patriciae , I'm not sure which situation you have in mind but I'll assume it's the car. He and his wife had previously decided the make and model car they wanted (it was one they'd had before) and he bought something else only because it was cheaper. The car had poor ratings and low assessments (that he knew nothing about because he made an on the spot decision) but he was satisfied at the time SOLELY because the price was lower.

He's now not happy with it and is thinking of selling it but I doubt he learned a lesson because this has happened to him in other forms many times before.

To me, such foolishness is akin to sending someone to the fish store to buy salmon filets and they come home with a bag of fish heads because the price was cheaper. This guy does this all the time, price drives his buying decisions no matter how his product choices are sacrificed. Financially, he's well set and has no need to be so stingy. I think it's a mental peculiarity or sickness, to tell you the truth.

I do always try to get every last drop out of whatever I'm using. I do not put the old into the new bottle though for fear of contaminating the new jar. When I am to the very end of shampoo, I will put some water into the bottle and shake it up. Water will go bad after a little while though so I don't let it sit for more than a few days with that added water in it.

Some of the things being identified as " cheapskate" seem to me to be simply sensible.  Reusing supermarket plastic bags makes sense environmentally (plus, where I live,  we pay for the bags).  Buying high quality sound systems at the best price, likewise: I wanted a good micro system for the living room, did the research, identified exactly what I wanted, and then waited a bit (this was a "want", not a "need) until a reputable dealer knocked a few hundred dollars off the RRP in the middle of a lockdown.  To me, that's sensible: I got that high quality system (well, high enough quality for what I wanted) at the best price.  That's not at all the same thing as buying a lower quality system because it's cheaper. That would be cheapskate.

Re the following:

["Frugal or thrifty means getting a high quality sound system for the lowest price you can find it."

For me, the words I've highlighted in bold italics style describe a sentiment that can also often be held by people who are cheap.]

Compare and contrast....similarities and differences. By parsing what I said inappropriately, the poster missed the point entirely. I was pointing out the *differences* between being cheap and being frugal. Yes, of course both are interested in getting low prices. That's the part that is similar. But the point is the *difference* between the two which is one pays attention to the value received for the price and one does not. Parse out the difference and then of course you will find none.

The kicker is, he goes on to describe a situation about a car buyer that makes my point exactly...someone so focused on price that they ignore the value received.

What do you call someone who is the opposite...who will pay extra just for the name brand even if the product provides no extra value, but only the cache of the name?

I think the CHEAP person would just do without buying a new sound system where as the FRUGAL guy would look for a good deal on a nice sound system. I'm the CHEAP person...I will just make do with what I have. I'd probably just buy an inexpensive or middle of road system if I just HAD TO HAVE it. Often times the brand name designer type thing isn't really any better than a NO fancy name something. There are people that get off on paying ridiculous prices for fancy brands....those are probably the narcissistic people. A Walmart purse for $20 has the exact same function as the LV bag at a small portion of the price but no one will be impressed by the Walmart bag...I'm the type that couldn't care less if someone is impressed by me. I drive old vehicles that have been paid for for many many years. To me, that is what's important...having NO PAYMENT on a car!

"I think the CHEAP person would just do without buying a new sound system where as the FRUGAL guy would look for a good deal on a nice sound system."

That depends on a person's priorities......a person can be cheap about some things, and extravagant or frugal about others if those thing are a priority. I will be cheap about TV and sound things, but often extravagant about food, since I enjoy good food far more than I enjoy good quality audio on my TV or computer........I'm happier with good food and average audio, than I would be with average food and good audio. YMMV.

I still like the Oscar Wilde quote about knowing price of everything, and the value of nothing (but that was about a cynic, not a cheapskate). No one has really talked about the emotional costs and benefits, just the financial.......for instance, I'll use a tube squeezer/slider things to get the most out of a tube of [whatever], but there's no way I'd cut the tube open to get another week's worth of stuff to use. The idea of that open tube of squishy stuff in the bathroom or bedside table would make me do the icky dance, so that cost is more than the cost of losing a few cents worth of toothpaste or lotion or whatever.

Toronto Vet, I think the emotional is in there in terms of what and how we value things. That is part of the equation when we consider the cost/benefit of our purchase. For example, I remember seeing light switch covers at an AD show that cost $100 each. They were nice. But would I ever get $100 worth of satisfaction out of a light switch cover? No. So regardless of if I could afford it or not, I wasn't buying. The "emotional" attraction or valuation wasn't there.

Dh likes to pick up the check or at the least split down the middle, regardless of who ate what.

My BIL always asks for separate checks. It would bother him to pay a few dollars extra!

