Adding it to my Burlington Roses list…. Carol

Scrumptious, Jeri!

I wanted this one until I read on hmf that it suckers.

Lovely!

Erasmus . . . It has never suckered here that I have noticed. In 20 years or so, so that's a good trial.

But -- say it did.

Why would that deter you?

An occasional free extra plant is a bonus, or so I think.

I wish ours WOULD sucker!

Jeri, you must not have any suckerers that get out of hand. Shailer's Provence, Duchesse de Buccleugh, Banshee, and Ruth's German want to take over entire beds. When they come up in and around other roses, choking them out it gets old. Maybe Old Town Novato is not a bad suckerer or maybe it would be bad here.

@erasmus_gw

Linda, I just checked HMF and did not see a report of suckering, just tip rooting. Could you tell me, was the suckering info in Description or Comments? I did read that OTN is quite disease resistant with maybe just some lower leaf blackspotting later in the season. That’s a big plus!

Carol

PS Suckers: My Charles de Mills is staying in his nursery pot!

I have grown Gallicas. I understand suckering. Multiflora rootstock can do that here, as well.

But if OTN has not suckered here in . . . Oh, gosh MORE than 20 years, I don't think it's going to be a fearful suckerer. Nor did it sucker in the Sacramento City Cemetery. So that notation really seems . . . odd.

Here's the quote from a comment in the pictures section:

ose photo courtesy of Cass

"Bush Form, Growth Habit And Armature Growth habit is upright, with rather thin, narrow canes ending in blooms at the top. The plant suckers as freely as can be expected without any irrigation six months a year. The canes are well-armed with numerous straight and falcate dark brown prickles."

If the plant suckers SOME in a dry climate and no irrigation it strikes me as possible that it would sucker worse here. I like the rose and am sure I'd find a lot to appreciate in it but I am truly wary of suckering. No matter how great a rose is the suckering habit outweighs the positives. It could be grown in a pot with a saucer underneath it I suppose. But I believe you, Jeri, that it doesn't sucker for you. I think you get a lot less rain than I do.

I just got this Linda, so can tell you if it starts suckering. I just got it, so it may be a few years.

I'd love to hear how it does for you , Alana. I think it's safe to assume that roses behave differently in different locations. It is so nice to have hmf to hear comments from people in many different areas. I also appreciate some of the ugly pics of roses as much as the glamour shots.

I have wanted Old Town Novato and still might want it but thug roses are no joke and the thugs I have had are quite hard to dig out once they get going. Charles de Mills is a thug for some people but is not such a bad suckerer here. Shailer's Provence is my worst suckerer though I still can enjoy the blooms. Would not plant it again. Need a few acres to allow for one like that so it can be stuck in an out of the way place.

Beautiful thing, Jeri! Lovely photo too!

Charles de mills hasn't gone crazy for me either. I do love my Shailer's , even if she's a big girl. It is definitely all about location. I will definitely let you know how OTN does here, he may be in the wrong place if he suckers, we will see.

"Old Town Novato" does not sucker.

This is silly.

I see now that the HMF description (written by??) says: ”Tall, arching, armed with thorns / prickles, bushy, suckers on its own roots, upright. Large, matte, medium green, fragrant foliage. 3 to 7 leaflets.” (In addition to the comment by Cass that you quoted, Linda.) I wonder if ”suckers on its own roots” was added after Cass‘ experience…or was it original to the text when OTN was first listed on HMF?

Completely different rose, but my 18-year-old Rose de Rescht started suckering after 7-8 years while others on the forum with mature RdR plants say that they have never experienced spreading through baby volunteers popping up around the mother plant. BUT 20 years is a long time for a potentially ”suckering plant” not to sucker at all. In my experience, suckering plants sucker sooner or later, more or less, closer or farther to the main plant, etc., but they usually sucker in some way…eventually. So, Jeri your experience with OTN as a non suckering rose after 20 years matches my own experiences with non suckering roses. But not Cass’ experience with her sucking OTN. (Inserting puzzled face.)

Isn’t there an OTN plant in the San Jose Rose Garden?

Carol

@portlandmysteryrose OTN is on the interactive catalog of The Heritage so that means there was a plant there. Whether it's there right now or not, someone will have to visit and look to determine.

I saw this post recently, Rose Garden Under-Appreciation Post, which made me worry about the state of the Heritage Garden. I haven't been down there in several years.

I don't see any reason to discount Cass' experience with it .

In my experience, there are roses that "sucker" (technically) and roses that REALLY sucker (like, an acre might not be enough). In the former category are hybrid perpetuals (like "Grandmother's Hat", my 'Rose du Roi' (of commerce, ex Vintage), "Rose de Rescht", and, likely, "Old Town Novato", that may (or not) send out new stems 6" to 12" from the main stem every few years or so and, thus, stay within a 3' footprint over decades even. Then there are the Gallica, Centifolia, etc. types, in the latter category, like the unnamed Centifolia moss I've grown for more than 20 years, 'La Belle Sultane', 'Tuscany', and 'Charles de Mills', that run like rabbits and send out suckers as much 6' from the main plant repeatedly, multiple times a year, and can end up many feet away from where they started in pretty short order. Without fail I take a shovel to that moss rose of mine multiple times a year (I keep it for sentimental reasons, though this climate isn't its best) to keep it within bounds and it still sneaks out. I agree that climate and soil type probably also play roles.

It looks like Cass is also listed on HMF as Cassandra Bernstein, the rustler who discovered OTN. Everybody else on this thread probably already knew this. So, Cass and OTN have a long term relationship. :-) Just like Jeri and OTN. I wonder how long it took OTN to sucker in Cass’ garden. The variance in OGR behaviors still fascinates me after years of growing them. This conversation also reminds me of a topic that I sorely wish HMF and OGR rose books always included, suckering tendencies by region (including soil info). It would be SO helpful! Obviously Jeri and Cass have two different experiences with the same rose. And the rose bed behavior is as varied as disease resistance is likely to be, depending on local pressures. Carol

PS Now I really am tempted to order OTN from Burling and either test it in my own garden or in my sister’s here in Portland.