laag, that is exactly what I meant. I did not mean to replace one's landscape every 5 years. We just need more conversations on the order of, here is a good place for some instant gratification; over here is where you plant your beech tree for your, or someone's, grandchildren; here you want some quick impact but don't use that ornamental grass x because you'll never be able to wrestle it out; and so on. The other thing is, I don't think a knowledgeable gardener has to plant his or her yard JUST so that it will be beautiful for the next buyer or so that buyer doesn't have to do anything to maintain or rejuvenate the landscape. Let the buyer beware! So I see a balance between responsibility vs. freedom. Irresponsible might be knowingly planting something in a way that it will destroy the foundation in 5 years; responsibility AND satisfaction can come from plantint a nice small oak that you may, or may not, get to enjoy as a shade tree, but you know it's the right plant for the right place, so you nurture and cherish it, and someday you or someone else will get the benefit; freedom is planting some large evergreens for a screen that you just need now, that might have to be thinned later by you OR someone else-- In between all this is acquiring more landscape and plant knowledge or advice so you are avoiding totally daft creations--for the evergreen screen, maybe researching it a bit since there are choices that are more or less painful down the road-- but not merely existing to create a legacy.( How do you like your garden? Oh, I hate it, but in 20 years someone will really like it.)This is all still compatible with planting "real" trees and things. In reality, no matter how carefully you plan, it will not necessarily fulfill that dream in 15-20 yrs anyway and certainly without knowledgeable maintenance. Here is a funny thing about mature neighborhoods. In many of them, the trees are way too big for perfect (or even good) aesthetics with the small homes and lots--but the neighborhoods are beautiful in fall with glowing maples, oaks, gingko. If we followed a roadmap for scale, everyone would have had to plant only dogwoods and redbuds and Japanese maples. In some neighborhoods, hardly a home is sited on the lot in a way that a nice shade tree can be placed to provide both proper shade and not dwarf the house. So were those people visionaries, planting trees that in 20-30 yrs would be breathtaking, or irresponsible for not finding the perfect species that would not exceed 20 ft, or whatever? I agree with the shrub myth, too. In my current home, I have some ginormous azaleas that I HAVE crawled under and seen, gosh, there are actually 4 shrubs here and if I could possibly rip out 2, I wouldn't have to prune so much. But I'm not sure it can be done now(well, maybe anything can be done with the right tools and risk-taking). So one of my convoluted points is that even if one person plants the "perfectly spaced for maturity" landscape, or whatever, it will still never be care-free, and a succession of subsequent, generally plant-ignorant and/or plant-disinterested homeowners (I think that's fair; it's not meant to be holier-than-thou) will likely screw it up. As in, beds with lots of space between plantings have to have regular attention to mulching and weeding ("look at these idiots who planted here before us--they just left us these puny shrubs in a weed farm!). So one of the myths is that humans have some kind of amoebic shared mind and will carry on the garden vision of the previous homeowner. All that said, I LIKE being well-warned, in print or otherwise, about the characteristics of a tree or shrub or whatever, and find myself doing a lot more research before trying something (can almost get paralyzing) so that I can make an informed decision about placement, maintenance and so forth.

I don't understand it sounds like you guys are spending a lot for soil delivered you can get cheaper at home depot. Someone posted they got 7 yards for almost $300. I get 7 yards compost at home depot for $56 and 7 yards soil for $56. Then 4 bricks of coconut coir from Amazon for $44, vermiculite for $20, azomite $30, worn castings $ 8, and manure for $14. This fills my two 4x4 raised beds 5 totes, and numerous pots for $228. Are you sure your getting a good price or am I missing something? Oh and home depot does military discounts so I get a discount this goes for retired too.

