@Liz K would you happen to know if the racks on your GE dishwasher are PVC or nylon?

Yes, I would love to know about the GE racks as well if you happen to know! Sound like this model could possibly be a good solution.

@Julia Martyn, @lilnsam There may have been a "newness" smell initially when opening the door after running the dishwasher, but that went away pretty quickly (under a week I think). I'm sensitive to smells and this wasn't bothersome. It wasn't a plastic or a melting plastic smell. I don't think that I have used the drying feature yet, so can't speak to that. (We let the dishes air dry and finish drying off the plastic items with a cloth). If it would help you, I can run a load with heat dry and let you know how that goes. I checked the Q and A for this model on the GE site regarding the racks. One of the company responses says that the racks are coated with nylon. I have found that it is very difficult to get info about materials used in appliances for all brands. This dishwasher gets our dishes clean, is pretty quiet, and doesn't give off any smells. Let me know if you have any other questions about it. Hope this helps!

@Liz K thanks so much, that's very kind of you, all super helpful information! I'm seriously considering this model now, too, based on your review. Yes, if you would be willing to run a load with heat dry, that would be super informative to know if it changes odor release

. Thanks so much and I really appreciate your time.

@Liz K thank you!!! I am definitely considering this model as well now. To buy us some more time in our decision, we actually went ahead and got the mechanical problem with our current, old plastic tub model fixed, but we still have the issue of the faulty PVC rack that needs to be replaced. We are going to look into whether or not it's possible to get a nylon rack from another Whirlpool model to fit. Absolutely no info online (that I've found anyway) as to whether or not its possible to retrofit a new rack into an older model or one from a different brand. Will share if I am able to find out anything!

@Liz K hi! I'm wondering if you may have had a chance to run the heat dry on your GE to see if it gives off any new odors? Thanks so much.

@Liz K, sorry, I have one more question before I call GE: in your research, did you by any chance find out whether the plastic inside the GE tub is BPA free? I see they're evading this question in Q&As but I'm going to try to call to get an answer.

@Julia Martyn, I have been planning to run a load with the heat dry setting, but I didn't want to have many tupperware type containers in the load just in case. Didn't want to lose any do to warping, etc. I've been waiting for a load of all dishes and glasses, but that hasn't happened! I do want to use that feature to know for myself that it works and doesn't give off any new odors. But, I have wondered if you have purchased a new DW yet. Since it sounds like you haven't, I will run a load this afternoon and get back to you today.

@Julia Martyn, I don't think that I was able to get answers about the plastic used in the GE tub interior. I did find some general information about plastics used today in dishwashers. I just came across something that I remember reading regarding this when I was searching for bitumen information. I'll include the link below. Scroll down to the heading "Plastics in Dishwashers".

https://www.debralynndadd.com/q-a/finding-non-toxic-dishwashers/#:~:text=Plastics%20in%20Dishwashers&text=Plastic%20tubs%2C%20silverware%20baskets%20and,not%20contain%20BPA%20or%20phthalates.

@Julia Martyn, I used the heat dry feature today and am happy to say that I did not notice any new odors during the cycle or after opening the door when the cleaning/drying cycle was finished. Let me know if you learn anything new about this model. Hope you are able to get a DW that works for you (without any toxic fumes) soon!

@Liz K, thanks so much, I really appreciate your comments and advice!:)

Hi All, i got a new Bosch series 4 dishwasher and man in stinks so strong of plastic and bitumen when its running, i paid bloody $1000 for this thing, ran it a few cycles and still stinks, even inside the tub and the dishes come out smelling the same, i can smell it from the sides of the dishwasher so its likely coming from the exposed bitumen at the back. It seems this problem is more with high end dishwashers that are designed to be "silent", while low end noisy dishwashers dont have this problem. Yes they are silent for sure but on the other hand fill your home with toxic bitumen fumes, this is totally unacceptable.

@Liz k You mentioned that it was an "ordeal trying to find another DW and verifying the insulation materials". Can you tell us what kind of insulation materials the GE you have are, if there are any? Thanks

So, I have finally found a new model without bitumen. An LG. I am not sure if all newer LG's have moved away from bitumen or just some models. But, this model in this link, in the Q & A, the company spokesperson stated that it contains NO BITUMEN. See the Q & A for details. Finally, after a 3 year search, we found a model. We ordered it and it's being installed next week. You can find this model at your local Lowes or Home Depot stores.

https://www.lg.com/us/dishwashers/lg-ldth7972s-top-control-dishwasher

@klinden7, please keep us posted how it works out for you! I see on the pics there is some black-ish tarp material around the unit, but i doesn't look to be caked on/cured in like bitumen so very hopeful this is the move in the right direction that other manufacturers will pick up on!

