I post and then go back and correct if I find an error in what I've written: it happens, particularly with the tablet, which seems to have a mind of its own when it comes to auto-correct.

Poor grammar grates, but people correcting other people's grammar grates even more. The only errors I try to correct are factual ones.

Consider that there are folks with poor writing skills who may have some degree of dyslexia.

And I'm bothered by typos in published materials too. I read mainly ebooks now and come across more of those errors than in hard copy books - altho I do see more of it in contemporary publications, as compared to older ones.

I try to catch and correct my typos, but I don't always manage to do it. I'm happy for anyone to correct my grammar or punctuation as I feel I am losing those skills.

When speaking to someone in other than a brief passing encounter (though maybe even then), you see a very noticeable food spot on their shirt or blouse that's the size of a large coin, or that blood is running down their forehead, would you mention it? I would 10 times out of 10, with a spirit of being helpful, not critical.

A typo or grammatical error is FAR different than blood running down someone's forehead. Very poor analogy.

Fine. How about the food spot on clothing?

I only judge the intent behind words, whether written or spoken. It's silly to stress over grammar and spelling. We are not writing class papers here.

I am typing impaired and spelling impaired and my keyboard has sticky keys. No amount of practice or study has made much difference in that and I do often apologize. without spell check I am lost.

Grammar is a totally different matter. We all come to this forum with very different backgrounds. I fondly remember a woman who used to post on the Rose forum with the most amazingly creative use of language. She was a delight to me to read even though her grammar was nonexistent or perhaps prescient since it sort of read like tweeting . I have plenty of grammar and an exemplary vocabulary. (I just misspelled vocabulary) (I just misspelled misspell) Well maybe not exactly exemplary but enviable. Do I sneer at people here who admit to having to look up some word I used? No I do not because I do not view my vocabulary acquired from my 8th grade teacher as making me superior. In fact I am not communicating efficiently. Oh woe. I frankly am pleased that people seem to tolerate it.

So, my take on this is that picking on a person's spelling, syntax, grammar and so forth is not very nice. It is rude. It is not mannerly. To make people feel that they can't contribute because they didnt have Miss Hoague in 8th grade is not gracious.

ETA: I should have mentioned the food. What is the person supposed to do about it? If they take off the shirt you would be compelled to tell them they are half naked. Where would it end? Just wondering.

As for the food spot analogy or similar, one would hope that the heads up would be given discreetly. Kind of impossible to pull someone aside in a public conversation on a public forum.

I’m reminded of this adage attributed to Mark Twain:

”Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig likes it.”

I’ve also heard it this way, ”…and it excites the pig.”

Kind of impossible to pull someone aside in a public conversation on a public forum.

I suppose here one could message them using the Houzz message system. That has the added value of hiding your own lack of grace from others even as you berate some poor soul for having the nerve to think they are welcome and valued on the KT for their thoughts and contributions when their spelling and grammar are not perfect.

I was, for years, a professional proofreader. I still make mistakes here.(I am a lousy typist.) As I am approaching 100 years of age (September 13) I hope for forgiveness from all of you kind folks.

Nothing to forgive, Seniorgal. Happy to have you here. We all make mistakes, don't we?

OMG Seniorgal, 100!!! That is so amazing! I knew you were old. WOW! The amazing thing is you are history. I love it. You need no forgiveness. So amazing that you bother to post. I am so honored. Who wouldn't be.

I do a quick once-over and correct anything that stands out. But if I post and see an error and my intention is still clear, well I trust the intelligence of the people here and do not worry about it. I tend to only correct peoples grammar as an insult to make them feel stupid. And I HAVE actually done that for the SOLE purpose of making them feel or look dumb, so that is how I take such corrections to my own grammar or spelling in casual communication. It is quite different in an academic or professional setting, and in things like news articles but in casual conversation I find it very very rude to cut someone off to correct grammar. Who cares?

And while some people may find that a lack of perfectly "correct" grammar to be a poor indicator of someones background or whatever, one wonders what the urge to correct such frivolous things in CASUAL, allegedly friendly conversation indicates about such a person? What's more important, the substance of the sentence or the form? The person making the statement or their education in the science of spoken word? I don't know. Everyone has their standards I suppose....