"Yes, of course both are interested in getting low prices. That's the part that is similar. But the point is the *difference* between the two which is one pays attention to the value received for the price and one does not. Parse out the difference and then of course you will find none."

The definition is your own and not without a bit of added seasoning suggesting the sentiment "what I do is sensible". People who are frugal in their spending and people who are cheapskates, as well as people who are neither, can be found all along the spectrum of caring about "value" or not. Value is a personal assessment anyway, how something is assessed for each individual on their ownf, so it's not an objective measure. A cheapskate can diminish and shine on a poor quality purchase by rationalizing the item having a low value or importance to them. Someone who's self-justifiably frugal can do the opposite with their time-sucking pursuit of the lowest possible price.

"The kicker is, he goes on to describe a situation about a car buyer that makes my point exactly...someone so focused on price that they ignore the value received."

No, you misunderstood. He convinced himself that buying the model at the lower price was an opportunity to get the same value for less money. It turned out he was wrong but he rationalized that factor without information to do so. That's a common trait that I've seen of both frugal and cheap people - the ability to rationalize petty habits, purchase tactics and minimize/marginalize the true consequences of both their conduct and the outcomes.

​"That's a common trait that I've seen of both frugal and cheap people - the ability to rationalize petty habits, purchase tactics and minimize costs and consequences of both their conduct and the outcomes."

That's common to pretty much all of humanity, most certainly including spendthrifts and those who are happy paying whatever price is asked because they want something, and they want it now. 

We all rationalise.  We all have different views on what is important and how much we are prepared to pay.  One person is happy with a cheap sound system because other things matter more; I want a small one with good sound and am prepared to pay for more than a cheap Panasonic; my stepson has been an afficionadao of hard rock for years and thinks nothing of paying 10 grand for speakers because music is hugely important to him. I don't believe that makes any of us wrong:  all of us have decided what matters and how much we want to pay.  Are we "rationalising?" Yes.  Is deciding what's  important to us "petty?"  No. Not in my book. 

 There is a big difference between the sound system  users, who are making conscious and informed decisions about where they stand on the price vs quality continuum, and the car buyer who is not.

...and not without a bit of added seasoning suggesting the sentiment "what I do is sensible".

...my disagreeing with another who said that an example of their approach was...

These are inapt as I was stating nothing about me. I was only stating my view of the difference in definition between the two terms.

"That's common to pretty much all of humanity, most certainly including spendthrifts and those who are happy paying whatever price is asked because they want something, and they want it now."

Do you realize how your implied disagreement, contempt and perhaps even jealousy for those who take this approach is conveyed in this sentence?

I was using the term "rationalize" in the sense of this definition I found:

an "attempt to explain or justify (one's own or another's behavior or attitude) with logical, plausible reasons, even if these are not true or appropriate."

With, to me, an added insinuation that to rationalize a choice or a view often is done defensively, knowing others may not agree or be likeminded.

Everyone prioritizes and assesses, not everyone rationalizes. Which is to say, not everyone looks for reasons or excuses to justify their own choices for the consumption of others. There is also a large group of people who don't bother to rationalize their choices because they feel no need to justify them to others and are perfectly comfortable with decisions they make for themselves for no other reason than that.

I have an aunt who is frugal and cheap. Over time, she has indeed accumulated a good amount of money by dint of her thrift, investment in rental properties, and her husband's increased income over time. Her attitude is that if you spend more than she does on an item, you are a status seeking spendthrift with no sense. If you spend less than she does on an item, you are beneath her and contemptible for your failure to have means. She is a whole class in the psychology of money that woman. I actually learned a great deal from her, just not the lessons she thought she was teaching. She is my mother's sister, and unique in our family.

I had a similar aunt, you've described her precisely. And similarly, she was relatively well off. My mother (and her siblings) finally cut off contact with her though she lived nearby - dealing with her became too tiresome.

Ha! Same, Elmer, though I waited for my mother to die.

"Do you realize how your implied disagreement, contempt and perhaps even jealousy for those who take this approach is conveyed in this sentence?"

 I neither expressed nor implied contempt. Rationalising our behavior, whether our reasoning is valid or not, is part of the human condition. We all do it.  It's important that we recognize it in ourselves when we make our decisions. Choosing to pay more than necessary for something involves as much rationalisation as does cheaping out. "Petty habits" are not the exclusive purview of the parsimonious; they are equally common among the extravagant. That was my point.

"those who are happy paying whatever price is asked because they want something, and they want it now"

This was meant to express understanding and support of a view others may have that you don't hold or practice? Could there be other reasons involved and not what you assume to be behind it?

