@mark_roeder 4B NE Iowa This is my first season with a band-sized rose, so it's basically brand new. The weather is just as it has been all summer, maybe a few degrees less: 90's in the day, 50's at night, the same water regimen as it has had all season. I will look for mites tomorrow.

Certainly mite be a rose virus.

Because pattern in first photo evokes scintillating scotomata.

Mischievous, If you exclude spider mite damage it probably is RMV. As rifis says, the patterning is suspicious for rose mosaic virus, rather than mites. Your damage is so limited; it is difficult to make a clear determination, without testing. If you really like the rose I wouldn't shovel prune yet. You are right that RMV is mainly found in grafted roses.

You will see my post a few hours ago about my RMV. I am rooting a baby rose from a parent with RMV. I believe I will get a baby with RMV. However, I saw an article about heat treatments for 28-35 days. This was rooted in the midst of high temps, outdoors in full sun. And much of that time I also had a cover on it, so I am surprised it is actually alive.

I am hoping my baby won't have RMV, but it is a systemic disease. I can always hope. What you have is so ambiguous I'd give it a chance. RMV does not generally spread.

Magpie, it's RMV. I've had several roses with RMV over the years (17 years ago was the first), and all but one were Austin Roses and one is a Meilland, all grafted. I've always regarded it as a cosmetic problem, and the roses with RMV are quite large and vigorous. RMV showed up immediately on these roses--there was no waiting time. RMV typical leaf patterns sometimes disappeared for a while, but have always come back. I don't worry about it at all. I've got better things to do. Diane

So, interesting, I send some photos to the nursery that I bought the band from, and was told that it looked to be the beginnings of a fungal disease, not rose mosaic. 🤷‍♀️

Have them name the fungal disease.

Genus, species. Or common name.

This should be fun.

She said possibly the beginnings of blackspot. Having fun yet?

I started chuckling as I read this. Was this the Walmart nursery (sorry)? I remember having to identify a plant for them they thought they didn't stock. Oh, well. Diane

@Diane Brakefield No, a reputable nursery discussed on this forum a lot.

Maybe you talked to a part time summer worker. Of course, if they say it's blackspot, then it's not their fault, but if it's RMV then they are selling infected plants, which is another thing altogether. Diane

@Diane Brakefield No, I know who I spoke with. I truly don't know what it is but since I don't have a definitive answer, I'm not 100% sure what to make of it. Either way based on what I've read here and hear from there, I'm not inclined to remove the plant yet.

Oh, don't remove it. I guarantee it's RMV. I have one rose with this that's 17 years old, among a couple of others. I don't care who the person you spoke to was, they were full of hot air to suggest blackspot, and any confidence you might have in their opinion should have flown out the window. Diane

@Diane Brakefield That's a very disappointing prospect 😕

In a cool climate like zone 5, I would be concerned with virus spread

Why is that, @Henry Kuska ?

Because the rose immune system against some of the more common rose viruses is temperature dependent. In warm climates the virus is mainly in the below ground parts of the plant in the summer.

Plants, annimals, and insects all have siRNA-mediated RNA silencing immune systems against virus infections. This type of immune system is temperature dependent. At high temperatures it is very good, but at low temperatures it is not very effective. I have summarized what is known concerning common mosaic type rose virus infections in the link below.

https://sites.google.com/site/temperatureandrosemosaicvirus/home

What mode of transmission would effect

spread of this virus ( to other roses) in MM’s garden, Henry?

Magpie, let it live.

I had a rose that appeared virused last year. We pulled it pretty fast. A band is cheap and I didn't want to risk the health of my rose bed.

Here is the thread on it.

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5947635/looks-like-my-jackson-and-perkins-rose-from-witherspoon-is-virused#n=25

I'll start singing Les Miserables if you don't let it live, Magpie.

@Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR I'm letting it stay. I don't know what that might sound like, as I've only read the book, but I'm letting it live 😅

I have not seen it spread Magpie. I would listen to the original London cast, Magpie. Google, "Let him Live." The song is really "Bring him home."

rifis asked: "What mode of transmission would effect

spread of this virus ( to other roses) in MM’s garden, Henry?"