The prevailing views among those who have responsded are clear though not ones I necessarily agree with.

Some people are offended by constructive suggestions no matter what they are and no matter how delivered. Rejecting or ignoring a suggestion as a default reaction is different from simply disagreeing with it. Dismissing relevance because of a personal practice of dismissing ideas of others is a personal choice, it doesn't make the comment rude.

“Out of respect for and as a courtesy to others, I check for typos, spelling and grammar errors.”

Check more closely:

”The prevailing views among those who have responsded [SIC] are clear though not ones I necessarily agree with.”

😂

This falls under the category from my first post here, ”I think the only (main?) times I’ll comment is if there’s something funny or ironic about the typo.”

I actually never IGNORE such a correction. I just take note of it. I am a watcher, and a mental note taking ninja. Because it is important to me to be able to recognize the types of people I deal with, put them in their "category" and then it it easier to interact with them. Or know when to avoid it.

For example, there is a regular truck driver who comes into my office. He is in the "ACTUALLLLLLYYYYY" category of people. Some of the people in this category have expertise in EVERY subject. And they absolutely cannot just go on with their day without letting everyone around them know about it. Because I have put him in this category in my mind, I know that when I see his truck pull on my scale, to make sure that I am not listening to anything, watching anything, reading anything, talking to anyone else about anything, or have any food visible. Because he will either have an opinion that takes 20 minutes to spout off, a recommendation of music or a book or food or whatever that he KNOWS that I will like because he likes it and he has superior taste in everything so of course I would like it, I am just too much of a yokel to know about it without his help, some sort of knowledge that I MUST be too stupid to know without his help (did you KNOW that broccoli can be.........hold on to your hat for this one......ROASTED!!!!!! shocking I know!), or an eye roll worthy correction. (Yes I KNOW that Bridgerton is not an accurate depiction of Regency society. I am still gonna watch and enjoy it. Bite me.) My coworker was telling me about these "loaded tea" drinks that she has been making herself. She was talking to ME. And of course he had to interject, "AAAAAACTUUUALLLLLYYY, its better to brew your OWN tea......yada yada yada." No one asked. I once said the word "parmesan" without an obnoxious fake Italian accent. His IMMEDIATE response" ACTUUUAAAALLLLYYYY.. its "PARM_EEE_ZZYYAAAAHHH__NO" Okay.............we are still talking about the same cheese right? I mean, you knew what I was talking about? Does it matter? I guess it does, to him. I put people who correct grammar in friendly, casual conversations in the "AAAACCCTTUUUAAAALLLYY" category. I do not characterize all of the grammar correctors as know it alls like others in the same category, but they are the type who CANNOT just let it go. Even though, people who presumably have superior education and knowledge certainly have the ability to understand what was meant, they HAVE TO LET THEM KNOW, that they did something "wrong" and that you noticed it, and no worries, I can help you sound less dumb...... And that is rather rude.

I try to proof read but 50% of the time I hit submit without checking. I happens the most when typing on my phone. I agree that professional writers should be held accountable.

I worked most of my adult life in the medical field. This included a lot of typing reports, patient histories, etc.

Misspellings as typing errors do not bother me at all. I can always figure out what the person is saying. However, I have met people who just do not know how to use common words...here, hear, their, there, they're. Too, two, to.

One woman I know casually texts me occasionally with those errors constantly. I believe she never had proper early education, teaching the differences, and how they are used.

English is a tricky language. I would totally forgive those mistakes from those who were raised with a foreign language, but admit, it does bother me when I see those mistakes repeated constantly from people who write to me.

I feel like I should say something, but do not. The person does not understand the difference between those words and I feel it would be humiliating to teach them how to use those words properly. It's not my place to do that.

It certainly does not affect my relationship with her. If I saw a friend with a big stain on their shirt, I might point it out or might not. Would depend on the person and our relationship.