Elmer, you called Grainlady "irrationally and compulsively cheap" which certainly has a judgmental air to it. I suspect this woman would be as offended as you seem to be by what you think of as a judgement. I am a fan of all different sorts and as I said earlier those who like to pay full price make it possible for me to not have to. Win win.

" Could there be other reasons involved and not what you assume to be behind it?"

Go back and read again your statement about cheap and frugal people rationalising "petty behaviour" and tell me why exactly the same judgmental line of reasoning shouldn't also apply to spendthrifts and the extravagant.

There may be good reasons to pay more than necessary for something, just as there may be good reasons to hunt for a bargain. Neither action in itself warrants being castigated as petty behaviour.

"Elmer, you called Grainlady "irrationally and compulsively cheap" which certainly has a judgmental air to it."

True. Whether it was her ridiculous suggestion to buy powdered milk in drums (saying something like "it lasts for several years and tastes the same as fresh milk) or to buy whole grain in bulk and grind it yourself (saying something like "it costs much less this way") or her crowing about how she and her husband had a food bill that was something like $75 per month (I don't remember the exact amount), or any of the other ridiculous things most people with normal lives would never consider doing, she was an off the scale extremist. To her, food for humans was like slop for hogs, the less you can spend to get calories to ingest, the better. Joyless. All the while saying, as I said above, that her two person family was comfortable and could afford to spend a lot more and expressing amazement that more people didn't spend the hours and hours she spent daily to save a dollar or two.

Her last thread that ended her participation here was about the less than warm reception to what she thought to be an insightful money saving suggestion to buy frozen mixed vegetables and sort them. Putting like with like, to save a few cents compared to buying whole bags of the same thing. It was met with something other than the plaudits she was expecting to hear. Some said exactly what many would think of. I remember one said something like "I can imagine suggesting to my mother that with her arthritic hands, she should sort small pieces of frozen vegetables on a table or counter, just to save a few cents". And no, I did not have a contribution in that thread. She picked up her frozen vegetables and sacks of powdered nonfat milk and went away..

"tell me why exactly the same judgmental line of reasoning shouldn't also apply to spendthrifts and the extravagant."

Could there be other possible factors, including if people simply don't care and haven't given it any thought beyond that? For me, that's not a rationalization, an attempt for justification standing on a wobbly support. It's a default - hmm, hadn't thought why I don't pay closer attention to my spending practices. If someone can afford to do that, it's a reasonable choice and theirs to make. I've known many who can and do, and few among them who ever find the need to explain what they do to others.

I don't see compulsive frugality and extreme spending practices, pursued by those who needn't be that way but rationalized by them as being important goals for their own sake, as understandable or reasonable traits. Most people aren't like that, instead they enjoy being generous to themselves and their friends and families, and there's probably a conclusion to draw from that. Whatever approach you choose for yourself, great! I think this sideline discussion was exhausted 3 or 4 comments ago. I'm done.

I think people like grainlady are generally nice people,(she really thought she was helping) but she for sure gave off stingy vibes. I cannot relate to stingy people,and I generally do not get along with them. When I think of a true cheapsake I think "stingy." Ebeneezer Scrooge stingy. Sitting in a dark room, by a fire lit with a single lump of coal, shivering while wrapped in layers while your hoard of gold sits unbothered and unused in a cold, lonely safe.

SO and I are not wealthy, just comfortable. We both love a good deal, but we are in agreement that it is pointless to wait and wait and wait hoping for a better deal to come along when we see something we want. There are simple ways to get good deals on some things, but it is not imperative that everything must be a steal. I think it is kind of sad when someone REFUSES to pay full price for anything when they have the means. They would rather do without than spend money on something they need or want. They would rather be cold than turn the heat up, or miserable and sweaty than turn on the AC. They would rather split one meal at a restaurant rather than pay for two ONLY because of the cost, not the portion or anything like that. They buy the cheaper brand of food even if it tastes worse than the name brand to save a couple dollars on one item. That compulsion in those kind of people makes me feel terribly sorry for them. And that is NOT condescension, it is true pity. If you do not have the money, that is one thing. If you have it and cannot bear to part with it, that is a whole other thing........

Seasonal example, I hit the after Christmas light and wrapping paper sales HARD. I use a lot of them, and they do not last so it makes sense to stock up. BUT if I need or want something THIS year that I see in the store for my decorations, imma buy it now. I am not going to wait, hope no one else buys it, and then extra hope that it goes on sale for pennies after Christmas, that I get to it first before other Christmas fiends do, and buy it for next year. That is pointless when I want it and can afford it now.

 "I think it is kind of sad when someone REFUSES to pay full price for anything when they have the means. They would rather do without than spend money on something they need or want."

