Please get an independant KD architects in my experience are relly not good at kitchen design in fact often not good at any interior design

Start over. Start with the fact you won't be able to open the door to the fridge against that wall : )

Consider a move of dining function to the living room. Then start over.

I live in an old house, so I understand the limitations you're facing. I also have narrower than recommended aisles and my DW is between the sink and range. Read the following links and decide if the compromises are worth the time and expense of the new plan verses a variation of the current plan. If you decide to go ahead with the new plan, make sure you check the specs on the fridge because, as Jan mentioned, it doesn't look as if the door on the left will open fully against the wall. Also, it doesn't look as if you've included a return panel for the left side of the DW, which you'll need to support the countertop.

NKBA guidelines

New to Kitchens? Read me first.

This is akitchen in a 1905 house .I think what you need is a KD who can think outside the box so stay away from cabinet sales people who cannot.This was my kitchen in Calgary and I am a KD.

You need a KD not an architect. What he designed is no better than what you had. In fact it's worse. At least in the original kitchen you had a prep area. Now you don't.

Hint: You take food out of fridge/pantry, move it to sink to rinse, then prep between sink and cooktop. You don't create extra steps by rinsing the food, then having to carry it across the aisle to the island to prep and then carry it back again to the cooktop like in the architect's version.

Second hint: Bad that the dishwasher is between the sink and cooktop. Now imagine trying to prepare a meal while a helper is trying to load the dishwasher.

Thanks for the feedback so far! I’ll take every bit of it into account.

@course411, thank you especially for taking the time to sketch out your idea. That’s very close to another idea we looked at and I will keep your drawing in mind.

@mamagoose, thanks for acknowledging the challenges that come with old homes. I appreciate the info you shared and will read it carefully.

Some thoughts:

• The refrigerator against the wall is the first thing I noticed when I saw this plan. There is 36” allotted for it, so I’m hoping I could add a a few inches of filler or narrow vertical storage on the left side (e.g. for cutting boards, baking sheets). Overall I do like this refrigerator placement for the space. But, yes, all doors must open.

• I recognize that this layout breaks a basic rule by putting the range between the stove and refrigerator. I thought the prep sink could help alleviate that.

There is a 2nd concept that has the sink in the island. Maybe that would be an improvement? I’ll post that plan when I’m not on my phone.

• I agree that the island seating placement is not ideal and I’d like to either move it or eliminate it

• Overall this plan incorporates everything I had on my wishlist. I really like having an island (seating would be a plus), I’d prefer the sink below the window, a beverage area would be practical for us, and I’d prefer to not have the microwave above the range. Plus I’d really like to get rid of the pantry. But maybe I need to reconsider some of the items on my wish list and how they actually work in this space.

Thanks again for to everyone for your help, and for giving me much to think about!

Here s a slightly different version that has the sink in the island. It solves a few of the issues mentioned above but creates some new ones.

And here is a revision that fixed some of the things that were bugging me. This shows seating on the larger side of the island, coffee/beverage station moved across from the pantry, and microwave placed in a small prep area next to entrance.

Call me crazy but I think this would work well for my family. There are a few work stations spread across the space which I think would help with our daily routine.

The dishwasher between the stove and sink is not ideal, but we are already living with that and it's OK. Spacing is certainly tighter than I'd want it to be but I need to figure out the best tradeoffs.

Is this heading in a better direction?

Still very poor!

Your dishwasher is between your sink and cooktop. You need a minimum of 36" between the two for prepping. That's only 24"

When you have dirty dishes where do you expect to put them before loading them into the DW because there's no room on the right side of the sink,

You have the trash on the island. So everytime you're prepping, you're going to turn 180 degrees to throw trash in the garbage?

What's the point of the sink by the microwave?

You do not have room for seating at the island.

I will repeat what I said before. YOU NEED A KITCHEN DESIGNER. Not a store cabinet sales person but a true kitchen designer. Otherwise you're wasting your time with all these poor designs, (Sorry for being so blunt.)

What is the width of the room? Too hard to read

I love the new kitchen. Only thing I'd have an issue with is the laundry/powder room area.

cpartist, no worries about the blunt feedback! I can take it.

The version with the island in the sink “fixes” the dishwasher issue and provides a good amount of prep space next to the stove. But I like that layout less b/c I would rather have a full island to prep on.

Maybe I have really low standards because our current dishwasher is between the stove and sink, and it’s fine :) My current trash is even further away from the sink and it never bothered me. I’ve spent most of my life in old homes, so I can live with the quirks. (But we also have a 2nd home that’s newer construction, so I know the pleasure of working in a spacious kitchen that follows modern rules!)