In CR's tests, the LG LDTH7972S was a so-so performer and did not earn a recommended rating. It's drying performance was its downfall; it earned only a 2/5 rating. There are many owners' reviews at Home Depot and Best Buy but many of the reviews have nothing to do with the appliance, instead complaining about installation (e.g., "The dishwasher was installed in a way that it tilts to the side and backward") or delivery. Also, who knows what kind of detergent owners are using. In CR's tests, gel detergents as a group were mediocre and some hardly cleaned at all.

klinden7, what has your experience been with the new LG you bought last month, please? Is it still actually bitumen, some other also smelly new option, or something that *might* be tolerable for most? Thank you any feedback.

klinden7, how had the new LG been working out?

An update on the LG dishwasher we purchased in December that does NOT contain Bitumen. LG Model: LDTH7972S ( QuadWash Pro Top Control 24-in Smart Built-In Dishwasher With Third Rack (Printproof Stainless Steel)).

We have had it for 3 weeks and use it daily. We have been very pleased. There is NO bitumen and there has been no other bothersome smells, at all, and we are quite sensitive to that in my household. There is NO insulation that is baked on or cured on. It has something kind of similar to a thin foam or felt like type of material around it and it also came with a small piece that you put behind the front foot panel at the bottom, that has some cutouts for pipes and you sort of place that in there for a bit more soundproofing. Not sure what that piece is made of, but it has the texture of rubber. The instructions on that are a bit awkward, in how to place it, but we found a YouTube video that explains it. We used our own plumber to install, rather than the store delivery persons and that rubber piece was a bit tricky to place. We had to fiddle with it, for awhile, as the piece has a fold in it and various cutouts to work around and initially it was keeping the door from opening all the way down flat. So, we just had to keep trying and finally got it right after shifting it a few times. So, if you install that and the door doesn't open flat, redo it. It kind of nestles in there among the various metal edges a certain way. This video shows that piece:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv7MqDynI5Q

Our unit is the Stainless Steel interior model. Someone mentioned in a post above that there were some reviews that it didn't dry well. Once we started to use Seventh Generation Rinse Aid, after we ran a couple of early loads, drying has been pretty good.

Hi. How do you know for sure it has No Bitumen? Is thre a way to check ? thank you

Patricia, I am not sure if your question is about my LG model or in general. Bitumen is a baked on black, tar-like asphalt material. So, it should be easy to see compared to a loose felt material, for example.

For the LG model, I based my purchase on seeing questions answered, on several differnet sites, by company persons that specifically stated no bitumen. And, while I don't always trust those answers, as some responders aren't knowledgeable, this one answer on the LG site was detailed enough to make me think it was accurate. While the answer did not state specifically what the material they were using, they did provide enough specific information on materials to make me think they knew what they were talking about. And, I can tell it does not contain bitumen because it does not have baked on material and you can see the insulation material used when it's delivered. Here is that specific Q & A that gave me confidence. It was on the LG site.

Q: ??? Concerning dishwasher Model #LDTH7972S: 1-What is the tub insulation damping sheet made of? 2-Does the dishwasher have any bitumen in it? 3-Is there a Prop 65 California warning on this model? Mahalo

Susie748 MONTHS AGO1 ANSWER

A: Hi Susie74. Bitumen, also known as asphalt, is a sticky, black, liquid or semi-solid form of petroleum that's widely used in dishwashers as a sound-deadening insulation. It is not used on the LG Smart Top Control Dishwasher with 1-Hour Wash & Dry, QuadWash® Pro, TrueSteam®, and Dynamic Heat Dry™, Model # LDTH7972S. Foam felt, and fiberglass insulation are some of the most common types of dishwasher insulation and the newer insulation material available on the market is ceramic fiber. This material helps to provide good sound, heat, and vibration insulation. Prop 65 can also be found for electrical cords for appliances so the dishwasher has aProp 65 warning as is required for all products that might find their way to California...^Ivan

LG Digital Care8 MONTHS AGO

hi. thanks for taking the time to answer. it is free of bitumem. i also emailed lg that same day I‘ve asked you and they checked with their product manager and answered: Thank you for reaching out and expressing interest in our LG dishwashers. I am pleased to assist you in your inquiry.

