Don’t leave us hanging!!

Some conclusions:

1. In re weather think summer in Charleston would be too hot, so we would either need a pool (which I didn't want to do) or would have to abandon the place LOL. That's ok, as we'd probably be in Maine May-Oct.

2. The city of Charlestown:

We loved a lot about Charleston, especially the restaurants and the architecture. We also liked nearby Mt Pleasant (10-15 min away) and Sullivan's Island (another 10 min away). The airport is nice and very convenient. The people were genuinely friendly. We liked it a lot. Some cons, to us:

- It had a little bit more of a "spring break" vibe to it that I did not like, but that may be due to the fact that it was grad season... some public drunkenness and drug dealing on King St.

- For the prices of RE and everything else, the infrastructure is scruffy ... pock marked sidewalks, trash, poorly paved streets ... I guess low taxes gets you less pristine public works than I expect

- The gun culture was something I hadn't thought of. Signs on stores saying "no concealed weapons" were jarring to me

- One pol has lawn signs and along the bottom it said " you-know-who endorsed." We have ample R's in CT and in Maine ... but I have never seen a sign like that. I might not find peeps I can identify with (or they with me) if they are very pro-that-guy.

3. Charleston has historic housing stock similar to Boston, but less costly. It is hard to match directly, but an historic 2BR 2BA with out door space is 1.6 to 1.8 in Charleston. and maybe 1.8 to 2.0 in Boston. Not compelling. Savannah is about 1/3rd less than Charlestown, so maybe that is worth a look.

In re taxes, I think I learned this before, and the forgot it. Property taxes in SC are ~ $8000 on a $1,600,000 house, if you are a full time SC resident (pay your taxes, register you car, and vote in SC). If you are not a resident, taxes are ~3X that, so $24,000 on $1,600,000. That rate of taxation is only a bit less than the property tax mill rates in our area. (BTW some people will tell you the difference is 4% vs 6% but that is not fully accurate; non residents pay 3x the tax not 1.5x)

And get this, if you rent your house out more than 72 days a year (say, for the summer), you will also have to pay non-resident property tax rates.

The income tax benefits of residing in SC may be attractive to some but it looked like it phased out quickly IIRC.

Outside of Charleston, most of what we saw was in HOAs. I don't care so much about the rules of HOAs, but I do care about exorbitant costs. For a property we would go to 4 or 5 months a year. For example, on our last day we toured a lovely community in Bluffton. (shout out to SCIrish!) It's just outside HHI and Bluffton and has a charming little downtown. In one case, w looked a a $2mn home in a golf community (about 3000 sq ft, the smallest one there). HOA fees were $2400 a month, for things we would use only a few months a year or at all. But that is not uncommon. What did strike us as uncommon was a $60,000 transfer fee when you buy any house (not a function of price) in the community, plus a $20,000 assessment for a new gym being built. Umm, what? Not a huge % of the price, but still? Moreover the place was literally a ghost town. We toured for probably 20 min and saw no signs of life on a lovely afternoon. It is true what they say; the pricier the neighborhood the emptier the homes.

4. Charleston is an attractive destination year round, so we could rent out our home when we are not there

Not really First, not more than 72 days a year or your property taxes triple. And the terms has to be at least 15 days. Moreover, there are many limitations on short term rentals (ie under a year). In the city of Charleston. Most condos do not allow them. And most of the places you would want to live outside of Charlestown are in HOA's that also do not allow them or restrict them (eg, no rentals under 28 days).

Now for the funner part.

This home really pulled at my heartstrings. It is nestled back behind a larger home (now condos). It had a cute little path. I liked the area, the block. I loved the decor. Uber charming. I could move in tomorrow.

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/55-Laurens-St-Apt-A_Charleston_SC_29401_M53494-57023

Now, the reality. When you look at the first photo, the porches you see on the left are on another neighboring home. And the house is broken in to 2 parts; the downspout on the right is essentially the dividing line. It only has 1.5 baths, and the one bath is not ensuite. No easy way to fix that either. The storage space is literally non existent. The bedroom closets are not even standards size/depth; they don't even hold hangers in them. The outdoor space is pretty, but small (won't fit more than what you see) and not private. A path goes right by it, to the people in the other half of the house and to the... wait for it ... little building at the back where the laundry is (one washer and one dryer). There is no laundry in the unit itself!?

I'm a sucker for charm but talk about fatal flaws!

PS sorry don't know why "they" aren't letting me post photos. Maybe I am being punished.