Re: the prep sink, that could be omitted. But I thought it would be handy since it’s common in my house that one person is doing dishes while the other needs to quickly use the sink to rinse produce, wash hands, etc. I thought it could be an “out of the way” prep station for school lunches, etc.

The beverage fridge could also go, and I can let go of having island seating (although I would really love it!)

The current kitchen, before changing any walls, is 12” wide.

I will likely bring in a kitchen designer but wanted to explore some different ideas first. We have even looked at moving the kitchen to a different room but the current location (with all its constraints) still seems to work the best.

@er612, don’t get me started on the powder room area. That’s a whole other story but you should see how bad it is now!

Maybe I have really low standards because our current dishwasher is between the stove and sink, and it’s fine :) My current trash is even further away from the sink and it never bothered me. I’ve spent most of my life in old homes, so I can live with the quirks. (But we also have a 2nd home that’s newer construction, so I know the pleasure of working in a spacious kitchen that follows modern rules!)

I too lived mostly in old homes my whole life. I grew up in a 1920's colonial then my first old home I owned was a 1927 bungalow and that and my current kitchen, were the two the best layouts ever. Why? Because if followed good layout principles. It was an L shape without an island since the room was too small for an island. However, on the left was the fridge, then the DW, then the sink and on the short end of the L was the stove.

I've also cooked in poorly designed older kitchens and trust me the difference is night and day.

Take the time to find a real kitchen designer and work with him/her to get a kitchen that will work. Why would you pay 5 figures of your hard earned money for you just to "live with the quirks" versus having something that daily is a pleasure to work in?

Re: the prep sink, that could be omitted. But I thought it would be handy since it’s common in my house that one person is doing dishes while the other needs to quickly use the sink to rinse produce, wash hands, etc. I thought it could be an “out of the way” prep station for school lunches, etc.

How can it be an out of the way prep station when everything would have to be carried to and from the fridge? Most days I make myself a sandwich for lunch. I can't imagine trying to juggle the bread, the peanut butter, the jelly, the plate etc to that prep station and back again. Yes to doing it on the island, but...

The beverage fridge could also go, and I can let go of having island seating (although I would really love it!)

The current kitchen, before changing any walls, is 12” wide.

You don't even really have room for an island. 12' is = to 144". Cabinets take up 25.5" when you add countertops. 144" - 51" (the main counters plus the prep sink area) = 93".

You need a minimum of 42" for your work aisle IF no one is helping in the kitchen.

93" - 42" = 51".

An island with seating is a minimum of 42" so that would leave you only 9" for a walkway between the island and the prep sink area.

I will likely bring in a kitchen designer but wanted to explore some different ideas first. We have even looked at moving the kitchen to a different room but the current location (with all its constraints) still seems to work the best.

A good KD will come out, measure, check everything out and really brainstorm with you.

@er612, don’t get me started on the powder room area. That’s a whole other story but you should see how bad it is now!

Hahaha! The joys of living in an old house. Gotta love them. I know I do and if I wasn't up there in age, and could have found another one that hadn't been complete remuddled in terms of layout, I wouldn't have built new. (Although I did build a new craftsman that actually wound up in The Old House Journal.)

Might be crazy— but it seems you’ve got a living, family room, sitting room, dining room— could you move the kitchen in the space labeled dining room? It appears to be larger and is not subject to so much traffic. Dining room could go in current kitchen or current living room.

What about something like this for the powder/laundry?

cpartist, thanks for taking the time to share your perspective. I remember your threads about your home and know you speak from experience!

rainyseason, good suggestion and we considered moving the kitchen into the dining room. In the end, there wasn’t enough contiguous wall space to make it worthwhile.

er612, I really appreciate you putting those ideas together. Very helpful to see the different options!

Where do the double doors in the dining room lead to?

And where do the french doors lead to and more importantly are they original to the house?

Lastly do you have any pics of the kitchen as is?

The double doors in the dining room lead to a deck.

The french doors separate the living room from the kitchen. They are not original to the house, but the house originally had a door there. The purpose is to let light into the room, and to keep our cat contained at night.

Here are pictures of the current layout (with the previous owners' stuff). Trust me, it looks a lot worse in real life!

Dining room is an addition?

How large is living room? Is it a double living room parlor?

The dining room is not an addition but the family room is. We looked at moving the kitchen into either of those rooms but it just didn't work.

The living room is quite large and, yes, double. There is a fireplace with built in seating on one side and a larger seating area on the other side. I don't have dimensions handy but would guess that the living room is is at least 24' wide. The front door opens to the living room, and the kitchen is straight ahead (entrance visible from front door).