker. She made the best pastry for her butter tarts, lemon meringue pies and she was known for her date nut loaf. People still talk about her pastry. Me, I can't make a good pastry for the life of me. I don't think I do anything the same way my Dad did except I am stubborn like he was.

My parents split up when I was a teenager still in school and my younger brother and I stayed with our Dad. As I got into my 20s I realized I didn't want to be chief cook and bottle washer so I moved far across the country. I moved back when I was offered a good job. My Dad had moved out of the house and my younger brother was in the process of moving so I had the house to live in rent free. Eventually, after a few years my Mom left the situation she was in and since she was half owner of the house she moved back home. Here I was at 30 years old having a Mother again telling me what to do or what time I should be home. Over the years I had changed the house, redecorated to my taste, etc. She moved back home and put everything back the way it was years before she had left us right down to the same wall paper and frilly princess curtains in the kitchen window. I sure don't do the things the way my Mom did. I stayed with her because it was the easiest option and I was travelling all the time so wasn't home much. Then she got Alzheimer's and it was decided by the "sisters" I would be the one to care of her. I think the only thing I did that was the same as my Mom was to decorate the mantle at Christmas the same way with the same items she had used since we were children. Over the years I still use some of the items but have added and taken some away but in general it is still my Moms way of decorating the mantle. I think I do more things like my Aunt who taught me to cook. I still peel the tough skin off of broccoli stems like she did and that always makes me smile whenever I do it. My Aunt's daughter moved in with me a few years ago and she asked me why I peel the broccoli, I tell her that is how her Mom taught me to prepare it among other things she taught me.