I semi- agree with this.  I absolutely will pay the full price for something I "need." I may wait and/or negotiate for something I just "want." Probably it comes from growing up in a home where every dollar had to be stretched to the limit.  We live in a society driven by marketing and, these days, by its first cousin, influencing:  I sometimes decide I need to step off the merry-go-round of endless consumption.

sal 60 Hanzlik, What happened to the thread you started about inflation? Suddenly I cannot find it.

@Lars.....last I saw of it....an argument had broken out...

@Zalco/bring back Sophie!....we used to have a friend: If you spent more on say a mnt bike than he did you were an idiot, if you spent less it was junk! He set the precedence.

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Opened up the 1 gallon can of $60 floor glue and the top 2 inches had hardened, that part had to be thrown out.....but we needed it....NOW! It's the BEST floor glue on the market....went back to get another can, opened it in front of the salesman...it also was hardened....he marked it down HALF! (To me that's being cheap, but fair. We were going to buy it anyway, ordering a fresh batch would take months in a pandemic!)

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"Elmer, you called Grainlady "irrationally and compulsively cheap" which certainly has a judgmental air to it."

That would be MY definition of irrational and compulsive. That' s NOT judgmental....just observant. ♥

@Lars -- Uh-oh. Mea Culpa? My apologies for mentioning citizens' tendency to credit or blame a current administration for or bad economic conditions.

@chisue...THAT wasn't it. ☺ It was getting heated....and not over that. It started with effect vs affect in the title....and progressed from there.

Do you think someday we will all be reduced to the one memorable quote we have made here after hundreds or thousands of posts? For poor grainlady, with the vast knowledge she so readily shared, it came down to separating a bag of vegetables. Fortunately, she fares better on the Cooking Forum.

@graywings123....when you think of president Clinton....what comes to mind? Anything he accomplished politically come to mind...nope...me either....☺ Cigars pop into my head. Here's a list I couldn't have named but just 1 or 2, because of "that thing he did" wiped it ALL out.

I can think of quite a few things wjc managed to accomplish...the biggest was to set tax policy and leave it unchanged for years so that businesses could make decisions against a predictable fiscal environment...but then again, there was that one thing that was a stain on his entire administration...

@User, Too bad you don't recall Clinton accomplishments:

• Longest economic expansion in American history
• More than 22 million new jobs
• Highest homeownership in American history
• Lowest unemployment in 30 years
• Raised education standards, increased school choice, and doubled education and training investment
• Largest expansion of college opportunity since GI Bill
• Connected 95 percent of schools to the Internet
• Lowest crime rate in 26 years
• 100,000 more police for our streets
• Enacted most sweeping gun safety legislation in a generation
• Family and Medical Leave Act for 20 million Americans
• Smallest welfare rolls in 32 years
• Higher incomes at all levels
• Lowest poverty rate in 20 years
• Lowest teen birth rate in 60 years
• Lowest infant mortality rate in American history
• Deactivated more than 1,700 nuclear warheads from the former Soviet Union
• Protected millions of acres of American land
• Paid off $360 billion of the national debt
• Converted the largest budget deficit in American history to the largest surplus
• Lowest government spending in three decades
• Lowest federal income tax burden in 35 years
• More families own stock than ever before
• Most diverse cabinet in American history

@mdln...I posted a link to THAT list. I know. Totally awesome! THAT was MY point....but....I still think cigar. ☺ Annie understood...

The judgmental comment was a reference to the idea that we are all owed our own point of view and it be respected that we do. In other words some participants arent on board with implied criticism of their behaviors while being boldly judgmental of the behavior of others. Thinking your behavior sets the standard for rational is a common personal flaw. I am thoroughly enamored with my own Ideas and behavior but I try not to fool myself into thinking I am the gold standard. If I do persist in my flawed beliefs I would expect to be gently called out for it. Gently because this is Kitchen Table where we are all polite and thoughtful.

<Do you think someday we will all be reduced to the one memorable quote we have made here after hundreds or thousands of posts?>

According to Shakespeare, "The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones." - Julius Caesar.

I find it odd that some people seem so annoyed by other people's penny pinching! What does it matter to me if someone is frugal or a money blower...if it doesn't adversely affect me?

For as long as I can remember, my one sister would always blow money on useless stuff and things she didn't need and the excuse was "I deserve it" she would say. Then when something big would come up, she'd be running to Mom and Dad for them to bail her out of the pickle she had gotten herself in. In this case, the money spender caused grief to my parents. Always wanting a hand-out. Mom and Daddy aren't around anymore so she has to be a lot more frugal and she is now!