Jane

As i said earlier, food , typing is a mechanical process and typos aren’t completely avoidable. Grammar, tense and word choices and forms aren’t mechanical in the same way.

In personal/casual correspondence i write as I speak. I write to a person or group as though we are sitting in my living room having a conversation. My region has a unique lingo due to massive European immigration at the turn of the 20th century. No, it isn't text book grammar, but it is more personal. I believe this post started from my use of I saw/I seen on the gas price post. No, that was not typed in error. That is how we speak the words in conversation. "I saw" is used when in the distant past or no longer current. "I seen" is used in the recent past or still currant. Of course there are exceptions. When someone corrects grammar or spelling outside the classroom or professionally it speaks volumes of their manners and personality or precisely lack of.

.

"Grammar, tense and word choices and forms aren’t mechanical in the same way."

Neither are empathy, good manners and consideration for others.

The main thing that bothers me is acronyms that I do not understand. Besides the obscure ones, there is "DS", which can mean sister or son. How much more difficult is it to type out "son", which does not even require capital letters? I also would rather see "sis" for "sister" instead of "DS", in case someone cannot be bothered to type out the entire word.

One thing I do not like (although it does not really bother me) is when people make extremely long posts all in one paragraph. I usually skip reading these posts altogether, as it is difficult for me to keep my place.

I do try to correct my posts before I submit them, but sometimes I miss errors, and if they make something confusing or inaccurate, then I appreciate it when someone points that out, and I go back and correct it.

Twenty years ago we could not go back and edit posts on GW, and so people had to be very careful before they entered their posts.

Now, instead, there is the issue of posts disappearing altogether before one can hit "enter". That is what I find the most annoying.

^^^Hear, Hear!!! I don’t mind DH, DW, DS, DD, because those are obvious but beyond that come on. I recently read a post (not here) and there were so many darned D’s it was near impossible for me to decipher and keep straight. And sometimes it’s ambiguous. Is DSIL son in law or sister in law? DC dear child or dear cousin?

But my ”hear, hear” is for the entirety of your post, not just the D’s.

What is really concerning me is that I've become so inured to incorrect spelling and/or grammar online that I'm starting to not even see it anymore!

It used to really bother me. It was high on my pet peeves list. The whole plural vs possessives misuse used to make me twitchy. My eye's!! (You have no idea how hard that was for me to type - even as a joke it hurts my brain.)

Now errors barely register on me. I can't decide if that is good news, or a sad commentary.

This particular forum is honestly not all that bad compared to what I see on Facebook though. Holy horrific spelling Batman! Did everyone who posts on Facebook drop out of school in 4th grade?! It seems like the average person can no longer compose a coherent sentence, much less worry about grammar and spelling.

ETA - I just came back to fix a typo, that I made in my whine about spelling and grammar. Irony amuses me. :)

Or is it here, here?

No, not there, here, here.

Haha nope, it’s hear, hear. I was pretty sure but googled before posting to be sure!

Isn't hear, hear another way of saying hear him - or her?

Acronyms are interesting. I think Lars' point is a good one. I have a few I favor - esp. FWIW, since I'm pretty sure my words are not worth much at all to some.

I do think plenty of folks are not clear on the difference between objective and subjective thinking. Being subjective often means being judgemental. I see some folks presupposing motives behind a comment, when there appears to be no evidence to support it.

And then there are personalities that seem to thrive on, relish, and seek out conflict, often taking offense where none was intended.

People are weird.

One distinction that seems to be being overlooked is the difference between verbal communication and written communication. Unless recorded, verbal communication is very temporary.....you hear it and then it is gone. Grammatical issues tend to disappear in the ether, are rapidly forgotten and the misuse of words (homophones, plurals/possessives, etc.) is undetectable as aurally, they all sound the same.

But written communication, especially online, is pretty permanent and the errors are far more noticeable and remain visible indefinitely for al the world to see!

Casual verbal communication is very different from written communication, even very informal written communication. And I have a hard time overlooking the glaring grammatical and usage errors in any written communication as they become overly obvious just by virtue of being written (and therefore at least semi-permanent), jump out at me and distract from whatever that poster is attempting to say.

