Several vegetarians I know, not all, dislike the smell of meat. It takes little additional effort and no cost to put non - meat things on a different plate and put them at a distance away.

It's the same idea for me as serving a meal for all without items a few dislike. That's a good practice that offends no one and singles out no one.

I think meat eaters can manage one delicious meal with NO meat.

Order pizza delivery,, a couple of large deluxe loaded meat lovers and one veggie lover..*

*pay no attention to me, I'm just slap happy today for absolutely no reason at all ;-)

"I think meat eaters can manage one delicious meal with NO meat."

Of course.

I agree, Olychick. I'm a meat eater and am beyond fine if it's not included.

Suzieque, Lynda included this website in her post. I came across it awhile ago when someone shared it here. Just thought you might like to look at her Vegetarian section...or save it for future use.

https://www.themediterraneandish.com/category/vegetarian/

This warm wild rice salad with roast veggies is my upscale go to for vegetarian guests. Also, we eat it quite often in the fall and winter on weekends (we have a vegan and a vegetarian in the family). It is hearty enough for a main, but we usually serve it as a side.

https://www.mynewroots.org/site/2010/02/warm-salad-month-wild-rice-butter-bean-and-garlic-roasted-carrot-salad-2/

Donna_loomis, thank you for posting that link for butternut squash soup - I can't wait to try it soon, hopefully next weekend!

How about a nice vegetable lasagna with a salad and bread? Served with wine is a nice touch. Meat balls on the side. Also worked for us.

We (meat eaters) often eat risotto as a main dish - I have a great recipe for wild mushroom risotto and one for sundried tomato - and then we’ll make a pan of roasted veggies or a ratatouille as a side dish.

Oh my goodness! you have all really come through for me! i have just arrived hime (11:30 PM) from enjoying Labor Day with friends I will look at these more closely tomorrow but just want to extend my sincere thanks for the time you took from your day to help me out.

You might want to look at making a frittata as the main course or main side course.

Suzieque, let us know what you decide to do!

No help here, just a comment about how I’d handle it. I’d make a side or second dish that could be substantial enough to stand on its own for the vegetarians. I’d not refrain from serving meat any more than I’d not serve alcohol because some people (including me) don’t drink.

I agree FOAS...just as if a guest didn't like, say, squash, s/he could just skip it and eat the rest of the food.

I think its nice to plan a delicious meal without meat.. I don‘t understand why people insist there has to be meat at every meal. Some vegetarians might appreciate the absence of cooked flesh at the table. I know not all vegetarians choose to be so simply because they have moral objections to killing animals for food, but I dont know anyone who has moral objections to eating squash (although they probably exist). lol.

I enjoy having a meatless meal from time to time - we do it at home and probably as where you are, no end of restaurants in our area where vegetarian dishes are available. Meat is not an essential or mandatory component to a meal for us nor for many people.

I will speak up to address your last comment - I have a moral objection to eating squash of any kind, in any form. To call it "food" is deceptive and misleading, a hoax perpetrated by squash farmers. Just Say No. I do. I eat almost everything and anything but it's clear to me that no type of squash is fit for consumption.

We have a number of friends who don't eat meat or fish and while we enjoy the delicious food they prepare when they have us over for dinner, it always seems like their meals are far too carb-heavy. Too much rice/bread/potatoes and the like that we eat sparingly at home. And not nearly enough beans or other cooked vegetables that can be so good.

One Thanksgiving at a friend's house, each person was served a half piece of a large roundish squash baked and stuffed with brown rice (I ate the rice, left the squash it was in), bread stuffing, sweet potatoes and mashed potatoes, home baked bread and a small green salad. Pumpkin pie for dessert (squash, I said "I'm too full for dessert")

It was mostly delicious but I wanted to stop at an ER to get an insulin injection on the way home.

Just because you can't hear it scream when you kill it, doesn't mean it's not suffering. Some scientists have posited that the fragrance you get when you mow the lawn *is* a plant's way of screaming....that they think they may communicate with each other through chemical releases.

https://www.the-scientist.com/features/plant-talk-38209#:~:text=Scientists%20have%20revealed%20that%20plants,networks%20formed%20by%20soil%20fungi.

