OMG so true, this is a thread on its own ”This is another of those things, too many to mention, where the US and our fellow citizens are completely out of step with the rest of the world. We too often think our knowledge, our requirements and our issues are unique. They're not, trust me.”

I have an ancient Maytag top loader washer with agitator and matching dryer. They are located in a small space built for them at my side door entry. They are behind barn doors and I worry when the washer goes, are todays washers the same size now? This one could be 20 years old. I probably will get a top loader again and I noticed some without agitators which seem much roomier. Pro and cons, please from people who have had both. My daughter has a front loader that seems larger than mine so it will come down to what fits because there is no give.

@lily316, the hardest part with replacement will be the quality since nothing will compare to your current washer. The quality today is a far cry from years past. Both my siblings have Maytags over 30 years old. They dread the day they have to get new ones. We bought a new Whirlpool washer/dryer about 7 years ago. The washer lasted about 4 years.

I've learned when shopping for new appliances look for what fits your needs best. Forget shopping for any particular brand. The reviews for just about everything out there can make your head spin. When the time comes to replace your washer, shop for what fits the space and other features you like. Don't limit yourself with a certain brand.

lily316, you (like me) might be surprised at how long an average wash cycle takes in a modern machine. When we moved a few years ago, I was seduced by a no-agitator top loader. Turns out, it took a minimum of 90, count'em 90, minutes to do a simple wash. And reading the booklet, I was supposed to arrange my laundry, item by item, around the perimeter of the tub. As a long time 'dump and run, come back in 20 minutes' person, this drove. me. crazy. Thank goodness we got rid of it within a few months! Research carefully!

nickel, dirty clothes can't get clean in 20 minutes. They really can't.

We for sure changed our habits - sorting clothes more carefully by type and fabric allows washing in conditions the manufacturers recommend. There's no more "laundry day" for us. There never needed to be anyway, but loads are done and dried as time allows. We can load up the Miele and set it for delayed start so that the cycle is in progress when we wake up the next morning. Dirties are sorted and ready to go for each opportunity to run a load.

My front loaders aren't speed demons but I don't want them to be. I want the experience of using them to be clean clothes, not speed. The short cycle on the Miele, with a brief prewash, is 45 minutes but we never use it. We also don't use short cycle on dishwashers (which take 2 hours plus a little). What's the rush?

Wanting to do something the same old way with the same old equipment is keeping you from a better outcome, believe me.

Nickel, that is one of the reasons I hate my HE machine. An average load takes 60 minutes and the clothes aren't as clean as our old agitator we have at camp that takes half the time. You dump in the clothes, add the detergent and they alway come out clean. It is a pain soaking, pretreatment, before you even get the clothes into the washer. Sure the HE saves water, but not enough to justify the savings, which doesn't amount to much $.

The longer cycle of my front loader isn't an issue - I load it overnight and delay the start so it is finished when I get up, and I put it in the dryer. I don't care about fast, but it is a change from the old machines......but the old machines wasted water, wasted electricity, and pulled some of my clothes out of shape and put holes in others.

"Sure the HE saves water, but not enough to justify the savings, which doesn't amount to much $."

Yeah, I mean, it's not like saving water has any other benefit other than a little money - it's not like there are droughts all over, in places where droughts didn't used to be a problem. It's not as if the environment isn't reacting to all our wastage or anything.

Elmer as I said upthread, "If I lived where water conservation was a big issue, I'd go with a front loader and learn to live with it. But I don't, so I'm a Speed Queen queen, lol, because it does laundry my way and at my speed." I honestly do appreciate your mapping out of your laundry regimen, because in 10 or 15 years DH and I intend to move into a retirement community apartment and most of them come furnished with stacked washer/dryers. So change *is* likely in my future -- just not yet!

edited to add: for Toronto Vet's point -- if you really want to save electricity, hang your clothes somewhere to line dry. Driers are massive energy hogs.

Yes, I did read that. Water conservation is a minor plus for me (we conserve in many other ways). The more important benefits are other things. that I honestly consider more consequential. Even at this stage of a bad drought spell, we're well under our use limitations and while being always willing to do my share, I don't feel unduly influenced by anyone's dogma nor any internal drive to do more or to be silly and think I'm setting an example. The compliance of other water customers is someone else's problem.

But hey, it's only laundry!!

I have had a Whirlpool front load washer since 2001. Three different ones. I have had no problem because i leave the door open and wipe out the boot. My clothes come out clean using a scant tablespoon of powdered detergent. No fabric softener and no liquid detergent. As far as long cycles, I adjusted to that. I just go do something else!! I consider the removal of a load of wet clothes a mini workout, bend from the waist to get out wet clothes and stand up straight, then put in dryer. Dryers have been FL forever.