The gun culture was something I hadn't thought of. Signs on stores saying "no concealed weapons" were jarring to me

From what I remember reading last summer, this is to do with SC's new open carry law that went into effect last summer. Private property and business owners can prohibit firearms on their premises as long as they have signs clearly noting the ban at their entrances. So I would probably be more concerned at stores that DON'T have signs...

I hope you and DH had a fun trip. For all the housing control bits and costs, and some of the observed culture (no one around) — sigh.

Now those folks should write some strict legislative controls for a completely different area. ;)

To my surprise, the place we liked best and would consider is a planned development literally 10 minutes outside Charleston called I'on (named after a local signer of the declaration of independence.) It is a community along the concept of the famous Seaside, Florida and was also done by the famed architect duo Duany Plater-Zyberk. I've looked at their communities before but none fit us. For example, we aren't really beach people so we are not looking to have two homes in beach towns, which many of their projects have been. I love a lot of their work on the Panhandle, but that area is a pain to fly in and out of and not as culturally compelling for us as Charleston, for example.

Before we toured it, I was worried it would feel like Epcot or Disney. It does not, and being est.'d 25 years now surely helps. It has (intentionally) winding narrow streets, and small lots. There are pocket parks, squares, fountains, bridges. The rules include front porches and 10' ceilings. It is meant to evoke the prettiest streets in historic Charleston and it does. DH could not believe the homes were all less than 25 yr.s old (but surely liked that vs. the aged beauties we'd been touring and their attendant problems). We sat outside in their tiny "downtown" and very much liked the vibe. The HOA fees are very low; the swim/tennis club is optional but it itself is reasonable too.

You can rent, but only for 28 days or longer. So we could do one 44 day rental and one 28 and that would put us at the 72 day limit, if we chose to.

And, of course, it is less expensive that Charleston proper, but we liked the location. 10-15 min in one directions takes you to the city, the other direction to a barrier island and beach. The town itself has some very nice dining, a WF and a TJ, etc.

This is a little larger than we would want:

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/40-Montrose-Rd_Mount-Pleasant_SC_29464_M55063-75410?ex=2943510479

And this is a little smaller than we would want:

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/54-Joggling-St_Mount-Pleasant_SC_29464_M64284-60503?ex=2942022274

This concludes my term paper. : )

Becky, It is not an issue of the signs being good or bad, it is the fact that the signs exist at all.

Becky, It is not an issue of the signs being good or bad, it is the fact that the signs exist at all.

Trust me, I understand. I moved from NYC to rural Alberta almost 30 years ago. While there's a world of difference with gun legislation between Canada and the US, there's a lot here I'm still not used to or comfortable with after all this time.

Loving the homes you’re showing. I sure do understand your other concerns, I’ve lived among them a long time now.

Excited to follow along on the MtnRd house-hunting journey. :)

What I like the most about I'on compared to Seaside is the winter vibe the streets and houses have. Cozy over cookie cutter houses. And I love Seaside too, except it gives a summer vibe all year round. Does that make a lick of sense?

Yes it does. Summer communities can feel a tiny bit sad in the off season.

If we had to choose 2moro, which we don't, we both just felt comfortable and happy in I'on. I think we will just have to see how things play out with the kids, the house, my job, and then decide. We will probably due diligence in Savannah too.

Right now we are 99% sure we will make Maine our family residence and get a small place for winters either:

1. City life in Boston

2.The Charleston (or Savannah) area

3. Senior nomads --- a different choice each year. Maybe Southern Europe, maybe Mexico. Two issues with this strategy: our dog and all our extra furniture (though what do they say... you own your stuff don't let it own you?)

As a 30-year resident of Mt Pleasant... I'On is lovely, and I've thought of it often when following along with the Boston saga, because you get the charm plus the mod cons.

And I have to say that the "no concealable weapons" signs are so common that I barely notice them. But I feel like they've been around for many years.

I’on is gorgeous! Did you see Newpoint in Beaufort? It’s another Duany project, very similar.

CofC was most likely having grad weekend and/or end of finals…hence the partying. I’ve never seen it crazy like that with the students…but we usually don’t stay near the college and King St.

That stinks about the tax implications. 😩 I know most places with a HOA really want to limit short term rentals bc no one wants to live next to an Air B&B. I imagine I’on is the primary home for most of the residents.

Glad you enjoyed your trip! You packed a lot into a few days. If you need to go back to look further or to look in Savannah over the next few months, I know you know that it will be HOT. Languid, steamy, walk-out-the-door and sweat HOT. I actually love the low country in summer bc it just feels so authentic😂 but you kind of have to gear up for touring in 70+ degree dew points and 95+ degree air temps. It’s soupy.

