It is specific to your state.

This excerpt is for the Carolinas.

https://monklegal.com/lawyer/2020/07/27/Estate-Administration/What-Happens-If-There-Is-No-Named-Executor-of-an-Estate_bl40613.htm

"If there is no named executor, a person, usually a friend, family member or another interested party, may come forward and petition the court to become the administrator of the estate by obtaining letters of administration. If no one comes forward on their own, the court may ask a person to serve as an administrator."

Generally, things get held up in court for a while, with a lot more paperwork. If you don't have anyone personally you want (or who is willing) to do it, there are professional trustees who will do it as well. They're usually bankers or lawyers, but you don't need to have a previous relationship with them i.e. they don't have to be your banker or lawyer. Professional executor services probably cost a bit more than a personal executor, of course, but I think it can be worth it to save a lot of stress. If you love someone, don't make them your executor, LOL.

It's so important to have a good executor especially with a sizeable estate. A bad executor can be a nightmare. Ask me how I know.

From what I can tell, it is simpler to have a living trust hold all of your assets with the trustee named within the trust. That trustee can be one of the recipients of the assets of the trust or it can be a non-inheriting third party. In almost any case, you can expect a non-inheriting trustee or executor to charge a fee which should be negotiated and ennumerated within the will or trust. Although the process varies depending on the laws of your particular state/country, I think the living trust solution allows you to bypass probate so is simpler and more cost effective.

"Generally, things get held up in court for a while,"

A properly planned and documented distribution of property at death never comes before a court in the US.

As others have said, the right approach (and the one that completely avoids the cost and delays of court-run probate) is to have a living trust. It does exactly the same things as a will, no more, no less, and but with the added plus of completely avoiding court administration.

Many lawyers who do estate planning are one-horse shops or in small partnerships. Most will act as trustees or if not, most certainly have lists of recommended others to use.

in this state, the executor of an estate is compensated monetarily the same amount as the lawyer ... no less.

"A properly planned and documented distribution of property at death never comes before a court in the US."

A will or trust isn't properly planned without an executor, so that's moot.

"A will or trust isn't properly planned without an executor"

Sorry, no, you misunderstood my comment as well as the topic.

Living trusts don't have an "executor"

"Properly planned" means simply having a signed document. It can be horribly planned and full of poor choices but if it's in writing and properly signed to create a living trust, it is not "held up in court" as you said. Because it is never before a court.

"Living trusts don't have an "executor""

True, they have a trustee -- essentially the same duties, but a different name.

""Properly planned" means simply having a signed document."

You and I have different definitions of proper planning.

“Hey *, does it make you feel like you're on higher ground to insult people whose views you disagree with? That diminishes what you say, it doesn't elevate it.”

A direct quote of you Elmer, with the name of your target removed. Perhaps you could look in the mirror.

Perhaps you could make your arguments without insults . And don’t flatter yourself to think that I or anyone here would want to stalk you.

I'm describing a recurring pattern. Use whatever word you wish.

"Your comment about getting "hung up in court" (for this predominantly American audience) wasn't well informed and your efforts to recover haven't been any different."

It's quite an assumption you've made thinking I have no experience with US courts and probate, just because I live in Canada.

There are "recurring patterns" on this forum. I learn from all of them. I just turned 70, and my dear mother just had her 90th birthday. She still lives indepently and drives, but she's a long way away from me. We support her financially - pay her mortgage, gave her our used RAV and when she needs maintenance on her house we pay her expenses for that, as well. I am the oldest, and only female, of her 6 children. Only 2 of my brothers are still living. When her husband died, I spent a month with her and we met with an attorney who specialized in elder law. He was so awesome. I'm confident with the approach he took and my husband and I need to do the same - although we don't have children we do feel strongly about leaving our hard work and good fortune to causes we are passionate about.

Talk about recurring patterns....

@Annie Deighnaugh Although I find Elmer annoying, I do learn from him...

seagrass, I try to learn from everyone. But even those who profess certain knowledge need to be fact checked.

Do you remember rumsfeld saying there are things we know and things we don't know and things we don't know we don't know? IMO, he missed what I consider the most important: things we think we know that we got wrong.

In this case, I'd love to see some data that backs up this statement: "the percentage who use wills that need court probate instead of living trusts that don't is VERY, VERY low. Very."

We don't have children, but we do have a will. This is an interesting question. We need to put the will on file, so to speak, with a lawyer. That's my take-away.

"In this case, I'd love to see some data that backs up this statement: "the percentage who use wills that need court probate instead of living trusts that don't is VERY, VERY low. Very.""

Yeah, I'd love to see that information.......the only data I could find was from 2016, and that said just 10% of those who've made estate plans have a living trust i.e. 90% have just a will, so if that dropped to something "VERY VERY low", it would be a significant change in just 5 or 6 years.

I agree with Toronto Veterinarian. We no longer have anyone to act as our executor and went the route of having the appropriate department of our bank be our executor. We had to use one of their approved lawyers - she was excellent.