BTW. I am on the high side of 70.

"for Toronto Vet's point -- if you really want to save electricity, hang your clothes somewhere to line dry. Driers are massive energy hogs."

Actually, my comment was about saving water, not electricity. I use a fair bit of electricity, because I drive an electric car ;) Fortunately, our electricity comes primarily from hydro power (another reason to conserve water), along with some nuclear and wind.

"if you really want to save electricity, hang your clothes somewhere to line dry. Driers are massive energy hogs."

Line drying is not much in fashion in my area, maybe it'll come back.

But if someone REALLY wants to use a dryer and not be an energy hog, get a gas dryer. That's what we have. They operate at a fraction of the cost of electric dryers. Heat pump dryers are a bit more efficient than the old fashioned electrical resistance ones but especially in high electricity cost places like my state and parts of the East Coast, using a gas dryer saves resources and money.

Toronto Vet, yes of course -- I was reacting to your comment, which I agree with, about all wastage having an environmental impact.

eta: Elmer, I never heard of heat pump dryers but just skimmed an article about them and they sound quite nice (apart from being noisy??). Too expensive for me to switch, but maybe the price will come down someday.

Okay, I feel stupid now. After 20 years I thought my washer and dryer were Maytags and they're actually GE. It's our built-in oven that's a Maytag. I will hold on to the washer as long as possible as I know how well-built appliances were back then. My mother and I had GE refrigerators for 35 years. Harvest gold and mine was avocado. I bought a Kenmore washer the week my son was born and sold it when he was 26 for $30. My dryer should last forever because I rarely use it. I have been line drying all my life and I love clothes off the line which smell so good.

They're quite clever, nickel. They work the same as heat pump HVAC units, or, for that matter, a kitchen fridge or freezer, not relying on resistance coils to produce heat. And they don't require venting. Think of them as being a dehumidifier rather than a dryer for clothes, ultimately it's the same thing. .

A couple of years ago, I used a FL washer for the first time when we stayed in an AirBnb. It was a Samsung and I was amazed how well it cleaned one of my tops, compared to when I used our (very old) top loading washer. I was also struck by how much drier it was after the FL washer so that I could simply lay it over the back of chair to finish drying. Much easier on a garment than machine-drying. Recently we purchased a FL Maytag washer and dryer and are very happy with it although they are definitely not as sturdy as our old set. We have no problem leaving the washer door ajar to prevent odors.

'it's not like there are droughts all over, in places where droughts didn't used to be a problem''

Droughts are rarely a problem. If the water company ask us to conserve water it is only for a 24 hours, in a small area and is usually due to a water main break. It gives them time to fix the break and refill the water towers. I don't know the individual stats state by state, but we probably use less water than a lot of states per person. We don't need irrigation systems for our lawns or gardens, because we get plenty of rain. Sometimes too much. We don't wash our cars every week, and home pools are not widely popular due to our weather. I've only watered my vegetable garden once this year when I first planted it. We had a good soaking last week, it rained today, and it is suppose to rain every day this coming week. I feel sorry for the states that are have water shortages, but it's not like it is easy to transfer water from one area of the US to another. I sometimes wouldn't mind blowing our rain their way.

Living in an area with plentiful rain is not a reason to use more water than necessary. Water has to be collected, treated and distributed. After it's been used in one’s home it has to be taken away and treated again. All this uses energy. In one’s home it has to be heated at one’s expense. With growing populations and growing consumption aquifers are being depleted and rainfall is not sufficient to replenish stocks built up over the millennia. Even here in the soggy British Isles we are expected to do our best to conserve water stocks for the sake of our own wallets and the planet.

I think the point about water is, it's plentiful in some parts of the planet. While that's not an excuse for flagrant wasting (of any resource), it is a sensible reason to concentrate your conservation efforts elsewhere, where your efforts have a bigger impact -- and to use as much of your plentiful resource as you need, but no more. To paraphrase the slogan Elmer referenced in the food thread: Take what you want (of the plentiful asset), but use what you take. Don't throw it away just because there's lots of it.

I don't agree on wasting water either, but as in my original point, what is the use of saving water with a HE washer when it doesn't clean as well.

"what is the use of saving water with a HE washer when it doesn't clean as well."

I think if it's not cleaning as well, it's not being used properly......as a class and type of unit, they clean better than top loaders. Of course, like any appliance, some brands do a better job than others, but that's the specific of the brand or model, not the whole class of machine.