And hey, call me a writing snob if you like but grammatical and usage errors DO indicate a lack of education/sophistication to me - or at the very least, carelessness - and then that puts in question the validity of whatever is being communicated by that poster.

I don't have to write very much anymore. I find myself making basic grammar and spelling mistakes where I know the correct word, but my mind didn't function when I wrote it. I'm messing up 'their' and 'there'. I try to proofread, but I need a fresh eye before I catch it so I don't usually catch it until much later.

“Casual verbal communication is very different from written communication, even very informal written communication.”

One area that I find a challenge to balance is with the kids, and texting. My daughter in particular uses so many shortcuts, and coupled with auto”correct”, sometimes I find myself wondering if I should interrupt the conversation to correct grammar or let it fly. Random recent one:

”J go through where ppl walk w there snowboards to the back we r there”

So gardengal, you don't consider dyslexia as a factor? It's more common than some might suppose.

How about vision impairment - or fine motor skill impairment?

For instance, in college, I had an English professor who was dyslexic - no lack of education there!

And I do find myself making more mistakes with reading and writing as I've grown older.

"Did everyone who posts on Facebook drop out of school in 4th grade?!"

You do have to wonder sometimes. My work used to consist of hours of editing. It would amaze me what seemingly well educated people would write. I agree typos are one thing, but the grammar errors were another story!

I do try to check my posts before submitting, but I plead guilty to some typos. They simply happen to all of us. Again, grammar is another matter. My mom was an English teacher, and I used to get annoyed when she would correct me. Now I'm thankful for it.

This just came to mind. A friend of mine is a high school history teacher. Her emails and texts never include "it's" without the apostrophe. People confuse "it's" and "its" all the time, yet the difference is so simple. I guess the editor in me still can't help noticing such things.

When I first joined HOUZZ there was a poster by the name of Havingfun. She loved her pillows! She would post picture after picture of throw pillows. She had a terrific sense of humour. She was about 55 years old. All of her posts were quite disjointed and she would often end them by apologising for all the ”brain farts”.

As I got to know her I discovered that she was bedridden due to both of her lungs failing. I assume she was on a lot of medication. Her only form of enjoyment was chatting on the HOUZZ forum.

I was very sad the day her husband posted and said Havingfun had died the night before. He thanked everyone for giving her so much enjoyment.

I miss her posts very much, brain farts and all.

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5532226/good-thoughts-to-havingfun#n=86

Yes, it is true that grammatical errors may reveal either a lack of education or sophistication. This is exactly why, although I may notice and cringe, I don’t feel it is either helpful or gracious to point them out to the offender.

We behave very differently in our cars or online than we do in person.

I think she has forgotten about Dysgraphia and "Written expression disorder" in addition to Dyslexia. About 10% to 15% of percent of people suffer from Dyspraphia Including myself.

Without spell check and the internet to help I would be helpless here and has nothing to do with lack of education or sophistication.

I remember my first "D" on a spelling test because the teacher praised my grade to no end, first one out on the first round of a spelling bee, and sometimes I still draw a blank trying to spell a four letter word but I managed to become well educated. I have a grandson with dyslexia in his mid twenties and I'll spare the details but it doesn't have a happy ending.

Sophistication? I would say it's a poor word to use as a substitute for dumb........ people like Winston Churchhill, Albert Einstein and Leonardo Da Vinci all had Dyslexia and very sophisticated.

I have to wonder exactly what are these grammar impaired people supposed to do about it? Do you expect them to sign up for remedial English classes? I can imagine 39 different reasons why some people err in their grammar. I can even do that before coffee. Obvious is being young and not realizing you are going to need grammar when you get older or maybe you were unlucky in your schooling. I had the most appalling sixth grade teachers and to this day I wonder what I lost that year. My eight-grade math and science teacher was pathetic and I know I did not get taught square roots because of her but of course English/history was exemplary. So it goes. There is grammar and spelling assist here and the grammar leaves a lot to be desired by the way. There are so many different standards for grammar. Our language is a hot mess. How do you as an adult make sense of that? I have been working on my spelling for over forty years and have not made much progress. I cant over come the training I got in first grade.