I am vegetarian and try not to make a big deal of it whether im the host or the guest. the caponata suggestion is a good one. id cook any sort of fairly simple chicken, maybe even roasting a whole one, ratatouille, a starch such as polenta, rice, potatoes or another grain, and some sort of salad. everyone can choose foods they are comfortable with.

Suzieque, I think it’s really nice of you to think of your vegetarian friends. My husband is one, I am not. So if he is around, it’s all vegetarian. The only thing he dislikes is the stuff that is vegetarian, but is supposed to taste like chicken or meat. He would even pick out the “fake” little bacon pieces out of a meal.

Iris, here's an experience different from your husband's. Back in those dark days when I was still working before I retired, there was a Chinese restaurant we often walked to for lunch that featured a good selection of meatless dishes made with a soy based ingredient that was textured. I can remember dishes like Hunan beef, Szechuan chicken, kung pao chicken, with the meat names in quotes, that were all delicious. I ordered them often to enjoy the novelty.

Funny how people are always trying to make vegetable taste meaty, but not vice versa.

food, I don't agree.

There is the taste sensation of "umami", which to some is related to a meatiness. Not of a meat source but of a related flavor element. Umami sense is enhanced (maybe caused) by the presence of glutamates. The umami meatiness is as pleasing in savory vegetarian dishes as in ones containing meat.

It's why a grilled or otherwise prepared portabella mushroom has a "meaty" taste note. Vegetable sources of umami include sauteed mushrooms, sauteed tomatoes (esp sauteed tomato paste), soy sauce, and seaweed, among others. For those who are okay with fish but not mammalian protein sources, there's also anchovies, Worchestershire sauce (yes, it has anchovies in it) , and SE Asian Fish Sauce. It's not unusual for recipes from experimental, scientific sources (like Cooks Illustrated or Kenji Lopez-Alt) to include small amounts of ingredients in meat dishes that they call an "umami bomb", to supercharge the meatiness of the dish. Typical ingredients of suggested umami bombs are among the preceding mentioned items. I think Kenji's beef stew recipe includes a small amount of anchovies in the prescribed umami bomb, and I can tell you it's much better with it than without it.

None of which is doing anything like taking meat to try to appear or taste like a vegetable, which is my point. No one slices long strips of tenderloin and tries to make someone believe it tastes just like asparagus, for instance. No meat-based ”Beyond Vegetable” to turn into ersatz ratatouille.

There’s a reason why people struggle to come up with satisfying vegetarian meals. Why Meatless Monday seems to be a challenge and not five nights a week for the most of us. Why virtually every fast food restaurant is grounded on either beef or chicken. Why this thread was started and why there are so many similar threads, if not on KT then on CF.

Yes, most restaurants will offer vegetarian dishes but by and large what percentage?

ETA - Also, while I have no evidence to support this other than my own observations, people tend to be far more picky about vegetables than meats. Parents struggle with getting their kids to eat vegetables, not meats. So while coming up with something to please the minority at the dinner party is a nice gesture, it may be at the expense of pleasing the majority. Which is why I personally would make the substantial vegetarian side as I suggested above. Unless I just wanted to make it a pizza party.

Your comment seems to be aimed at convincing yourself or others (with things you assume to be true) that choosing to not be a vegetarian is somehow a more rational decision than choosing to avoid animal flesh. Eating meat may be a more common choice than to not do so in the US, but there are many Americans and many places around the world where that isn't the case. And many places where people who eat meat, even if financially well off, eat substantially less of it than Americans do.

There are many, many places where people without personal or other reasons to do so eat very little mammalian flesh all the same and considerably more fish than Americans do. How does that fit into your construct? It's a lot easier to put together a meal without mammalian meat, than to put together one with fish and seafood that a broad group of Americans would eat. That wouldn't be a problem in much of the rest of the world.