Are you seriously suggesting that every person in Europe using an A rated washer is wandering about in dirty clothes?

Regarding the plentiful water notion. Aquifers have been filled over millennia. At some point, however much rain falls in an area, it will not be sufficient to replenish the ever increasing rates of extraction.

I note that whistle B's post touched on detergents and 'softeners'. Like her, I use powdered detergents in my clothes washer and dishwasher. This is mostly because a) The results are good, and b) I don't see the point of buying and lugging watered down detergent home from the store. I seem to recall that liquid detergents -- and 'softeners' -- can foul washers, promoting mold.

I've read that most people use excessive amounts of detergent, resulting in dingy looking laundry. You can test your use by running a load of clothes through a cycle without any soap to see if they make suds. I also fill my washer's 'softener' compartment with a little white vinegar, to 'kill' any soap residue.

I think this may have been posted in the KT: A documentary on British 'wash houses' of yesteryear. I noted that the washers were front-loaders, and that an attendant (not the housewife) was in charge of adding the detergent and starting the machines.

"I put some towels in there as well. to help with the cleaning. Hmmmph, it was folded over, and didn't change from that position. And the towels were underneath it."

I haven't read all of this entire thread, but this comment really sounds like that particular machine was not functioning properly, possibly due to being over loaded. Have you used these same machines for the same sized load in the past, Jasdip?

Rusty

My mother and I had GE refrigerators for 35 years. Harvest gold and mine was avocado."

Lily, my mom had the avocado. I did buy some Kenmore appliances in the almond color and thought they looked so nice. By the time I got rid of them they just looked dirty/dingy to me.

"I seem to recall that liquid detergents -- and 'softeners' -- can foul washers, promoting mold."

My previous set of stacked W/D specifically said to dilute liquid detergent before adding it to the machine; when I go this LG set, I looked but didn't see that in the instructions. It's true that liquid detergent (and I assume fabric softeners) can clog up the piping - I think the problem is reducing water flow more than mold. I don't know why the Gorenje set (the one I left behind in my old place) mentioned it and my LG set (that I bought in my new place) doesn't. The Gorenje set was a 24" - maybe that made a difference? I tried to buy it again, but had to get a humongous LG set because the Gorenje set had an undetermined delivery date. I love the cleaning, but the drums are deeper (backwards) than I would like. Ah well......first world problems.

OMG...the old front vs top loading...I've only used top loader washers with an agitator. Front load appeal to ME, would be having the top of it for folding and they do look kinda cool ;-) My issue would be depth and which way the door opens. My dryer is on the left, washer on the right. My laundry area is right off the my kitchen and even with the set have now, they still stick out past a wall that seperates the fridge and dryer...so you can see them some.

I go back and forth on what I should get when this set dies. I've looked off and on over the years...My dryer wasn't drying recently, but it ended up just needing the vent cleaned and that took care of it. So I'll limp these along as long as I can. I do like being able to add clothes to a load, but wouldn't be a total deal breaker and I would like a just rinse only cycle.

Hey, just to add a wrinkle - you can get a top loading machine that is actually a front loader with respect to the way it works.....the drum is still horizontal, but it opens on the side of the drum, which is the top of the machine:

T Vet's comment is accurate. As shown in the photo posted, the company' that makes this one of a kind design is named Staber. On its website, it crows about having over 40 employees. It makes a list of several different products, including a home drying cabinet. Like a fridge but maybe a bit bigger, into which you put wet clothes to dry. Another unique design copied by no one.

This is one where the manufacturer's doors may close before a purchase is delivered to your door.

"This is one where the manufacturer's doors may close before a purchase is delivered to your door."

Except that residential appliances are really not their thing - their main business is industrial, and being around for 40 years is pretty good for a family business. I think they they took their industrial products (like drying cabinets) and modified them a bit for residential use.

Having 40 employees is not indicative of a healthy business. Troubled operations typically pare back and focus on most profitable products. At this size, there isn't too much to cut back on

I am a destroyer of top loader, agitator machines. A front loader has been a blessing to me. For twenty years, I was known for my ability to overload and screw up a top loader. Apparently front loaders are very good for people, like me, who love to keep stuffing laundry into a machine until it can't possibly take any more.

I may be lucky in that I apparently got a very good front loader. It washes loads quickly and the laundry comes out very clean. The door can be left open where the machine sits and its rarely had smell issues. It is VERY heavy and expensive to fix though :(

I live in a rural area and have a well with a limited supply of water. 22 years ago we got a front load Maytag washer. I really liked it. About 10 years ago my husband, who was very handy, put new bearings in the tub. About 6 months ago it again started sounding like a jet engine when it was spinning. My husband has passed away so I bought a Maytag front loader. I really like it. It is larger inside, uses less water than the Neptune and gets the clothing cleaner. Yes, the cycles can be long but I don't care. It isn't hands on time and I usually wash 1 or 2 loads each day.