H. Kuska reply. To accurately answer that question one would have to know which actual virus (or viruses) are present in that rose. From the link that I gave, one can reach my descriptions of what is known and/or suspected about the spread of the individual viruses (unfortunately, some of the descriptions need updating).

Because of the complication caused by the possible temperature dependence of the roses immune system, the experience of an individual rosarian in a warmer climate probably is not going to be applicable to MM's garden (plus, he or she may not even have an infection with the same virus or group of viruses and even the same strain (s) of virus (s)) . The advice of Stan V. Griep, American Rose Society Consulting Master Rosarian, Rocky Mountain District is given in the following link:

https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/ornamental/flowers/roses/rose-mosaic-virus.htm

Alan Windham, Professor and Extension Specialist Mark Windham, Distinguished Professor Department of Entomology and Plant Pathology, University of Tenn. published the following specific comment about ArMV and PNRSV.

"However, there is limited information regarding the movement of ArMV by nematodes and PNRSV via pollen. To exclude rose mosaic from your garden, inspect plants for symptoms before purchase; don’t bring a symptomatic plant home."

https://extension.tennessee.edu/publications/Documents/W833.pdf

@Henry Kuska In the first link of your most recent comment, the article starts out as saying that the virus "wreaks havoc" on the rose leaves, but then goes on to say that it makes a jagged pattern on the leaves and rarely affects the flowers. Nothing else. If that's the extent of it, I don't see the urgency to remove it tbh. Based on what my leaves look like, wreaking havok is quite a stretch.

I'm surprised that people are so attached to a rose that hasn't even established itself yet. I know from reading this forum many shovel prune for something way less than a virus. Don't like the color, the growth, the flower, the size, or just want to try something new and it gets shovel pruned.

I know we have given up on or taken out roses for a variety of reasons. Fries in sun (Chuckles), lacks bloom in shade (Chuckles), getting too big for it's spot (Golden Wings), didn't thrive due to abuse (Oranges N Lemons, Playboy) but were probably weak anyways, didn't thrive (2 Sally Holmes, Pinata) attracts too many Japanese Beetles (Golden Wings), bloomed once per year (Dr. Huey climber), entangled the dog with a gangly growth habit (Gourmet Popcorn), virus (Hypnotized) etc. These are all roses we no longer have.

A rose takes years to establish. I wouldn't pour my time and effort into one that has less than a good chance to thrive and was introducing who knows what into the garden.

Magpie, I would like to know where you got it. Almost all of my roses come from High Country Roses and I know you bought some bands there recently so if you got what appears to be a virused rose I would like to know what rose it is and where it came from.

From my own post I know alot of people don't care about viruses but I would like to avoid them.

Edit: I see we were posting at the same time and you decided against removal. Sorry if I seem to be advocating above. I just wanted to provide a counter perspective to those who were advocating to keep it.

@mmmm12COzone5 But why assume it has less than a good chance to thrive? It has had good growth all year, why does a cosmetic issue (that I do not even find unattractive) mean that the rose won't thrive? In other threads people have commented on their roses with RMV that have thrived for decades. If that's even what this is.

It's Sally Holmes from HCR, who claims that this is in fact not RMV. 🤷‍♀️ Any time you bring any new plant from a nursery, you risk introducing who knows what, via plant or potting soil. This patterning on the leaves so far is a non-issue for me and the plants is still growing well. I don't see why I should boot it from my garden yet. Right now I'm weighing whether to trust Matt and his consultant, who view me as a paying customer, or trust the opinions of people on here, who are not professionals. Right now I'm all kinds of confused about that and what is up with the rose, but I certainly wouldn't claim that it hasn't thrived this year.

Good info. Magpie.

I guess I view it as fairly hard to get a rose to thrive in our climate even if it is healthy. That is why I spend so much time documenting how mine are doing.

In terms of Sally Holmes that is very interesting. I originally bought 3 Sally Holmes from High Country Roses in 2017. The first year I believe I was thrilled with them.

One died after the first year's winter. Matt replaced it for free.

Eventually another of them died (either one of the originals or the replacement).

One was taken out earlier this year as it never really thrived.