I’m not trying to convince myself of anything, I’m just stating my observations of 50+ years living in America. Of course anyone raised in a culture or by parents who eat more of a plant-based diet will in turn tend to lean towards plants themselves, but while vegetarianism is growing in the US it’s still a small minority. I mentioned fast food, but look at our holidays, too. Turkeys and hams, beef and lamb roasts which are standard holiday meals. American BBQ, sure we throw veggies on the grill but largely the image it conjures up is meat.

Many of the cultures with vegetarian diets are very liberal with spices that may be controvertial to the average American.

I can roast a plain chicken and feel fairly confident just about any non-vegetarian will be happy with that as the main dish. What vegetable dish can you say the same for?

"I can roast a plain chicken and feel fairly confident just about any non-vegetarian will be happy with that as the main dish."

Is this important? One reason is because many Americans have very limited tastes, chicken happens to be one thing many eat. For many, hamburger is another. Fine food at its best.

I can prepare a delicious fish or seafood dish for people I know here on the West Coast, and perhaps you too on the East Coast, as well as for a general group in Western Europe and much of Asia and be sure most people will love it. The same dish would go untouched in much of the US. That doesn't mean anything either, does it?

The US is more unlike than like most of the world insofar as food practices are concerned. Our food traditions and practices don't impress many foreign visitors or those living outside our borders.

While the OP has stated that she intends to serve a vegetarian meal, I simply stated my opinion that it would be easier to be sure to satisfy everyone by having a meat component in addition to a vegetarian dish that could stand alone. Obviously others on this thread feel the same way. No need for us to go in circles, but I can’t help but notice that you’ve not presented one crowd-pleasing dish, but have spoken disparagingly of meals served to you by vegetarians. You scoffed at roast chicken but offered no equivalent vegetarian ”safe” dish when asked.

I feel no need to go in circles anymore, but would be interested if any others here would disagree with my generalizations re the typical American diet.

FOAS I agree with what you're saying in general. I certainly haven't heard of anyone trying to turn chicken into an asparagus spear. That's probably mostly due to cost and health considerations, animal products being more expensive and higher in fat and calories.

Much of US culture has grown from traditions of meat being expensive and thus reserved for royalty and the wealthy. Going back to the eastern european roots of my family, many of the meats they ate were "poor people" food...the scraps that the wealthy wouldn't eat...sausages made of who knows what, head cheese, pickled pigs feet, kidney stew, etc. So when the better cuts became affordable, people opted for them as a sign of plenty, especially for guests and holidays. Vegetables and grain-based products were typically more available and far less expensive. They were used to "stretch" the meat be it with stews, soups, or in the case of my Dad, it wasn't a meal if it didn't have potatoes. Or one of my favorites: szalonna. My great grandmother with 10 kids would feed the family with one slab of bacon, rye bread and the veggies she grew herself in her garden.

Here's an interesting article on the story of the Irish, Jews and corned beef: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/is-corned-beef-really-irish-2839144/ It specifically mentions how, in Ireland, the people who made the corned beef couldn't afford to eat it.

While I know people who've gone vegetarian who will, out of the blue, crave steak, and I know people who've gone vegetarian and then went back to including animal protein, I've never heard of anyone craving sprouts or kale. But I will suggest a potentially vegetarian dish (though not vegan) that probably has a wide appeal and even may be an object of craving: pizza. But it's a dish that I don't think people consider "fine dining" and may not be right for certain kinds of dinner parties.

And don't get me started on chocolate cravings, with which I am most familiar.

@Suzieque, did you decide on a menu item yet? Curious minds want to know.

As of this moment the dinner party is being rescheduled to November! schedules of some of the guests have changed. So this will give me a chance to try out several of those noted above!

I’m late to this discussion but you can get pretty creative using ”Tik Toc” pasta as your base recipe. https://www.washingtonpost.com/food/2021/02/11/baked-feta-pasta-recipe-tiktok/

I made a variation a couple of days ago using Pequillo peppers and half the tomatoes along with some Artichoke hearts that came out just great.