It’s funny about the infrastructure/maintence….you don’t really think about it if you’re from there (sort of the ”arrogantly shabby” vibe, lol ) but having just come from a week in Nantucket….they DEFINITELY spit polish the main town!! I’m a light sleeper, and woke up to the sounds of the street washing trucks EVERY morning at 5:30am. 😂 (we stayed at a historic inn right in the center of town.) Everything was so beautiful & pristine. Dh said it was like a ride called ”New England-town Land” at Disney. 😂 Loved it…I’m buying a house in Sconset when I win the lotto (which will be a feat, since I don‘t play it.😂) I think we saw a 700’ ”cottage” (shed) for 10,000,000….Dreamy, though…

One thing you didn't mention is Charlestonians...the ones we met thought they were the only "chosen people" on earth and looked down on *everyone* who wasn't Charlestonian. Even a friend's wife, who was DAR and direct descendent of John C. Calhoun was considered to be "trash" by the Charlestonian women...a shock to her as she was always most welcomed in southern society and looked down on others, especially Yankees! Bless her heart!

My sister and BIL live in Mt. Pleasant, I think I've shared that before. They own a condo in the city of Charleston, which they rent - long-term. It's only the two of them, but they bought a 5-bedroom home(one is now an office/library) so they could get a brick house. They felt it more secure due to hurricanes. For several years that house was a vacation home and they had a home here in TN. Now they are in SC full time. They've been through a hurricane, thankfully very minimal damage. As for the carry permits and signs on businesses - I honestly didn't notice but one when we were in Charleston/Mt. Pleasant a few weeks ago. I can't say that I've seen any of the signs in my area although I have seen very few people carrying and only one of those was in an establishment. I do think the South/North are drastically different on gun views (not seeing either is right or wrong) and that may take some getting used to. Sadly, yes, you will see some of those certain political signs - which makes me none too happy : ( We took a quickie weekend trip this weekend and driving along a backroad, saw a BARN with the same type endorsement.

The Charleston winters can sometimes get a bit cold, even snow flurries or a trace! They had a blizzard back in 2018! (not really only a bit over 5 inches LOL) and summers can be very hot. We have gone there for years (funny my sister is the one who moved there), but never go from mid-May to mid October.

Good luck on your search and I hope you keep sharing! Oh and yes, Bluffton is adorable! We also like Georgetown, SC and especially McClellanville, SC.

@mtnrdredux_gw So interesting to hear your take on SC. What you want (60 degrees is warm enough in the winter) and what you found are very similar to what I found in my research so far - that whole thing with the HOAs, transfer fees, etc. Seems like it is or could easily get out of control. We wouldn't rent our home and we'd establish residency as we'd like to escape our high tax state so the property tax thing wouldn't be an issue for us. As far as Annie's comments about Charlestonians - there are so many places where people are from other areas that I don't think that would be much of a problem especially if you're looking outside of Charleston. By the way we have the no concealed weapons signs all over MN and we are not a conservative gun toting state by any sense of the imagination. It had something to do with how the conceal and carry law was written that led businesses to put up those signs.

I wondered how you would find Charleston visiting as a potential buyer. Agree completely about the guns and crumbling / tatty infrastructure.... sadly, both of which you would find in Atlanta also and Savannah, but with far more public drunkenness in Savannah. L’On sounds like a better fit for you if you can find a house that suits.

Friends of mine spent a couple of winters renting a condo for a month in N. Myrtle Beach...up on the 14th floor overlooking the ocean... a 2 br place that was very inexpensive because it was off season and you had full use of the facilities...pool, gym, etc. They have family in NC so their grands were able to visit. But they don't do it any more. I think they got bored with the place after the 2nd year.

the ones we met thought they were the only "chosen people" on earth and looked down on *everyone* who wasn't Charlestonian. I can honestly say we have not encountered that, and we have been going to the area for years. There are so many "transplants" in the area too as many have moved there (as least part-time) from other states.

@Annie Deighnaugh what caused your friends' boredom? Myrtle Beach is not our place at all. So different from Charleston and some of the other islands/beaches. I believe crime has become a bit of a problem in some areas too. N. Myrtle is a bit better. But there is all kinds of entertainment, restaurants, shopping, etc. Winters can/do get quite chilly though. We have thought of doing that (going away for month or two) in the coldest of our winter, but would head further south to enjoy warmer temps.

FWIW, if you are bothered by dampness, winters in Charleston will not be comfortable. Also, most places have heat pumps which are a poor way of heating a house.

We lived a little farther south on the GA coast. For me, the winter lows of 45 degrees with 70 percent humidity often felt more bone-chilling than 25 degrees with low humidity winters of my youth.