Please be advised that while our access to detailed material information is limited, I have diligently gathered pertinent details that may address your concern. Upon careful review, I have identified the LDTH7972S model, which is confirmed to be free of Bitumen.

Hi @Liz K Did GE confirmed if this model that you’ve got GDP630PYRFS is BITUMEN FREE and do you know if the plastic tub and racks are BPA,BPS, PVC, phatalates Free?

my dishwasher broke and I would like to buy a new one today, but if I find out something negative, I can always cancel the order.

if anybody have this information or knows of any dishwasher that is Bitumen free specially and doesn’t have BPA,BPS, PVC, phatalates, please let me know

Liz if you could kindly respond.

thanks

Hi @Paricia Scott. I was very focused on the bitumen issue and did get confirmation from someone with GE that it was free of Bitumen. I don't think bitumen can be used on plastic because of the curing process. So, I gave up on stainless interiors at that time because it seemed that they all had bitumen somewhere. I do remember getting information about the materials used in the racks, but don't remember the details. If you call GE with those questions, they should be able to pull up the specs and share that information. I hope that it does not contain any of those materials! FYI, I have been pleased with the dishwasher. I was disappointed that I had to go with a plastic interior rather than stainless. Good luck!

klinden7, Hi, thanks for all the very helpful information you have provided here. Yesterday a LG customer service agent told me, after checking, that none of their dishwater models contain bitumen. So I am still stumped as to what exactly is causing a strong chemical smell emanating from our relatively new LG dishwasher starting about 40 minutes into every wash cycle (we have a LDFN3432T, about which many BestBuy and Home Depot reviews have mentioned some kind of chemical smell, sometimes described as burning plastic or rubber). Best Buy is letting us exchange this unit for another one, so I am seriously considering the model that you bought, but just to be sure, could I trouble you to let me know, when you stand near your unit 40+ minutes or an hour into a washing cycle, does it give off any strange smell? Thanks so much!

I should also add that, in response to our unit's chemical smell problem, LG recently did tests in their factory on a LDFN3432T unit of their own and then recommended to us changing two parts to eliminate any chemical smells (they didn't specify which parts).

@HU-273034353, hello, thanks so much for your very informative posts above. I have checked, and the Miele G-5006 and their other models in that same price range changed their circulation pump in 2021, so I would like to ask you the rough date of when your Miele technician replaced your circulation pump, in order to see whether the new units might be worth betting on. Thanks so much!

HU, I haven't noticed any strange smells with my unit. But, I will check it at 40 minutes in, when I next run it to let you know. But, we are generally in and out of the kitchen area, off and on, sometimes when it is running and haven't noticed anything in particular that smells like burning and we have 2 people in our home that are highly sensitive to that kind of smell.

If LG tested your model, after your report, and told you to change out two parts, why didn't they tell you which parts?

@Patricia Scott: "do you know if the plastic tub and racks are BPA,BPS, PVC, phatalates Free?"

1. Please explain how any of these substances would be transferred from (a) dishwasher surfaces to (b) the rinse water to (c) the dishes to (d) your food?
2. What data to you have that demonstrates that the use of any of these substances in a dishwasher is hazardous?
3. There are PVC water supply pipes (example); your house may even have them. If PVC is used for water supply pipes, how do you conclude that PVC dishwasher surfaces are hazardous?

klinden7 Thanks so much; I really appreciate all your help. To clarify, although some reviews of our model mentioned a "burning smell", what I actually smell from it, starting from about 40 minutes in all the way to the end of the cycle, is not what I would consider a burning smell but some kind of some strong chemical smell.

Oh, and I forgot to ask, is your dishwasher connected to the hot water or the cold water tap?

Unfortunately, LG has still not replied to our request to know which two parts they recommended replacing for our model. Even getting them to admit that there is a chemical smell problem in the first place was a long and arduous process.

One thing I just noticed now, in the detailed photos of those two different LG models on the Best Buy website, is that the insulation material is clearly different between them. So I can't help but wonder if our model's different insulation material might be offgassing chemical fumes when it gets hot.

@HU-694991603 Thanks for your question. Our first dishwasher reeked of both bitumen and hot rubber. Our pump was changed prob mid summer 2023 a few months after installation, which was causing the hot rubber odor. Between the continued bitumen odor and the fact that the faulty rubber pump had so tainted the plastic parts within the stainless tub Miele replaced the entire dishwasher. Their service has been great bc both of the techs who worked with us could smell how awful it was and backed us up, thankfully.

