Thanks for the tip--I've already checked them out. It seems like that will be my best bet. I've also joined the ASA. They have an annual seed/swap sale that may be a resource for me as well. Bruce

If you are still looking, here are people that share their seeds,and have a nice variety. Here is a link that might be useful: willow garden

ok then please email me about the trade thanks

Thank you, Akamainegrower, I'll look into those books. My local library might even have them in stock. I recall there being a few books on shade gardening. JPM995, maybe the stream will keep the roots directed that way, and less vigorously toward the new plantings. As a additional note, I was cleaning out a bed on the other side of our yard yesterday, in part to transplant a purple rhododendron that was growing into some yews, and I stopped to realize that up until last year we had a very old, large Norway Maple that was becoming diseased and was losing many limbs, and so we had it cut down. I had forgotten about it actually. But, all surrounding and indeed right next to this Norway Maple were planted many years ago various yews, arborvitae, boxwood, a few rhododendron, and a bit further away blue and Norway spruces. And these plants did very well under this large tree. The yews for instance grew quite big. Yes, some of the arborvitae maybe weren't as full as possible due to the shade, but for the most part everything took nicely. And everything planted is 15-20 years old. Then, I thought of another area, where we lost again a Norway maple during Hurricane Sandy and similarly where we had planted a lot of shrubs and small trees. While this bed did not coexist with the maple as long as the first bed I've mentioned, only 5+ years, the plants within it seemed to do fine also. And almost everything planted was left-over, second nursery stock, so not always the healthiest plants to begin with. Perhaps the plants did okay simply because they were individual Norway maples, rather than a woods of them, and so received light and water sufficiently. Or perhaps the more mature the tree, the less vigorous the roots (though I doubt this). The only other reason I can think of is in these areas we have always watered them quite regularly, in fact maybe too much. We've reduced our watering the last few years, but maybe that extra care and attention was what allowed these plants to establish themselves well, despite the invasive tree. And maybe once established, they can hold their own. Granted the rhodo I removed yesterday had started to sprout more vigorously this year, without the tree there, but I'd say it still wasn't bad all that time. Whatever the reason the bed managed under the maple, I am a bit more hopeful in being able to deal with whatever trees have to stay. Joe