What kind of seed got thrown out? A few hundred seeds is really not that much. 10 seeds for $8 is a good way to get seeds for next year. What is your intention ? I have no problem sharing seed its a big part of this hobby. Post what your looking for and im sure something can be done here. You could just buy a few new new strains to share next year and get a pay forward now. Just remember your obligation next season. Im sure we will have lots of newbies in need of the same gesture. I personally did not buy any seed last year and this year only purchased Brown Mougas only because nobody had any to trade.All other peppers came from other members who received seed they desired in exchange. Love it when thing work out . Join the club you can share alot of seed with 100 plants. And save alot of $ helping others it a ++ all around. Got your seed dude just Email me My list is in my profile. I plan on sharing Brown Mougas next year . I would be a rich man if I could get 25 cents a seed. Greed and Gardening really dont go together [ too much stress] God gives us seed Pepper Joe is just a middleman cashing in

Hello! Wanted to let you know that Veggie Volume will be in the mail today! WOW! You all did wonderful and there are so many wonderful things in there! Here is the packing list of what everyone sent in to share.... ChefLisbeth's List 1) Lettuce, Romaine, "Winter Density" 2) Beans, Bush "Nickel" 3) Lettuce, Romaine "Little Gem" 4) Broccoli, "Early Purple Sprouting" 5) Spinach, spring/fall "Bloomsdale Savoy" 6) Basil, Lime 7) Swiss Chard "Bright Lights" 8) Cauliflower "Snow Crown Hybrid" 9) Kale "Winter Red" Spinach, summer "Correnta Hybrid" Lettuce, oakleaf "Salad Bowl" Swiss Chard "Fordhook Giant" Pea, snow pea "Oregon sugar pod II" PatrobÂs List 1. winter squash/pumpkin 'Long Island Cheese' 2. winter squash 'Lakota' 3. winter squash/pumpkin 'Red Warty Thing' 4. winter squash/pumpkin 'Jarrahdale' 5. zucchini 'Zuchetta Rampicante' aka 'Tromboncini' 6. okra 'Cowhorn' 7. carrot 'Candy Stick' 8. cantaloupe 'Amish' 9. parsley, Italian flat leaf pea 'Green Arrow' 11.Crowder peas mixed leaf lettuce 'Chioggia' beets MeMesFlowers List Flor De Mayo Sweetpeas Alaska english peas Queretaro Black Beans Mayo Coba beans Painted melon Casaba Melon Crenshaw melon Cantaloupe Hales best Peter Pepper String bean Tenderbean Improved Hales Best HappyskunkÂs list Bean Barbarossa - Ingegnoli Bean Scuba - Ingegnoli Bean Allegria - Ingegnoli Bean Trionfo Violetto - Ingegnoli Chick Peas Black Kabuli - Gold Mine Natural Food Co. Basil Mammouth - Ingegnoli Pepper Carmagnola Rosso - Franchi Pepper Friggitello - Franchi Pepper Piccante Di Caienna - Ingegnoli Tomato Red Pear - Ingegnoli Tomato Principe Borghese - Ingegnoli Tomato Marmande VF - Franchi Tomato Costoluto Fiorentino - Franchi Radish - Purple - German company (note from cheflisbeth - ÂVery Kewl! Tomato - Hillbilly Potato leaf Tomato - Berkeley TyeDye Tomato - Beauty King Tomato - Russian - Korneevsky Pink Tomato - Russian - Wild Rose Melon - Ukrainian - Zolotistaya Melon - Ukrainian - Kazachka LadyAcres List Heirloom pumpkin mix Honey rock cantaloupe bugarian carrot hot pepper canary mellon king and queen watermellon mystery winter squash Sunflower - Snackster Taxi tomato heirloom tomato mix salad cucumbers orange sun bell pepper minesota midget mellon ShayÂs List Red Shine Citron Indian Corn Crook neck squash Pumpkin Garden Basil Triple Curled Parsley Long island Mammoth Dill German Johnson Tomato Black Brandywine Tomato Blackbean snaps Marglobe tomato Collards - Georgia Southern Cauliflower - snowball