We also live in Toronto.

It is important that you do not have an executor who is getting on in years (as in 70s and 80s) just in case. Certainly, people die who are much younger but you are taking a chance. We too are older, so this works for us in that younger people come and go in an organization but they will act as our executor once we both die. Should one of us predecease the other, we will act as executor for the deceased spouse provided the surviving spouse does not have dementia (if I am the one left, I do not want to live like that) and the bank trustee will only enter the picture when both of us die. We are to update the bank if something changes.

Note that pets are chattels in Canada - and I believe in the U.S. So often parents and grandparents die thinking that their beloved pets will be cared for by their families. In some cases they are, but in many others they are dumped at a rescue or the Humane Society.

The discussion has reached an end point for me with all the amateur experts sharing their expertise.

I'll only share my own experiences. There are a lot of state-specific differences. In California, we were advised to have home and major accounts held under a trust, and avoiding probate due to expensive costs. When we consulted an attorney for new wills here in PA, we were told that trusts were unnecessary, transferring house and other assets was not difficult or costly.

sushi, I question that advice. I believe living trusts are used in PA.

Difficulty vs ease of reconveyance to heirs is a secondary consideration but not the main reason for using a living trust. If the lawyer focused on that, it may be they missed the forest for the trees.

Edit to add:

Or was blowing smoke because from the lawyer's standpoint, convincing clients to use wills requiring probate instead of living trusts that don't provides a stream of future business FOR THEM.

I don't think so, Elmer. The laws really are different. Now, we only have a home and bank/brokerage accounts. If we owned income property or other assets, things could be different.

Elmer, I'm no expert here, but my mother had a revocable trust and was supposed to avoid probate, but guess what...it didn't...probate court still taxed us on her assets in this state and her state of residence as she had property in both. The only thing the trust did for me was allow me to manage her assets from day one rather than wait until they were probated and ownership transferred. So that at least was a blessing. The fact is probate laws are state laws so there are 50 different versions of them in the US and the laws and impacts differ in each state. I'd suggest anyone doing estate planning consult an attorney who specializes in estates in their state to find out what the best course of action is for their particular situation....assets, heirs, etc.

Unless there's something unusual going on in your state, probate courts do not "impose taxes". State law does that. Unpaid taxes, whether for inheritance, property, or income tax, as with all unpaid expenses, are debts of a decedent like all other that need to be paid from assets before the remainder is distributed to heirs. A probate court oversees and approves disbursements but except for its own and attorney's fees, otherwise usually doesn't get involved in doing much more than insuring expenses proposed for payment are appropriate.

Doing estate planning is no more a DIY activity than removing an appendix. Lawyers should always be involved and, often, CPAs too.

In many states, I won't say all because I don't know, assets placed in a living trust do not go through the probate process (and can avoid attracting fees and costs that can amount to several percentage points of an estate's gross value) because when properly done, there are no decedent owned assets to manage or oversee.

Since you like internet searches, I found this page where the ABA says "While it is true that the property passing under the terms of a living trust upon your death will "avoid probate," it should be noted that there may or may not be actual value in that result." Probate work for some lawyers is like clearing drains is for plumbers - it's regular work that can be expected to cause the phone to ring that's usually easy and pays well. But from the client and heirs' perspective, is low value added. It's not in the interest of ABA membership broadly for the association to encourage the general public to use living trusts instead of wills that get probated.

A few words from the ABA concerning probate

Annie, in response to your original question regarding no executor/executrix, I believe the courts here in CA would name someone giving preference to a surviving spouse, children, grandchildren, siblings, and so on down the line of succession. My own experience as both a trustee and executrix is it can be a lot of work. I'd not want to do it again.

We have both a living trust and wills since that's what is best for our situation. You're so right regarding consulting an attorney for the best course of action.

Elmer, I suppose technically they are called "probate fees" but to me it's a tax as, if any assets go through probate, they take a percentage.

I deleted my comment but decided to post my sentiments again. DH & I have been together for 45 years. We never had children. Both of us had professions, and DH is a mathematician and engineer - he has managed our finances for decades. I am totally clueless although there are times when he tries to explain things to me. In his retirement, he has acquired a Porsche GT4 that he puts on the track. It's not street legal - he hauls it to track events on a trailer. I stay home with the dogs. I'd be totally screwed if anything ever went wrong. I've repeatedly told him if I ever get notified that he was involved in a fatal event that I would call the breeder to come and get our Australian Shepherds and then I would find a way to end my life. Because that would be the last of me. Someone else can pick up the pieces.

If all your mother's assets were in a trust, it's not clear to me why probate was required and why action of a probate court was needed before assets could be transferred. Maybe the situation was somewhat different from how you understood it to be or it's a peculiarity of your state.