Unfortunately, we are still unhappy.

The new G-5006 unit still has the strong bitumen odor. The guys in the Miele labs refused to believe the issue is the bitumen so even had a couple of the rubber parts on the back of the new dishwasher replaced. We knew it wouldn't help, and actually added MORE months of new rubber odor recently which lasted for several hours after each use on top of the continued bitumen odor.

Even after several months, I can still only run it on quick wash when I can hide away and work for a few hours in a bedroom with the door closed. I have the stove exhaust fan running and an Austen Air purifier running both during and after the quick wash and still smell the bitumen for a couple more hours. (I am sensitive, but my husband isn't and he can still really smell it, too.)

Miele people we worked with have been patient and listened and really tried to help. We are impressed. The higher ups at the company will not admit, though, that the strong bitumen odor is the lasting issue with this model. One finally admitted yesterday on the phone with my husband that maybe we rec'd two units from the same lot that had production issues. (Bc we rec'd them within months of each other.)

All four Miele employees who have been in our home could smell the odor while the unit was running, even after we'd had it several months. (Even the one who said he didn't have a good sense of smell could smell it when he moved near the unit while it was running.)

These face to face encounters were fine and they seemed to really listen and were very respectful. The people back at headquarters in the lab...not so much on the listening part bc they haven't been here in person, though we can say they really did try to offer suggestions and solutions. They just refuse to believe the bitumen is the issue. (Miele employees receive a nice discount, so usually buy a nicer model than this basic unit. Each of the employees who have Miele dishwashers reported they didn't have this odor issue with their higher end units. It's so bad they said they would've remembered.)

On the days the dishwasher's 1/2 - 3/4 full, I just hand wash them bc it's just not worth it. I really don't mind that part at all, but my husband and teenage son complained about not having a dishwasher for months so I finally gave in. And this is what happened. Yeesh. ;)

Our LG is connected to the hot water pipe/line

@HU-273034353 Thank you for your reply. I am so sorry to hear about your terrible ordeal with that unit. Not sure about your specific situaton, but might it be possible for you to demand a refund for that defective product? (or an exchange for a different brand/model?)

@klinden I hope you're having a good weekend. Just wondering if you had a chance to do another wash cycle (and thanks for letting me know your unit is connected to the hot water).

HU-694991603 I checked on the last cycle of the model we have and around 40 minutes to 1 hour into the cycle (which was on the Normal setting that lasts 2:25) and there is really no chemical smell at that time or the rest of the cycle. We have had it now for about 6 weeks and no one in the family has noticed any odor or off-gassing issues.

@klinden That's great -- thanks so much!

@klinden7 Could I trouble you with one more question: which brand and model of water hose did you install to connect your hot water pipe to the dishwasher? (I ask this because we just recently got the same dishwasher you have, but unfortunately there is a chemical smell, and I am wondering if it might be coming from the water hose in our installation kit, the Smart Choice 6 ft. Stainless Steel Dishwasher Installation Kit.) Thanks so much!

@ HU-694991603

So, you have my model now to replace the LG model you mentioned in your earlier posts? How many loads have you run?

This is a link to the water hose kit that we got.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/EASTMAN-8-ft-1-800-PSI-Stainless-Steel-Dishwasher-Connector/3190309

Just received (and returned) an LG LDTH7972D (black stainless, bar handle) dishwasher. It is clad in bitumen on top, sides, and back, underneath the felt mat., adhered to the stainless tub. Surprised after reports (including from LG staff) that it did not contain bitumen. Quick test you can do: run a hairdryer over the suspected bitumen mats for about one minute, and then smell it. If it smells like asphalt, it's bitumen. This is the second bitumen-toxic dishwasher we have had to return. The first was a Whirlpool WDT750SAKV. Whirlpool responded after 11 days to our issues with their product. LG was very responsive and immediately processed our return and cleared the way for a refund. We may have to go with a plastic tub/plastic inner door model to avoid bitumen. The fumes make my wife and me acutely ill.

For those of you wondering about Miele dishwashers and bitumen: this is Miele's reply to my inquiry: "Bitumen mats are used as insulation on our dishwashers. The mat is fully enclosed inside the steel housing of the dishwasher on the sides, front, rear and bottom. The top insulation mat will be enclosed by the kitchen counter top once the dishwasher is installed. " I read this to indicate that the bitumen on top is un-enclosed, venting fumes under the counter. I consider this to be a clear problem, as they will enter the room. As to the enclosed bitumen, I am uncertain how much the fumes seep out of enclosure. We are sensitive enough to bitumen fumes that the Miele dishwashers are not an option for us.