I don't know that Grainlady was disappointed at a lack of enthusiasm for her ideas; I suspect it was an issue of feeling attacked when she shared ideas. It may be that for her, the practices of simple living (not to be mistaken for easy) were satisfying for her. One particular member here who consistently criticizes many posts is what halted my own efforts to join in early on and feel like a part of this group, and I certainly understand how this could have been a motivation for her leaving. One does not have to agree, but one also does not need to be harshly critical of others. As often happens, it has devolved this particular thread into conversations that have nothing to do with the original topic. It is so sad, for me at least, that we can't share ideas without it somehow circling around to "if you aren't like us you can't sit here" sort of mentality.

So back to the original question - Any other thrifty/frugal/simple living/weird out of the box fun and interesting tips anyone?

As far as the Grainlady issue, IMO, when you are posting your ideas, experiences on a forum, it's to be expected that people will express their opinions about them. I think I was the one referred to who mentioned their disabled mother attempting to perform the task of separating frozen mixed vegetables. I could imagine they would be all thawed out by the time it was over. The idea struck me as far fetched, considering the endeavor had supposedly been directed at low income seniors.

As far as I'm concerned "a penny saved is a penny earned". I always welcome any way to save a few bucks on whatever.

I like to find reuse ideas for something that could be trash. Rather than buying a new canister, I will keep jars or containers that food came in that seemed to be a handy size and shape. Parmesan cheese containers have many uses!

carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b - I agree, I just think there are kind ways to do so.

arkansas girl - I never thought about parmesan cheese containers! Can you give me an example of how you've used them?

I always rewrap the Parmesan cheese that I buy in the plastic wrap that it comes in from the market, but I usually discard this when I have used all of the Parmesan. I do usually put the wrapped cheese in Ziplock sandwich bags, and then I reuse these. When the cheese is already wrapped in plastic wrap, the sandwich bags are easily reusable.

Occasionally I put the cheese in Foodsaver bags instead of Ziplock bags, and I bought a specific Foodsaver machine that will seal with minimal use of waste of the bag where the seal is made.

Well said, crazybrunette.

The Parmesan cheese containers: I have little dog treats in one, baking soda for cleaning in one, peanuts, chocolate chips...probably have some others I'm not thinking about. Oh yeah, some Kosher salt in one to use for cooking, it came in a big box from Sam's Club.

Oh my, the best containers are the Panera Bread soup containers from the supermarket.

My lemon lasts over a week when imstore it..

I reuse the containers that cold cuts come in. These containers may not be dishwasher friendly, but I wash them by hand to reuse them. I also wash plastic mayonnaise jars by hand and use them for storing beans, rice, and flours.

As for Grainlady, I found her to be overly pedantic, and she often talked down to people, as if they knew as little as her students did. She also gave advice that was either wrong or useless to anyone who had any experience cooking. She tended to treat everyone as if they were "dummies" and this is what bothered me about her the most. She did not seem to know how to communicate effectively with adults. She had an "I know better (and more) than anyone else" attitude that I found very off-putting. On rare occasions, I did learn something from her, but most of what she said were things that I already knew. I'm sure she was great with teenagers.

Lars, I didn't notice that about her. Perhaps because I'm not as educated on food prep as you. I found her to be very helpful to dumb old ME! HA! I only just thought that some of her ideas for saving money like counting kilowatts(?) used in electricity to be a bit too much bother for me.

I just thought of something that I do that saves us some money is that my fridge is annoying in that it will freeze things in the back so I have to be careful to not put some things back there or they will freeze up, like soda cans for example. So rather than tossing the fridge out and buying a new one, I work with it and put all my lunch meats and leftovers in the back where it's colder which makes the lunch meat keep a long time and also my leftovers keep longer. It's really only one shelf that tends to freeze up sometimes. So, it's not horrible, just annoying.

I was enjoying this thread and hadn't looked in on it for a few days. I was really enjoying the sharing of habits and bit of the commentary but man oh man how it devolved.

Getting back to the topic-

I remember growing up , so many people would save a tea bag by the sink to make sure it was used twice. It was a very typical thing to see in my friends' houses a lid from a jar that held a used teabag.

I do agree kindness is preferable to unkindness.

And when I buy grated parmesan at Trader Joe's, I transfer it to a glass jar, then wash and save the clear plastic 1 pint containers to use for all kinds of storage. The labels peel off pretty easily.

In years past, we had enough of them to send holiday leftovers home with guests. I do the same with TJ's large plastic cookie tubs. They're not heat resistant or microwavable but still are very useful and I don't have to buy any plastic food storage.

I never thought about the parmesan cheese containers before. I have been throwing them out. Darn, they are well made and a nice size.