"Having 40 employees is not indicative of a healthy business."

It depends on how many employees you need to get the job done......What an odd thing to determine how healthy a business is. I know healthy businesses who have fewer than 20 employees! My boss has a healthy business with fewer than 10. I think if you're a small business who's made it through the 2008 recession and survived the first rounds of Covid problems in 2020 to continue to produce your product (or service), it's a good sign.

I would never own a front-load washer. Top-load only for me. No agitator in my current machine, and clothes come out clean.

Chessie -- It would be helpful to know why you 'would never own a front-load washer'.

Give it up, T Vet. A manufacturing company with 40 employees making a variety of consumer and commercial appliances is not a thriving business. Your boss has a thriving business with fewer than 10? Is it a vet practice or other service business, or does he build airplanes?. Save your breath, you're either being argumentative or this is something you really don't understand.

"It would be helpful to know why you 'would never own a front-load washer'."

Because everyone I know that has one, that has mentioned it, says they will never get another one. My top loader is very quiet, and I can reach in and get everything out no problem. No desire to deal with the mildew issue either. This is my preference. It may not be yours.

Pros and cons, here, and for me, the cons outweigh the pros.

https://blog.bellinghamelectric.com/blog/advantages-and-disadvantages-of-a-front-load-washer

"Save your breath, you're either being argumentative or this is something you really don't understand."

I do really understand, and have a variety of work experience over the last 40 years. The number of employees is a stupid way to determine if a business is healthy. Perhaps the change in number of employees might matter......but that's something different all together.

"Save your breath, you're either being argumentative or this is something you really don't understand."

Oh, the irony, lol!

The laundromat uses small front-load washers. They're double or triple loads, but they're not the humongous washers of today. e.g. LG models today. That's where my problem lay. The last time I used the washers I washed my queen sized quilt. When I pulled it out of the washer there were large sections that were still dry. I washed a queen bed pillow and 3 towels and they really did diddly-squat for washing.

Maybe I can find a friend who will let me use their fl washer and I'll pay them.

Jas, if you lived closer, I’d let you use my washer and dry any time, and you would have to pay. :c)

Oh, the irony, lol!

LMAO! Touche’

The laundromat near me has a couple hugh front loaders. I bought a new comforter for my sons bed about 6 months ago and it wouldn't fit in my old washer so I took it to the laundromat. It was pricey, $9 to use the machine. Happily the comforter fits in my new washer.

My two king comforters for winter I have to take to the laundromat. They are big and fluffy. They fit in my TL HD, but all they do is float ontop. Same with pillows. The extra large machine at the laundromat does a good job, even on my white comforter. It is a little pricey, but I only have to do it once a year.

My top load machine does a great job on my comforters. and pillows too.

Chessie - mine too, I also buy machines with large capacity and never have an issue with anything being too large.

Chessie -- Thanks for the reply. I gather that you like what you've always had; nothing wrong with liking what you have! I'd wondered if there were reasons you'd disliked using a front load, but I guess you haven't had a reason to try one.

I liked the top load Maytag I used for 30 years, and I've this front-load for 20. I had a carpenter build a platform for it and my dryer when we built this house. I think the 'pedestal' thing with a drawer (on the floor?) is ridiculous. My smaller washer is 'right size' for this two-adult household. Anything 'too big' goes to the commercial laundry.

"'d wondered if there were reasons you'd disliked using a front load, but I guess you haven't had a reason to try one."

I stated in my first post that "I would never own a front load washer". And clearly, I have not purchased one because I do not want one, based on personal accounts from friends, and my own research. You are correct. I have absolutely no reason, no desire and no need, to try one myself.

A washer on a pedestal would not be possible in my laundry room and frankly, I would not want it on a pedestal. Too much work when painting and cleaning, and if repairs are needed. Just not something that would work for me.

I love my front loader. It is a Miele. Clothes come out just as clean as top loaders I have had. It uses less water, so environmentally sound. I have had no problems at all with it, ever, and we do a lot of laundry with a dog who sheds like mad requiring sheets on furniture and towels used to rub him dry when he comes in muddy and wet. My gardening clothes which are usually really dirty come out pristine. Really, not one complaint.

I rarely post over here, but I do enjoy reading some of the well thought out arguments that often arise, and yet….I occsionally just must shake my head in wonderment. I mean, can I say pissant?