Oregonder, we are now on our third Miele in less than a year bc of bitumen. What they told you is not accurate, unfortunately.

The steel housing does not enclose the bitumen. It's open, simply gives the unit structure under the cabinet, and the hot bitumen odors are as prominent as the other brands are reported to be.

You can best see the steel housing on the right side of the above photo. The steel housing is not sealed to the underside of the counter top. The bitumen on the top isn't enclosed either. See in the following picture there is a gap there under the counter.

On the two sides, there is a long gasket that isn't meant to seal or keep odors in.

And even if all of these places above were somehow sealable, there wouldn't be a way to seal the bottom simply bc the door must open. That area is wide open to and with air circulating freely from the top, back, and both sides of the dishwasher.

That's our wooden kick plate above the floor. A black plastic one of the same size comes with the dishwasher and wouldn't keep the odors in either.

We've asked each installer and each Miele service guy about possibly sealing it somehow. They all say the heat would damage the inner cabinet areas and back wall surrounding the dishwasher. It all has to breathe.

They also pointed out, even if you could seal the other areas, the odor would still come out around the bottom bc that still needs to be able to open and close.

Ooh, and the back is open, which also has black rubber hoses which adds hot rubber smell for quite some time after installation...in addition to the different bitumen asphalt smell.

I wish I could give you better news for your WD. You are so right to question the explanation they gave you. Unfortunately, the info Miele gave you is incorrectly optimistic about encasing any odors. We've found these Miele to match the awful odor stories of all the other brands.

The only good thing is they've been willing to work with us every step of the way, but haven't been able to back it all up with usable products for our situation.

For a dishwasher free of bitumen, consider looking for models that explicitly advertise themselves as bitumen-free or eco-friendly. Before making a purchase, it's advisable to check clearpath lending reviews to ensure you're making a well-informed decision about any financing options or home improvement loans you might consider for purchasing appliances.

I have been given erroneous guidance toward supposedly bitumen-free models by customer service reps of the manufacturers. So I would not trust an ad. If a new dishwasher has a stainless steel tub, and/or a stainless steel lining inside the door, then it will very likely have bitumen insulation. We have just installed a plastic tub/plastic inner door lining dishwasher, and it contains no bitumen (Whirlpool WDF341PAPM, via Home Depot). There is an initial offgassing ("curing") of the epoxy-based insulation on the motor windings - almost gone after seven run cycles, and nowhere near as persistent and as toxic for us as bitumen.

@klinden7, does your LDTH7972S have the bar handle or pocket handle, please? I want to order as much like yours as possible. ☺️

Thank you so much for all of your help with info for your new dishwasher? Are you still happy with it?

As I previousy noted, the LG LDTH7972 in fact has bitumen mats on the sides, top, and back of the tub. Probably within the door as well. Despite LG reps claiming it did not! Check out the picture of the side and part of the top. That black stuff is a bitumen mat adhered to the stainless steel.

Hi oregonder. Thanks for your quick reply. I thought you purchased the LDTH7972D? (Simply different door cover, I'm guessing, than the LDTH7972S.)

klinden7's "S" didn't have the bitumen adhered mats under the sound proofing tarp.

So I'm definitely willing to give it a try after a year of bitumen grossness with three different dishwashers at my family's insistence (even though I'm the one hand washing all the dishes- go figure).

We can always return it.

The D signifies Black Stainless finish on the exterior of the door. If you see these black mats on the stainless steel, heat up a spot on one of them with a hairdryer for a minute or two and give a sniff. Might save you the trouble of installing it (and then dis-installing it) before returning it.

We were Very Lucky to be able to return it to Home Deport and get a full refund, as this tends to not be their policy. With Home Depot, usually only can return for refund if you do not accept delivery - so inspect it for presence of bitumen mats under the felt padding, and if they are there, refuse delivery.

While on the topic of Home Depot: you have 48 hours after delivery to be able to return an appliance for replacement if it doesn't work correctly - so install it pronto and put it through its paces - otherwise, it's your problem, not theirs.

Wow. This is great info, oregonder. And I'd never have thought about the hair dryer. Thank you!

Wow. Too bad it is so hard to avoid. Kind of like trying to avoid plastic in a car interior.