My cousin and her husband moved from NYC to Savannah several years ago and they love it. They are serial remodelers and they are on their third house there, this one is near Forsythe Park and they have a city lot large enough that they have a pool but I think that's not usual (typical for my cousin!) and it was featured in Savannah Magazine They eventually sold their NYC apartment and settled there full time and got involved in the local political scene (it's very Blue there) and made a great group of friends. I visited a few years ago in February and everything was blooming but they leave town and travel during the summer months. Full disclosure: they're loaded!

Looking at the satellite map of I’on (and I really do need information on that name), I can’t help but wonder about flooding. I suppose it can’t be too bad, given the cargoyard, but still…

After reading all the replies of the pro's and con's of areas you are looking, there seems to be no such thing as a truly perfect area to live. Saying that though, the neighborhoods you have picked have some good eye candy of homes. So, I will happily follow along for viewing these beauties. Please post often.

I love my state but as far as interesting homes with character, they are few and far between so I will live through you. In the locations I'm looking and within my price range, homes are downright ugly. Haven't bought anything yet, sigh. We have our own set of pro's and con's, all good during the winter and spring, horribly hot in the summer with Hurricane threats. Other than that (and the packed issue) its great here, very diverse # 1 in Cuban population, # 1 Venezuelan population, #1 Haitian population. Close tie for the ten slot of Mexican population in the U.S and # 2 for non-Hispanic single race blacks. Seems everyone is fleeing here. Did I mention the packed issue lol. Sometimes it makes me so sad at how packed we are getting here.

Thanks for sharing, Mtn. Interesting on the taxes-I tend to assume the South has lower taxes, but obviously it varies.

I think they got bored with the place after the 2nd year.

I think one thing we decided on this trip is it has to be in or very near a larger city like Charleston (or Savannah maybe). That should reduce the culture shock.

I tend to assume the South has lower taxes, but obviously it varies.

I get why they want to charge second homeowners 3x the taxes but it is quite distasteful and I wonder if it is even Constitutional. That would surely make upspopular though; make a federal case out of it! Give DH something to do LOL.

LOL Jterri, where do all the retirees fit into that? It is interesting how the housing stock differs so much around the country. Hope you find something soon.

As far as a perfect place (for us) my DH's friends says "Cheap, Warm or Blue;" pick any two.

Bpath, Flooding is a big issue in the area. But several areas are not in flood plains, and think that includes most of I'on.

I'on is such an unusual name. The first letter is an "i" and so it is pronounced "ion" like in science class. But it is the family name of the first local mayor. I could have sworn I'd read he was a signer of the Declaration but I just went down a rabbit hole reading about them and no, he was not. "Jacob Bond I'On...was the first mayor of the Town of Sullivan's Island. A monument to I'On erected in the 19th century stands" in I'on.

Kitchenwitch, very good to know, thanks! Savannah is a bargain and I have to wonder why (or maybe for how long). I love SCAD. You know... it would be nice to vote in a state where it mattered!

Dee, we def have to go back in Jan or Feb to get a sense.

Tina, wherever one goes, there will be people that are welcoming and those who are not. But so many of these places have become magnets for people contemplating exactly what we are, I am sure we will find kindred spirits in our own little "expat" community.

@mtnrdredux_gw oh but of course! We personally have not felt the atmosphere mentioned above. My sister and BIL have felt very welcomed in the area.

That is good to know, and we certainly felt people were warm to us just in everyday interactions. I'm sure some might not like Yankees, LOL, but I doubt it would rise to the level of a problem.

A few more responses to the comments about the social culture in Charleston ....

As to dislike of Yankees, that's a thing too .... partly based on the many who come here (not just from the North!) who are very full of themselves and full of "how we did it [wherever]".

On the other hand, Mt Pleasant had 10,000 people when we moved here in 1993 ... and has nearly 100,000 now. Nearly everyone in I'On is a transplant! MtP is definitely one of the Bluer parts of SC; and one of the most homogeneous.

@vc01 I remember when Isle of Palms was so less crowded. For a beach we really prefer Kiawah or Seabrook. My sister showed us beach access on Sullivans. : ) They live in a smallish neighborhood that backs up to a golf course. They are on a cul-de-sac with only 3 houses and they are the middle house with - guess what - neighbors on each side from up north. This past Thanksgiving she and my BIL did not come here as they were coming Christmas. Her sweet neighbors (one neighbor is the parents of the other neighbors) invited them for Thanksgiving Dinner. So kind.

I want to say, thanks to everyone for posting. Input from people I trust who have no bias is really really helpful.

And yes, VC, I didn't want to point fingers, but sometimes people don't like "Yankees" or transplants from anywhere because they do bring their own attitudes.