Probate court fees are statutory, as are lawyer fees for probate services. Statutory means the amounts are set in the law and vary based on the amount of gross assets. They don't "take a percentage", it's a user fee which like most other governmental user fees are applied to those who use a service. The fee theoretically covers the cost of providing the service. Vehicles that use toll roads, bridges, or ferries, pay for the service and usually the bigger they are, the higher the fee. Same thing with probate fees.

Avoiding such fees and costs are PRECISELY why living trusts that avoid probate are the best route to take. They can add up to several percentage points of asset value.

An additional benefit important to many is, as you somewhat intimated, there is no "process", no passage of time, no outside supervision, no delays. Forgetting for a moment getting financial institutions alerted and aware of the new people who will be accessing accounts (which is perfunctory in most places and can be done in advance) a trustee can start disbursing funds to heirs within a few days following death if necessary. Everything is choreographed in advance and can just happen ASAP.

Seagrass this makes me sad to read. I hope you will consider other options and scenarios that maybe would entice you to become involved and learn about your finances. Even though you are worried about a fatal accident involving your husband, what about a non-fatal accident or a stroke or heart attack or even a fall that could render your husband unable to handle the finances? Don’t you think he would want to depend on you to know how to handle things? He could need to depend on you to make sure the bills are paid, how to arrange care for him if he needs it? It seems an unfair burden on him for you to be so dependent that you don’t think you could function without him, or even with him in a situation where he’s disabled. Please reconsider becoming more involved and informed.

Seagrass,

Listen to Oly.

XO

Zalco

PS If it were me, he would only get to play with his toy once I knew how to run the finances. And in all seriousness, financial matters are not nearly as hard as they appear once you sit down and work things out.

I live in a very depressed state of mind. I've managed to survive advanced breast cancer and also have a rare blood disorder that causes a great deal of fatigue. Every day i think to myself it wouldn't be so bad if I didn't wake up tomorrow...

{{{{{{{seagrass}}}}}}}

"They don't "take a percentage"...

In our state they do...they take a fixed percentage of the assets in the estate over a certain amount....you can call it "vary based on the gross assets" but that is precisely what they do. Whether you call it a "user fee" or not, it's still a tax, just like other taxes which are also statutory. (I have no idea why "statutory" is even an issue here. It's irrelevant.) It might be more of a "user fee" if it was based on the number of assets whose ownership would need to be transferred, but it isn't. Whether it's a $1 mil in one asset or $1 mil in 1,000 assets that have to be transferred, the fee would be the same.

I also don't appreciate this: "Maybe the situation was somewhat different from how you understood it to be..." I am not stupid. I am very aware of exactly what happened. I also have no desire to air the details in a public forum. Take it or leave it, but don't denigrate my intelligence.

I’m so sorry Seagrass. I hope you will reach out to someone for help to get you through this time. As many can attest, depression can be treated to help you get through the darkest times. This is the number for the Suicide Prevention Lifeline, should you want to call them. I hope you will. We care! 1-800-273-8255

also, do you know if there is a support group for people with the blood disorder you have? Sometimes others living with and who have survived the things we are struggling with can provide the most help and support. If you don’t know if one exists, if you don’t mind saying what it is, maybe we can help you find resouces. If you don’t want to post it, if you PM me I will try to help find something.

seagrass, I'm so sorry to hear you say this.

My MIL who was blind and deaf and completely dependent on her husband used to say the same thing to me, even when I was a child, that if anything happened to him, she'd do herself in. When he died, she started hinting that we wouldn't have to worry about her much longer. So I stepped in and found a place for her to live that was part of a continuing care facility near us. She lived there for 13 years until she passed away naturally. She had many good years there, she made friends and was surrounded by people who cared for her tenderly.

I tell you this as there is help, there are resources, there are solutions, there are options.

I strarted getting weaker and weaker at the end of 2016, and ended up in the ER at Beth Israel Deaconess in Boston. It's a teaching hospital associated with Harvard medical school. They saved my life. I was in ICU for 3 days, and in the medical ward for 5 days and then 2 weeks in a rehab facility. My blood disease wasn't even determined until I was released back home. It's called "Hereditary Spherocytosis". My primaray care doctor told me she had only heard about it on board exams. But I was lucky that she referred be to a specialist in Boston. One in 750,000 people have it. I',m really special.

Yes you are special, and you're meant to be here with us.

First sentence of the whole answering....

And I stand behind it....

Depends on your state. Please talk to lawyers in your state. Doesn't matter our personal experience is here.

I remember when I was diagnosed with my disorder. "Rare". After everyone that came across me found out that I had something they'd never heard of, I felt like a steak.

I hear you. We're so so lucky.

Yuk, seagrass. A rare disease that leaves you tired. My mother had a less rare condition, pulmonary hypertension, and the amount of stupid comments that generated were enough to make a person want to smack someone. I imagine you are on the receiving end of similar misunderstandings and always, lots of great advice about lifestyle changes that could cure you. I found having an unusual diagnosis an alienating experience- not the best for a person's morale. OTOH, maybe your friends and family are all much more clever and inderstanding than mine (said seriously.)