A propos to my comments about trying to make vegetables seem like meat, I was just looking at the meat section of the whole foods sales:

Beyond Burger

Beyond Ground Beef

Beyond Italian Sausage

Beyond Bratwurst

Mini Plant-Based Corn Dog

Bacon Tempeh Strips

Plant-Based Frankfurters

Vegan Hot Dogs

Plant-Based Buffalo Wings

Plant-Based Chicken Strips

Plant-Based Burgers

Plant-Based Sausage Patties

Plant-Baded Breakfast Sausage

I don’t know about you, but to me this sounds like they’re trying to fill a void, for people trying to stay away from meat.

I’m sure it doesn’t come as a surprise that the produce section only had actual produce!

Yes, and they are trying to raise artificial meat products in "test tubes", but I've not seen them trying to raise veggies in a test tube.

food, I'm not sure why you insist on starting with a biased conclusion and then work backwards to find what you think is support for it.

People I know who are longtime and happy as vegetarians may eat something like veggie burgers at something like a group BBQ to be social but little of the rest of what you've listed. I'd equate it to vaping instead of smoking, self-pleasuring instead of the real thing, and on and on - second choice poor substitutes for people who can't do without the real thing. People who are vegetarian are happy with their eating choices and don't spend time looking for ersatz pretend meat products with no meat ingredients. They don't eat meat and don't find anything lacking in their diets. You find that hard to believe.

One guy I know, my age, went to India in the Peace Corps as his alternative to Vietnam military service, lived with a family that ate no meat, and came back with that eating preference. He hasn't eaten meat in 50 years. I promise you, he has no time or interest in having plant based buffalo wings or breakfast sausage, any more than you would be interested in a can of Purina with real steak chunks.

“People I know who are longtime and happy as vegetarians…”

Starting the sentence like this suggests you’re misinterpreting my point. I would not expect the primary target for these products to be longtime vegetarians comfortable with their diets, but more for the growing number of people trying to transition to a more plant based diet. If there’s a market for these products, there’s surely a reason for it: people miss their meat. Same reason people have been trying for decades to come up with a vegetarian burger recipe ”that will even satisfy the carnivores in your group.”

While I would think most people who are reasonably diverse eaters should have no issue getting through an evening with a vegetarian meal, I can’t help but notice that you suggest asking the vegetarians what they’d like cooked and consider it a ”risk” not to ask that specifically, but at the same time seem resistant to the idea that the majority might actually prefer some meat with their meals. I’ve seen other threads where you tell us about the lengths you go to make sure your guests are pampered to their every preference, and therefore these comments strike me as odd coming from you.

Your comments contradict one another. Yes, i do like to be a good host and show my welcome by being mindful of my guests' preferences. Puzzlingly many people are picky eaters. That's their problem, not mine, but I like to offer guests foods they'll like. The risk comes from guessing wrong rather than simply asking.

I have a niece who is not a vegetarian but is a very picky eater, owing to having a mother from the Midwest who ate no fish, few green veggies, and thought variety for dinner was not having the same kind of kind of meat and not the same kind of potatoes two days in a row. Won't eat anything with a bone, poultry needs to be skinless too. Won't eat steak or chops with fat on the edges or in the middle. Of course won't eat ribs, those have both. Her eating habits are very narrow and boring (by her own admission). It's her issue, not mine, but I accomodate what she likes when she comes. .

Have a good day. Your notions are fixed and you seem to think the world of those who don't eat meat is principally those who struggle to eliminate meat from their diets and need the ersatz substitutes. Much in the way an alcoholic struggles to stop drinking alcohol, or a druggie tries to stop.

That couldn't be further from the truth, and you've used what you thought was an ah-ha discovery at Whole Foods to bolster your false conclusions. People who want to, either change their diets or they don't. Longtime vegetarians (like my former Peace Corps member) and those from cultures where little or no meat is eaten are perfectly happy with their eating habits. What one eats or doesn't eat is a personal choice and their business.

Did you have a parent who smoked? Did they try to stop smoking by using bubble gum cigarettes that were common on candy racks when I was a kid?