Wait! Wait Mtn! ~ What area of my little corner of the world did you see? Was it just you and DH, or did you sort of tour with a realtor? A gated community? ~ Asking because we are in a gated community, have "transfer fees", pay extra taxes because it is our 2nd home, NEVER EVER rent it out (even our kids don't go there if we're not there.....a long story) but after more than 20 years, still love it. Almost everyone in our midst are transplants. Some consider their homes their primary and are SC residents (we are not) and more than half find somewhere to "escape" during the summer months. We head back to Wisconsin! For a number of years, we maintained 2 homes eventually down-sizing our northern home to a condo. DH is still working.

Mtn, I would imagine you and DH surely escaping to Maine during the hot/humid months....why wouldn't you? Also, I also imagine you living a fine life surrounded by fine things wherever you decide is right for you, and therefore might consider NOT renting it out. ~ OK.....now tell me where you were in Bluffton??? Dish!

SC!

We lunched in Beaufort and ditched our plans for a bike ride because it was in the 90s and very strong sun; the convertible suited us better! On a lark after lunch we went to peak at Bluffton and HHI. We stopped in your sweet downtown, at the dock by the old brown church? We liked it. I looked on my phone and saw a few places that could be of interest. I just called the realtor listed and she met us there. We went to https://www.colletonriverclub.com/

This was good due diligence but not really why we came to SC. The reason we were looking at Charleston is marrying the kind of historic urban center I want with not-cold winters for DH. A golf community isn't really that, tho DH loves to golf. I haven't golfed in 10yrs and never liked it anyway. The clothes were cute.

As far as renting, I never would have believed I'd rent any home of mine. And our Maine house was certainly not set up for it; with $$ everyday dishes, Quadrille slipcovers and white duck upholstery everywhere!

We were in Europe when the realtor who lives across the street from us in Maine convinced us to rent our house. She vets them, they stay 2 weeks at a time, leave hefty deposits and of course pay for all cleaning. It has been seamless. I would only rent to renters who stay 2-4 weeks in any event; that tends to be people much like ourselves. At this point there are 3 families who come; down to two now because one of them bought nearby!

NEVER EVER rent it out (even our kids don't go there if we're not there.....a long story)

whaaaat? Now you have to dish!

Colleton River....UGH! ~ Sorry. Anyway, when we first dipped our toes in Hilton Head real estate, we had a condo on the ocean.....beautiful sunrise views, ocean breezes, right on the beach. We allowed our newly wedded daughter and her husband to spend a week at the condo during the summer. He loved falling asleep to sounds of ocean; she loved the A/C. Reflected in electricity bill! When they left, (mid July) they failed to close the bedroom window. We returned the end of Sept. to find any leather shoes, purses, belts, etc. covered in green mold!!!! Not to mention the padding under the carpet! Next move was to a townhouse on the island and thinking they had learned their lesson, we again allowed their use. This time, she washed bed linens, towels, (white) and the beach towels (blue/gold/red) tossed them in the dryer for 30 minutes, hit "dry" and departed. We returned 2 months later to "striped" linens, etc and again the ugly moldy smell. THUS, when we bought the house in Bluffton, they visited and HIS first words upon visiting us were: "Let's see....this place sleeps 8, that's 2 foursomes (golf)......let the golf outtings begin!!!"

OVER MY DEAD BODY! We have 3 kids (8 grands) If we allow one family, we can't not allow another, so our 'family' rule is none of the kids use our home if we're not there. I actually am not aware of any family whose kids might be there when owners are not other than the only time we evacuated for hurricane and a friends daughter used their house because their home on the island had been hit.

No worries, Colleton is nice but not my speed. DH liked the 5 mile drive back through the wooded preserves to get to the houses; I said well then you can pick up the groceries!

Oh my about the kids using the house! We always have our caretaker go in and look around every week at both houses. Since they are both c early 1900s, too much can go wrong! We also have our housecleaner come in when people leave, which solves a lot of issues!

I hear ya. We have the house checked by our "house-checker" twice a week when we are gone from Bluffton. Have only recently hired a house cleaner (I'm getting too old!!) and even then, only occasionally. Therefore, I wouldn't feel right paying for a house cleaner because of my son-in-laws thoughtlessness. He already wrongly assumes I MUST have a weekly housecleaner and thus assumes whatever mess he makes.....someone will pick up after him. Can't imagine how golfing friends would treat our house by his example. Not worth the risk. We have a checklist of duties to perform prior to departure and failing to do every single one could result in damages. We just feel better being there if they want to visit.

Sheesh! I don't blame you.