We currently have one original and the damn thing dies back to the ground every year. The first year it grew and flowered really well. I was in love with it. Now I'm considering it as being on the chopping block. I've discussed replacing it with something else (like that Golden Opportunity climber that Joey liked on another thread) but my husband likes it and wants to keep it.

I'm just tired of the dying back to the ground every year and dealing with the JB eaten flowers all summer as well as the unattractive looking octopus canes.

This is a recent photo:

Matt raved about Sally Homes in our climate which is why I bought it among my first batch of roses. I just took his recommendations that first year as I had no idea what I was doing. I still seriously consider his recommendations but I use alot of what I learn on this forum also from other posters to make selections.

I can't judge it beyond how it's done this year of course, as it hasn't met a winter here yet. For now I do plan to leave it and we will see how it does next year. I do plan to do the update pre-pruning, as we talked about, for all my roses next spring.

Good idea. You might also want to post a full bush photo on this thread.

I find it useful to use this forum as a snapshot in time documentation source where I can go back and read my thoughts about the state of the plant when I'm trying to sort out how things have done and my thoughts about them.

mmmm, people take a variety of approaches to their gardens. I would not expect otherwise. I love some plants you might cull and we can all live and let live.

Sheila,

I totally agree. I was just providing a counter point because so many people were strongly advocating to keep it.

I just wish I knew she wanted a Sally Holmes because we dug a 3 or 4 yr old one out this spring and gave it away. Hopefully it is doing well somewhere. It may be that our garden isn't well suited for Sally Holmes. Or that I need to follow the example of Tammy and wrap it in burlap every year (never happening here :-).

The flowers on Sally Holmes are spectacular! My husband wants to keep ours and I lean toward replacing it. He says he likes the flowers.

He is also the one who would have to dig it out so he gets the final say. We are both learning about how well some roses do for us and that changes our opinions of the ones we have as we find more and more spectacular ones.

I'm committed to no more new holes. In fact I'm thinking that as the roses in the wood mulch die or are moved, we will not replace with roses. My husband wants to open up more new holes in the rocks to allow for some new roses. I think that as ours fill in and mature, and/or we replace the die back every year ones with those that don't we will have a very full bed so don't need any new holes.

The following was stated by Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b) earlier in this thread:

"@Henry Kuska In the first link of your most recent comment, the article starts out as saying that the virus "wreaks havoc" on the rose leaves, but then goes on to say that it makes a jagged pattern on the leaves and rarely affects the flowers. Nothing else. If that's the extent of it, I don't see the urgency to remove it tbh. Based on what my leaves look like, wreaking havok is quite a stretch."

H. Kuska comment: I question your statement "nothing else" The author tried to explain why he felt there could be an urgency:

"I have not had this virus show up in my rose beds to this point. However, if I did, I would recommend destroying the infected rose bush rather than take a chance upon it spreading throughout the rose beds. My reasoning is that there is some discussion about the virus being spread through the pollen, thus having infected rose bushes in my rose beds increases the risk of further infection to an unacceptable level."

His final summary statement for the article is:

"Unfortunately, if your plants have the rose mosaic virus, you should destroy and discard the rose plant. Rose mosaic is, by its nature, a virus that is just too tough to conquer currently."

@Henry Kuska Right, they say it MAY spread, but I still question the seriousness of the virus when the only symptom on my rose is patterned leaves. Not brown, crunchy, falling off, just variegated, and only in the last month of the growing season , at that.

mmmm, thank you for that. I saw spectacular Sally Holmes in Northern California and almost thought it was too pretty for my rugged yard but I also now finally got one from High Country Roses I can plant this Fall. It is all an experiment in our individual ecosystems.

Sheila,

I also saw some spectacular pictures of Sally Holmes, probably from Northern California. I couldn't believe it was a rose. It looks so tropical! The beauty of it when it does well is amazing.

I took a slightly more flattering photo of mine just now. Overall the bush form doesn't look that great in the garden. It is too gangly.

My husband thinks maybe we should put a fence around it to sort of prop it up to be more upright. It only has flowers now because the Japanese Beetle pressure is lessening and my husband goes out and gets them off a couple of times a day.

I love how a spray looks when we cut it for the house. If it was cane hardy I would probably invest in an obelisk for it.