Obvioisly you will stand incorrectly comvinced of what I’m trying to say, regardless of how many times I try to explain it. Enjoy the blissful ignorance of your misunderstanding.

I just made Three Sisters Chilli, it was delicious and it's vegetarian.

I think its very nice of you to be so accommodating. But the back and forth here serves as a reminder as to one reason why I do not do dinner parties anymore, either as a host or guest. I am not really a picky eater. But I do have definite dislikes,and I am at the point in my life where I will not choke something down to be polite,and I won't waste one single calorie trying something I don't like again to make someone else happy. Especially as they usually get a "nope. Don't like it YOUR way either." I do not eat fish or seafood. No kale, collard greens or asparagus. No lamb or venison. No duck. I hate Brussel sprouts and I do not care how you cook them. I don't like them. I hate tofu as well. As for a meatless meal, as long as its not full of those horrible concoctions trying to masquerade as meat, and as long as its substantial enough to be an actual meal, I think it can be delightful. I was once friends (or friendly with) a woman who was vegan and I have no clue what she ate. She hated most vegetables as well and found mushrooms repulsive. She was a sickly little thing but I never brought up her eating habits. I do not like when people comment on mine and I am of the "eat and let eat" mindset. But I am glad I decided to stop hosting people. And I do not think if I did decide to have a dinner party specifically i would invite meat eaters and vegetarians for the same meal. Too much worry about making everyone happy. And I am not the type of person who plunks something down and says "eat it or starve. This is what I made and I don't care if it satisfies you or not." My mother is like that. Why invite people to eat at all? So weird.

I would for sure go with pasta. Mushroom lasagne, pasta Primavera, a nice homemade alfredo, or a simple marinara. Served with bread and a salad. Or eggplant parmesan.

Why does every innocent post seem to turn into a fight or, at least, a debate? "Can't we all just get along"?

My sincere thanks, again, for all who took the time to post to help me out. I'm now on a very enjoyable tract to test out these recipes from my KT friends. I've got 2 montns. In the meantime, let's just not bicker, ok?

I’m still betting on the quiche being a hit with all.

Sorry Suzieque. Glad you got helpful suggestions to get you on your way. As for me, I’m fine disagreeing with people, but I have zero tolerance for being incorrectly told what I think, esp after I take the time to try to clarify. Sorry it happened on your thread. I trust you’ll come up with a delicious menu and your guests will be above this pettiness regardless. Enjoy!

Ditto

As someone who has been a vegetarian for 22 years, I always appreciate when someone makes a fully vegetarian meal. I get super excited to try everything as usually us vegetarians just have side dishes to choose from. Which of course I appreciate but it's extra special when I'm able to enjoy everything that is made!

That's why I host Thanksgiving. I got tired of years of eating just rolls and plain mashed potatoes because everything had meat or broth lol.

I'm curious, Chi, when you host Tksgiving, do you make turkey for non-vegetarians? Or do you only cook vegetarian? My GF is vegetarian but her family is meat eaters, so she'll cook meat dishes, but won't eat them.

My biggest challenge is when I make lunch for my 2 GFs, one of whom is vegetarian and the other is gluten free....seems all the vegetarian dishes I lean toward include wheat products, and all the gluten free seem to include animal products...and for me, I need to serve something that will feel like a complete meal, not just a bunch of sides.

Chi! I was so hoping that a vegetarian discussion would lure you here! I have missed seeing you.

Yes, I second that Amy. Chi, with two vegetarian DD’s I would love your Thanksgiving recipes.

Annie, for a time oldest was vegan and gluten free, a nightmare to cook for.

Hi amy, it's nice to see you too! I will try to post a little more. :)

Annie, basically I make all of the sides and my stepdad brings the turkey/ham. It works well because he cooks it at his house so I don't have to deal with all that plus it gives me a lot more space in the oven and fridge! I make all of the same traditional sides, just without meat and with vegetable broth. I make a vegetarian gravy and add turkey drippings sometimes for them but often they just take it as it is as it's really good.

Eld, I have many! I will gather them up and share in a little bit!

Great!