"And hey, call me a writing snob if you like but grammatical and usage errors DO indicate a lack of education/sophistication to me - or at the very least, carelessness - and then that puts in question the validity of whatever is being communicated by that poster."

I really must disagree with this, or at least the last bit. There is a difference between education and intelligence. I've known and worked with people from a range of backgrounds, and have encountered more than a few with multiple degrees, impeccable grammar, and very little ability to analyse or reason, no willingness to learn new things, and very poor judgment. One of the least competent people I ever worked with had a PhD. And of course, neither education, sophistication nor good grammar are indicators of the values a person holds, or of the way he treats the people around him. I think it's important to look a little deeper rather than simply give more weight to one argument than another because it's better presented.

If the only contact is written - and a very briefly written response at that - then it is virtually impossible to assess the values one holds (unless that is the topic of the discussion) or their ability to analyze or reason. There is seldom enough substance to many of the posts to come to any accurate conclusions in that regard.

Here, lacking any closer personal interactions, the presentation of the argument is really all that we have to go on. And it's been my experience that those that are uninformed or careless about grammar and word usage - a sloppy presentation - also tend to be sloppy or careless in their thought processes as well.

Your experiences may be different......I am only relating mine.

And yet they are welcome here

Did somebody say snob earlier?

I couldn't care less about spelling or grammar as long as I can understand the meaning of what is posted. But, like Lars and others, I do not like acronyms. I especially do not like posters that comment like they are texting someone or posting on Twitter.

R U w/ me?

Acronyms are sometimes baffling so I always try to spell out who I'm talking about. Sentence construction and phrasing don't bother me, but I always notice your/you're, seen/ saw, their /there/ they're/ etc. Looking back at a letter I wrote my aunt in third grade, I got every one of those correct.

It’s probably important to note that content seems to override typos and grammatical errors. Whether you’re on the giving or receiving end of nitpicking or other negative responses, look for patterns. If there are patterns, there’s more to the story. Occasional honest self-reflection is good. There are really only three options for how we write: How we are, how we wish to present, and how we unintentionally present. Patterns in responses will give clues, if we’re honest enough to recognize them.

AmyLou, I love your post about the ACTUALLLLLLYYYYY guy! Your writing always has just the right touch of humor. We have one exactly like him in the family. Whenever he starts out with that word, I brace myself. Here it comes. Mr know-it-all. When we are in a group discussing something, he is madly Googling away on his phone looking for "facts" so he can contradict us. I know his behavior comes from his insecurity that he has a poor education and barely graduated high school by the skin of his teeth. He cannot resist trying to be the smartest person in the room. Mostly he is just an arrogant jerk. ACTUALLLLLLYYYYY. I avoid him as much as possible.

Does anyone still have their copy of:

I'm sure mine (2nd edition, I think?) is somewhere in the house but I haven't had occasion to look anything up in years -- perhaps a sign I'm no long stretching (or stressing!) myself when it comes to the written word.

For me, grammar errors happen when I'm changing my mind about how to say something, and start to edit in a new direction but ... well.

It would appear someone flagged one of my earlier postings, the one in which I offered some advice "in the spirit of helpfulness." Now that really is rude - but not in the least surprising. Good grammar is not an indicator of good character.

Agree nickel. Yes, I do have that book.

Not necessarily grammar errors per se for me as wording errors, changing a pronoun and not changing the verb from singular to plural or vice versa, or missing that when there are two subjects, an "and" can send you in a different direction for the verb than an "or".

For me, studying and becoming proficient in two foreign languages taught me English grammar. Proper grammar isn't an option when speaking to others or writing for one's job. The good habits usually stick and aren't situationally compartmentalized.

Saw this just now. Why oh why didn't MY english teachers ever explain it like this!

Seems to me, after several of us here have said how carefully we proofread and edit our comments, that one may have no way of knowing exactly how badly misspelled or grammatically incorrect a person's writing may be - as long as they proofread and edit - which not everyone does.