That is the baby growth, mmmm. It will grow more upright if given time. A low support would not hurt now but eventually it will get much taller and stronger. The California versions were huge and tall. When I get really tall canes here I will try to support them. We have a fair amount of wind here. I think yours looks wonderful for it's age.

Sheila,

Unfortunately mine dies back to the ground every year so this is as big as it seems to get. It is 5 years old.

Compared to the others that went in the same year at the same time, and have done well, it is a bit of a disappointment.

Robusta - Filled in it's area nicely (this is my biggest rose) and needs no trimming to maintain it's shape. It is almost 7 ft tall and looks to be wider than that.

Pretty Lady Rose - fits it's intended space nicely and compliments the landscape. Has this shape without any trimming from us. More of an upright form. Pretty Lady Rose is up to my shoulder.

Iceberg (on right) - A little shorter than I thought it would be but is a nice rounded mount on it's own and it blooms alot. No trimming required. Would be nice if it makes it's advertised height but even if it doesn't it is a keeper.

All of the above were planted 2017.

In 2018 my best one was Amiga Mia (left pink rose in above picture). It was not a band so I don't know the age.

In 2019 my big winner was Winnipeg Parks. Pink bush in center of photo. It was a band. I have no idea how big it will get. It has excellent growth and a rounded form. Very dense greenery. No trimming required. Constantly in bloom.

2020 roses are too early to call. I seem to get a winner maybe 1 out of 5 roses? All pictures are from today.

Mmmm, I suppose then it is your z 5. Putting a collar support around it might make the shape look better. Mine is new this Spring so I'll see what it does here. We are getting more like California weather by the day here.

Sheila,

I would think in zone 8 you are going to have a beautiful rose!

My RMV Spectra is in a small bed with no RMV spread to other plants in 19-years. Spread is not a serious worry with RMV. Consider keeping it if it is a treasured rose. I am considering shoveling mine but I rooted a healthy looking branch in hot weather to see if I could get an unvirused progeny. So, we shall see. I think success is unlikely, but Henry Kuska, who I believe has been around the block more times than me (but probably not too many more times - I am not ancient, but am advancing), is encouraging my effort, so I will continue my effort.

Mark, according to your picture, it appears that your rose is infected with ApMV (of course only an actual virus test can tell for sure which virus or viruses your plant has).

PNRSV is the virus that is now being suspected as being pollen transmitted.

""However, there is limited information regarding the movement of ArMV by nematodes and PNRSV via pollen. To exclude rose mosaic from your garden, inspect plants for symptoms before purchase; don’t bring a symptomatic plant home." -see my earlier Tenn. link.

I suggest that the reader utilize the precautionary principle when considering whether to keep virused roses.

It is common for rosarians to take roses into the house for table decorations. If the rose contains virus infected pollen is there any possible dangers to humans?

When the human immune system senses a virus it normally reacts to fight the virus. Why can this cause a problem?

Please read:

https://rosebreeders.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=55845&p=67312&hilit=finger#p67312

Oh boy. I mean if we're going to be alarmist about plant viruses potentially being dangerous to humans simply by being in their vicinity, and a huge amount of grafted roses (not to mention other plants) have viruses, we should not even grow them, smell them, go outdoors when there may be pollen about from nearby gardens.

We may have to move to the Moon, or Mars, Magpie. On second thought I'm staying.

@Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR Oh, that gave me a good chuckle.

The response of the human immune system to plant viruses is part of Nature's behavior. Scientists accept Nature"s behavior and try to utilize it in positive ways. In this case, scientists are utilizing the fact that the human immune system produces a response to plant viruses to fight cancer.

"Cowpea mosaic virus (CPMV) is particularly immunostimulatory and effective for in situ vaccination to treat cancer."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0142961221002702

@Henry Kuska thank you for making information available so that people can consider multiple sides of an issue before deciding where they stand. Your experience and efforts are appreciated.

Thanks Henry, that was a super interesting article!

This appeared today. It may be easier to read (concerning how the human immune system reacts to the presence of a plant virus).

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-09-virus-lungs-metastatic-cancer.html?utm_source=nwletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily-nwletter

Also:

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-06-cowpea-mosaic-virus-immune-cancer.html